Kingdom of God: A Quest of Holy Revolution

While I understand and fully feel the desire to do something RIGHT NOW, I feel like as a tiny but well-organized sect our best move is to plan something really spectacular and devastating rather than vent our fury in several directions at once. Wrath of Barabas will give us the time and focus we need to plan that spectacular move.
 
While I understand and fully feel the desire to do something RIGHT NOW, I feel like as a tiny but well-organized sect our best move is to plan something really spectacular and devastating rather than vent our fury in several directions at once. Wrath of Barabas will give us the time and focus we need to plan that spectacular move.
I could see that if they hadn't just pissed off literally every major schismatic sect in the city. If we get Fervour to maximum, we'll be well-positioned to take advantage of the ensuing firestorm as it begins to spark, especially given how we can speak to the Jurors. We are a small, well-organized sect, yes - But we are also some of the most radical of the schismatics, and it is the faith in that radicalness that we must keep as high as we can.
 
[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Makabam, the Idol-Smashers of Old Nach [Gain a contact in the Political Iconoclast sect and its experienced streetfighters, who give your sect special advice in urban warfare].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

See now the depravity of the false kingdom writ large, bullets for children and not bread, fire for elders and not blankets, if it is baleful murder and cloaked butchery they wish to deliver upon gods faithful, then let us reward their violence with our own, they will see heaven truly through our angelforms the the guns of those they left to die.
 
[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Makabam, the Idol-Smashers of Old Nach [Gain a contact in the Political Iconoclast sect and its experienced streetfighters, who give your sect special advice in urban warfare].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

This is definitely the most aggressive option. Ally with extreme veterans and a sect skilled in urban warfare, focus on militant recruitment. Bulk up, gather our allies, so that when the storm clouds break we will have more people who are willing and able to fight.

Now, this most likely pays off if there's fighting in the near term, but if we're attacked again, or even if the city just explodes into street fighting, we'll have a fighting chance. The alternatives work in the longer term but given how things are developing I'm just not sure how long it will be until something gives.
 
I think we should consider the Ma'on sect a bit more closely. The HaKhofshim are located in a Pugilist neighborhood and are a Pugilist sect thus far. No matter how syncretic the sect becomes as it evolves (and it should) it still needs the sort of self-protection that comes from close ties to other Pugilists. The Jurors might pick on an isolated member of the HaKhofshim, but if the Pugilists are united they will only dare come into the neighborhood if they are prepared to kick off a broader civil war they are likely to lose.

Furthermore the Ma'on right now have lost some of their key leadership which will leave them more vulnerable than ever to influence from the HaKhofshim. The sect can help give them direction, as well as arms, and in doing so gain both a much stronger voice among the Pugilist sects as well as a large body of street-fighters. Having safehouses and escape routes would be useful, yes, but we already do have some coverage there just by virtue of the smuggling routes the HaKhofshim are participating in. And we need numbers to take a more offensive stance toward the Sword and Altar Jury, simply put.
 
[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].

[X] Ohr, the Militant-scholars of Wisdom's Heart [Gain a contact in the True Confessor sect and its network of city safehouses and secret tunnels, granting your sect escape and attack routes].

[X] Elder Abbess-Superior Tessel Tori, who brings with her echelons of the Order Marina within Nachivan and beyond, and connections across the most reformist and heterodox of the country's holy orders.
 
Hmm, looking at the situation a bit more closely.

Rage of Rehabam + Ma'on + Pale Horse Standard

That's basically an army right there and then. A Red Turban Rebellion. We would face Discipline issues down the line, but it would give us the fat and mass necessary to win with sheer brute force if it came down to it, and it probably will come down to it.
 
The Ma'on are definitely cool and would make good allies but their all-male hypermasculine branding sort of puts me off. Maybe we can influence them but I feel there would be some culture clash.
 
The Ma'on are definitely cool and would make good allies but their all-male hypermasculine branding sort of puts me off. Maybe we can influence them but I feel there would be some culture clash.
Ma'on is basically a sports club, but it doesnt actually have that strong of an ideological and political push beyond the basic tenets of Pugilisms. It was also basically just a moderate social club and its Sage still got murdered. So there is a lot of fertile ground we can cultivate.

I think that with how fast the situation is hitting the fan and how radical we are, we stand a good chance of dragging their beliefs towards our side through sheer Fervour. Which is the resource we use to bullrush through big fucking changes and endeavours like that, and would be at max with Rehabam.

Combined with the fact that half of the sect's core militant power is the Gunpowder Convent, and the fact that both Baba and Chana are on a warpath, I'm not too worried.
 
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Just to be clear on a few things:

1. Remember that in revolutionary situations revolutionary factions are not always or even usually the direct instigators of a given situation. Especially as Vasp is not very politically developed at the moment and even its organized factions are quite small, you need to think about the fact that there will be spontaneous and uncontrolled action, or action coming from the originators and Jury rather than from you first.

2. Ma'On's hypermale branding is an issue, but on the other hand they're not asking to join with you. They have their customs, you have yours: inter-sect respect is a basic premise of most radical cooperation. All sects have issues with you, they just don't voice them because it's impolite and counterproductive. The Iconoclasts would consider you to be overly disciplining and suspicious of the fact you haven't held elections and also you're idol-worshippers. The Confessors think you unsophisticated and vulgar in philosophy and also undisciplined and rowdy. The Amalists are cautious of your theology and think you far too simplistic, though they're the most open to cooperation on an ideological level which is funny because you keep taking the options which avoid them.

3. Remember that you're not acting alone in any event. There are many actors in the city either explicitly or nominally on your side, and against you. Think not just of what you will be doing but what others will be doing. Each faction has been doing something in the city since the beginning of the quest, but what, you're not as sure. Picking them will also help you find out more about them internally.

Ma'on is basically a sports club, but it doesnt actually have that strong of an ideological and political push beyond the basic tenets of Pugilisms. It was also basically just a moderate social club and its Sage still got murdered. So there is a lot of fertile ground we can cultivate.

To be clear, Ma'On is radical, it's just not very politically sophisticated. The Ghadim are the sports club. It wouldn't have been targeted if it was just a sports club. They're just streetfighters and toughs, a local radical men's society. This is a common and very normal thing that has cropped up historically - not every single club, society, or political organization is equally sophisticated.
 
[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Ma'on, the gunpowder-fists of the Western Navel [Gain a contact in the Militant Pugilist sect and its squads of street-toughs, granting strong bodies on the ground].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

There is no blame on those who enforce justice after being wronged.
 
[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Ma'on, the gunpowder-fists of the Western Navel [Gain a contact in the Militant Pugilist sect and its squads of street-toughs, granting strong bodies on the ground].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

The situation with the Sword and Altar Jury is likely to come to a head soon. And if the sect has a weakness in a street brawl it's a comparative lack of numbers. Meanwhile the mood in Nachivan is furious which means groups willing to throw in effort to build up militancy against the Jury will be out on the leading edge of opinion. It's a way to gain prominence and mass support all at once, stepping up to be heard in an unmistakable fashion. A more conspiratorialist approach focused on discipline would be good if the situation were less promising, if the sect had few opportunities for making allies and if the Jury were more entrenched in its position. But it's time to act with boldness to exploit the hatred of the population for the Sword Altar Jury.

With that in mind, the Ma'on are the most useful allies at the moment. We haven't paid enough attention to the HaKhofshim's standing among the broader Pugilist sects, and it is fundamentally a Pugilist sect located in the Pugilist "quarter." Taking advantage of the fury of Ma'on, and their temporarily leaderless state, to help unite the Pugilists sects in a broad anti-Jury coalition would provide militant fighters needed to face the Jurors on the streets. It would also secure the safety of the sect within its quarter of the city since any Juror movement on the HaKhofshim would be seen as a general assault on the Pugilists and so raise the costs for the Jurors escalating rather significantly. The safehouses and tunnels of the Ohr would be useful, though they simply don't bring bodies to the table and neither really do the Amalists. We can also count on the Iconoclasts to fight the Jurors even without a formal alliance. And being overly concerned with escape routes is a bit defeatist, though I'd note the involvement of the HaKhofshim with smuggling probably provides some basic ability to get a core of the Sect out of the city if need be.

Finally if gearing up for war we might as well go to the warriors for our key support. Veterans of the war against the Mare are most acquainted with modern warfare and the conditions of the outside world and thus the need for radical change. Being able to infiltrate some standing Radical banners with the Scourge of God would also be extremely helpful to the broader cause in the long run.
 
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[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Ma'on, the gunpowder-fists of the Western Navel [Gain a contact in the Militant Pugilist sect and its squads of street-toughs, granting strong bodies on the ground].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

We shall snatch rifles from the hands of the cruel and turn them upon the bodies of the wicked.
 
(yes, yes, vote for ma'on, friends! Cavalier's got a point! The other sects offer valuable bonuses, but Ma'on offers manpower! With all this uproar in the city, I don't think our tiny sect will have time to carry out some intricate guerrilla campaign. We're a small part of the backlash against Sword-Altar - Akov was an afterthought compared to the big names targeted. We need to ride the wave here. Ma'on might just be more bodies, but it's bodies where we desperately need them. This will help us protect our temple and carve out some real influence in the streets of the inner city. This is our chance to make the transition and become a truly dangerous mass movement.)

(Plus, the other three sects are gigantic fucking nerds and we have a sworn duty to unify with our fellow jocks to put them in lockers. Jock loyalty bolstered us once in the March of 70,000 fists. Let's do it again. Time to fuck 'em up!)

edit: (this is all ooc but also you can see that zeb has fully captured some of my speech functions. help.)
 
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Well lets think about the actors involved.

The Originating Juries, Metamoa, the Patriarch San, The Grand Synod, the Sword Altar, the Elders of the various non-core Juries, the Veterans of the Pale Horse, and the 4 other Schisms that were hit by the Sword Altar.

Which really comes down to this;

Originators: The Originating Juries and Circles, The Grand Synod and the Sword Altar.
They've lost a lot of legal and political power because the Grand Synod keeps fucking up. And they arent stupid. They know they need to act. As Qanam tells us, they are. The Originating Juries have gathered 15 000 men to crash Metamoa. But that's easily 15k Soldiers that the Sword Altar can call upon to pivot and help them put crush and obtain total control of the core of the Vasp State. Flooding out reformers and opponents in a grand purge along the way. And then once they have a fait-accompli, they'll make terms with the outskirts territories. Indeed, that is probably their plan.

The Sanhedron: San, the Elders, the loyal sub-circles and sub-juries.
They don't have an army on the field right now. They've got everything else. Political unity, the support of the people, the support of the Press, and the loyalty of most of the peripheries. But when the Sword Altar and the united might of the Originating Juries smash into them in a grand army they really don't have anything to actually fight back with. I mean Martyrdom, but they'd be fucking dead. Their problem is that their forces are scattered, with only small numbers of Jurors and Banners loyal to them in the Hadit Valley, and the standards at the outskirts. If San fucking dies, it's gonna be bad. They need an army, they need muscle.

The Pale Horse Veterans, the political connections of the Elders, the Schisms, Metamoa, are all also nominally allied with the Sanhedron. But we lack the unity to give that muscle just yet. If we can get some coordination going however, the Sanhedron will have breathing room and time.

So this entails us forming alliances that will either raise an Army in the city with the help of the Pale Horse Veterans, or reach out to other loyalists in the core region to coordinate through the Elders.

At the same time, the fate of our big tent faction is going to rely on Metamoa pining the 15k Originating Army down and diverting its supplies and reinforcements so that the Sword Altar cannot succeed in its purge thanks to lacking overwhelming force.


Ultimately though when it comes down to it. I can only see one path for the Sect. Get the Muscles and get ready for a face punching match. I cannot guess what the other major radical Schisms will be doing. But looking at the situation;

There is no point in picking Ohr. Escape Routes and secret tunnels dont help an army which is what the Sect needs to form the core of. And its press connection, while they are vital, they are probably smart enough to see the writing on the walls and use all their press connection to help the Sanhedron of their own volition. Allying with us wont help that, and will probably bring too much attention to them. I say leave them be so that they can travel in and out of the city, coordinating our Big Tent with their presses and manifestos.

Ma'on is as I said, an army in the making. Though the Makabam wouldnt be bad at that either. Its really dependent on the training and discipline levels, which we cannot judge at the moment. Wheter Unity of Pugilism is better, or the experience of the Makabam, I cant say necessarily.

Actually there is one thing @Cetashwayo if we pick the Hahahyiim would we be able to to convince them to direct all their smuggling efforts into arming the Sect and Metamoa? With their connections, that could be a lot of weapons.
 
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Revolutionaries generally tend to be macho edgelords so the Ma'on being what they are is perhaps imperfect but certainly not an impediment to being useful. The vacuum in leadership they're experiencing and the bonds of shared combat should make them a lot more amenable to influence from the HaKhofshim, though.
 
They don't have an army on the field right now. They've got everything else. Political unity, the support of the people, the support of the Press, and the loyalty of most of the peripheries. But when the Sword Altar and the united might of the Originating Juries smash into them in a grand army they really don't have anything to actually fight back with. I mean Martyrdom, but they'd be fucking dead. Their problem is that their forces are scattered, with only small numbers of Jurors and Banners loyal to them in the Hadit Valley, and the standards at the outskirts. If San fucking dies, it's gonna be bad. They need an army, they need muscle.

They also have White-Gold Standard, which is another standard of veterans by Elder Akabar Morsi, from Kedarkan. Morsi hasn't come up a lot except in Sanhedron mentions but he is capital P popular among the Sanhedral Jurors. Very dashing, charming guy, firebrand in the Sanhedron, big supporter of moderate Iconoclasm as exemplified by Yam Soph which wants freer commerce and the liberation of the soul from bondage (whatever that means). He has a big beef with the Kedarkan High Jury because it's been way too, he thinks, non-committal and limpwristed in fighting back to the Originators.

Actually there is one thing @Cetashwayo if we pick the Hahahyiim would we be able to to convince them to direct all their smuggling efforts into arming the Sect and Metamoa? With their connections, that could be a lot of weapons.

You would have a hard time actively convincing them. Hahahyiim is much larger and wealthier than you and while they can certainly consider sending some weapons out they are sending their guns, the Yeladada say, somewhere else. No one's sure where.
 
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You would have a hard time actively convincing them. Hahahyiim is much larger and wealthier than you and while they can certainly consider sending some weapons out they are sending their guns, the Yeladada say, somewhere else. No one's sure where.
Hmm. *Looks at the situation*

Lacking any other information, and judging by the movements of the Originators. I'm going to assume they are arming some other rebel group and-or pissed off Sanhedral Juries that will hopefully keep the Originators from amassing an overwhelming force before us. Its not going to necessarily be Metamoa, but the fact that they arent willing to say gives me confidence when it comes to the general contours of their plan.

Okay yeah. We'll come back for an contract-alliance later. They'll do their own thing to help out with weapons.

Army now.

[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Ma'on, the gunpowder-fists of the Western Navel [Gain a contact in the Militant Pugilist sect and its squads of street-toughs, granting strong bodies on the ground].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.
 
Revolutionaries generally tend to be macho edgelords so the Ma'on being what they are is perhaps imperfect but certainly not an impediment to being useful. The vacuum in leadership they're experiencing and the bonds of shared combat should make them a lot more amenable to influence from the HaKhofshim, though.
I just thought of something else we all failed to consider.

The Ma'on are hypermasculine edgelords, and their leaders were just fucking murdered, and in their eyes, nobody is willing to do anything and are just pussyfooting around. So you have strong men full of masculine ideals and vigor, whose leadership has just been taken out and they didnt have great political and ideological discipline in the first place beyond "Fuck the Man".

And now they have a righteous fire in their bellies, but it's a standoff situation where everybody else is trying to do a rational cost-benefit analysis so as to make the optimal move. So nobody is willing to act first.

Where we have seen this before time and time again? And what has it caused time and time again?

Everyone for the love of God pick Ma'on.

The HaKhofshim and the Pale Horse Veterans need to be in place beat some sense and discipline into them before the Ma'on go off half-cocked and ram a cart full of explosives into the Sword-Altar's barracks before our allies have finished their preparations. If this goes off now the Originators will be able to wipe out the Sanhedron elders and take out most of the political elites who can coordinate factions against them.
 
It should be mentioned that the Great Synod is in your neighborhood, housed in the House of Creation.
 
[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Ma'on, the gunpowder-fists of the Western Navel [Gain a contact in the Militant Pugilist sect and its squads of street-toughs, granting strong bodies on the ground].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

I've been convinced by the promise of enacting Vengeance with the power of incredible violence.
 
Yeeeep.

Oh fuck that's even worse. Pick Ma'on and Pale Horse if you dont want the war to start literally next turn guys. Maybe before this turn even ends.

Yeah, this is a major exaggeration. Let's not start a panic spiral here. This assassination spree was so daunting because it was well-planned and well-considered. Our response should be equally so. Giving in to the urge for immediate vengeance and violence is going to dilute our efficacy.
 
Yeah, this is a major exaggeration. Let's not start a panic spiral here. This assassination spree was so daunting because it was well-planned and well-considered. Our response should be equally so. Giving in to the urge for immediate vengeance and violence is going to dilute our efficacy.
Alternately - It'll be the LAST THING THEY EVER EXPECT /j

Nah, I get you there. But I do think that promoting militancy is going to be very important to our long-term survival given the choices we've made up to this point, and this gives us a massive push through that door, both by getting us in with the other pugilists and giving us some more jurors, who we already have doctrine focusing on.

I also still think Fervour is going to let us ride that bull much better, and I am convinced that the bull (metaphorically) is about to break loose soon, and we need the militant power to hold our own as soon as possible. If things don't break loose - We can build discipline. If things do break loose - Good thing we have all those fighters and our Absolute Fervour.
 
Yeah, this is a major exaggeration. Let's not start a panic spiral here. This assassination spree was so daunting because it was well-planned and well-considered. Our response should be equally so. Giving in to the urge for immediate vengeance and violence is going to dilute our efficacy.
No that's not what I'm saying. Look at my posts again.

I'm not saying we are should give in to the urge for immediate vengeance and violence.

I'm saying all these clever plans about efficiency won't matter if we forget that there is a volatile element. That the Sword Altar deliberately provoked. The Ma'on.

Because if we arent riding on herd on the Ma'on to get them under control, the Ma'on will attack the Grand Synod very soon regardless of what anyone else wishes, wants or plans. And then the war will be on before we had a time for a well planned and well considered anything. Maybe it wont be the whole of their Sect, but as we all know.

A dozen stupid young men drunk on fury can well do the most stupid thing to provoke the biggest chain reaction.
 
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