That's not true at all. The increase in power that Quickening + Cut provides alongside no arete option of Ruinous Valor in the future means that we will actually be powerful enough to be capable of saving for the Ring. It's explicitly the most powerful option here and it has excellent scaling and synergy with no arete picks.

Greater power means more security which means actually giving us the ability to go for potential types.
*The safest overall option, though not the highest short-term power
It has more power than Saint but is less safe. It says so in Saint's description. Saint provides a similar if lesser level of power to Quickening, has the full power or forms to fall back on, can also take Ruinous Valor for mostly the same effect and most importantly for saving arete for the ring, doesn't open up a bunch more blood options that are explicitly superior due to +progression.
*The safest overall option, though not the highest short-term power
 
It has more power than Saint but is less safe. It says so in the description for it. Saint provides a similar if lesser level of power to Quickening, has the full power or forms to fall back on, can also take Ruinous Valor for mostly the same effect and most importantly for saving arete for the ring, doesn't open up a bunch more blood options that are explicitly superior due to +progression.
It's only safer during the small vulnerability period when we are in ghost form. Hell, the option has been described as basically giving us mini-FOR in flesh form!

Quickening + Ruinous Valor has greater synergy than the alternative due to the combo giving higher strenght to scale Power of Ruin off! The compounding effects of the choices should not be underestimated!
 
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@LordOfMurder Mass-tagging is kind of rude.

I do prefer Star-Saint to Bloodslayer; why spend 7-Arete on an anti-synergistic option when Evening Gown is totally fine? Exhausted is a better debuff then Paralysis if we can take it too.

Still, I'm waiting for War to be properly eliminated first. Once that happens I'm switching.
 
It's only safer during the small vulnerability period when we are in ghost form. Hell, the option has been described as basically giving us mini-FOR in flesh form!

Quickening + Ruinous Valor has greater synergy than the alternative due to the combo giving higher strenght to scale Power of Ruin off! The compounding effects of the choices should not be underestimated!
Yes it's safer during the most dangerous time while we're in the most dangerous place. That makes it safer overall. There's no point in picking an immediate power option for safety if you're not actually safe when you need it the most!

Quickening only gets 3 extra strength compared to Saint so the difference isn't that big. It's mostly stronger because it has 6 more con and 4 wits so it's better at spamming Cuts. That doesn't matter if we die because we were ambushed in second form with -15% to physical actions and only cuts to protect us!

@LordOfMurder Mass-tagging is kind of rude.

I do prefer Star-Saint to Bloodslayer; why spend 7-Arete on an anti-synergistic option when Evening Gown is totally fine? Exhausted is a better debuff then Paralysis if we can take it too.

Still, I'm waiting for War to be properly eliminated first. Once that happens I'm switching.
I wasn't aware it was a breach of etiquette? It was the easiest way to alert all the War voters.

Fair enough but since this is already a consolidation vote and there are essentially only three options in contention Rihaku may choose to skip eliminating options and go straight to the update.
 
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Just reiterating for all the Not-Dying faction members out there that Saint is indeed safer than Bloodslayer. Isn't survival more important than faster Progression for you all? There's no saying what we will encounter in the Inner Temple, or what the consequences of our little incursion here would be; why not maximize the chances we can survive whatever comes?

Bloodmight kind puts all the eggs in one basket in this regard. It's a very good basket, don't get me wrong, but it puts most of it in overwhelming offense during our first form. A more balanced spread of offence, defense and utility the Saint offers leaves us much better prepared to face whatever may come.
 
Just reiterating for all the Not-Dying faction members out there that Saint is indeed safer than Bloodslayer. Isn't survival more important than faster Progression for you all? There's no saying what we will encounter in the Inner Temple, or what the consequences of our little incursion here would be; why not maximize the chances we can survive whatever comes?

Bloodmight kind puts all the eggs in one basket in this regard. It's a very good basket, don't get me wrong, but it puts most of it in overwhelming offense during our first form. A more balanced spread of offence, defense and utility the Saint offers leaves us much better prepared to face whatever may come.
It also comes with massive increase in Con, halving wound penalty and tripled regeneration from Blood Ring. That's an massive increase in survivability. More so than what Evening gown gives to Hunger I would say!

The point of the option is that it's an perfect combo of potential, power, synergy and empowering our allies even more eventually! No need to sacrifice one of them for the other to an great extent when you can get all of them in great amount!
 
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[X] Star-Blade Saint - Exhaustion, Echo of the Forebear, Evening Gown (+AGI, +CHA), A Thousand Cuts
[X] Speak to Letrizia

Going with Saint for now, while I do love quickening and believe it works wonderfully in concert with paralysis, Evening Gown feels like it is rarer and may not come up again as soon as quickening. Beyond that it feels like a good opportunity to give some attention to the mantle and I think it would be really cool to see further similar developments cloaking our closest companions in starlight seems like a great aesthetic. Of course it does spend our Arete and I am still holding out for Gardener's Hallow so I could be convinced away if others are willing to commit to it or can convince me that another option will make us more likely to actually take it if it comes up again.
 
Ayt. Since this is vote switching, someone hmu with a copy paste. If it still makes sense, then I might get swayed again for the eventual mandatory half time phase 2 betrayal.
Scratch that. A quick key-note explanation for why it's better would be good.
 
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Ayt. Since this is vote switching, someone hmu with a copy paste. If it still makes sense, then I might get swayed again for the eventual mandatory half time phase 2 betrayal.
Scratch that. A quick key-note explanation for why it's better would be good.
Saint is the least likely to die.
Second strongest power.
Better at social.
Get's Gisena buffs and improves our teamwork with her.
Stats, Cuts and attack speed.
Doesn't distract from ring with new tech tree
Debuff wears off quicker and doesn't need options to mitigate
 
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[X] Star-Blade Saint - Exhaustion, Echo of the Forebear, Evening Gown (+AGI, +CHA), A Thousand Cuts
[X] Speak to Letrizia

Ayt. Hedging against G-bae dying. Not enough power in me to sally for War at this juncture. Will at least keep our current battle tactics usable without overly worried about a stray arrow breaking everything apart.
 
It also comes with massive increase in Con, halving wound penalty and tripled regeneration from Blood Ring. That's an massive increase in survivability. More so than what Evening gown gives to Hunger I would say!

The point of the option is that it's an perfect combo of potential, power, synergy and empowering our allies even more eventually! No need to sacrifice one of them for the other to an great extent when you can get all of them in great amount!
Considering how much these people use Soul Evocations; I'm not sure just more CON and regen is a qualitative increase in survivability better than just Nullifying their stuff. There's plenty of bad touch effects, defense ignoring attacks, and just straight up field debuffs that are possible to encounter. Just the Magus had invisibility, teleportation, a direct soul attack with the Abhorrent Word, a gravity field, etc- and even the Archer had a paralyzing effect on his arrows. There's more to defense than just more Stats; Saint is the safest option for a reason. Add that to a very respectable amount of power with the Pseudo-Grace and Thousand Cuts and I much prefer it.
 
Ayt. Since this is vote switching, someone hmu with a copy paste. If it still makes sense, then I might get swayed again for the eventual mandatory half time phase 2 betrayal.
Scratch that. A quick key-note explanation for why it's better would be good.
- Strongest increase in strenght, which means we can save arete for the Ring.
- Great potential by opening up further +progression blood based Advancement.
- Greatest synergy between Quickening + Thousand.
- More options for companion empowerment that will apply to all our friends!
- No arete options that can be taken in the future that has great synergy with the combo.
- It's the option that starts murderizing the fastest thus greater power growth and spending our time optimally before Apocryphal ends.
- Debuff can be removed in short order.
 
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Bloodslayer is the least likely to die after the extreme short term where we regain our body.
Strongest in power!
The Most Cunning! Though we don't get CHA, we get 4X Wits! Plus with Tyrants curse, our power is our social.
It may not focus on Gisena like Saint but Blood is the path to improving ALL of our teammates! Who knows, maybe we could unlock Quickening to all of our allies in the future!
The Stats! The Cunning! The Thousand Cuts! The Blood! Everything you would ever want!
 
We don't get Ring with either choice, because with these significant Arete investments, we commit to improving our immediate power instead of trying to (heh) reach for the moon. This isn't even going to put us anywhere near the level of strength we need to traverse the Inner Temple, so we'll need further investments to keep up. We're spending 14 Arete here. The only actual hope for getting the Ruling Ring soonish (assuming we don't die) is gated behind Heedless War.

Gisena-buff relies on the support of our teammate even more, - which is slowly becoming embarrassing, but to each their own, - yet this feels like a diversion from what really matters here - speed. We have a limited amount of time both because of Apocrypha and Gabrielle, and we've managed to maintain a relatively quick pace through the Temple. Yet Saint wastes a few days on Exhaustion and is simply slower to progress due to lesser power - one can try to talk around it, but it's right there in the options, just read and compare.

Remember, gotta go fast!
 
You don't want to vote for a build as well?

For people not voting to learn more about Gisena I don't think we can just dismiss her loyalty as just being because she's lost everyone and thinks we're strong. We've known each other for literally a week before she said"But wherever you decide to lead, I'll be by your side. Always." . That's a pretty big commitment to make on a hunch! Maybe there's more to it? How did the lesser remitance that brought her here work in the narrative anyway? Should the Accursed open a matchmaking service since he's apparently immensely skilled at it? Inquiring Gisena Fans want to know!

Given how there was popular support for hearing about Hunger's family recently you'd think more people would want him to reflect back on it as he does in the Gisena option.

Nah, the build votes fine either way right now. Talking to Letrezia is more interesting.
 
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Oof. I am afraid that in this juncture, I can offer very little respite.

My strongest argument: "Ffffffuck Magic" is going to be little use. Neither is "SORD. GUD." going to carry the day.

...Maybe I should revote to Heedless War again. A chicken leg had been sacrificed earlier today after all.
 
Bloodslayer is the least likely to die after the extreme short term where we regain our body.
Strongest in power!
The Most Cunning! Though we don't get CHA, we get 4X Wits! Plus with Tyrants curse, our power is our social.
It may not focus on Gisena like Saint but Blood is the path to improving ALL of our teammates! Who knows, maybe we could unlock Quickening to all of our allies in the future!
The Stats! The Cunning! The Thousand Cuts! The Blood! Everything you would ever want!
Mental Speed doesn't make us smarter, sadly. Neither does it makes us better at social.
Saint is actually the safest as I argued above as a large amount of our enemies effects can't be the defended through pure CON.
Where the heck are you all pulling this Quickening improves our allies stuff; especially when compared to an option that actually improves our allies?

Gisena-buff relies on the support of our teammate even more, - which is slowly becoming embarrassing, but to each their own, - yet this feels like a diversion from what really matters here - speed. We have a limited amount of time both because of Apocrypha and Gabrielle, and we've managed to maintain a relatively quick pace through the Temple. Yet Saint wastes a few days on Exhaustion and is simply slower to progress due to lesser power - one can try to talk around it, but it's right there in the options, just read and compare.
But the thing is we aren't pick-starved when it comes to the Ring- we are Arete starved. Any enemies that we kill that would qualify for the domains while we don't have the Arete is essentially wasted. So going back to grinding right now is actually a bad choice if you want the Ring; we have to Recoup our Arete first. Some days of rest can give the thread time to do exactly that. Speed is unnecessary at this juncture, especially if we hedge into maximum safety with Saint.
 
But the thing is we aren't pick-starved when it comes to the Ring- we are Arete starved. Any enemies that we kill that would qualify for the domains while we don't have the Arete is essentially wasted. So going back to grinding right now is actually a bad choice if you want the Ring; we have to Recoup our Arete first. Some days of rest can give the thread time to do exactly that. Speed is unnecessary at this juncture, especially if we hedge into maximum safety with Saint.
If you think we can afford to sit back and relax, then sure, I don't think there is anything I can say that will convince you to the murderblender side.

And the point of taking Quickening is that we focus on blood advancement, which can't be all Arete options. Heck, Arete is an extraneous resource, not something that is meant for regular enhancement. We've been spoiled by our significant Arete gains, but that's not actually something we're meant to take with every option. They're just so much more powerful that they've blotted out others. But with +Progression to blood, pure picks for the theme might become competitive, we only need to invest in it here.
 
Mental Speed doesn't make us smarter, sadly. Neither does it makes us better at social.
Saint is actually the safest as I argued above as a large amount of our enemies effects can't be the defended through pure CON.
Where the heck are you all pulling this Quickening improves our allies stuff; especially when compared to an option that actually improves our allies?
Wits will make us better at social, maybe not as much as pure CHA but it's still a good improvement.
Sure, they can't be beaten by pure CON, good thing Bloodslayer comes with lots of other stuff. Things Bloodslayer can't defeat and Saint can is very specific and narrow in my opinion.
I didn't say Quickening improves our allies, I said getting Quickening may open paths to granting it to our teammates. I also said Path of Blood is boosting all of our teammates.
 
The example given by Rihaku was the Numenorean's from Lord of the Rings who I think could also use magic?
Well, Tolkien didn't tend to write obviously magical effects. Rather, persons of sufficient skill and might could perform actions and craft wonders with supernatural results. Sing a song that stops fire and arrows. Make a blade that burns evil, and warns its user that such is approaching. Redirect a river because you asked, or have it suddenly burst into a roaring flood to stop intruders.

Wake up a tree and have it walk around and talk back. Build a ship that sails against the wind and laughs at hurricanes. Or one that flies, can sail to heaven, and become the dawnstar with the help of a shiny headwon ornament. That sort of thing.
 
Wits will make us better at social, maybe not as much as pure CHA but it's still a good improvement.
Sure, they can't be beaten by pure CON, good thing Bloodslayer comes with lots of other stuff. Things Bloodslayer can't defeat and Saint can is very specific and narrow in my opinion.
Ehh, if more time to think between actions was so amazing Quest characters would be supergeniuses. That's clearly not the case however.
Is the Magus something specific and narrow? Without Gisena we wouldn't even know he was there until he made a devastating alpha-strike that had a high-chance of killing us. Which would also render us incorporeal and therefore lose Quickening's benefits. Saint by improving all our forms, comes with much more safety.

And the point of taking Quickening is that we focus on blood advancement, which can't be all Arete options. Heck, Arete is an extraneous resource, not something that is meant for regular enhancement. We've been spoiled by our significant Arete gains, but that's not actually something we're meant to take with every option. They're just so much more powerful that they've blotted out others. But with +Progression to blood, pure picks for the theme might become competitive, we only need to invest in it here.
I didn't say Quickening improves our allies, I said getting Quickening may open paths to granting it to our teammates. I also said Path of Blood is boosting all of our teammates.
Can someone tell me where does it say that further Blood Advancements are locked behind Quickening. Hell, the very existence of Study the Ring implies otherwise. We aren't giving up advancing in Blood if we don't pick it here. The extra safety is far better than just more power in my view.
 
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