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There is no emotion... (A Jedi Order Quest)

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Voikirium said:
"I am aware, Brianna." Atris turns away, towards Bastila, her former Pupil. "Are you well?"
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Wait, she is? Could've sworn Atris never had a padawan, according to the Exile?

Voikirium said:
she's not thirsty for Meetra the same way she is for the male Exile.
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Why the fuck not? :V

Not sure if this is an allowable writein, but...

[x] Accept the help of Atris, Last Master of the Fool's Council
-[x] Padawan to Visas Marr, she who knows most that salvation is never beyond hope.
 
The Englanderish said:
Wait, she is? Could've sworn Atris never had a padawan, according to the Exile?
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I do not remember this conversation.

The Englanderish said:
Why the fuck not? :V
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Meetra already has to deal with Atton and Scion wanting her. Are you sure you want to toss Atris into that particular pile of batshittery as well? Also cause because I like the symmetry of that, a little.

The Englanderish said:
-[x] Padawan to Visas Marr, she who knows most that salvation is never beyond hope.
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Visas is currently tossed into the great unknown by the Ring.
Voikirium said:
We've found it, and it's pretty damn impressive. It's...well, it's a giant ring, with an at least Coruscant radius, bearing a false habitat and plenty of Czerka goons.

More importantly, it's leaking all the telltale radiation and energy of a hyperdrive, and a big one at that. It's going somewhere.

Naturally, we're about to go through.
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Voikirium said:
I feel I have made grave errors :cry:
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Meh, a minor conversation can be set aside in the face of interesting character interpretations.

Speaking of, who is Atris? What'd she do wrong? Is it greedy of me to ask for another crash-course or should I just try and google it?
 
Fezzes said:
Meh, a minor conversation can be set aside in the face of interesting character interpretations.

Speaking of, who is Atris? What'd she do wrong? Is it greedy of me to ask for another crash-course or should I just try and google it?
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Atris was a pain the ass council member who survived the fall and established a jedi academy on Taris. When Meetra and company found her she was close to falling to the dark side after listening to all of the Sith holocrons she had gathered in her private rooms. She blamed Meetra for leaving the order and going against the code which was one of the reasons Atris voted to exile Meetra from the order in the first place.
 
Fezzes said:
Meh, a minor conversation can be set aside in the face of interesting character interpretations.

Speaking of, who is Atris? What'd she do wrong? Is it greedy of me to ask for another crash-course or should I just try and google it?
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Most of her applicable backstory for this thread is here.

And then she goes kind of batshit.
 
Short version: Atris was a haughty, self-righteous Jedi Master who believed that ivory-tower-knowledge was all that mattered. She never had a Padawan, never tried to share her knowledge...and when the Jedi Conference on Katarr got eaten by Nihilus, she hoarded Jedi (and Sith) knowledge and trained dumb-brute-guards but purposefully avoided them being Force-Sensitive. She failed with Brianna (who actually could feel the Force), who she tried to push to the bottom of the pecking order. Then when the Jedi Exile passed through, Brianna was sent as a spy. The Exile detected Brianna's potential and guided her to switching sides. I think there was a fall to the dark side there, but that might not have lasted.

I don't trust her. I don't like her. I also don't see that we are exactly spoiled for choice, and I think that putting her under heavy supervision is probably the best.
 
Barondoctor said:
I don't trust her. I don't like her. I also don't see that we are exactly spoiled for choice, and I think that putting her under heavy supervision is probably the best.
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If Atris had fallen to the dark side again Atton would not be asking her to come back and then asking us to welcome her. Atton has felt the dark side IIRC and knows what to look for so I think we can trust Atris at least that much but yes I do agree with you that she needs to be put under Heavy Supervision if we bring her back.
 
To be honest, given the things some of our most respected members have done in their pasts - Atton, Bastilla, Juhani, Bao-Dur - I find this pearl-clutching over Atris a bit weird. Yes, she fucked up and ate some humble pie, but she's admitted as much and actively worked to redeem herself since. I don't think it's especially worthwile holding her past over her, any more than it would be getting cooties over Bastilla's past hubris and fall.
 
The Englanderish said:
To be honest, given the things some of our most respected members have done in their pasts - Atton, Bastilla, Juhani, Bao-Dur - I find this pearl-clutching over Atris a bit weird.
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Did she actually work towards redemption? Who can say?

The thing that's different here is simple: young and dumb and emotional is one thing.
Atton: screwed up young. Working for a cause.
Bastila: screwed up young, lots of pressure on. Working for a cause. Otherwise excellent record.
Juhani: screwed up young, her master was using it as a training exercise (?!). Otherwise excellent record.
Bao-Dur: did the thing and almost immediately regretted it and worked for doing rebuilding work since.

Atris: old enough to be a master. Carrying authority instead of subject to it. Continued pattern of self over others.

She's pretty much totally different. Flirting with the dark as a youth is not the same as having a longer affair with it as an older person.
 
Barondoctor said:
Did she actually work towards redemption? Who can say?

The thing that's different here is simple: young and dumb and emotional is one thing.
Atton: screwed up young. Working for a cause.
Bastila: screwed up young, lots of pressure on. Working for a cause. Otherwise excellent record.
Juhani: screwed up young, her master was using it as a training exercise (?!). Otherwise excellent record.
Bao-Dur: did the thing and almost immediately regretted it and worked for doing rebuilding work since.

Atris: old enough to be a master. Carrying authority instead of subject to it. Continued pattern of self over others.

She's pretty much totally different. Flirting with the dark as a youth is not the same as having a longer affair with it as an older person.
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I'm not sure there should be some magical age-gate on redemption. Emotions don't disappear with age, older people aren't immune to forces of pressure, and ultimately her interactions after the Exile makes her see the error of her ways seem to be fairly genuine. Add in the fact that her fall only happened after her greater impact on the galaxy stopped happening, in near-isolation on Telos. Her actions affected people, yes, but a fairly small pool of them and the 'continued pattern' only set in, again, after her isolation on Telos started, and ended with LS Exile sparing her.

It's certainly possible she's been faking her wandering this whole time, but so could have Atton in his early days, or Visas, and they weren't saved by scorn. Being wary is fair; being overbearing about it however, isn't.

Bastilla's 'excellent record' is spending most of kotor 1 arrogantly moralising, cracking and nearly helping Malak win the war and then retiring to have a kid until she was found again.
Atton fucking murdered people, tortured them, as part of an actual factual death squad - he was an adult, a soldier, a hunter of people. That's not something you can just brush away as 'screwed up young' if we're applying the same standards as Atris. And we gave him a chance.
 
The Englanderish said:
I'm not sure there should be some magical age-gate on redemption. Emotions don't disappear with age, older people aren't immune to forces of pressure, and ultimately her interactions after the Exile makes her see the error of her ways seem to be fairly genuine. Add in the fact that her fall only happened after her greater impact on the galaxy stopped happening, in near-isolation on Telos. Her actions affected people, yes, but a fairly small pool of them and the 'continued pattern' only set in, again, after her isolation on Telos started, and ended with LS Exile sparing her.

It's certainly possible she's been faking her wandering this whole time, but so could have Atton in his early days, or Visas, and they weren't saved by scorn. Being wary is fair; being overbearing about it however, isn't.

Bastilla's 'excellent record' is spending most of kotor 1 arrogantly moralising, cracking and nearly helping Malak win the war and then retiring to have a kid until she was found again.
Atton fucking murdered people, tortured them, as part of an actual factual death squad - he was an adult, a soldier, a hunter of people. That's not something you can just brush away as 'screwed up young' if we're applying the same standards as Atris. And we gave him a chance.
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There's no magical age gate on redemption. Being a fool can happen at any age. Recognizing you were a fool can happen at any age. Behavioral change before one gets set in their ways is definitely easier when they are young. Atris hid in isolation out of fear that she could be next and arrogance that nobody else could do anything about it because she couldn't.

Wary without overbearing is fair.

Atton was a screwed up young adult. The exile gave him a chance and he proved out that he had earned it.
Bastila was a screwed up young adult. Turned into it by the council and the pressure and stuff. She at the very least kept a finger on the pulse of events, if meeting Carth at Citadel Station around the time Nihilus went there is any indication; retired but potentially available.

Atris has been screwed up longer; she declined Revan's call to action and then hated herself for it and hated everyone who accepted it. She kept a trophy from the time when the Exile returned to answer the Council's summons. Atris is what Bastila could have become, if not captured and tortured and turned.

If she can return to student status? If she can unlearn her old ways and learn better ones, forfeit her pride? That would speak well of her and speak to her desire to actually change and grow.

If she wants to return as a Master, as one on the Council? That would speak volumes as well.
 
Vote will be called in three hours.

Also I don't know if you guys like Warhammer at all, but I'm starting a Warhammer Fantasy quest set in the southern Old World.

Link

(I'm mentioning this because I know at least @The Englanderish does, or at least I really hope so otherwise I'm going to feel sort of silly)
 
Vote is called, sorry it's late.

Mission reports will be up over the weekend, sorry but have to do a bunch of bullshit for class.
 
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