Until Apo-chan decides to bring the Foremost back because she thought things weren't interesting enough.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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- Original
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- a place
Also, Apocyphal can explicitly start throwing shit at us from outside the universe if we get strong enough, much less bootstrap things in it to become stronger, which I don't think a measly 2.5% will be enough to get to ignore.
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I'm still wondering whether Apocrypha is going to support the other Cursebearer against us. One the one hand he is perfect material for empowerment, but on the other hand she promises an Apocryphal Onslaught if Aobaru dies. I'm getting mixed signals here! If she wants Aobaru to survive, why doesn't she let up on Hunger a bit?
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
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Mhm. If it's an Cursebearer, why not let him/her kill Aobaru in exchange for helping us for the rest of his/her time here? Surely, two Cursebearer can face down an Apocryphal onslaught!
It's not like Aobaru is anywhere near as important as one of Accursed's chosens in any way! I don't think I can support slaying an fellow Cursebearer! The only one who wins would be Accursed's enemies in that case!
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- Location
- a place
I think what's likely happening is that the death of the Voyaging Realm's Chosen One, Aoboru in this case, sets up various circumstances that allow the curse to be able to make Hunger's life a whole lot more interesting then it normally would.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
There's gonna be another challenge after this one, I'm pretty sure.
Hunger's progression isn't stopping any time soon- it might timeskip but it won't stop. As long as we keep stacking up complications and perils and sacrifices and ways to endanger others, those chickens are gonna keep coming home to roost.
She's pretty explicit about her motivation though:
Her mood determines Apo-chan's actions far more than anything else including Mitigation, it feels like to me. Just curious why she doesn't offer temporary Mitigation to Hunger if she is so incensed by the possibility of Aobaru's death.
- Location
- NY
[X] Eye of the Storm
More waifu, better laifu
More waifu, better laifu
I have issues with implications of that question tbh, since we actually do have pretty good reasons; we did choose to proc chains that put a boy who is going to save scattered and chaotic Voyaging Realm into danger before his time. Focusing on protecting him is not wrong, be it simple preference or long-term considerations of how he is eventually fated to influence VR.
And I do think that Tower options do better at protecting him in the medium to long term; our singular Non-tower option does much to empower and protect him, yes, but against opponents that grow like Hunger, actually empowering Hunger and accelerating his growth seems to be the best defense, since groups of lesser opponents rarely mean anything in the face overwhelmingly powerful champions in Rihakuverse. Temple and Rotbeast threw literal armies at us to stop us, but only opposition that mattered even slightest bit ended up being Temple's Stenallon and Rotbeast's own strength.
Likewise, against a progression-tier opponent, Hunger's strength is most likely to be the only thing that matters.
On the other side of "why pick Tears+Tower"equation, picking Adorie with her Spare The Innocent bonus focuses Apocryphal procs on Hunger; We are worried about decimation shearing away lifespans, but even now we are threatening these people by our very presence.
Making sure that Apocrypha is going to strike at Hunger instead of striking at the nations he protects is pretty big mitigation of how much Hunger threatens innocent population at any given time. Remember how not so long ago apocryphal proc threatened Elixir nations with a giant toxic Kajiu? How other Apocryphal possibility was a trigger-happy kill-team finding them in the middle of population point? How Moon Civ was pointed out as an Apocryphal bait, and especially so if we ever choose to call upon Sten's help?
It is a big ??? which flavor of curse-nonsense harming the populace is more unpalatable, but I do think that making sure that permanently focusing Apocryphal on Hunger only might actually be worth short-term decimation exposure, presuming it actually happens.
Apo mitigation always was, and always will be mostly incremental. I had seen the thread repeatedly refuse mitigation, often reasoning it with "we'll just outscale it" and "5% percent mitigation is not really that much mitigation"...
....Which ended up with us acquiring no additional mitigation at all, beyond those 10% default percents we got by choosing Gisena at chargen.
People had their reasons and such of course, but nonetheless. No additional mitigation since the start of the quest. Something like 70 updates?
Apo strives to make things interesting, not to kill us; so it quite possibly might start boosting him in certain situations. It would be a stretch to say that Apo mitigation directly nerfs Aobaru's Hunter, but it does lessen the threat of interference at least from that front.
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By the way, it's a bit funny to see Curses come into conflict like that. The Geas of the other Cursebearer wants Aobaru dead, Apocrypha will be upset if he dies, can't they just decide things among themselves before they involve poor Cursebearers? Hmm, alternatively, is there some kind of Geas mitigation that allows one to lose and skip a task without dying? We might want to help them acquire that somehow if we decide that they don't deserve death.
IDK about leaving this realm at all. Tyrant is an active player; he will likely do something to make our life difficult, even if we take Adorie+our companions out of his reach.
I prefer plans that include simply getting Winter King and all of its composite pieces ASAP, a majestic short-term build that is considerably stronger than any currently avalible to us, and then Just Shooting Him. We are doing good job to make that specific plan very much possible right now, with this lively discussion. As previously discussed, we just need two updates, one of which is that "meeting Adorie" update, which was supposed to be the "now" of the timeline if we did not delay things with all these outrageous arete generation and stuff.
Perhaps Aobaru dying before our dear Apo-chan sets off her own plan involving him will be exceedingly annoying to her, and in leu of her carefully crafted plan she's just going to start hammering us. I don't think she will be helping the other cursebearer, but I can't imagine her going out of her way to help either. Just punish us for failure.
Edit: inserted correct quote & elaborated
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Jack-o'-Lantern
Local Shitposter
- Location
- Hell
[X] King and Court
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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I mean there's an pretty easy way to help the hypothetical Cursebearer. Just let him kill Aobaru in exchange for helping us for the rest of his/her time in this universe. That should make Apocryphal onslaught survival and result in an awesome Cursebearer team up alongside probably numerous benefits from having another Progression-type with us.
Should the world itself rise up against you, strike it down or so Accursed told us. So Why not do that with some help? It's the only way in which Accursed's wouldn't lose in some way that I can see.
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Let's ignore the character implications of betraying our squire after he heroically saved our hide for a moment and imagine the opposing Cursbearer agrees. Why in the world would we trust the other Cursebearer to stay instead of skipping worlds once the Onslaught becomes too much? His ride is always just a Geas call away.
It will make him a person that is not actually good enough to compensate for his choices, the exact shape of which will probably be voted upon.
I disagree, at least in Hunger's case. He doesn't simply not calculate or contemplate the risks, he simply takes his abilities into account and decides that those risks are not actually high enough to stop him from taking his course. And sure, his assessment of his capabilities might not be entirely accurate, but it's not entirely inaccurate either - he might very well be good enough to take the risks. It's a flaw, but an interesting and understandable one, and I feel like it reflects both Hunger's character and the decision-making process of the thread. Even when facing the consequences, we choose the most dangerous but the least assured option and bet we are good enough to handle it. I won't mind Hunger having such an opinion of himself, and I think that we can handle the interesting times it brings.
Now, to be entirely fair, I am not the greatest fan of double downing on that flaw, either - if we could choose OaF+Tears, I would go for that in a heartbeat. But, we can't, and I like Tears enough to go for recklessness with them.
- Location
- US
[X] Eye of the Storm
Getting OaF with Chains is just such a waste. There isn't OaF II either. For that reason, I'm picking the option that gives us a quarter stage of Apoc mitigation for the trials ahead, in addition to boosting our Praxis capabilities.
Getting OaF with Chains is just such a waste. There isn't OaF II either. For that reason, I'm picking the option that gives us a quarter stage of Apoc mitigation for the trials ahead, in addition to boosting our Praxis capabilities.
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DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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- Earth
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- They
I mean in the alternative, we will likely be killing one of the minions of our boss, who helped us when no one else did! Is this how we repay him by killing his curse mitigation!
I suppose we will just have to trust there words or hope they don't leave untill it's truly desperate. But it's the only viable way I can see of surviving Apocryphal onslaught! But good point anyway!
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
And the point at which this becomes recklessness is the point where he stops calculating and starts assuming.
In a 'Tower' build vote, Hunger's not thinking "I actually know I can solve this Decimation problem without disaster befalling the Resistance in my absence." He doesn't know he can do that, any more than we can. He has decided he can do that. That he will somehow Find A Way, even if he doesn't know what it is yet when he only has two days to figure shit out.
That is recklessness. That mental state where one is so blithely confident that either one will solve the problem, or that the problem will solve itself, that one does not even need to modify one's own behavior in order to deal with the problem. That one can simply follow one's natural impulses (in Hunger's case, greed for power-ups) and everything will somehow work out okay once again.
This is not a good way to run a character.
We need to stop.
Dangerous words to mention, though I suppose we don't have a supremely capable previous incarnation to support that sort of confidence. ...We don't, right?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
First, we may not want to evolve Hunger into the man that that man was.
Second, the man that man was didn't do the recklessness. His was the dreadnought's bearing and the Companions and the Holy Shit. His advances and actions were, by all accounts, methodical, sure, and overpowering. He did not allow himself to be lightly or easily diverted from achieving his goals.
I don't think we can rely on Four Bears' power to save us, when we continue to act more like a hyperactive Tasmanian devil.
We've picked chains so the growth multiplier provided by a Tower+Pillars+Ruling Ring build would allow us to outscale the cursebearer without having to pick excessively risky options. For tactics for if eye of the storm wins we should immediately go after the lord protector and choose signs that maximise speed so we can successfully use Artful Thorn against him, as we wouldn't be powerful enough to easily kill him without OaF and the 1/4 exertion from Tears would mean we would have enough uses to kill him with it.
The Forebearer might be that incarnation.