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The Path Unending (A Cultivation Quest)

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[X]Like you said, we are a pack. If you ever need me, i'll be there.

Shorter dialogue write-ins are better
 
Vesvius said:
"Geng try make flee. But when flee, chase. And if catch, back General's Grave. Back Geng house. Back training."
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You know, I was really concerned that Geng Tu had something actually important. That he had power over Nokai's that wasn't a blunt threat and a bigger stick. It's almost disappointing that he doesn't have anything other than that, no clever plots or traps, but fuck, that's just kind of the point. He isn't an evil mastermind, he's not clever, he's just the kind of shithead that would go back on his word and say everyone else is stupid for not expecting him to have so little integrity. Which is how evil, shitty people do it in real life, but man, it's well done to point that out.

[X]Like you said, we are a pack. If you ever need me, i'll be there.
 
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If Xiong Eryu -- a member of the deposed previous dynasty -- can succeed at the sect and be sheltered, I'm optimistic this can work for Nokai.

I feel like one of the biggest things we could do to help her is to help her find more allies. Teng Lim is the obvious one. But I wonder if best sister Kumi would like to meet a pack of ascended dogs? Having a senior friend who might get annoyed if there's sufficiently aggressive shenanigans could be helpful.

But this kind of strategic stuff isn't what's important now, I think.
 
What horrifies me about this situation...

Is that Nokai has been consistently Brave, hell even flippant about most dangerous things... but the idea of being caught and taking back to the Geng's home TERRIFIES her.

That's some Serious PTSD shit from a girl who by her own admission was out killing folks before puberty.

Jesus Wept, what the actual fuck did the Geng DO?!!

-

On another note, folks. While all the votes to Hug the girl are very heartwarming... they don't really give Ves much to work with in terms of an update. Remember the Teng Lim update where we didn't come up with a plan? Let's not repeat that for the sake of Ves's Sanity.

In additon... the plans for helping Nokai... while nice, seem to miss the point of the prompt.

Vesvius said:
Nokai has laid bare her past and her reasons for being in the Delving Heart. What can you even say in response?
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I view this as another chance for the Thread to influence Kong Zhi's Character in a big way.

Our friend just told us she killed people like us, until a Noble from our culture forced her to stop and tried to purge all traces of her culture from her. HOW DOES KONG ZHI REACT?

Is he horrified that the doggos he loves to pet have spilled his countrymen's blood? Does his heart bleed for his friends pain? ETC

We have a prime chance to tell Ves how Kong Zhi is feeling rather than the other way around.

So c'mon guys.... tell me, what do you think Kong Zhi is FEELING right now? :smile2:
 
[X] When I first saw you, I didn't understand how people could be afraid of you. I didn't know your history, or the history of your people. I've learned a great deal since coming to the sect, about how people can be monsters, and sometimes monsters might be people. What I know is that you've helped me without thought of repayment and at cost to yourself. I am still your friend, if you will have me, and I hope you are mine as well. *hugs* Also, Geng Tu is an evil bastard, and I hope we can make him regret ever coming here.
 
[X]Like you said, we are a pack. If you ever need me, i'll be there.

Dont think Nokai needs a hug, just to know that someone is there for her. A hug seems... Invasive for some reason.

P.S: This is idiotic but I really want to fuck the Geng now. We wont do because it is borderline suicide against a giant noble family but a giraffe can dream
 
[x] When I first saw you, I didn't understand how people could be afraid of you. I didn't know your history, or the history of your people. I've learned a great deal since coming to the sect, about how people can be monsters, and sometimes monsters might be people. What I know is that you've helped me without thought of repayment and at cost to yourself. I am still your friend, if you will have me, and I hope you are mine as well. *hugs* Also, Geng Tu is an evil bastard, and I hope we can make him regret ever coming here.

If not this then
[x] I am sorry for what you went through. I am also sorry for my countrymen. But.... All I can know for sure right now is that you are my friend. I will help you against Geng Tu. Do not be afraid to ask for help.
[x] The only mistake you make is thinking Radiants are weak. We are not. As your tribe found out the reason we can allow our unseated to grow soft and weak is that we are strong among our leadership and soldiers.
 
Just to weigh in on the 'Pack' vote before this goes too crazy, that is a very problematic statement following this interaction.

Nokai just admitted that she was killing Radiants and, notably, has no remorse for doing so*. If further pack actions would involve more of such things in the future I feel like I can safely say that we would very firmly NOT be down for that. Even if we somehow reached the point where we cut ties with the entire Empire and go full Sunboi, the Kong family would not escape reprisal given who we'd be snubbing and I don't see Kong Zhi ever getting to the point where he'd be okay with that given the family interactions so far.

We should support our friend and ensure her torment ends, yes, but it cannot be a blanket unconditional support without betraying the character of Kong Zhi. Hence why I called it a fine mess earlier.



*She might have remorse now, but even if she does the situation she described where both peoples are just killing each other for [reasons] continues to be a sticking point for the future. Something must be done at least in the context of Nokai if not the ideal situation of complete conflict resolution.

Gonna sleep on it.
 
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This does at least explain why Geng Tu's letter home provoked such a response. It wasn't about Tu, it was about messing with a higher up's personal project.

Falconis said:
Just to weigh in on the 'Pack' vote before this goes too crazy, that is a very problematic statement following this interaction.

Nokai just admitted that she was killing Radiants and, notably, has no remorse for doing so*. If further pack actions would involve more of such things in the future I feel like I can safely say that we would very firmly NOT be down for that. Even if we somehow reached the point where we cut ties with the entire Empire and go full Sunboi, the Kong family would not escape reprisal given who we'd be snubbing and I don't see Kong Zhi ever getting to the point where he'd be okay with that given the family interactions so far.

We should support our friend and ensure her torment ends, yes, but it cannot be a blanket unconditional support without betraying the character of Kong Zhi. Hence why I called it a fine mess earlier.



*She might have remorse now, but even if she does the situation she described where both peoples are just killing each other for [reasons] continues to be a sticking point for the future. Something must be done at least in the context of Nokai if not the ideal situation of complete conflict resolution.

Gonna sleep on it.
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I think in the short and mid term this isn't a major issue, she'll mostly just want to get strong enough to protect herself. Longer term getting roped into revanchism would be bad though.
 
[X] I don't know how was the battle and I am sorry to you but I can't say I am sad about the results. I am a Kong, a Radiant charmcrafter in the end. However, I am sad about what you went through, the... I think the arrogance to try to change the culture of a person. I can't agree with something that horrible no matter who did it. Nokai, you let me be part of your pack, you helped me when that pig of Jin tried to attack me cowardly, and you fight with me when you didn't need it. You are my friend and because of that I will always try to help you... But I can't promise you to stand by your side if one day you go to your people or try to do something against the Geng, I will even try to stop you in this one. The former because it would destroy my family, the latter because I don't want something very bad happening to you.

A try to an answer. I don't know how much KZ would think of radiant soldiers dying since no one of them was from family (I guess?) and you tend to not overthink a death from someone you never met, maybe be sad about sooo many people dying, but still. My point in this write-in is to put a stand to Nokai: we are pack but we cant give you full loyalty without putting everyone connected to us In danger. We are VERY proud of our family and KZ wants to do things for filial love, so doing something that would blow hard in Kong's name is a no-go.

I don't think that Nokai would be angry with us, really. Not happy of course, but she can understand that we cant do every little thing for her. In the same way she too wouldn't go against her people or pack in the same situation.

I don't know if the Geng part of trying to stop her is a good idea to say but it is kind obvious that Nokai, even if she becomes extremely powerful, cant win against a full noble house even with allies. After all, the Geng has too.
 
Ask her if she wants a suicide charm? Iunno, my methods for dealing with prolonged trauma aren't healthy.


She wants power over her own situation. She probably feels, even now, that she's dancing to the Geng family's tune. The issue is the only path to personal power and control over her fate is to continue doing what she's been doing.

Project idea:cultivation aids. Craft charms that increase the ease of cycling. We can model our prototypes for use by her dogs. Her main obstacle is cultivating for a group instead of accommodating an individual. Charms can help offset that.

Other option: ask about her culture. Take part, perhaps. Help her keep her people's ways alive. Her main issue is a lack of control, but if she's speaking her people's tongue, she hasn't been broken yet.
 
Falconis said:
Just to weigh in on the 'Pack' vote before this goes too crazy, that is a very problematic statement following this interaction.

Nokai just admitted that she was killing Radiants and, notably, has no remorse for doing so*.
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This is a really good point. The more I think about it, the more it seems important to address this:
  • She may be worried we're going to reject her when we really understand her past, and leaving this as an elephant in the room doesn't fully fix that.
  • If we don't set clear expectations, she might expect us to do something we can't in the future.
  • In some ways, it would be kind of disrespectful to gloss over that aspect of her past by ignoring this.
 
Falconis said:
Nokai just admitted that she was killing Radiants and, notably, has no remorse for doing so
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They are engaging in the systematic kidnapping and destruction of their people, I'm not too concerned about her asking us to kill indiscriminately. The people who killed Mei Daiyu's mentor were also radiants doing terrible stuff, and we would probably kill them under plenty of circumstances.
 
[x] When I first saw you, I didn't understand how people could be afraid of you. I didn't know your history, or the history of your people. I've learned a great deal since coming to the sect, about how people can be monsters, and sometimes monsters might be people. What I know is that you've helped me without thought of repayment and at cost to yourself. I am still your friend, if you will have me, and I hope you are mine as well. *hugs* Also, Geng Tu is an evil bastard, and I hope we can make him regret ever coming here.

@Seadrake8 Your vote has a typo so it's counted separately instead of saying "history of your people" your version says "history of my people".
 
zang269 said:
They are engaging in the systematic kidnapping and destruction of their people, I'm not too concerned about her asking us to kill indiscriminately. The people who killed Mei Daiyu's mentor were also radiants doing terrible stuff, and we would probably kill them under plenty of circumstances.
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On the one hand, yes, yes they are

On the other... remember the canon sidestory where the Noontide Tyrant toys with and slaughters Radiants for the fun of it?

Vesvius said:
As the sun perches high in the heavens and bloodchilling howls slice through the air, Brother Hisiao of the Sapphire Glory School comes to the realization that he is about to die.
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This isn't a story about the poor aboriginals getting bullied by a more powerful empire. There is no good guy in this fight. Radiants are doing terrible things to Sunholders and Sunholders are doing terrible things to Radiants.

Nokai, by her own admission, was raiding and killing people with her fellow Sunholders.

Now, she is our friend and that makes matters interesting. But going the whole... RADIANTS are bad guys, is going too far.

Aunt Bi is a Radiant, so is Fa and Shouxi, and all the Kongs including Zhi
 
[X] When I first saw you, I didn't understand how people could be afraid of you. I didn't know your history, or the history of your people. I've learned a great deal since coming to the sect, about how people can be monsters, and sometimes monsters might be people. What I know is that you've helped me without thought of repayment and at cost to yourself. I am still your friend, if you will have me, and I hope you are mine as well. *hugs* Also, Geng Tu is an evil bastard, and I hope we can make him regret ever coming here.
 
Erm, guys, I know that Nokai is our friend, and that her suffering pains us, but Sunholders are not the good guys here.

Also, Zhi, his family, this Sect and almost everyone he knows (bar Xu Yun) is Radiant.

In Sunholder vs Radiant, there is no doubt whom I am supporting.

I have absolutely zero intention of enabling Nokai's revanchism.

Honestly, Nokai still suffers from the double-think where she hates Radiants while still having Radiants as her best friends and allies.

She will have to compromise on her hate (and she has partly already done that) if she wants to remain out of Geng clutches.
The long-term career in the Sect is by far the best option available to her.
 
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Knight-Radiant said:
RADIANTS are bad guys, is going too far.
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They are kidnapping people, that's a bad guy thing to be doing. The level of appropriate retaliation for what the Noontide Tyrant did back then isn't justification for what's happening four years ago or currently.
Horium said:
I have absolutely zero intention of enabling Nokai's revanchism.
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It's not revanchism if they're actively taking your people, that's taking land in the past. If they're still doing it, it's retaliation.
Horium said:
Honestly, Nokai still suffers from the double-think where she hates Radiants while still having Radiants as her best friends and allies.
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Nokai doesn't even hate Radiants as a whole, she's fully aware they're not a monolith. She's not going to regret killing anyone, either, because her attacked specifically in response to Sunholders being taken, and letting that just happen wouldn't be alright either. I don't really expect someone to regret it either, considering they probably didn't stop trying to civilize the Sunholders for any altruistic reasons, and maybe still haven't.
 
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