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Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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New Good Seed and Omake Rule Updates
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    • Good Seed and Omake Spreadsheet Rules:

    Firstly, if you have questions about Good Seeds and the like please read here. If that doesn't answer your question please ping me in thread, or on Discord.

    If you write a new Good Seed, or write an omake, please update the spreadsheet if you have access.

    If you do not have access, please ping a collaborator (Swordomatic, Alectai, Quest, TehChron, Insane-Not-Crazy, Humbaba, ReaderOfFate, Kaboomatic, no., BungieONI) letting them know what you want and they will update the spreadsheet here. To gain access, you will need a gmail account of some kind. Throwaway emails are fine (I'm using one for the spreadsheet), but to gain access it's as simple as sending me either your email via PM, via DM in Discord, or just in Discord's #spreadsheet-requests channel.

    This is mandatory. If a Good Seed does not record their omake by pinging collabs (or just requesting access and editing things themselves - this is the preferred option), I won't give out awards. If a new Good Seed is not recorded here, they won't advance. By doing this it makes the whole thing manageable for me - it's gotten pretty unwieldy!

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    Omake Writer Instructions:

    There are four fields you need to fill out.

    Omake Link, which is just a link to your first omake for the turn. This makes it easier for me to read them as I do the update - without this it's tough to know off the bat which omake were written this turn, and to properly

    Requested Bonus, which is your requested bonus for your omake. You can leave it up to me if you like. You can see more info in the Good Seed infopost here.

    Cultivation Aims. For those following unorthodox paths - higher than 9th Heavenstage or later than 7th Dao Pillar paths. Please put in what you are aiming for before you break through. I have left it as 'default'. If you do not edit it, I'll go with that.

    Turn Notes - Do you want to do something specific? Enter a Secret Realm? Help the Clan out in some way? If you have something specific you want to accomplish on this turn, put it in turn notes so I can adjust your Fate around it.

    All other fields are for QM use to record character information to properly run the flow of the game.
     
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    • [X] Plan Old Dickory, Technique Palace Version

    I'm in it for the Palace, our Qi Condensation kinsmen being individually weaker than our foes always bugged me. Reversing that should pay dividends in the future.

    Sticking it to the Jiangshou is just icing on the cake.
     
    Anyways guys, if we buy the palace we will have one wealth left over. Then, since we are getting seven per turn this time, we will have eight wealth to use on recovery next turn. That's not a huge amount, but it's not nothing.

    However, It will probably not be enough to fully recover from the damage we will take, so, barring an emergency, I suggest that once the trials end we use as many of our actions as we can to get wealth and finish the scorpion road.
     
    [X] Plan Old Dickory, Technique Palace Version

    Man, I wish I knew more than squat about the setting so I could join in. This looks really fun.
     
    Kaboomatic said:
    No, but you are asking that we vote for your current plan, which is spending a bunch of money for future gains, partially based on the assumptions that you both have plans to deal with the lack of funds we're gonna have if your plan wins, and those plans are good enough to make the risk worthwhile.
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    No, I'm asking that people vote to get the technique palace on it's own merits, as elaborated on in the fluff of the plan itself

    It wouldn't kill you to read the content of the posts before replying to arguments that no one made for future plans that don't yet exist

    We call that arguing against a strawman
     
    TehChron said:
    It wouldn't kill you to read the content of the posts before replying to arguments that no one made for future plans that don't yet exist
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    Wait
    If said future plans don't exist, then why did you say that you had future plans to deal with the issues that bungie raised?
    I know bungie advocates for actually getting the palace, but I'm not entirely sure we should do that, and bungie made some pretty good points, as detailed here:
    BungieONI said:
    Among other things, defeating the Blood Cannibals is going to take scads of cash going by what we'll need to recoup war losses and defend against Jingshen not wanting to be trapped in the thunderdome with just us. Plus whatever we're going to have to do to defend our gains, and the Palace, from sabotage and invasion and/or other forms of destruction.
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    And then you replied saying you had plans/schemes for it and that we'd be 'pleasantly surprised' eventually.

    And that brings us to my argument, which is 'yes, I like your plan and love the flavor text, and I really want to get the palace, but I'm not sure we can afford that wealth hit, but you say you have plans for dealing with that, so that's great! What are said plans?'

    And now you're accusing me of strawmanning
     
    [X] Plan Old Dickory, Technique Palace Version

    Kaboomatic said:
    And then you replied saying you had plans/schemes for it and that we'd be 'pleasantly surprised' eventually.

    And that brings us to my argument, which is 'yes, I like your plan and love the flavor text, and I really want to get the palace, but I'm not sure we can afford that wealth hit, but you say you have plans for dealing with that, so that's great! What are said plans?'

    And now you're accusing me of strawmanning
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    Might be wise for you to make a plan of your own then. We can afford paying the 20, cause we got 21 points of wealth. We cannot go over that 21 points of wealth on costs this turn.

    Whatever plans we have to bounce back from spending the 20 points in wealth is um not fun. Immediately after the trials, we either devote the clan action to wealth acquirement, diplomacy, or a focus on training. Do that for a few turns and the wealth will flow, at the cost of vulnerability and locking down like a turtle to prepare for the attack from one of the desert clans.

    Yeah, I can see that the Palace would help in freeing our clan action and the personal action away from fortification, or teaching. Which would allow other things to happen.
     
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    Kaboomatic said:
    If said future plans don't exist, then why did you say that you had future plans to deal with the issues that bungie raised?
    I know bungie advocates for actually getting the palace, but I'm not entirely sure we should do that, and bungie made some pretty good points, as detailed here:
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    Kaboom.

    If you actually read our discussion

    You'd see I was talking about Bungies misgivings about being able to invest into repairing the Palace in the future which is why we were discussing views on timescales

    seriously

    BungieONI said:
    I'm looking at it in terms of "what threats face us now and in ten+ turns".

    In all honesty until that wealth and most especially time to build it up manifests, I ain't gonna believe its going to happen, mostly because any such expansion is based on speculation from before the singularity point of not only the coming trials but the next trials as well and whatever stuff decides to blow up in between them.

    Among other things, defeating the Blood Cannibals is going to take scads of cash going by what we'll need to recoup war losses and defend against Jingshen not wanting to be trapped in the thunderdome with just us. Plus whatever we're going to have to do to defend our gains, and the Palace, from sabotage and invasion and/or other forms of destruction.
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    You need to stop misrepresenting things
     
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    TehChron said:
    Hehehehehehehehehehe

    I've been work shopping write-in schemes for a while now.

    I think that once the relevant opportunities present themselves you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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    Moving on, can you explain some of these future plans right now?

    [X] Plan Old Dickory, Technique Palace Version
     
    BungieONI said:
    Moving on, can you explain some of these future plans right now?
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    One I've already hinted at is if the situation allows for it, we use the last remaining turn of back door access we have from the Child Corpse Gulper Blood Key to run intrigue interference as a Clan focus next turn.

    Another is to force a confrontation with the Blood Cannibals and set up Array Traps along the border with the newly renamed Jiangshen Oasis in conjunction with that.

    Then there's using Intrigue to use the River Dragon gang as a cat's paw once the Demon Annihilating War is over with, as this conflict will ideally give both them and Strength Purity Sect massive amounts of face among the Righteous Powers.

    Or even requesting their assistance to help punch out the Cannibals while they serve as backup in case the Jiangshen try anything if the timescale for that takes longer than the next Trial.

    Theres also other breakpoints that I'm hoping for to exploit that are more vague ideas than anything else.

    Each of those are about offloading the cost of prosecuting a straight up invasion of the Blood Cannibals in some manner or another to make it more affordable.

    Like I said, they wont really turn into anything concrete until opportunities arise to take advantage of with them.
     
    Alectai said:
    I think it's "Until we're in a death spiral and can no longer recover" or "Until we become hegemon of the Virtuous Flipper Region".
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    I agree for the first, but for the second, assuming the quest lasts for that long, it's likely the true endgame would be gaining control over the entire Turtle World, not just a part of it like last time.

    After or during that, we'd overthrow the Heavens.

    (Ofc, you're probably just listing out a goal that's more likely to be reached in the duration of the quest.)
     
    ReaderOfFate said:
    I agree for the first, but for the second, assuming the quest lasts for that long, it's likely the true endgame would be gaining control over the entire Turtle World, not just a part of it like last time.

    After or during that, we'd overthrow the Heavens.

    (Ofc, you're probably just listing out a goal that's more likely to be reached in the duration of the quest.)
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    Nah, Occipital straight up said "You win if you become a regional hegemon" at one point, because we're trying to avoid the infinite escalation.
     
    Alectai said:
    I think it's "Until we're in a death spiral and can no longer recover" or "Until we become hegemon of the Virtuous Flipper Region".
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    That's why I'm asking the QM. Some of the options for character creation pointed into a direction of the quest ending at year 200. The Third Turtle is huge, taking over the Virtuous Flipper Region (weakest place in this reality) is going to be hard to do for us players and possibly take 500 years just to take the desert. If the clan doesn't die from a death spiral, there is no ending?
     
    Marlin said:
    That's why I'm asking the QM. Some of the options for character creation pointed into a direction of the quest ending at year 200. The Third Turtle is huge, taking over the Virtuous Flipper Region (weakest place in this reality) is going to be hard to do for us players and possibly take 500 years just to take the desert. If the clan doesn't die from a death spiral, there is no ending?
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    The "Year 200" is "When the Spirit Severing penalty comes to roost and you are either strong enough to win or he kills you all". Is what I felt anyway.

    Like, I sincerely doubt we're almost halfway through the entire game in our current state when we're still juggling our starting problems.
     
    BungieONI said:
    Actually, question that occurs to me. @occipitallobe if we did get the palace, would the Trial Hunters be allowed to and inclined to destroy it? I.e is it a hard asset we could feasibly lose (disregarding crit fails due to their rarity making them not really feasible) during a Trial? If it is, what sort of steps would we need to take to mitigate that potential risk?
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    Allowed, yes.

    Inclined, no. They don't do much infrastructure damage at all, excluding cracking fortifications to kill the Clan member inside.

    Marlin said:
    @occipitallobe what is "end-game" for this quest? Year 200? Conquering a region? Collapse into obscurity? Reaching Soul Severing? Reaching 100 wealth per turn?
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    Losing would mean losing a Nascent Soul, realistically. If the Golden Devils have no Nascent Souls, they get overrun in no time at all - even by ostensibly neutral powers.

    Winning would be dominating the region.

    Either of those would cause an end to the current quest. At this stage I could see myself maybe doing a followup (the Golden Devil refugees led by a Core Formation cultivator! Or a timeskip followed by a change to the world allowing a rise to Spirit Severing, maybe), but I have no concrete plans.
     
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