And this investment in Gown will likely give us more findross stuff in general; given our Pseudo-Grace. Compounding magic systems is something with Incredible power in these Quests and so getting another one may give far better returns than just more blood.
Star-Blade probably has synergies with getting Sorcery through Philosopher's Wreath, but I'm not sure we want to go there. It's another 7 Arete investment that takes us further from Ruling Ring or Once and Future. But both Bloodslayer and Star-Blade have the potential for death spirals built in, honestly. The former makes our first form tougher, but does nothing to buff the others except for taking A Thousand Cuts so it can stop showing up in our build votes, like a drunken uncle at a family reunion.

The latter's Pseudo-Grace lasts as long as the Evening Sky does, but we've seen that ablate away in the face of magic damage, and once it goes down we lose a huge chunk of strength and agility. We'd want to pick up Opalescence + Iridescence soon. Maybe even Pearlescence, but we don't have the funds for it. It's a shame Balance didn't get more play, Heedless seems too spicy for most voters' palates and the anti-synergy of Bloodslayer is painful.
 
There's a large difference "5-7 times stronger" and "17 times stronger". A very large one. Not to mention our Pseudo-Grace also gives Stats plus attack speed and we'd still have Thousand Cuts. The offensive gap isn't as large as you all make seem.
It.. is? It has 25+s, including 4 Wits which is incredibly important when fighting magic users and you need to think up the proper way to beat them in ~seconds.
I mean, if we get another option like the Magus stats aren't going to cut it. And the Psudo-Grace scales a well, it's just not as powerful. Battles aren't just people comparing their stats to each other here.
In a word: Speed Blitz and Alpha Strike.
Star-Blade probably has synergies with getting Sorcery through Philosopher's Wreath, but I'm not sure we want to go there. It's another 7 Arete investment that takes us further from Ruling Ring or Once and Future. But both Bloodslayer and Star-Blade have the potential for death spirals built in, honestly. The former makes our first form tougher, but does nothing to buff the others, except for taking A Thousand Cuts so it can stop showing up in our build votes, like a drunken uncle at a family reunion.

The latter's Pseudo-Grace lasts as long as the Evening Sky does, but we've seen that ablate away in the face of magic damage, and once it goes down we lose a huge chunk of strength and agility. We'd want to pick up Opalescence + Iridescence soon. Maybe even Pearlescence, but we don't have the funds for it. It's a shame Balance didn't get more play, Heedless seems too spicy for most voters' palates and the anti-synergy of Bloodslayer is painful.
On the non-synergy of Bloodslayer with our other forms, I think EFB might have a solution to that: Blood, essence of life is the conduit by which the essential is imposed onto reality. So then, could we not make it so our Second and Rage forms are a continuation of our fleshy forms, as we get more injured and more of our essential self is imposed on reality? Basically instead of discard flesh, then spirit, have the flesh fuse with the spirit, then with essence.

Again, if approval voting was on, Balance would be winning heavily by now! The power of compromise unleashed!
Balance is too bland for me. Even Star would be preferred to it.
 
Nah, I think it's fun too.


There's a large difference "5-7 times stronger" and "17 times stronger". A very large one. Not to mention our Pseudo-Grace also gives Stats plus attack speed and we'd still have Thousand Cuts. The offensive gap isn't as large as you all make seem.

But the option already enhances our teammates. There's no need to ask for evidence it can when it's staring at you in the face.

But Saint still gives us Stats and Thousand Cuts though, just not as much as Quickening. When it comes to hedging our bets Saint is much better in this regard.

I mean, if we get another option like the Magus stats aren't going to cut it. And the Psudo-Grace scales a well, it's just not as powerful. Battles aren't just people comparing their stats to each other here.


This is a Soul Evocation civ. A civ that draws its power from a magical Moon Ring. The density of magic using enemies is extremely high. We won't run out of them , I assure you.

We got Rage, so losing is an integral part of our strategy now!

Maybe still having scraps of the Evening Sky is much better than definitely not having Quickening. We also haven't died at all, we have just been using our Second Form a bunch. If we died, the quest would have ended already!
No, it's not. Rage is not something we want to use at all. It has bad psychological effects and Hunger is already in near-sucidal state currently.

It was something that allowed us to take more risks and we have successfully used it in that way.
 
[X] Study the Blood
[X] Bloodslayer


I'm super disappointed that we're not committing to getting the Ruling Ring. It'll probably take forever for us to get it at this rate. We've picked up, like what, 3 other 7 Arete options (the equivalent of Further Beyonds). If we spend more on 7 Arete options in the future, our chances of getting an EFB will become vanishingly slim.

In any case, since Heedless War doesn't have much chance, I'll fall back to my second choice. I do quite like the idea of Quickening elevating our physical form's power through conceptual augmentation of our essence and blood. That's a pretty compelling option and at least seems to integrate more closely to the aesthetic of the Ring of Blood (even though, this means our Second Stage is essentially a straight downgrade from our normal state). Hopefully, if we ever somehow accrue enough Arete to purchase our Final Form, this will end up benefiting us.

Star-Blade Saint is just kind of uninteresting to me; it only patches up holes in our build and doesn't particularly resonate with me thematically-speaking. I'm ambivalent on Gisena and have little desire to spend Arete in a direction that mainly buffs her and provides minimal progress towards Total Eclipse. I don't like the idea of spreading the thread's already tenuous attention over multiple EFBs and Star-Blade Saint seems it will just cause our build to become even more inconsistent. Overall, the Ring is simply more intriguing to me in a narrative-sense.
 
What the hell, might as well vote for Saint at this point; War is done for.

[X] Study the Blood
[X] Star-Blade Saint


For the record I don't see Saint as a commitment to Total Eclipse, especially since Ruling Ring is much closer anyway. Neither of the options in contention gets us much closer to an EFB in my view.

Balance is too bland for me. Even Star would be preferred to it.
I would have no problem with Saint if Bloodslayer loses but I hate Balance. Balance is for the weak and Thanos!
Not sure. I'd be willing to go there, but from what I understand, a big part of the Gown voterbase want to make Gisena better, which Balance doesn't really do.
Well, RIP. I guess it was a good try.

In a word: Speed Blitz and Alpha Strike.
I think we have never had the initiative in deciding our encounters in this place. We were always the ones that got attacked. I wouldn't rely on it.
No, it's not. Rage is not something we want to use at all. It has battle psychological effects and Hunger is already in near-sucidal stat currently.

It was something that allowed us to take more risks and we have successfully used it in that way.
Ahh, the eternal question, "why did we pick Rage anyway?". This is getting stupid frankly.
 
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We'll be stuck fighting mages. It's specialized, and we all know how inconsistent this thread can be.. the next vote might well be to face off against an enemy to which Nullity matters not/very little
We were just fighting an Archer, whose arrows stopped being able to pierce our defenses once robbed of their magical backing. Because we currently we have a defensive set up that heavily heavily benefits from turning even magic tinged attacks into just physical force even if the physical force us greater.
 
I do not understand all the love for bloodslayer.

It is explicitly less safe than Star and while somewhat better at leveraging power it comes at the nasty price of not being able to use our second form because doing so will totally kill us.
 
I do not understand all the love for bloodslayer.

It is explicitly less safe than Star and while somewhat better at leveraging power it comes at the nasty price of not being able to use our second form because doing so will totally kill us.
1. Consistency with previous vote option.
a. Possibility of applying the Quickening bonuses to the other forms.
2. Ungodly stats.
3. Massive amounts of power compared to Star.
 
1. Consistency with previous vote option.
a. Possibility of applying the Quickening bonuses to the other forms.
2. Ungodly stats.
3. Massive amounts of power compared to Star.
1. What? It's literally the least consistent with other vote options.
a. Rihaku has stated that isn't happening for a long time if it ever does.
2. No argument.
3. Not really? Star is quite strong itself.
 
[X] Speak to Letrizia
[X] Star-Blade Saint


Never been too much of a fan of Gisena personally and I mean, just looking at my previous votes kinda confirms it, and I completely agree that Star-Blade is mostly non-synergistic with our build or plans (well it covers some bases which we really should have a few votes ago, but that's it). What I would never vote for though, is a boost that is completely anti-synergistic with our build. Want to thin out our Second and Rage Form safety net by powering up only our base form (since the challenge level required for upgrades will raise up tremendously)? Maybe assure that whevener our flesh body dies because of plain unluck, we're stuck with waiting for a full day before we resume farming? Vote Bloodslayer, it has everything you need and more!

Also relying on our team mates so that we can kill things greater than our combined power level (cause that's what a good team strategy leads to) is not embarassing, thank you very much. And I'm certainly convinced that they won't feel like we're holding them down, considering we would be the reason they are getting as strong as they are. I wouldn't mind an Hunger who takes the time to boost his comrades and relays more on team strategies rather than lone wolfing every challenge that he meets, and I'm afraid Quickening would actually lead to that.

Taking Quickening will almost certainly lead to two things which i'm pretty sure a wide majority of the userbase wouldn't like: First, as Gisena falls behind our power level we'll have to leave her behind for fights, since the risks of her dying would get just too high (good for Letrizia I guess, she kinda needs the company). Second, any choice which would patch the gaping anti-synergistic hole in our build would need to take precedence and by the time we have either a Quickening which works in all forms or some other alternative, I'm pretty convinced we'll be far behind in our plan to obtain the One True Ring. So... For those who are voting for Bloodslayer as a second choice, could you reconsider your decision to support something which will both render some of our previous choices pointless and possibly set us back so much in our future plans?
 
1. What? It's literally the least consistent with other vote options.
a. Rihaku has stated that isn't happening for a long time if it ever does.
2. No argument.
3. Not really? Star is quite strong itself.
1. Directly consistent with our last build vote.
a. Eventually.
3. Stated to be the strongest build in the blurbs after its windows of weakness (which can be FORed) closes.

Mostly since I just want us to move on and get this temple plotline moved on ahead (without %death here and there again) pronto if we aren't rushing Ruling Ring.
 
Never been too much of a fan of Gisena personally and I mean, just looking at my previous votes kinda confirms it, and I completely agree that Star-Blade is mostly non-synergistic with our build or plans
I have to say I don't really see it. It gives a decent power boost, helps Gisena, and will stack with whatever future options we take. It's true it isn't leading down a path we intend to take, but... that isn't really needed.
 
I have to say I don't really see it. It gives a decent power boost, helps Gisena, and will stack with whatever future options we take. It's true it isn't leading down a path we intend to take, but... that isn't really needed.
If it isn't leading down a path we are going to take, that's even worse! It's unsynergistic with future votes, and if we want to complete and beat this damned temple which Hunger is already fully committed to, then we need a lot of short term power.
 
1. Directly consistent with our last build vote.
a. Eventually.
3. Stated to be the strongest build in the blurbs after its windows of weakness (which can be FORed) closes.

Mostly since I just want us to move on and get this temple plotline moved on ahead (without %death here and there again) pronto if we aren't rushing Ruling Ring.
I can agree with that objective. I just think Bloodslayer is a worse method to go about doing it, as it is explicitly less safe than Star. Strength =/= Safety.

Our last build vote was to go for the ring. It's a side branch at best.

Eventually doesn't matter if we die before we get there.

If it isn't leading down a path we are going to take, that's even worse! It's unsynergistic with future votes, and if we want to complete and beat this damned temple which Hunger is already fully committed to, then we need a lot of short term power.
That is not what Synergy is, god damn it! Did someone change the definition over the last day or something?
 
I can agree with that objective. I just think Bloodslayer is a worse method to go about doing it, as it is explicitly less safe than Star. Strength =/= Safety.

Our last build vote was to go for the ring. It's a side branch at best.

Eventually doesn't matter if we die before we get there.


That is not what Synergy is, god damn it! Did someone change the definition over the last day or something?
I want us to be able to go for tough mons without the spectre of dying/losing. Strength helps with that.

As for Synergy, well, it just means options which work well with other options. If Star does not work well with future build options, then it's a lack of synergy which will hurt us in the future.
 
As for Synergy, well, it just means options which work well with other options. If Star does not work well with future build options, then it's a lack of synergy which will hurt us in the future.
I never said it wouldn't work well with future build options... And, in fact, I explicitly think it will work well with them. Not everything needs to be a chain to work well together, see Fall of Night and A Thousand Cuts for example.
 
I have to say I don't really see it. It gives a decent power boost, helps Gisena, and will stack with whatever future options we take. It's true it isn't leading down a path we intend to take, but... that isn't really needed.
"Not leading down a path we intend to take" is what I refer as non-synergistic. It doesn't go against our previous build choices, but doesn't provide a real benefit either. Though from the perspective of our story choices, it kinda makes sense after the time spent focusing on her recently.

I like to define a difference between non-synergistic and anti-synergistic votes, with the former being just not too focused on our previous choices (and honestly, this is the majority of the stuff that ends up winning) and the latter actually going against our previous choices and/or future plans (usually those are flexible, though obtaining in the short/medium term the Ruling Ring is kinda a must at this point).
 
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