Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest

I'm not sure which way to swing on religon.

Yes pros: Unified Theocracy yaaay! King is checked by Church and vice-versa.
cons: Double-think funtimes, what with the Cosmopolitian&Proselyting basically transforming into aggressive expansion/coverting into Arthwydysh peoples.

No pros: Religon can ignore political borderlines.
No cons: Church potentially can get up to OTL Christianity funtimes, diffuse nature might screw with Arthryn. (am I bound to the nation, the people by blood? the people by blessing? or to the religion)

For Law? I'm leaning towards:
[] [Law] Justice and Fairness
and
[] [Law] Communal Good
But this is something I straight-up don't have the knowledge to really enter into.

[] [Mega] Upgrade the Blood of Evalyn.
This strangely enough is kind of tempting, given the wall, I half-expect it to be inborn Stone Magic proficency, which is a tempting prize. Of course I might be wrong about what precisely this will do.

[] [Mega] Gain a new Martial-related Value
Slightly tempted because for our size and power we've not been that hot on military and I am growing ever more tempted to DEUS VULT the neighbors.

[] [Mega] Gain at least two Technologies
Grab-bag could be neat.

[] [Govern] Provinces shall be ruled over by Sacred Guardian-Generals who rule as Cadlons over their province and answer to Cadlon, who is responsible for the whole of the Arthwyd.
Feeling like this SHOULD be a fairly good idea going forward, but maybe someone else will say why this is a bad idea?

[X][Religion] No. The Council of Arthryn shall be independent of the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.
[X][Mega] Gain at least two Technologies
[X][Law] Regulating Authority
[X][Govern] Provinces shall be ruled over by Sacred Guardian-Generals who rule as Cadlons over their province and answer to Cadlon, who is responsible for the whole of the Arthwyd.
[X][GA] Unlock the Great Market Place Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -2 Temp Wealth)

I went with this for a few reasons.

Most of them has to do with Caermyr.

First off, I want to tie her Authority and Legitimacy to the Cadlon - let her see that she's accounted for and acknowledged by the system. Secondly, I want to unlock and build that Great Market Place in her city - if she sees a visible sign of what benefits being part of Arthwyd brings than that may satisfy her.

[X][GA] Unlock the Aqueduct Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
[X][Govern] Provinces shall be ruled over by Sacred Guardian-Generals who rule as Cadlons over their province and answer to Cadlon, who is responsible for the whole of the Arthwyd.
[X][Law] Justice and Fairness
[X] [Law] Practical Enforcement
[X][Mega] Gain a new Martial-related Value

[X] [Religion] No. The Council of Arthryn shall be independent of the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.

[X] [Mega] Gain a new Martial-related Value
[X] [Mega] Upgrade a random Value
[X] [Mega] Gain a random Hero.
[X] [Mega] Gain at least two Technologies

[X] [Law] Communal Good
[X] [Law] Regulating Authority
[X] [Law] Justice and Fairness
[X] [Law] Flexibility and Adaptability

[X] [Govern] The Cadlon governs with a council of advisors with the authority to check their power.
[X] [Govern] The Cadlon shall rule with an assembly of important priests, warriors and elders to advise them and check their power.

Cabinet system or early senate, no dictators or feudal bullshit. That's how we get aristocrats. Well senate too, but less so then the other.


[X] [GA] Unlock the Aqueduct Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
[X] [GA] Gain random nautical technology advancement. (-1 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Mystic)

[X] [Law] Justice and Fairness

Justice in this era is not a given; since this vote is about the spirit and intent behind the laws I would prefer to put this above all else.

Why Regulating Authority over Communal Good? We did the latter in PoC and it turned out well for us, and it combos well with our religion.

veekie said:

Noting a few trends we know from RL religions, without supernatural backing:
-Cosmopolitan belief systems do not tend to last. Their tendency to be open to new ideas means that its only a matter of time before they absorb an idea that says "we're perfect as we are" or some variant.

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What real life cosmopolitan belief systems did you draw from to bring you to this conclusion?

Raichu1972 said:

[X] [Law] Justice and Fairness

Justice in this era is not a given; since this vote is about the spirit and intent behind the laws I would prefer to put this above all else.

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You know what? Fair point.

[X][Religion] No. The Council of Arthryn shall be independent of the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.
[X][Mega] Gain at least two Technologies
[X] [Law] Justice and Fairness
[X][Govern] Provinces shall be ruled over by Sacred Guardian-Generals who rule as Cadlons over their province and answer to Cadlon, who is responsible for the whole of the Arthwyd.
[X][GA] Unlock the Great Market Place Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -2 Temp Wealth)

Gino said:

Cabinet system or early senate, no dictators or feudal bullshit. That's how we get aristocrats. Well senate too, but less so then the other.

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Also with this, while I agree with you, I do want to ensure that Queen Eira is represented in the system. So even if we want to go with the council/senate over nascent fuedalism I still want her to have a place.

So maybe, @Oshha, how does this sound?

[] [Govern] The Cadlon shall rule with an assembly of important priests, warriors and elders to advise them and check their power. Any and all Sacred FGaurdian-Generals have seats on this council.

Not only does she still rule but she now has the ear of the Cadlon too.

BlueFlamingWings said:

So maybe, @Oshha, how does this sound?

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Sort of already included. A Sacred Guardian-General like Eira is important and high enough to have a place on the assembly anyway. Plus they already answer directly to the Cadlon.

[X] [Law] Justice and Fairness
[X] [Mega] Gain a random Hero.
[X] [GA] Gain random administration technology advancement. (-1 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)

That marketplace is not nearly as important as a library. Or a theater for that matter. We've upgraded our economy once already. We can wait for another turn or two to unlock a marketplace.

Oshha said:

Sort of already included. A Sacred Guardian-General like Eira is important and high enough to have a place on the assembly anyway. Plus they already answer directly to the Cadlon.

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Fair enough then.

[X][Religion] No. The Council of Arthryn shall be independent of the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.
[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blood of Evalyn.
[X] [Law] Justice and Fairness
[X] [Govern] The Cadlon shall rule with an assembly of important priests, warriors and elders to advise them and check their power.
[X][GA] Unlock the Great Market Place Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -2 Temp Wealth)

BlueFlamingWings said:

[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blood of Evalyn.X] [Law] Justice and Fairness

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You have botched your vote there.

Oshha said:

You have botched your vote there.

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Fixed.

[X] [Religion] No. The Council of Arthryn shall be independent of the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.

[X] [Mega] Gain a random Hero.
[X] [Mega] Gain at least two Technologies
[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blood of Evalyn.

[X] [Law] Communal Good
[X] [Law] Justice and Fairness
[X] [Law] Flexibility and Adaptability

[X] [Govern] The Cadlon shall rule with an assembly of important priests, warriors and elders to advise them and check their power.

[X][GA] Gain random administration technology advancement. (-1 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)

[X][GA] Unlock the Aqueduct Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
[X][Govern] Provinces shall be ruled over by Sacred Guardian-Generals who rule as Cadlons over their province and answer to Cadlon, who is responsible for the whole of the Arthwyd.
[X][Law] Justice and Fairness
[X][Mega] Gain a new Martial-related Value

I'll vote aqueducts both because i want them and to spite the ''aqueducts are bad" dudes from PoC, whatever they may be doing right now.

Legion0047 said:

I'll vote aqueducts both because i want them and to spite the ''aqueducts are bad" dudes from PoC, whatever they may be doing right now.

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There are "aqueduct are bad" dudes in PoC?

[X] [Religion] No. The Council of Arthryn shall be independent of the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.
[X] [Mega] Gain at least two Technologies
[X] [Law] Regulating Authority
[X] [Law] Justice and Fairness
[X] [Govern] Provinces shall be ruled over by Sacred Guardian-Generals who rule as Cadlons over their province and answer to Cadlon, who is responsible for the whole of the Arthwyd.
[X][GA] Unlock the Aqueduct Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)

[X][Religion] No. The Council of Arthryn shall be independent of the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.
[X][Mega] Gain at least two Technologies
[X][GA] Gain random administration technology advancement. (-1 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
[X][Govern] The Cadlon shall rule with an assembly of important priests, warriors and elders to advise them and check their power.

[x] [Religion] No. The Council of Arthryn shall be independent of the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.

[x] [Mega] Upgrade a random Value
[x] [Mega] Gain a random Hero.
[x] [Mega] Gain at least two Technologies

[x] [Law] Arthryn and her Daughters
[x] [Law] Maintaining Stability
[x] [Law] Communal Good
[x] [Law] Regulating Authority
[x] [Law] Justice and Fairness

[X] [Govern] The Cadlon shall rule with an assembly of important priests, warriors and elders to advise them and check their power.

[x] [GA] Unlock the Grand Library Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)

[X] [Religion] No. The Council of Arthryn shall be independent of the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.


[X] [Mega] Gain at least two Technologies
[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blood of Evalyn.

[X] [Law] Communal Good
[X] [Law] Justice and Fairness
[X] [Law] Flexibility and Adaptability

[X] [Govern] The Cadlon shall rule with an assembly of important priests, warriors and elders to advise them and check their power.

[X] [GA] Unlock the Great Market Place Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -2 Temp Wealth)
[X] [GA] Unlock the Aqueduct Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)

[X][Religion] Yes. The Council of Arthryn shall answer to the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.
[X][Mega] Gain a new Martial-related Value
[X][GA] Unlock the Great Market Place Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -2 Temp Wealth)
[X][Govern] Provinces shall be ruled over by Sacred Guardian-Generals who rule as Cadlons over their province and answer to Cadlon, who is responsible for the whole of the Arthwyd.
[X][Law] Justice and Fairness

Kiba said:

There are "aqueduct are bad" dudes in PoC?

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That was a long time ago in Paths of Civilisation.
God that was some fuckery, but basically some people didn't understand how math works and thought that building aqueducts would lead to a lose state as they'd all pop to become true cities and eat our econ and starve our civilisation to death even though thats explicit not how that worked at all.

[X][Religion] No. The Council of Arthryn shall be independent of the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.
[X][Mega] Gain at least two Technologies
[X][Law] Justice and Fairness
[X][Govern] The Cadlon shall rule with an assembly of important priests, warriors and elders to advise them and check their power.
[X][GA] Unlock the Aqueduct Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)

Vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest - Original | Page 449 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 11206-11267]
##### NetTally 1.9.7
Task: Religion
[X][Religion] No. The Council of Arthryn shall be independent of the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.
No. of Votes: 18
[X][Religion] Yes. The Council of Arthryn shall answer to the Cadlon of the Arthwyd.
No. of Votes: 4

---

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Mega
[X][Mega] Gain at least two Technologies
No. of Votes: 17
[X][Mega] Gain a new Martial-related Value
No. of Votes: 11
[X][Mega] Gain a random Hero.
No. of Votes: 8
[X][Mega] Upgrade the Blood of Evalyn.
No. of Votes: 7
[X][Mega] Upgrade a random Value
No. of Votes: 5
[X][Mega] Gain a new random Value
No. of Votes: 4

---

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Law
[X][Law] Justice and Fairness
No. of Votes: 21
[X][Law] Regulating Authority
No. of Votes: 12
[X][Law] Flexibility and Adaptability
No. of Votes: 9
[X][Law] Communal Good
No. of Votes: 7
[X][Law] Practical Enforcement
No. of Votes: 6
[x][Law] Arthryn and her Daughters
No. of Votes: 1
[x][Law] Maintaining Stability
No. of Votes: 1

---

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Govern
[X][Govern] The Cadlon shall rule with an assembly of important priests, warriors and elders to advise them and check their power.
No. of Votes: 17
[X][Govern] Provinces shall be ruled over by Sacred Guardian-Generals who rule as Cadlons over their province and answer to Cadlon, who is responsible for the whole of the Arthwyd.
No. of Votes: 8
[X][Govern] The Cadlon governs with a council of advisors with the authority to check their power.
No. of Votes: 5

---

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: GA
[X][GA] Unlock the Aqueduct Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
No. of Votes: 19
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Library Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
No. of Votes: 15
[X][GA] Unlock the Great Market Place Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -2 Temp Wealth)
No. of Votes: 11
[X][GA] Gain random administration technology advancement. (-1 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
No. of Votes: 7
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
No. of Votes: 7
[X][GA] Gain random nautical technology advancement. (-1 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Mystic)
No. of Votes: 4
[X][GA] Upgrade a random Value. (-2 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Culture, -1 Temp Mystic)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][GA] Gain a random Value. (-2 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Culture, -1 Temp mystic)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][GA] Gain random military technology advancement. (-1 Temp Econ, -2 Temp Martial,)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][GA] Discover a new mine location. (-2 Temp Econ, -2 Temp Martial)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][GA] Upgrade Baby Boom to a Population Explosion. (-2 Temp Econ, -2 Temp Martial)
No. of Votes: 1
[X][GA] Improve relations with all neighbours. (-6 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
No. of Votes: 1
[X][GA] Gain random general technology advancement. (-1 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Mystic)
No. of Votes: 1
[X][GA] Gain random social concept advancement. (-1 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
No. of Votes: 1
[X][GA] Gain random magical knowledge advancement. (-1 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 30

Why are we voting for an aqueduct? Isn't a library more important?