- Location
- Australia
-
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
My argument for Tech Level 10:
To preface, yes, there will be a diplomatic shitstorm with -3 Relations to -4 Relations (Muspelheim and Niflheim probably won't care/care less*, Byzantium will care less**, Vanaheim/Bertil will care a lot) to go around, and Rotbart will gain a reputation as a Bad Deal-Maker. But it is absolutely worth it.
So, what exactly can we do with -20% time reduction that is so incredible?
Well, the must-do actions of Telepathica Construction would have had 4 years saved in the past, 3 years (and more) in the future. That's enough time to do one piece of major research. Upgrading Dis would have taken 21 instead of 26 years. All around there are major time reductions for projects, which then translate into basically having more stuff done. On average in a 5 year turn we'll save enough time to do a Large City to Small Hive upgrade. It's not the flashiest of benefits, boring but practical but it's these kind of benefits which we can use to basically do more stuff.
Think of it like this: It is strategic-level Chronomancy minus the warp backlash.
There's also side benefits. Daemonic Incursions are unlikely but inevitable events. Whenever they happen, everyone gets invaded. Now, Trolls with TL 10? They'll handle a lot more Daemons than us - And Trolls fighting daemons are Daemons we don't have to fight.
And the negatives.
First, being known as a bad-deal maker. In a more sane galaxy this would indeed suck and suck a lot. But, ah, there are very few people to actually make strategic deals with. Apart from Dragon's Nest, which we are merging with, there are literally no nearby polities to make a deal with. The Conclave? Permanently set on automatic free tech sharing. Eldar? Favors we'll get through Rids pretty much, and in their usage we're trusted enough as a General that we can call in them to get Military support when we actually need it.
Other planets? I guess they could well try to sucker-deal us in general economic, Vanaheim in specific. But that comes with non-trivial risks and can actually result in majorly screwing themselves over.
Plus, let's remember that materially, this practically a pure-Avernus consequence decision. Like, seriously. The Trolls don't want to leave the planet, and if anything goes wrong, the wrong will be purely and entirely focused on Avernus the colony. Literally null backlash to the other planets. Trolls aren't going to invade them. It's similar to our governmental decisions.
I mean we've already eaten massive diplomatic consequences for trading souls to sirens. But the saddest part of A Ruthless Reputation is how it applies so rarely due to everyone applicable being dead/corrupted or literally too far away.
*Note: They are basically giving AM/EM for free to the colonies.
**Note: From outside the trust and have gone through all the shit in the galaxy.
To preface, yes, there will be a diplomatic shitstorm with -3 Relations to -4 Relations (Muspelheim and Niflheim probably won't care/care less*, Byzantium will care less**, Vanaheim/Bertil will care a lot) to go around, and Rotbart will gain a reputation as a Bad Deal-Maker. But it is absolutely worth it.
So, what exactly can we do with -20% time reduction that is so incredible?
Well, the must-do actions of Telepathica Construction would have had 4 years saved in the past, 3 years (and more) in the future. That's enough time to do one piece of major research. Upgrading Dis would have taken 21 instead of 26 years. All around there are major time reductions for projects, which then translate into basically having more stuff done. On average in a 5 year turn we'll save enough time to do a Large City to Small Hive upgrade. It's not the flashiest of benefits, boring but practical but it's these kind of benefits which we can use to basically do more stuff.
Think of it like this: It is strategic-level Chronomancy minus the warp backlash.
There's also side benefits. Daemonic Incursions are unlikely but inevitable events. Whenever they happen, everyone gets invaded. Now, Trolls with TL 10? They'll handle a lot more Daemons than us - And Trolls fighting daemons are Daemons we don't have to fight.
And the negatives.
First, being known as a bad-deal maker. In a more sane galaxy this would indeed suck and suck a lot. But, ah, there are very few people to actually make strategic deals with. Apart from Dragon's Nest, which we are merging with, there are literally no nearby polities to make a deal with. The Conclave? Permanently set on automatic free tech sharing. Eldar? Favors we'll get through Rids pretty much, and in their usage we're trusted enough as a General that we can call in them to get Military support when we actually need it.
Other planets? I guess they could well try to sucker-deal us in general economic, Vanaheim in specific. But that comes with non-trivial risks and can actually result in majorly screwing themselves over.
Plus, let's remember that materially, this practically a pure-Avernus consequence decision. Like, seriously. The Trolls don't want to leave the planet, and if anything goes wrong, the wrong will be purely and entirely focused on Avernus the colony. Literally null backlash to the other planets. Trolls aren't going to invade them. It's similar to our governmental decisions.
I mean we've already eaten massive diplomatic consequences for trading souls to sirens. But the saddest part of A Ruthless Reputation is how it applies so rarely due to everyone applicable being dead/corrupted or literally too far away.
*Note: They are basically giving AM/EM for free to the colonies.
**Note: From outside the trust and have gone through all the shit in the galaxy.
- Location
- Australia
The galaxy in an absolutely terrible state. The Trust and Avernus will continue to get hit by large, highly damaging invasion forces. We need walls, mines, factories, and cities all online faster more than we need maximum intra-Trust diplomatic capabilities. It's the Second Age of Strife and we need maximum industry and military might a lot more than we need somewhat better relations with members of our own polity. The medium- and long-term situation is exceedingly desperate.
- Location
- England
[X] Tech Level 7
- Location
- Spain
[X] Tech Level 10
Durin has stated on Discord that trading Tech Level 10 here would be a "massive issue". We would gain a reputation as a bad deal maker. This would mean that we would have less say in the Conclave, maybe not even being sent, and less say in the merger with the Dragon's Nest. We would have less of a voice in dealing with foreign powers in general as well.
That we have generally pushed for generosity in negotiations will color this. We have gotten away with that so far has been because there's always been sufficient benefits to it, but it won't be seem that way here apparently.
That we have generally pushed for generosity in negotiations will color this. We have gotten away with that so far has been because there's always been sufficient benefits to it, but it won't be seem that way here apparently.
- Location
- Spain
I don´t really know why is the people worrying here, we have done things which are way "worse" than this: Siren´s embassies, trading the souls of the cultists, giving the Nynye the whole Tau Techbase, and everytime we had takes an significant diplomatic hit that we have recovered in a few turs...
Really I don´t see the problem here...
Really I don´t see the problem here...
- Location
- Earth
Maybe it's because the Sirens and Nynye had unique stuff we couldn't get elsewhere. We were trading for runes and Alkahestry from them, while with the Trolls here we're getting "generic" stuff we could also get elsewhere. Yes, that 20% construction boost is nice, but it's not like construction is something only trolls can do. (This is from the Trust's POV, by the way. I don't personally agree with this view)
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
From one standpoint, chaos souls to Sirens is pretty amazing:
1. Saves people from being eternal suffering (if care about chaos cultists).
2. Weakens Chaos Gods.
3. Gets Amazing Runes, the first of which is a Fuck Chaos rune.
The Siren deal got us a negative trait and lost relationship with several factions of the Trust. I love the shinies that are improved build times for non-psyker cities, I really do get how potentially powerful they are long term. I was ready to vote TL10 at first, but with the clarifications we've gotten, now would be a really bad time to rock the boat.
[X] Tech Level 7
[X] Tech Level 7
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- Location
- The Bayou, Everglades
[EDIT] Screw it, I'm extremely tired, If it's a problem, I'll fix it when I'm back.
[X] Tech Level 7
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- Location
- United States
[X] Tech Level 8
[X] Tech Level 7
[X] Tech Level 7
- Location
- Europe
[X] Tech Level 7
- Location
- United states
[X] Tech Level 7
Screw it, while I think that going with a deal that still benefits us while still not costing us anything is fine going with a deal with huge negative repurcussions because people were obssessed with the shinies and decided to seriously hurt our reputation because they couldn't wait a bit for the trolls to grow and be able to offer more down the line has made me decide to go with the vote most likely to win that is also the least damaging. Especially since getting a reputation as a bad deal maker is way worse than the people pushing for level 10 are playing off as.
Avernus is not alone in this. We work with the Trust, a coalition of planets who are all working together. We can't just say fuck it to them just because it mostly benefits only Avernus. I'd rather still be able for us to have say in the rest of the Trust over having some extra build time.
Screw it, while I think that going with a deal that still benefits us while still not costing us anything is fine going with a deal with huge negative repurcussions because people were obssessed with the shinies and decided to seriously hurt our reputation because they couldn't wait a bit for the trolls to grow and be able to offer more down the line has made me decide to go with the vote most likely to win that is also the least damaging. Especially since getting a reputation as a bad deal maker is way worse than the people pushing for level 10 are playing off as.
Avernus is not alone in this. We work with the Trust, a coalition of planets who are all working together. We can't just say fuck it to them just because it mostly benefits only Avernus. I'd rather still be able for us to have say in the rest of the Trust over having some extra build time.
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ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
[X]Tech level 7
I'd like to actually influence the Trust again, thank you, last time we cards-on-tabled we got the Trust itself to exist. I'd rather like to keep doing that.
I'd like to actually influence the Trust again, thank you, last time we cards-on-tabled we got the Trust itself to exist. I'd rather like to keep doing that.
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[X] Tech level 8
