The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
@Enerael, can you please add some credit calculations to your plan?
Its in the original post here:
I was not writing all of that again, much less in a different format.

The Last Hunters really shouldn't be getting into pitched battle where Toughness should be needed. They're more like assassins, striking and killing swiftly.
With how we have been using them, Last Hunters are elite warriors with an assassination option.

See Headcrusha for example.

And our losses to psykers, who utilize such things as thrown buildings and mind controlled militiaman.

Even if they were purely assassins though, there is no excuse for not spending 450 cr on journeyman toughness runes.

Now sleep.
 
@Enerael Is there a way for you to get the Master Channeling runes on the Primaris psykers? Because I get the feeling that will be a big boost across basically all our choirs, Execution forces and general deployments. Maybe remove the Luck rune from Last Hunters since they cost 30,000 credits and are honestly overkill for what we need from them when those could instead be spent on improving other units with higher quality runes or additional ones.
 
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[X] Plan Rune Up!

A tie at 13 votes each.
Adhoc vote count started by nat_401 on Apr 30, 2019 at 4:34 PM, finished with 170 posts and 26 votes.

  • [X] Plan Shard Runeplan
    [X] Plan Rune Up!
    -[X] *1- Heroes of Avernus (5 000 cr)
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Toughness
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Warding
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Luck
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Piercing
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Damage
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Channeling
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Banishment
    -[X] *15- Last Hunters (42 000 cr)
    -[X] *25- Grandmaster Psyker and Witch Hunters (20 000 cr)
    -[X] *100- Primaris and Grandmaster Battle Psykers (10 000 cr)
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Toughness
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Warding
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Channeling
    -[X] *200- Life Guard (16 000 cr)
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Damage
    -[X] *500- Master Psyker and Witch Hunters (26 500 cr)
    --[X] Apprentice Runes of Toughness
    --[X] Apprentice Runes of Warding
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Banishment
    -[X] *600- Helguard Regimental Champions (5 300 cr)
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Piercing
    -[X] *1,000- Master Battle Psykers (7 000 cr)
    --[X] Apprentice Runes of Damage
    -[X] *6,000- Helguard Battalion Champions (6 000 cr)
 
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[X] Plan Shard Runeplan

Our Last Hunters are assassins. Their entire job is to kill high value targets. They are not meant to hold the line or do anything else, just hit high and hit hard. Improving their ability to do their one job, to kill high value targets, is far and away more important than improving their staying power.

Our Life Guard is responsible for the lives of our heroes. Not our psyker hunters, not primaris psykers, the Life Guard. To say that those two other groups will simply substitute is bad argumentation, because it's saying that the Life Guard do not fill their niche as well as other units, which is factually wrong. Everyone must accept that the Life Guard have their place, that their place is as bodyguards, and that improving their ability to act as bodyguards will do more to preserve our heroes' lives than powering up any other unit.

The only enemies our heroes face that have even a semi-decent chance of killing them are always super-elites. The top tier, not the grunts. Those units almost always have very heavy armour, with the tyranids being a very minor exception. Improving their armour piercing ability will let them better combat the most deadly and common military threats to their charges' lives.

Every daemonic incursion has seen us lose multiple heroes, and has seen as nearly lose several more. This includes Ridcully, who nearly died even after rolling 90+ against a mere Honoured. Improving the ability of the Life Guard to combat daemons is imperative to keeping our heroes alive, because we will suffer more daemonic incursions in the future, and when they occur our Life Guard need that extra edge so that our heroes never have to roll absurdly high numbers to survive.

Our Helguard Champions fight mundane enemies, not psykers. The greatest threat to their lives are enemy champions and mooks, not psykers. The greatest threat to the lives of our champions' comrades are enemy champions and mooks, not psykers. Giving our Helguard Champions better weapons will do more to let them kill enemies and keep themselves and their comrades alive than warding.

Battle psykers fight primarily with psychic powers, not weapons. It's a waste to improve their weapon power when we could instead improve their ability to banish daemons, since psykers are among our most potent and key assets in battles against the daemonic. Even channelling would be better compared to upping weapon damage and armour, since that at least lets them do their job better.


Ok.
I'm imagining something rather wasteful. That thing can already carve its way through super-heavy vehicles fairly easily. Unless he wants to go hit capital warships with his sword more AP is largely redundant.
Just gonna dunk that cold water on the parade. Gotta find the good vibes and strangle them to death. No fun allowed here in Embers in the Dusk.
 
[X] Plan Rune Up!

Sigh, I'm really stuck here...
Adhoc vote count started by StormySky on Apr 30, 2019 at 6:30 PM, finished with 184 posts and 30 votes.

  • [X] Plan Shard Runeplan
    [X] Plan Rune Up!
    -[X] *1- Heroes of Avernus (5 000 cr)
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Toughness
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Warding
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Luck
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Piercing
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Damage
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Channeling
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Banishment
    -[X] *15- Last Hunters (42 000 cr)
    -[X] *25- Grandmaster Psyker and Witch Hunters (20 000 cr)
    -[X] *100- Primaris and Grandmaster Battle Psykers (10 000 cr)
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Toughness
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Warding
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Channeling
    -[X] *200- Life Guard (16 000 cr)
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Damage
    -[X] *500- Master Psyker and Witch Hunters (26 500 cr)
    --[X] Apprentice Runes of Toughness
    --[X] Apprentice Runes of Warding
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Banishment
    -[X] *600- Helguard Regimental Champions (5 300 cr)
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Piercing
    -[X] *1,000- Master Battle Psykers (7 000 cr)
    --[X] Apprentice Runes of Damage
    -[X] *6,000- Helguard Battalion Champions (6 000 cr)

Adhoc vote count started by StormySky on Apr 30, 2019 at 6:32 PM, finished with 184 posts and 30 votes.

  • [X] Plan Rune Up!
    -[X] *1- Heroes of Avernus (5 000 cr)
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Toughness
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Warding
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Luck
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Piercing
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Damage
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Channeling
    --[X] Masterwork Runes of Banishment
    -[X] *15- Last Hunters (42 000 cr)
    -[X] *25- Grandmaster Psyker and Witch Hunters (20 000 cr)
    -[X] *100- Primaris and Grandmaster Battle Psykers (10 000 cr)
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Toughness
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Warding
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Channeling
    -[X] *200- Life Guard (16 000 cr)
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Damage
    -[X] *500- Master Psyker and Witch Hunters (26 500 cr)
    --[X] Apprentice Runes of Toughness
    --[X] Apprentice Runes of Warding
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Banishment
    -[X] *600- Helguard Regimental Champions (5 300 cr)
    --[X] Journeyman Runes of Piercing
    -[X] *1,000- Master Battle Psykers (7 000 cr)
    --[X] Apprentice Runes of Damage
    -[X] *6,000- Helguard Battalion Champions (6 000 cr)
    [X] Plan Shard Runeplan

Adhoc vote count started by StormySky on Apr 30, 2019 at 7:05 PM, finished with 186 posts and 32 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by StormySky on Apr 30, 2019 at 8:25 PM, finished with 191 posts and 33 votes.
 
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That means he can damage them, it doesn't mean he does a lot of damage. I'm pretty sure someone calculated you needed double pen or something to inflict full damage and Grav's Bite would only have 3 pen over an exalted's armour value.

I used exalted armor for emphasis. If he's fighting an exalted he's dead. He has sufficient AP for any reasonable fight.
 
I used exalted armor for emphasis. If he's fighting an exalted he's dead. He has sufficient AP for any reasonable fight.
Not really, Exalted are IIRC not actually as powerful as they would be in the materium compared to the warp and Areatha earned her transcendence by killing an exalted. Out of all our people Jacob is the most likely to actually be able to kill an exalted.
 
I used exalted armor for emphasis. If he's fighting an exalted he's dead. He has sufficient AP for any reasonable fight.
Not really, Exalted are IIRC not actually as powerful as they would be in the materium compared to the warp and Areatha earned her transcendence by killing an exalted. Out of all our people Jacob is the most likely to actually be able to kill an exalted.
Its variable, fully manifesting an exalted would be game over GG.

Manifesting one at regular on Avernus would be bad since Avernus is closer to the warp so it would be stronger, but Jacob wouldn't be insta dead unless fighting one solo.

Daemonic incursion though probably dead since that's much stronger than would normally be able to manifest at.
 
Our Last Hunters are assassins. Their entire job is to kill high value targets. They are not meant to hold the line or do anything else, just hit high and hit hard. Improving their ability to do their one job, to kill high value targets, is far and away more important than improving their staying power.
Illogical within the setting.
Almost everyone important enough to be worth assassinating is tough enough that they cannot normally be one-shot. As such improving the Last Hunters' durability is very valuable. The longer they can survive fighting a hero the better their odds of killing said hero.

Our Life Guard is responsible for the lives of our heroes. Not our psyker hunters, not primaris psykers, the Life Guard. To say that those two other groups will simply substitute is bad argumentation, because it's saying that the Life Guard do not fill their niche as well as other units, which is factually wrong. Everyone must accept that the Life Guard have their place, that their place is as bodyguards, and that improving their ability to act as bodyguards will do more to preserve our heroes' lives than powering up any other unit.
Ironically not in most cases. We tend to use our heroes and thus the Life Guard act as normal elite troops more often than not.
And the couple of 'heroes' who don't seek out combat tend to have entire armies between them and the enemy.

The only enemies our heroes face that have even a semi-decent chance of killing them are always super-elites. The top tier, not the grunts. Those units almost always have very heavy armour, with the tyranids being a very minor exception. Improving their armour piercing ability will let them better combat the most deadly and common military threats to their charges' lives.
True, but given the weapons they have the AP runes will not have as pronounced an effect as for worse armed troops.

Every daemonic incursion has seen us lose multiple heroes, and has seen as nearly lose several more. This includes Ridcully, who nearly died even after rolling 90+ against a mere Honoured. Improving the ability of the Life Guard to combat daemons is imperative to keeping our heroes alive, because we will suffer more daemonic incursions in the future, and when they occur our Life Guard need that extra edge so that our heroes never have to roll absurdly high numbers to survive.
1) Mere Honoured. So strange a term for something that can kill armies single handed.
2) Ridcully was up against literally the worst possible type enemy he could face. Using it as a benchmark this way is disingenuous.
3) I would far rather spend money on our dedicated anti-psyker / anti-demon forces than on bodyguards for the purpose of defending against demons. Specialising a unit designed to fight any potential threat against a specific enemy is wasteful.

Our Helguard Champions fight mundane enemies, not psykers. The greatest threat to their lives are enemy champions and mooks, not psykers. The greatest threat to the lives of our champions' comrades are enemy champions and mooks, not psykers. Giving our Helguard Champions better weapons will do more to let them kill enemies and keep themselves and their comrades alive than warding.
Rogue psykers are by far a more common threat to our Helguard than mundane enemies. Also we commonly fight Chaos, who use a lot of psykers and sorcerers. Also we fight Nids, who use a lot of psy attacks.

Battle psykers fight primarily with psychic powers, not weapons. It's a waste to improve their weapon power when we could instead improve their ability to banish daemons, since psykers are among our most potent and key assets in battles against the daemonic. Even channelling would be better compared to upping weapon damage and armour, since that at least lets them do their job better.
True. However they are low enough in priority that they get what can be afforded, not what would be most effective.

+ Jacob's likely to be our main anti exalted anti tier 3 warboss machine.

Having additional AP vs them so he does more than scratch marks seems kinda important.
You seem to forget that he generally uses the Black Crystal Sword when going up against powerful enemies. It having an AP value of something like one or two hundred.
 
You seem to forget that he generally uses the Black Crystal Sword when going up against powerful enemies. It having an AP value of something like one or two hundred.
IIRC its AP value is too high to matter and yeah we do tend to lend it to him when fighting things like that.

Although just watch out for Spaghetti.
 
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