A Simple Transaction I

There's something to be said for encouraging Elementalists into coteries loyal to an ideal... idealism is one of the primary ways to stop powerful officials from raiding the public coffer! A mediocre policy implemented well (because your administrators and generals are loyal to the ideals of the throne) may be better for the public welfare in the long term than even the most well-crafted policy implemented by avaricious or incompetent middle-managers!

Furthermore, even a single outlier Elementalist can drastically change Hunger's own personal power, improving his long-term safety by better allowing him to outscale the Apocryphal to find lateral solutions to the problems it presents!

[X] Finding Capable Administrators

What's the point of being in a monarch if we can't patch up and cut through the cruft that any system accrues to reform it when necessary? We don't need something that will last for ten thousand years, at the rate we're growing stronger even one year will be sufficient for us to design a system of peerless efficiency and compassion. Consider what +++++Wisdom and Intelligence or another level of general Rank might do for our abilities to rule well. So long as it works for now and leaves them reasonably well off, we can alter things later when we're massively more competent and capable.

[X] Constitutional Design
[X] The Elementalists

In the battle of personal responsibility and stewardship vs functional political structure, it's no question which one is preferable. Ennobling individuals and then leaving them to handle it is as quick and dirty as it gets. I'm willing to be convinced that speed is necessary at this juncture, but it's obviously the worse option otherwise.

We're investing in effort here to make sure we get the full arete from Feat: Crown, really.

Regarding the factions pick, None requires more investment that we want to give, and Traditionalists leaves them richer but less able to defend themselves. Since we definitely aren't sticking around in the long term, and are likely gone in the medium term, it's going to have to be the option which produces powerhouses, regardless of my distaste for this option.

I think this combination is the one that most effectively balances the long term health and safety of the Sovereignty with our desires.

We've at this point invested quite a bit of prior choices into things that lead to the saiyan army being good, so probably we should just go ahead and formalize it now.

[X] Finding Capable Administrators
[X] The Traditionalists

Might change later how to handle the government thing since I'm not really attached to either option but i find hiring capable administrators highly to succeed attractive now...

Also going for traditionalist since it seems to give consistent goodies for us while the Elementalist one is... i'm not sure to trust the gacha of having to trust others to help us. Sureit could grant us amazing individuals who can help us fight in the future... i worry that these individuals would cost some arete.

@Rihaku , will having Elementalists in the future help us cost arete or is this something decided by just gacha rolls to see how good the elementalist we get?

So regardless of which we pick we should, as a thread, probably try to generate a Constitution. I suspect it will help matters considerably if we come up with something based on the real world that translates well.

The fun part about this is if you like politics we get to dissect how they haven't worked and try to implement patches.

For example the US constitution is probably not a very good base, because it's... not been ideal.

[X] Finding Capable Administrators
[X] The Elementalists

Honestly, between the utility even a single sub Aobaru-tier Surgecrafter can bring to the sovereignty and Runeblue making the point were going to get eponetnially wiser and smarter as time goes on, with even ADS given us incredible boosts in that regard, it's honestly probably to find the most capable and loyal to our ideals people as possible while prioritizing the creation of Surgecrafters who can defend the Soveignty from threats while we're gone and whose utility powers could make extraordinary changes to the city-states lifestyle.

[X] Constitutional Design
[X] The Traditionalists

while microwave is napping i will steal her tentative vote choice and pretend it was my own; on a 100% unrelated note, holy shit am i behind on the thread proper

gomen, hunger

[X] Constitutional Design
[X] The Elementalists

It would probably be best not to have good governance rely on the well-being of a few administrators, even highly competent ones. Systems are often more robust than any number of individuals, so it's a good foundation for our future efforts,

Byzantine said:

So regardless of which we pick we should, as a thread, probably try to generate a Constitution. I suspect it will help matters considerably if we come up with something based on the real world that translates well.

The fun part about this is if you like politics we get to dissect how they haven't worked and try to implement patches.

For example the US constitution is probably not a very good base, because it's... not been ideal.

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100% agree.

Somebody needs to tell India to calm down, they're the only country with a six figure wordcount in their constitution. Ah, the Netherlands looks promising.

Yeah, I'm not going to touch the legal loophole-closing, outlines would be the best start. What do we need in a constitution? Rights of citizens, defining citizenship itself, powers of government, organization of governmental power, how the legal system works, how to change the constitution itself... there are a lot of things Hunger and Gisena need to have opinions on here, yeesh.

It's time to C O N S T I T U T E.

[X] Finding Capable Administrators
[X] The Traditionalists

As we've been talking about in the discord, if the system can last even a year or ten Hunger is going to be far, far better suited to handling it when he comes back. So going for the option likely to handle that much seems a reasonable start.

It doesn't prevent us from having a flash of insight and the thread omaking a good constitution into existence too.

Priest said:

[X] Constitutional Design
[X] The Traditionalists

while microwave is napping i will steal her tentative vote choice and pretend it was my own; on a 100% unrelated note, holy shit am i behind on the thread proper

gomen, hunger

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Have you tried reading? I know it's difficult, but I believe in you!

Rihaku said:

"F-five days," Letrizia blanched. "To overhaul their entire apparatus of state? That's-"

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"What the people want," Hunger said, eyebrows raised. "And we're going with what they want. Isn't that right, duchess?"
What a bully!

Rihaku said:

Afterwards, as Hunger retired to his room, Gisena dropped by with her newly completed Artifact. "This will make hunting for Decimator's mitigation much easier! You may praise me now."

"Truly you are a genius among geniuses," Hunger said dryly. "A star of grace come to earth and enlightening us by your presence. I simply don't know what we'd do without you."

"Ah~ wonderful!" Gisena fanned herself. "Praise me more!"

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Gisena continues to be the best as Hunger accidentally reveals his true feelings but tries to disguise them by using a dry tone!

Rihaku said:

"Naturally," Gisena feigned demureness. "But let's talk politics. Are you sure about this, hun? You've got a mission to follow and it doesn't involve this Sovereignty, charming as it may be!"

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It's nice how Gisena always trys to protect Hunger, even from his own heroics.

Rihaku said:

"Always trying your hardest," Gisena said fondly, resting her head against his shoulder. "Cursebearers deserve vacations too!"

"If only we all got what we deserved," he deadpanned.

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Truly a devotee of the Praxis.

Rihaku said:

"Exactly!" She rejoined, eyes wide. "So much acclaim would come my way! Perhaps I should be Queen instead?"

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What a great idea!

Rihaku said:

She batted her eyelashes at him. "How about Princess Consort?"

"How about another three Artifacts? We've Curses to be mitigating."

"Yes, your Majesty!"

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So what Hunger's saying here is once Gisena makes three more Artifacts they'll become a couple! My dreams are being realized!


[X] Constitutional Design
[X] The Traditionalists

Lay a strong foundation for the kingdom with Constitutional Design, then ensure they stick to it by strengthing the traditionalists. Plus Gisena buffs mean I'm obligated to pick Traditionalists. The buff to artifice is quite nice though even for those who aren't true believers. Just need three more artifacts!

What's the current vote count?

Projectile said:

Yeah, I'm not going to touch the legal loophole-closing, outlines would be the best start. What do we need in a constitution? Rights of citizens, defining citizenship itself, powers of government, organization of governmental power, how the legal system works... there are a lot of things Hunger and Gisena need to have opinions on here, yeesh.

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Yep.

One of the things is probably division of districts. This should be done by a neutral 3rd party unrelated to the government and vetted for the desire to their job and resistance to threats and bribery. In the US voting districts have proven to be... problematic due to a lack of these things.

We likely need two levels of government: Local and State. The Sovereignty isn't big enough to require a federal division on top of that.

[X] Constitutional Design

[X] None

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A lot of people seem to like The Traditionalists, which I understand, because it gets us loot and improves our general shinies and stabilizes the income of the Sovereignty. But consider that we aren't going to be around to protect them most of the time, and really don't want to be. We're less helicopter parent monarch, and more "hey just checking in with you" every once in a while. Leaving the Sovereignty in a state where it's richer but has less ability to defend itself seems really foolish, given how many strong and greedy people there likely are in the Voyaging Realm.

It's like we're lining up pool balls for the Apocryphal Curse to put an easy few in the corner pockets with a clever angle.

DarkSideBard said:

Regarding the factions pick, None requires more investment that we want to give, and Traditionalists leaves them richer but less able to defend themselves. Since we definitely aren't sticking around in the long term, and are likely gone in the medium term, it's going to have to be the option which produces powerhouses, regardless of my distaste for this option.

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Indeed, there's something to be said for cultivating the martial abilities of the Elementalists in a voluntary fashion. Unless Gisena builds them a superpower capable of defending against Rotbeast-level threats, how will they fare against another Kaiju, or threats more fearsome still?

So, there's a theory going around that, going from how Trinity was for our Artifact EFBs, one for Sword (Cut Through), one for our Mantle (Silver of Evening), and one for our Ring (Crimson Flare), and that there is a Second Trinity of Feats for Crown (Rulership of the Elixir Sovereignty), Saber (???), and Orb (???), that there is a Third Trinity of Defining Advancements for Shield, Symbol, and Sword.

Now, I noticed looking back at the poem in Aloft to Murder that, the position of Blade/Saber/Sword shifts to the left in each successive trinity, which made me wonder if I could predict things about the other feats and the defining advancements based on what we know already.

Performing this analysis, we find the Ring to be associated with the Crown and the Symbol, and the Mantle to be associated with the Orb and the Shield. From this, I believe we might be able to predict the following:

The specific Defining Advancement which Be the Change unlocks if we succeed to be The Symbol and that it will relate to our ability win Contests of Primacy, relating to our ring by way of Ruling Ring.
The Saber feat will likely involve martial action, and perhaps specifically conquest. Defeating the Tyrant of the Opalescent Tower (an explicitly optional objective) may qualify.
Achieving The Saber feat may unlock The Sword defining advancement, which I imagine will be a general combat buff, but which may also allow us to extend further buffs to a military organization which we lead.
The Orb feat will likely involve some act of providing shelter, especially if we are able to achieve some relevant accomplishment with the Evening Sky, such as using it to protect our polity from a sieging army or strategic weapon deployment.
Achieving The Orb feat may unlock the Shield defining advancement, which I anticipate will allow for the Evening Sky to better integrate other magic systems, its resistance to nullification, and it's ability to encompass more than just Hunger alone.

[X] Finding Capable Administrators
[X] The Elementalists

Thinking on it some more we probably can't check in on them a ton, so focusing on their defensive power is probably for the best.

Byzantine said:

Yep.

One of the things is probably division of districts. This should be done by a neutral 3rd party unrelated to the government and vetted for the desire to their job and resistance to threats and bribery. In the US voting districts have proven to be... problematic due to a lack of these things.

We likely need two levels of government: Local and State. The Sovereignty isn't big enough to require a federal division on top of that.

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Thank goodness we don't actually have to sort it out, just sort out how to sort it out. Idea one: just make Azure do it. This is a bad idea.

I'm 99% naive to government, but if the ideal is to determine groups with shared interests, what if the voters voted for districts? As in, "I belong to this group, count me as one of them." Actually, does physical location necessarily have to come into it at all? But then you'd have to subdivide and combine groups, which would lead to the same problem, still need an arbiter for those decisions.

Okay, so they'd ideally be blind to the specific votes of individuals, but still have a good understanding of the community interests. Really, this seems like it would be solved by Picking Capable Administrators and ensuring someone less capable couldn't get in. "Don't make Hunger come over there" would be a nice threat against district fuckery, and we should remember that more generally as well. I like it.

But then there are protections from Hunger's Tyranny we'd need. Hm. How about, Hunger can have the authority to shake the government up if the current situation is replicated- that is, when he has the votes of most of the populace. More as a threat than something I'd expect to use.

Projectile said:

Thank goodness we don't actually have to sort it out, just sort out how to sort it out. Idea one: just make Azure do it. This is a bad idea.

I'm 99% naive to government, but if the ideal is to determine groups with shared interests, what if the voters voted for districts? As in, "I belong to this group, count me as one of them." Actually, does physical location necessarily have to come into it at all? But then you'd have to subdivide and combine groups, which would lead to the same problem, still need an arbiter for those decisions.

Okay, so they'd ideally be blind to the specific votes of individuals, but still have a good understanding of the community interests. Really, this seems like it would be solved by Picking Capable Administrators and ensuring someone less capable couldn't get in. "Don't make Hunger come over there" would be a nice threat against district fuckery, and we should remember that more generally as well. I like it.

But then there are protections from Hunger's Tyranny we'd need. Hm. How about, Hunger can have the authority to shake the government up if the current situation is replicated- that is, when he has the votes of most of the populace. More as a threat than something I'd expect to use.

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No, best to not have people vote for their own block. That can lead to problems with captured voting blocks. You are mostly describing what political parties are, really.

Something like the German model may be ideal here - there are both physical districts that represent the party that got a majority in that district and extra seats reserved so that the total proportions of the vote works out. (Ie if one party got 49% of the vote they should end up with ~49% of the total seats, even if they didn't win any districts.)

Hunger, naturally, will have the ability to veto any law, commute any sentence, pardon any crime, etc. He will, technically, be an absolute dictator... who just happens to defer everything to the political process set up to run the place.

[X] Finding Capable Administrators
[X] The Elementalists