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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Sure. Done.
Also, @Durin
1. Could Divination: Attacks be used to help against the Tyranids, as opposed to Greater Divinations?
[X] Plan Enjou T138
Chlof
Her Ladyship
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Please, please don't put our best psychic researcher in danger. She won't even have that much of an impact, she's our relatively worst combat grandmaster facing off against enemies she's bad at countering.
Ah, good point. Changing that.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Ah, I thought that the big battle happens in Y4 for some reason.
So are Shocktroopers, which would benefit far more from Powered Armor, though they cost much more. Scouts are only 7 years.
The benefits to psyker hunting are minimal and it takes over two decades. We expect a lot of Munitorum work soon, after the battle. Not just replenishing losses, but also Implementing Harvesters.
A lot of war is hurry up and wait, so I would not be surprised if we could... @Durin ?
We know what we want to pay them with, its technology. We want to know what else they have to offer for it other than hive construction help, not what else we could pay them with.
Nothing whatsoever for the Shadow War? Seems very unwise.
No divination spared for the Shadow War? No, I will not vote for this.
She is our best researches and worst heroic psyker. Bad idea.
My question about Divination: Attacks is relevant to this. If we can do that, then I can put a shadow war Greater Divination in Year 4.
But the more divination we have for Ridcully helping the campaign in the first two years, the better position we'll be in the later years.
- Location
- USA
[X] Plan Enjou T138
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Why not put 4 Counterintel? DD'ing Greater Psyker Hunting is basically a 20% of a +16, basically a +2.4 vs Beta+ Psykers on average. CounterIntel/Greater Psyker Hunting every turn is the most optimal configuration.
- Location
- USA
- Location
- western US
"[X] Remove Thunder Warrior Flaws action from Biologis. "
wait: I was not really paying attention last turn. did we start the TW research action?
I want to point out to people that durin has striaght up said before that theres a chance that the super-long research train it requires might not even pay off with anything.
considering he has also stated that he regrets making it canon suggests that this is not even a small chance of happening either.
[X] Remove Thunder Warrior Flaws action from Biologis.
wait: I was not really paying attention last turn. did we start the TW research action?
I want to point out to people that durin has striaght up said before that theres a chance that the super-long research train it requires might not even pay off with anything.
considering he has also stated that he regrets making it canon suggests that this is not even a small chance of happening either.
[X] Remove Thunder Warrior Flaws action from Biologis.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
[X] Plan Shard T138
[X] Remove Thunder Warrior Flaws action from Biologis.
It's a likely century long action chain that would eat all of our biologis actions (leaving none for the treasure trove that is Avernus), for maybe an upgrade for a rather niche unit.
TWs are unsurpassed in being rapidly mass producible expendable superelites. That is a major achievement. They have their valuable niche, but are not in any way comparable to SMs, long term.
They are fine as they are for their role. Besides, I do not believe that we would surpass Empses work, and thus would expect sidegrades at most (lower performance for longer lifespan, etc.) instead of making them better rapidly mass producible expendable superelites.
This might be worth it if we were not sitting on the galaxies greatest biologis treasure trove, but even then I would vote to leave it to Callamus. Biological arguments and supersoldiers are not our specializations, while Callamus does that a lot and has massively more resources to throw at the problem, not to mention a far greater need for TWs (their SMs are almost extinct due to attrition).
Do not underestimate something called a Shadow War.
[X] Remove Thunder Warrior Flaws action from Biologis.
It's a likely century long action chain that would eat all of our biologis actions (leaving none for the treasure trove that is Avernus), for maybe an upgrade for a rather niche unit.
TWs are unsurpassed in being rapidly mass producible expendable superelites. That is a major achievement. They have their valuable niche, but are not in any way comparable to SMs, long term.
They are fine as they are for their role. Besides, I do not believe that we would surpass Empses work, and thus would expect sidegrades at most (lower performance for longer lifespan, etc.) instead of making them better rapidly mass producible expendable superelites.
This might be worth it if we were not sitting on the galaxies greatest biologis treasure trove, but even then I would vote to leave it to Callamus. Biological arguments and supersoldiers are not our specializations, while Callamus does that a lot and has massively more resources to throw at the problem, not to mention a far greater need for TWs (their SMs are almost extinct due to attrition).
Well, hopefully it's possible. I could maybe vote for a plan without a divination, but it would need 4 Counterintels.
Do not underestimate something called a Shadow War.
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- Location
- western US
I agree that we need to put more effort towards countering the shadow war.
I would point out honestly, that we kinda already have the nids beat on SOME level because even if we crit-fail this upcoming battle, we just call in a Honorbound favor and eldar-nuke them out of existence.
but I don't think we will be able to eldar-nuke our shipyards being bombed, our hero units or research-people assasinated or our tech stolen (I could totally see the conservatives trying to off tranth or (not sure which would be better for them, worse for us and thus more likely?), our progressive admech leader)
....once that happens its DONE, nothing the eldar can do after-the-fact so no honorbound favor can fix it.
thus, I suggest that our home-based efforts should focus on countering the conservative terrorists (cas you know they won't fight us in a honest battle that they would undoubtedly lose) AND countering the alpha-agents.
I would point out honestly, that we kinda already have the nids beat on SOME level because even if we crit-fail this upcoming battle, we just call in a Honorbound favor and eldar-nuke them out of existence.
but I don't think we will be able to eldar-nuke our shipyards being bombed, our hero units or research-people assasinated or our tech stolen (I could totally see the conservatives trying to off tranth or (not sure which would be better for them, worse for us and thus more likely?), our progressive admech leader)
....once that happens its DONE, nothing the eldar can do after-the-fact so no honorbound favor can fix it.
thus, I suggest that our home-based efforts should focus on countering the conservative terrorists (cas you know they won't fight us in a honest battle that they would undoubtedly lose) AND countering the alpha-agents.
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Sure, I guess we can do that then.
If we're so desperate that we have to call in an Honorbound favor, then we've fucked up immensely and lost most of our fleets, and we'll be in a terrible state afterwards. We need to survive the war against the Tyranids in the best condition we can, and if things are so bad that we have to call in the highest level of favor possible to bail us out we're not going to be in that condition.
No shadow war is going to destroy most of our shipyards through terrorism because of the sheer scale of them. Our top people all have elite guards, so assassinating them is extremely difficult. Some tech being stolen (which is inevitably going to happen at some point) is not an immediate game over.
While I'm fine with putting effort towards the shadow wars, let's not exaggerate the problems those will cause. The Inquisition isn't panicking and asking for loads of assistance with it, so it's not likely that bad.
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- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Shard T138
- Location
- western US
I disagree, I do not think it is a exaggeration.
yes, we have good guards. but not only does the offence always have the advantage when it comes to battles since they can pick when/where to start the battle (having a pre-cog like rids on our side is huge because it actually turns this advantage around on the opponent) but we are dealing with people/forces that either: have access to nigh-undetectable and super-deep agents (the alpha agents), or have access to the majority of our planets/places as they are not (yet) openly our enemys (the conservatives). (oh, and its not like tezeetch doesn't have a big enough grudge against us to give a blessing to whoever takes a swing at us))
what could ANY guard-unit do to protect somebody or a shipyard reactor against a well-placed, well-timed bomb? or several? or dozens even coordinated to catch us off guard ? possibly laced with who-knows-what? it would take alot of skill sure, but the reason I'm so concerned is that every source we have says that alpha-agents have that in spades and they might get the idea to work with the conservative extremists. (and the statistics we got a few days on the support the conservatives have suggest that there are still too many of them for us to spy on every individual 24/7)
we might have good guards, but the fact is they have to be checking basically every square foot of every building/location on every planet/station that has any worth at all nearly 24/7, because we can't choose when or where the enemy attacks. I just do not see how this is realistically possible even for our solders without spending more resources then we can afford (especially in the middle of a war too)
theres a reason why terrorism/spy-work/subterfuge is so effective --- there is basically nothing you can do if its done right (and we know our enemies are capable of doing it not just well, but near-perfectly) and its also why most governments in RL are spending so much money on various intelligence-gathering/countering techs....because they are desperate to find ways to protect high-value targets cheaply enough to protect EVERY high-value target (because there is usually hundreds of different targets that would be painful to lose).
don't get me wrong however, I would be happy to hear why my reasoning doesn't work in wh40k...like maybe wh40k logic makes subterfuge less effective then it RL like it does for orbital bombardment. but if it does this would be the first I have heard of it.
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- Location
- United states
@Enjou What do you think of the idea of switching the last diplomacy action to sending all of the data Maximal has on Psyker/warp genetics to Secondus so that Cawl can get his hands on it? As has been mentioned before Cawl gaining our advanced warp/psyker genetic knowledge which has been noted to be way ahead of all the other human polities due to living on Avernus and studying the wildlife. Seeing as the Astartes are largely build around that it seems like it could seriously speed up his research which would be great for everyone since they can share.
That and Cawl may be interested enough to consider learning from Maximal himself or outright moving to Avernus if he believes he can benefit from the research here.
That and Cawl may be interested enough to consider learning from Maximal himself or outright moving to Avernus if he believes he can benefit from the research here.
I firmly support this @Enjou the Primaris project is a big deal for the sane.
Chlof
Her Ladyship
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It might be a good idea to ask if any of the lizardmen want to fight on Hvergelmir as well. After all, the weapon enchanting thing the saurus do does depend on Veterancy.
- Location
- United states
It has been pointed out repeatedly that the people of Avernus do not like the idea of leaving Avernus. Especially the guardian races since they have a direct duty to Avernus itself.
- Location
- western US
I wonder when Avernus will decide to unleash its forces? like, its cool and all that they are building up. but its going to do nothing if it holds onto its chips so long that the galaxy falls into the warp or the orks take over or whatever apolapse happens.
or maybe it IS unleashing some of its forces....US
