A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
I'm glad someone here knows what they're doing, 'cause I sure don't. I should actually ask a simpler question. What is the purpose of a district? Rather than having all the seats be "extra," I guess. Oooor- no, that was me thinking too small. Districts are probably more important as you get more spread out, huh.
Currently, the council of founding families seems to be in charge of the government. How are we going to stop them from sneaking back in to the legislature? Assuming we actually care about that, of course... and their current unpopularity should accomplish that much. Yeah, I don't think it's a constitutional issue, except in that we should enshrine no special privileges for anyone but Hunger. But they currently control quite a few resources, should we, ah, reapportion them? The Springs should be a national resource, I think. The other wealth they've already gained from their control of them I'd leave alone, not for any moral reason but because it'd be a pain in the ass to take it and we don't have time. The case is less solid.
And there all the currently-operating laws. Probably more complicated than turning them off and then back on again. Should Hunger review a list of prisoners/crimes and yeet anything he disagrees with to start? Shouldn't base a legal system on one guy's gut feelings, but as far as clearing the field for the legislature without getting rid of "please no murder" it could be a rough solution.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
The general idea is that people living in an area probably have some kind of joint interest that would get lost in a system that only has 'at large' candidates rather than regional ones that are aware of the local issues. The 'at large' part is to make up for the issue of worthless votes that come about in areas where a certain party is dominate.
If they can convince the voters to vote for them no reason we should.
Hmm... as for the voting system itself.... No voting system is perfect. All of them with more than 2 candidates are doomed to break at least one fairness criteria. So let's just accept that. How about some kind of ranked choice voting, so your vote matters even after your 1st preference is eliminated, and allowing people to vote their 1st choice even when that candidate has o real hope of winning the overall vote. Much less open to abuse than the US system, for example.
That combination pretty much takes care of voting, so that leaves us with everything else - how many branches of government, how do they interact, what are the limitations and powers of the government?
will408914
(slouching towards bethlehem)
- Location
- California
Hmm... the issue is that, with their level of resources, it will be significantly easier for the old ruling families to take and hold power than anyone else, forming an effective hereditary aristocracy. We need some way to prevent that.
[X] Constitutional Design
[X] The Elementalists
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Publicly funded campaigns, no personal money. Not perfect but should help considerably. Term limits probably aren't helpful here.
To what extant though can we prevent this 'public' funded campaigns into bassicly puppet goverements of those with reasources? where the one voted is bassicly a puppet for the one donating money?
Do we just hope for the best that by the time we come back it's a functioning?
Edit: Probably should note i'm shit at offering solutions to problems in real life so i understand if this politics shit is hard on you.
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Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
All of the money comes from Hunger, therefore nobody is a puppet of anyone but us, which is 100% okay obviously. But then Hunger would have to have money. Damn, those "minor nation's currency" comments are biting him now. :s
I guess the public money has to go through the hands of a non-corrupt official for this to work, shouldn't be a different problem at least.
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Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Looks like some people saw the politics and ran, not wanting to screw up an entire country. Pssh, just make a constitution out of ignorance and crayons, it's working for me so far.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Hmm.
So for citizen's rights: Probably best to have something similar to the US bill of rights. It isn't perfect but acts as a good foundation to start with. We're trying to do away with involuntary service so that should be added as one of the points as well, of course. That leaves us with something like
So for citizen's rights: Probably best to have something similar to the US bill of rights. It isn't perfect but acts as a good foundation to start with. We're trying to do away with involuntary service so that should be added as one of the points as well, of course. That leaves us with something like
- Freedom of speech/religion/press
- Ownership of weapons/right to ones own magic
- No involuntary quartering of soldiers
- The right to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures. Aka law enforcement has limits.
- Double jeopardy: No being charged with the same crime time after time until a conviction is obtained.
- Speedy, public trials. Free Lawyers, as needed. Define need loosely.
- Civil suits can also be by jury, for any nontrivial amount.
- Penalties must match the degree of the crime.
- No draft, or forced recruitment of any kind.
- No requirements aside from age to vote. Age TBA.
- Any power not directly prescribed by this documents falls back on the local governments or the people, respectively.
Publicly funded voting systems do not have donors. All the money comes from the government. All serious contenders (everyone that can pass a certain threshold) get the same amount. How the spend it is up to them.
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"All political matters at the highest level shall be decided by means of a card game devised by Lord Hunger and his..." here the man pauses, murmuring in confusion, before continuing with "Princess Regent ~Pretty☆Gisena~ ?"
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Man, it's been a while since I've read Carroll, but this saying slots neatly into the Manifest Realm. 'Travel far under fair skies' also implies the wish that your friend not wander into the Orcwaste. Sensible advice that Jiko will waste no time in disobeying!
The madman, he actually went and did it, pose and all. With how much time All Might spends telling people to not be afraid, you'd think he was an angel or something. The Herobowl hype is real, though. The paragons of two different species enter, only one leaves; get your tickets today. Manifest Dome... because there can be only one!
I had a brief idea about coopting the Prophecy of the Hero for Jiko's own ends, becoming the savior dreamed of by the masses rather than the doom feared by the Oracle. Of course, Jiko flexed on that idea about as hard as he did that final orc. Imagine just showing up and outright admitting you're here to slaughter the savior of mankind, look at the balls on this lad. Since that's actually possible, maybe it's time to experiment with Hagakure's Quirk...
[JI] I Would Like A Job
[KO] Class Reunion
What a disgustingly responsible combination. Employment, societal status, institutional knowledge, and most importantly: grant money. All the trappings of the civilization he left behind. What does it say about Jiko that he gravitates toward such things when given the power to discard civilization like a caterpillar emerging from its chrysalis, proving false the quaint aphorism that 'no man is an island'? Still, while findross abrades away the rough edges of fantasy, preventing Duke Beleriad's holdings from smelling of sewage and providing innumerable quality-of-life benefits, Jiko's knowledge could do a lot of good. You thought this was a muscle wizard story, but it was me,
Quirk Crimes are fine too. I'm not too conversant in BnHA, but here are a few ideas: Shiozaki's Vines + Jiro's Jacks, for prehensile hair that generates organ-liquefying vibrations on contact, goes well with Nagamasa Mora if Jiko's got him. Kuroiro (the other Vanta) + Thirteen to become an anthropomorphic black hole, or maybe Kuroiro + Tokoyami + Kirishima for control of a hardened Dark Shadow. Kendo + Kaibara + Shoji for extruding giant drills to pierce the heavens. The list goes on, if becoming a Quirk Criminal is this easy I can see how All for One got started...
Anyway, part of me wants Jiko to turtle and study the Praxis in Helbersham, so he can start assembling his anti-Jotarun build. Might as well get the exhaustion over with in a situation that's relatively safe. The militia would provide a Dutiful early warning system at minimum even if they can't do much to impede actual orcs, an ironic reflection of the village's role in Joanian civilization. Or Jiko could embark on a glorious journey of Self-Mastery as a Lone Ranger. Why not imitate the orcs themselves by refining himself in the fiery crucible of battle, where all true heroes are forged? I can already feel the temptation to swap mounting.
[X] Constitutional Design
[X] None
We are apparently doing this, so let's do it right. What's the point of ideologically motivated reform if the old regime is replaced by a system aimed at our aggrandizement? How half-hearted and hypocritical. We can freely criticize the choices of the previous government from the vantage point provided by our power, but they had strong incentives to inculcate patriotic values in their Surgecrafters, to bind the Sovereignty's limited stable of superhumans to the national interest by any means necessary. The survival of their civilization was literally at stake. What are a few veiled threats and backroom bargains in the face of that?
But as ever, "the means of the forefathers become the ends of modernity." As the twig is bent, so grows the tree. Nations rot from the head down. If Hunger truly intends to transpose his ideal society from the canvas of his mind to reality, he shouldn't rely on a handful of supernaturally capable nobles to provide policy. His opinion of nobility's been made clear on numerous occasions, and in the absence of Blood's Ringbearer revoking it, Ennoblement is hereditary. Also, the Apocryphal Curse will totally assassinate any load-bearing Ennobled administrators. A comprehensive constitution drafted by a superhuman mind is more reliable in the long term.
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Is this strictly necessary in a non-federal system? The Sovereignty doesn't have many far-flung provinces and they don't face the US early issue of being 13 countries in a trench coat.
TwistedJester
Tired Lurker King
- Location
- Hell
I just hope that superhuman intelligence, wisdom, and Rank will basically smooth over anything we make.
I'm not sure whether actually building in rights to possession of weapons / magic would actually work in a real society though. Surgecrafting has absurd scale after all and if one of these kids goes bonkers and just blows up, we could see entire city blocks of the sovereignty being blown away. Also, why would we want voting as a right? The natural consolidation of power and importance is already concentrated among the High Elementalists and Elixir springs so wouldn't it be simpler to just Ennoble those Surgecrafters who are philosophically aligned with our ideals?
It seems like voting would become a complex issue in the long-run. How would the Sovereignty voting for an elected official have that official compete against the power and competence of Ennobled individuals or just buffing-type Elementalists? The Sovereignty is an Empire offshoot after all, not a Republic subsidiary so it seems like it'd make more sense to have a centralized government that prioritizes specific civil rights while political power might be given to those competent and of a suitable nature to form part of the ruling body.
It seems like voting would become a complex issue in the long-run. How would the Sovereignty voting for an elected official have that official compete against the power and competence of Ennobled individuals or just buffing-type Elementalists? The Sovereignty is an Empire offshoot after all, not a Republic subsidiary so it seems like it'd make more sense to have a centralized government that prioritizes specific civil rights while political power might be given to those competent and of a suitable nature to form part of the ruling body.
So I don't have any particular feelings about this vote. My Walls of Myth failed in the end so I'm a bit bitter about our build looking like using a simple almighty, albeit effective, reality warping blood bending sledgehammer and not have any sort of exotic and weirder abilities. On the other hand the demolition of the Opalescent Tower ought to upgrade the Evening Sky so there is that. In the end I hope that we visit the Wall after the Ber duel/Tyrant death. In any case here are my thoughts and speculation about the choices.
Lays down a foundation for future rule that if succesful compunds with future success and makes an effective first lesson in rulership. Its easier to destroy and harder to create and starting now would help us once we start making headways into conquering the Human Sphere. Afterall it would probably piss the Accursed if we cause suffering in such a huge scale because we failed in leading them. On the other hand this might fail. In that case we might still gain experience in bereaucracy and leadership but might penalize our Crown Rank gains, leave them temporarily in shambles as we complete our other more pressing objectives and might make future actions with them easier or harder depending on how much we fail.
A stop gap measure but sufficient for the time being while we need to acquire the Huntress' Moon target and duel Ber. The main point here is that it automatically succeeds in doing the basics of what we want. We can and will come back to properly set things with less pressure, more time and stats (Rank, Intelligence, Wits, Wisdom).
The benefits of more loyal and powerful Elementalist are manifold but lies heavily on the martial side. Whether as solar system wide superweapons on foot, deployment of strategic scale stealth or mental buffs and mass production of exotic materials, the powers of Surgecraft is possibly one of the best magic systems to affect entire worlds whether for their good or ill. Being able to produce what are near essentially power/potential hybrid EFB minions even rarely is undeniably this options greatest strength. Even after we leave to another universe, the Elixir Sovereign can reign as one of the superpowers in the Voyaging Realm. And even though it does not have faster Artificing time for Gisena, it does have more Imaginary Element to tinker with in offer which is a hidden bonus.
I like this one because of the basis that it preserve the substance and possibly unlock again the same named EFB, the Elixir. Researching its properties and a way to make its supply longer or possibly indefinitely will extend the Sovereignity's lifespan and use to Hunger much more. Engaging in trade allows options other than purely military to combat the enroachment of other civilized powers. No one afterall wants to see their enemies gain access to a powerful healing source, able to keep their greatest champions and monsters in tip top shape and send them into the fray over and over again. Being at a crossroads in such a place as the Voyaging Realm, its possible to attract all sorts of people like adventurers, merchants and other travellers to recruit. Not needing to assault a fortified place to acquire rare resources, power systems and artifacts is defininitely alluring for those who don't want to risk our character's life. On the other hand, extremely dangerous beast like the Rotbeast and Typhonmiele couldn't or wouldn't care about treaties and will attack. We know this because the option to take the Inner Circle populace mentions being able to use them as ablative shields for Apocryphal procs.
Quite possibly not worth it. A single Arete award to prop up a now Apocryphal attracting kingdom is not a fair exchange. We will not survive and prosper if we don't actually harvest the fruits of our work. There has to be a limit to altruism.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Hm, and unlike real life, we can address the actually having enough lawyer issue supernaturally with Ennobled public defenders or somesuch.
Can't crib too much from real life for this one, what with all the wizards and giant monsters running around. Whatever the Sovereignty already for weapons had is probably a better model, assuming minimal dickery (that's a big assumption tbf).
Everyone is entitled to a gigantic laser cann- Ah, fuck. The weapons are created by automated factories, so that's not a farcical thing to say. Lots of things is automated in sci-fi land, that changes things. Labor is fuzzy, FALGSC is now more attractive to the extent of the automation.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Probably not. I added it as a just-in-case measure.
One idea I got for how to handle surgecrafters in the military is to enforce a licensing scheme, where surges require different levels of license depending on what you are doing with them.
The higher levels of license should require military training and service, both for safety in them actually using their surges and to keep the country stable without requiring a draft that may breed significant resentment.
Rihaku
The Internet
An interesting dilemma!
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Probably the better idea. We can't go with weapon-barring systems due to things like the rotbeast and the inevitable other monsters that show up, and the fact that surges showing up in people appears to be random.
We can't guarantee competent and non-corrupt individuals ending up in those seats, and in the real world at least democracy has proven to be the best way to handle keeping things somewhat functional without massive shifts in competence caused by someone's incompetent favorite nephew taking over.
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TwistedJester
Tired Lurker King
- Location
- Hell
I honestly feel that voting shouldn't be a thing for most high level offices here as the whole point of a benevolent dictatorship'a role in deciding the office holders of high level positions is to only choose those loyal and able rather than popular and charismatic and hoping that they are competent and loyal to their leader.
Now, I know this is a radical proposal, but... why not Ennoble everyone when we have the time? Even in Númenor, power flowed from those with the greatest concentration of Elven blood. But here in the Sovereignty, Hunger has a chance to create a society distributes its superhuman capabilities in a truly egalitarian fashion. Surgecrafters aside (for now), we can give all citizens the same tier of boost! One perk of high-Rank Bloodcasting is that it massively streamlines such efforts, and once the first pass is done the process is hereditary and virtually self-sustaining.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
We don't really need to worry about loyalty to us. We'll have ADS long before the shine wears off.