yes, we have good guards. but not only does the offence always have the advantage when it comes to battles since they can pick when/where to start the battle (having a pre-cog like rids on our side is huge because it actually turns this advantage around on the opponent) but we are dealing with people/forces that either: have access to nigh-undetectable and super-deep agents (the alpha agents), or have access to the majority of our planets/places as they are not (yet) openly our enemys (the conservatives). (oh, and its not like tezeetch doesn't have a big enough grudge against us to give a blessing to whoever takes a swing at us))
what could ANY guard-unit do to protect somebody or a shipyard reactor against a well-placed, well-timed bomb? or several? or dozens even coordinated to catch us off guard ? possibly laced with who-knows-what? it would take alot of skill sure, but the reason I'm so concerned is that every source we have says that alpha-agents have that in spades and they might get the idea to work with the conservative extremists. (and the statistics we got a few days on the support the conservatives have suggest that there are still too many of them for us to spy on every individual 24/7)
we might have good guards, but the fact is they have to be checking basically every square foot of every building/location on every planet/station that has any worth at all nearly 24/7, because we can't choose when or where the enemy attacks. I just do not see how this is realistically possible even for our solders without spending more resources then we can afford (especially in the middle of a war too)
theres a reason why terrorism/spy-work/subterfuge is so effective --- there is basically nothing you can do if its done right (and we know our enemies are capable of doing it not just well, but near-perfectly) and its also why most governments in RL are spending so much money on various intelligence-gathering/countering techs....because they are desperate to find ways to protect high-value targets cheaply.
First off, the conservatives are by and large not part of this shadow war on the enemy's side. They hate Chaos too, so will be acting against the Chaos agents unless they happen to be corrupted. Don't confuse who we're fighting against here. This is mostly a matter of outside infiltrators.
Now, our top people are under heavy guard, and the closer an infiltrator gets to them the higher the chances of detection - anyone expected to deal with people of priority are going to be checked thoroughly. Given that tech theft is going to be the primary goal of most infiltrators we're dealing with, it's better for them to not try to get close since it would put them under much heavier scrutiny. I'm not terribly worried about assassinations, and if it was expected to be a huge problem I'd expect that we'd have gotten a warning in an update about it.
For blowing up a shipyard reactor, that might at best destroy a small part of a shipyard. You need to realize that our shipyards are huge, and they've got lots and lots of reactors. What's more, the reactors would be one of the most secured, checked on, and maintained sections of a shipyard. Such terrorism is also going to get a lot of focus put on groups that try it, and end up with them being more likely to be exposed.
The primary goals of the Chaos side of the shadow war are going to be to put people in positions where they can steal technology and gain knowledge of our plans. Overt terrorism is not likely to be a huge part of it. And again, the Inquisition isn't asking for huge amounts of help. I'm fine with helping anyways, but I think the problems aren't nearly as dire as you're making them out to be.
@Enjou What do you think of the idea of switching the last diplomacy action to sending all of the data Maximal has on Psyker/warp genetics to Secondus so that Cawl can get his hands on it? As has been mentioned before Cawl gaining our advanced warp/psyker genetic knowledge which has been noted to be way ahead of all the other human polities due to living on Avernus and studying the wildlife. Seeing as the Astartes are largely build around that it seems like it could seriously speed up his research which would be great for everyone since they can share.
That and Cawl may be interested enough to consider learning from Maximal himself or outright moving to Avernus if he believes he can benefit from the research here.
It might be a good idea to ask if any of the lizardmen want to fight on Hvergelmir as well. After all, the weapon enchanting thing the saurus do does depend on Veterancy.
I wonder when Avernus will decide to unleash its forces? like, its cool and all that they are building up. but its going to do nothing if it holds onto its chips so long that the galaxy falls into the warp or the orks take over or whatever apolapse happens.
or maybe it IS unleashing some of its forces....US
Should point out that Avernus has some really dangerous stuff and they do have to worry about things like invasions, especially chaos invasions. They also just suffered a daemonic incursion now that long ago.
Can we instead trade with Saurus for more artifacts for our heroes? We should be able to survive one turn without whatever counter-psyker assistance they could provide, but the fight on Hvergelmir is a big problem for this turn only, and it is very important for us to have our heroes as capable there as possible, especially if we leave Jane at home.
Can we instead trade with Saurus for more artifacts for our heroes? We should be able to survive one turn without whatever counter-psyker assistance they could provide, but the fight on Hvergelmir is a big problem for this turn only, and it is very important for us to have our heroes as capable there as possible, especially if we leave Jane at home.
"[X] Remove Thunder Warrior Flaws action from Biologis. "
wait: I was not really paying attention last turn. did we start the TW research action?
I want to point out to people that durin has striaght up said before that theres a chance that the super-long research train it requires might not even pay off with anything.
considering he has also stated that he regrets making it canon suggests that this is not even a small chance of happening either.
[X] Remove Thunder Warrior Flaws action from Biologis.
I should also point out that we have the option to get Cawl whose main thing is literally creating super elite soldiers. Removing the action permanently just seems like it has way too much potential to shot ourselves in the foot for no reason. If people don't want to do it then they won't vote to do it.
First off, the conservatives are by and large not part of this shadow war on the enemy's side. They hate Chaos too, so will be acting against the Chaos agents unless they happen to be corrupted. Don't confuse who we're fighting against here. This is mostly a matter of outside infiltrators.
Now, our top people are under heavy guard, and the closer an infiltrator gets to them the higher the chances of detection - anyone expected to deal with people of priority are going to be checked thoroughly.
yes, the chances of detection are "higher" but that doesn't mean much. because these agents can spend months or even Years preparing. the facts as I see them, that even high-security locations are still as porous as a sponge.
Given that tech theft is going to be the primary goal of most infiltrators we're dealing with, it's better for them to not try to get close since it would put them under much heavier scrutiny. I'm not terribly worried about assassinations, and if it was expected to be a huge problem I'd expect that we'd have gotten a warning in an update about it.
unless they think a bomb going off gives them a good opportunity via distraction to grab some tech in the chaos of the situation...and so they arrange to give the potentially corrupted conservatives a helping hand in planting bombs or assasinating people (because I would think that at this point (of their extremism) they would rather the trust destoryed or hindered then "corrupted" in their eyes)...and even if they are not themselves corrupted by the tyrant-god, its not like external agents can't pretend to just be conservative fellows like themselves and act like they are not just trying to steal tech.
For blowing up a shipyard reactor, that might at best destroy a small part of a shipyard. You need to realize that our shipyards are huge, and they've got lots and lots of reactors. What's more, the reactors would be one of the most secured, checked on, and maintained sections of a shipyard. Such terrorism is also going to get a lot of focus put on groups that try it, and end up with them being more likely to be exposed.
I fail to understand why a reactor going off and/or multiple large bombs wouldn't destroy a shipyard. I would remind people that even a "small" bomb by even RL, Year-2000 tech standards can drop a skyscraper, it doesnt take a semi-truck-sized bomb... and thats with conventional tech.
....by wh40k standards, buffed by warp-shinanagins, they could easily gut a shipyard with a bomb small enough that again, warp-shinangins can hide or disguise.
The primary goals of the Chaos side of the shadow war are going to be to put people in positions where they can steal technology and gain knowledge of our plans. Overt terrorism is not likely to be a huge part of it. And again, the Inquisition isn't asking for huge amounts of help. I'm fine with helping anyways, but I think the problems aren't nearly as dire as you're making them out to be.
I think the disagreement between you and me is that your basing all of these situations off of normal, average-day situations where you look at "average" possablitys.
but when your dealing with a enemy that has years to prepare and spy for weaknesses, you have to assume that the enemy will arrange for EVERY worst case scenario to hit you at the same fricking moment. events that would normally be 1-in-a-million will happen one after the other because they made sure it would happen.
the alpha agents might decide to strike at the same moment the conservatives do just to make the distraction big enough for them to make off with some big piece of tech.
one or more psykers might get corrupted so hard/suddenly at the worst moment so their brain-explosion wipes a floor that have someone/something important.
the conservatives might get corrupted and manage to hide some large-scale ritual to release deamons.
-------------
all of these "mights" go from "improbable events" to "not only probably will happen, but tzeetch will, because he hates us, arrange for them to happen at the same moment for exponentially worse effect" because it would be great for our enemys if they did and so they (and tzeetch) will arrange for it to happen that way.
...sounds hard for them to do sure, but these are master-class agents with years of prep-time backed by tzeetch the chaos god of spys, shinanagins, bad-luck and FATE itself. you could not ask for a better team to pull off otherwise-impossable ops.
this is a great time to catch us off guard while most of our forces and high-skill heros are off fighting a war light years away.
I have done mostly-minor editing to clarify or drop assertions.
I should also point out that we have the option to get Cawl whose main thing is literally creating super elite soldiers. Removing the action permanently just seems like it has way too much potential to shot ourselves in the foot for no reason. If people don't want to do it then they won't vote to do it.
Even so once he is done then he could do those and due to his background he would seem like he would actually have a pretty good chance of succeeding. So doesn't change the fact that it seems like a really stupid idea to get rid of the TW action permanently considering that getting Cawl would make it practical.
Even so once he is done then he could do those and due to his background he would seem like he would actually have a pretty good chance of succeeding. So doesn't change the fact that it seems like a really stupid idea to get rid of the TW action permanently considering that getting Cawl would make it practical.
It seems like the TW action is broken up, seeing as the action we have states "Fixing the Flaws of Thunder Part One". Making me think there is a realistic chance that we will be seeing each flaw that Max thinks is fixable being its own action instead of the Century Long super action you seem to be implying it will be.
Can we come to a gentleman's agreement to never actually start the fixing the TW action until/unless Cawl finishes his stuff and is willing to work on it?
Actually removing the option seems silly since it is exactly the kind of thing Cawl would love to work on, if he finishes his primary project.
Can we come to a gentleman's agreement to never actually start the fixing the TW action until/unless Cawl finishes his stuff and is willing to work on it?
Cawl coming isn't a certainty since there are people who don't want to spend the favor on him as things stand. I can see us doing part one over the timeskip as well.
Cawl coming isn't a certainty since there are people who don't want to spend the favor on him as things stand. I can see us doing part one over the timeskip as well.
I expect the number for it is higher than the number against it, if it comes down to it.
Frankly I think despite how much he is currently assisting secondus, coming to Avernus and finishing his project (which will almost certainly happen faster with all the examples of exactly what he is looking for) is actually a larger boost to secondus than he is currently providing, even accounting for the time requirement.
I expect the number for it is higher than the number against it, if it comes down to it.
Frankly I think despite how much he is currently assisting secondus, coming to Avernus and finishing his project (which will almost certainly happen faster with all the examples of exactly what he is looking for) is actually a larger boost to secondus than he is currently providing, even accounting for the time requirement.
Some are. And we can always write the option in even after we remove it, it just stops tempting people so much.
If we buy Cawl (a very recent idea (of mine! Am proud of it.)), he is done with the Primaris, and nothing else supersoldier-y comes up (like buffing Last Hunters or getting Assassin augmentations), then yes. Having him work on TWs makes perfect sense.
But people have been gunning for the action for a long time now, even before Cawl was a thing.
It seems like the TW action is broken up, seeing as the action we have states "Fixing the Flaws of Thunder Part One". Making me think there is a realistic chance that we will be seeing each flaw that Max thinks is fixable being its own action instead of the Century Long super action you seem to be implying it will be.
There are 4 parts if I recall correctly, which assuming same duration is pretty much a century. As this is merely an assessment, not any work done on the actual upgrades, it could be even longer still.
Can we come to a gentleman's agreement to never actually start the fixing the TW action until/unless Cawl finishes his stuff and is willing to work on it?
Actually removing the option seems silly since it is exactly the kind of thing Cawl would love to work on, if he finishes his primary project.
I can agree to that, though I would prefer to remove the option until then or something. I always get nervous come voting time that that action will win and cost us a century of very interesting and useful wildlife research.
Cawl coming isn't a certainty since there are people who don't want to spend the favor on him as things stand. I can see us doing part one over the timeskip as well.
As far as I can tell, most people are in favor, so long as he is not needed in Secundus more/Avernus would not help him much with Primaris. Though some (like me) want to wait so that he has time to get the low hanging fruit of what he can do for Secundus done, the Destroyer war is no joke. After the timeskip seems best right now to me, but not enough info yet.
I can agree to that, though I would prefer to remove the option until then or something. I always get nervous come voting time that that action will win and cost us a century of very interesting and useful wildlife research.
I can agree to that, though I would prefer to remove the option until then or something. I always get nervous come voting time that that action will win and cost us a century of very interesting and useful wildlife research.
Oh god please no. That would just set a precedent where anytime a vote that people don't like shows up we are just going to end up with even more of these kinds of arguments. The arguments can already be bad enough but for the love of god don't make them worse. If people don't won't to vote for it then they won't and if you don't like a vote either make arguments against it or try to come up with a compromise that most people can agree on at least.
Also can't help but think that people are going to abuse that feature by convincing people to remover votes in the hope that they forget about them.
Oh god please no. That would just set a precedent where anytime a vote that people don't like shows up we are just going to end up with even more of these kinds of arguments. The arguments can already be bad enough but for the love of god don't make them worse. If people don't won't to vote for it then they won't and if you don't like a vote either make arguments against it or try to come up with a compromise that most people can agree on at least.
Also can't help but think that people are going to abuse that feature by convincing people to remover votes in the hope that they forget about them.
Yeah setting the precedent of removing an option due to vocal dislike seems a bad idea. People didn't even suggest that for the Primordial Sea and the costs were much greater.
