-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- Australia
You'll want to add double downs and expedites.
- Location
- United states
1) Don't act like it would in fact be a waste. Even if he can't do much if anything about it now the research can help him boost his stats in learning by gaining traits which would help with all future research. And you seem to be ignoring that it could in fact be improved upon.
a. We won't know how long it would take to do the research until we do and as I mentioned we would probably skip the life extension research considering that they would live on Avernus and most of them likely wouldn't make it past 200 years. Which isn't bad since that's still insane by most standards and our Last Hunters live that long as well and they are noted to be among the best agents in the Trust.
2) No, they both have their strengths and if we fixed the TWs issues then they would actually be superior to SMs in more areas.
3) Again, bad argument since that can apply to literally every thing we can look into.
4) And? Nothing is stopping us from looking into them once we are done. After all we did spend a number of biologis actions on Super Soldiers in the past already.
5) It cost a lot to make elite warriors and gear. Which changes nothing since that's pretty much been going on throughout the entire quest.
6) And Space Marines are their own thing. It's like saying that we shouldn't have worked on the Last Hunters because we already had SMs.
7) The Emperor made a lot of questionable choices so you can't just use that kind of logic as gospel.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Let's look historically:
Life Eater Fungus got us LEF Deathstrikes which was used to tremendous effect in the Valinor Crusade. And also reduced LEF casualties, improving pop growth.
Blink Spider got us the Blink Power.
Phase Tigers got us the Phase Power. And got us tamable Phase Tigers.
Gnaw Worms got us better Gnaw defences, improving pop growth.
Krakens opened up a new research path.
Bombardment Cacti got us more population growth because of their aphrodisiac.
Dragon Turtles got us better poison gasses.
Island Turtle provided progress on super-hard organics.
Thundabeasts got us Thundabeast riders.
Implantation Spider avoidi a diplomatic FUBAR.
Berserk Fungus was used to great effect against Valinor.
Nog provided a 10% Food production boost across the entire Trust, so great an effect that Midgard was happy and Aflheim was scared.
Spiderbane Dragonfly improved population morale and population growth.
Beergrass QUINTIPLED Alfheim's Bio-Promethium production.
Mycenids provided a Population Growth bonus.
Tyrant Lizards got us Bio Lasers.
Psyrodactyls reduced Biologis deathrates.
Titan Scorpion reduced deathrates from Titan Scorpion.
Illusion Pine provided a really good Fortification project.
Poison Lichen provided a decrease in upkeep.
Carniflowers provided a fortification project.
Dragonfruit reduced casulaties.
Honeypot Lily gave us wildlife bait.
The greater majority of wildlife research gave us useful results, practically all of them. Some of them, like Mycenids, Implantation Spider, Spiderbane, Beergrass, Nogs, Blink Spiders, Phase Tigers, Life-Eater Fungus etc were a lot more useful than others, of course, but that's the nature of things.
Don't diss of the Biologis.
Last edited:
In Case of Emergency, Press Play
- Location
- The internet
In Case of Emergency, Press Play
+++Input Pass-code: ***********************+++
+++Pass-code accepted+++
+++Input Secondary Authentication: TheBirdDoesNotExist+++
+++ Secondary Authentication confirmed+++
+++Input Tertiary Authentication: ThePeacockHasAStomachache+++
+++Tertiary Authentication Confirmed+++
+++Input Quaternary Authentication: WarIsAnInvertebrate+++
+++Quaternary Authentication Confirmed+++
+++Input Quinary Authentication: TheToadCannotSeeTheBlind+++
+++Quinary Authentication Confirmed+++
+++Enter Final Authentication: TheEndIsNeverTheEnd+++
+++Final Authentication Confirmed+++
+++Enter Septenary Authentication: DragonsEatFalseEmperors+++
+++All Authorizations Accepted. Opening Data Packet+++
+++Thought of the Day: Ignorance is never an excuse+++
I am Vulkan, Son of the Emperor, Primarch of the XVIII Legion, Administrator Quartus Imperium, and this is a message that I very much hope will never see the light of day. Yet hope in such times is a fragile thing, so I must assume that what I feared has indeed come to pass. As you have no doubt been made aware, a dire threatens the bearers of this message, The Imperial Trust. I do not know the nature of this threat, for this contingency was laid years if not decades or centuries ago. Yet my trust in their capabilities and judgement is such that I have no doubt as to the validity and urgency of the situation they lay before you.
You are undoubtedly wondering how they came to my attention. You have also likely noticed their advanced technology. That technology was overwhelmingly acquired by the Imperial Trust through a various means, and the Trust passed these technologies to my brothers and I act considerable expense and risk in order to help humanity as a whole. This technology transfer substantially increased the economic, industrial and military potential of humanity with a corresponding increase in the long term survivability of our race as a free and uncorrupted force. I and my Brothers owe them a debt I am uncertain that we will ever be able to repay.
I will not ask you to aid them to settle a debt to my brothers and I however. It is my formal opinion that the Imperial Trusts represents a strategically valuable source of technological and psykic assistance to Humanity and as such its preservation as a viable entity is of significant importance. Therefor, I order you to provide all requested assistance to ensure the survival of the Imperial Trust. My apologies.
Emperor Protects,
Primarch Vulkan
@Durin: Made a thing.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
May I ask what you would prefer? My plan doesn't have the Impalers or Thunder Warriors.
- Location
- USA
I can tell you in the morning I have a bad headache atm and am going to bed.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
1. With regard to the Tyranid Hive fleet it is in fact a total waste of time, because no improvement can be realistically implemented before the Nids arrive. With regard to the greater galaxy any power which wanted to use TWs would research out their flaws. With regard to getting traits from this particular action, that argument is perfectly and equally valid for researching Avernus.
a. We have estimates from the Biologist himself that it would take ~Century to implement anything.
2. Thunder Warriors are, in Vinceo's own words, essentially a less refined version of Astartes.
3. No other power will research Avernite wildlife. No other planet will research Avernite Wildlife. Only Avernus and Avernus alone will research Avernite wildlife.
4. You want us to GIVE UP DECADES TO A CENTURY OF RESEARCHING WILDLIFE. TO POSSIBLY IMPROVE A PRODUCT WHICH WAS DITCHED.
5. 1 TW costs more to make than to equip 50 Helguard.
6. Thunder Warriors are inferior to Space Marines, per Vinceo.
7. And Corax also didn't use Thunder Warriors instead of Space Marines.
- Location
- Lowton
Well personally I am voting for enjou to finish the basic impaler tech tree now as I do like the reasoning behind it but i do not particularly care for the TW. That and if we don't do the impaler now we never will.
I hope that helps explain why I am currently voting the way I am. Though I am tempted by Andres plan.
Besides that enjou's plan also has a space for counter intelligence which is becoming more important now. Though I do say that I like investigating the bastard dragon over TW.
Last edited:
- Location
- Berkeley
So, decided to calculate out the success chance for Lin's examination of the Primordial Sea assuming we devote our full attention to it.
Base success chance: -75, therefore DC is 175
Stat bonuses is from average of learning and piety. Learning = 47, piety = 57, so the bonus should be 47 still (as it looks like for dual stats the bonus is (Stat1 + Stat2 - 10) / 2)
Trait bonuses: +15 from A Final Flash, +20 from Scholar of the Deeper Secrets (I recall Durin verifying that this was a relevant trait), +5 from Bearer of Dark Secrets (assuming studying the Primordial Sea counts as an action dealing with Chaos). Total = +40
Situational Bonus: +10 from Areatha. +?? from omake(s). +??? from anything else we can get.
From 2x DD, we get another +40
Therefore, the formula for our overall roll is:
d100 + 47 (stats) + 40 (traits) + 10 (situational) + 40 (DDs) + ?? + ???
= d100 + 137 + ?? + ???
Given the magic number for success is 175, based on this we'll succeed if our roll is 38 or higher, minus whatever other bonuses we can stack on. As within 10 is generally a bare failure, odds are we have a minimum of a 62% chance of success and a maximum of a 28% chance of things going significantly tits up. This is neglecting any omake bonuses, which there should be one for already.
I have some hope that finishing the research on created gods will give us a trait or trait upgrade, as that action should have us having learned about all types of gods, and it's theoretically possible that our current research on the Primal Warp and/or the Laws of the Warp might give some sort of bonus to this action as well.
Overall, I would say that this suggests that while it is a risky option, it's already to the point where said action is not a likely catastrophe—we have noticibly better than even odds of passing as long as we both devote both Lin actions to it and double down, and the odds of a failure with negative consequences are probably below 25%.
This, of course, depends on the bonuses in question being accurate though. Given that we probably aren't planning on doing it this turn I don't see any reason to bug Durin over that now, but when the time comes where looking into the Primordial Sea is more feasible we should verify my assumptions here.
Base success chance: -75, therefore DC is 175
Stat bonuses is from average of learning and piety. Learning = 47, piety = 57, so the bonus should be 47 still (as it looks like for dual stats the bonus is (Stat1 + Stat2 - 10) / 2)
Trait bonuses: +15 from A Final Flash, +20 from Scholar of the Deeper Secrets (I recall Durin verifying that this was a relevant trait), +5 from Bearer of Dark Secrets (assuming studying the Primordial Sea counts as an action dealing with Chaos). Total = +40
Situational Bonus: +10 from Areatha. +?? from omake(s). +??? from anything else we can get.
From 2x DD, we get another +40
Therefore, the formula for our overall roll is:
d100 + 47 (stats) + 40 (traits) + 10 (situational) + 40 (DDs) + ?? + ???
= d100 + 137 + ?? + ???
Given the magic number for success is 175, based on this we'll succeed if our roll is 38 or higher, minus whatever other bonuses we can stack on. As within 10 is generally a bare failure, odds are we have a minimum of a 62% chance of success and a maximum of a 28% chance of things going significantly tits up. This is neglecting any omake bonuses, which there should be one for already.
I have some hope that finishing the research on created gods will give us a trait or trait upgrade, as that action should have us having learned about all types of gods, and it's theoretically possible that our current research on the Primal Warp and/or the Laws of the Warp might give some sort of bonus to this action as well.
Overall, I would say that this suggests that while it is a risky option, it's already to the point where said action is not a likely catastrophe—we have noticibly better than even odds of passing as long as we both devote both Lin actions to it and double down, and the odds of a failure with negative consequences are probably below 25%.
This, of course, depends on the bonuses in question being accurate though. Given that we probably aren't planning on doing it this turn I don't see any reason to bug Durin over that now, but when the time comes where looking into the Primordial Sea is more feasible we should verify my assumptions here.
Last edited:
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
[X] Plan Shard T127
Look, I like the Thunder Warriors. They're cool, and the idea of poshuman supersoldiers who literally move faster than they can think is badass, but this really isn't the time to try and figure out what we could do to fix them. Maybe after this all blows over, but for now we just need to focus on trying things that have a chance of giving us applicable benefits in the coming wars.
Look, I like the Thunder Warriors. They're cool, and the idea of poshuman supersoldiers who literally move faster than they can think is badass, but this really isn't the time to try and figure out what we could do to fix them. Maybe after this all blows over, but for now we just need to focus on trying things that have a chance of giving us applicable benefits in the coming wars.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
[X] Plan Shard T127
- Location
- Australia
I think we should ask Zahak for help with the Primordial Sea. She helped Ridcully before, so she might be able to help Lin with this. She's also part of a rather sizeable alliance of minor gods, who may have some pieces of relevant lore or other potential contributions to assist in his studies. We should make sure to bring this up at the High Council meeting.
- Location
- United states
...You are aware that Biologis literally means someone who works in biology instead of just animals? That literally what it means. Anyway going to point out some things:
A few of those things are things we are unlikely to do. Don't remember how much we actually benefited from the Kraken thing since the ocean is full of things that even Avernnites want to avoid. The cacti couldn't actually be used much since it was too expansive IIRC, we rarely use the bezerker fungus for a number of reasons and I only remember us using it once, the bio lasers aren't actually that useful in the vast majority of situations, the pine project is something we are unlikely to ever do due to how long it would take and as I mentioned with the Nog they aren't actually that useful in long run considering our food tech gives collosal boosts which I pointed out earlier.
Sure the wildlife projects helped in a number of ways but so do a number of things we do and have done. And for the last time I'm not saying that the wildlife projects are totally useless. We can still do them if we work on the TWs. You keep acting like we aren't going to be doing those projects while ignoring that a biologic job isn't limited to wildlife.
- Location
- madison
we can't. we have one Biologis slot. if we do it, for the next century or so, we won't be doing anything else.
There is also the issue of timing. We are essentially making sure our Biologis is going to spend most of the lead up to the nids arrival busy, for something that is of questionable value, and very long term.
Last edited:
- Location
- Australia
We have the Free mechanicus action. We can do other Biologis actions with that, theoretically.
- Location
- madison
even if we can, we will never do so. because there will always be something more important.
John Masaki
The Guy With the Lightsaber
- Location
- Atlantis
I concur on this.
WHY in the world are we spending valuable Mago Biologis resources on the Thunder Warriors when, you know, we have TYRANIDS AT OUR DOORSTEPS! Gaah. Let's get the important stuff out of the way and then when we have some time, we can do them when we don't have pressing existential threats at hand.
I'm going with Shard, too.
[X] Plan Shard T127
@Shard, I think we should change the Personal Attention: Thunder Warrior thing to something else.
Maybe either Power Armored PDF: Scout or Administrative Shakeup.
Last edited:
- Location
- Australia
It's funny. Biologis actions have never been considered important before. It's almost never received the free Mechanicus action. Only now when it'll get locked up for a long time has it begun to be appreciated by people.
Not casting judgement here or anything, just noting a peculiar and interesting thing.
Not casting judgement here or anything, just noting a peculiar and interesting thing.
- Location
- madison
Doing flaws of thunder now is what baffles me. we are 30 years out from a massive fight, and we're taking a 22-year action that is explicitly the first step in a very long chain. We should be trying for either boots or at least keeping our biologs action free to use when ant nid stuff comes up.
John Masaki
The Guy With the Lightsaber
- Location
- Atlantis
Reason for the Power Armor PDF:
By Avernus' Spine, folks! It's way past time to roll out the power armored troops! We keep doing the shinies and neglecting our basic ground-pounding trooper who are at the front lines of all our wars, including the war against Avernus' wildlife! It's time to upgrade our entire military with the power armor! I'm just starting with the cheaper ones for now.
Reason for an Administrative Shakeup:
Administration is still what Rothbart does best, so bumping up that Admin capability now and then should be good. I wonder what'd happen if we get Admin efficiency over 100%...
So either one will do well for our PA slot this turn instead of this...Thunder Warrior thing.
Or maybe do PA: Admin Shakeup on Year 2 and the PDF upgrade on Year Four...
By Avernus' Spine, folks! It's way past time to roll out the power armored troops! We keep doing the shinies and neglecting our basic ground-pounding trooper who are at the front lines of all our wars, including the war against Avernus' wildlife! It's time to upgrade our entire military with the power armor! I'm just starting with the cheaper ones for now.
Reason for an Administrative Shakeup:
Administration is still what Rothbart does best, so bumping up that Admin capability now and then should be good. I wonder what'd happen if we get Admin efficiency over 100%...
So either one will do well for our PA slot this turn instead of this...Thunder Warrior thing.
Or maybe do PA: Admin Shakeup on Year 2 and the PDF upgrade on Year Four...
Last edited:
- Location
- United states
How many times does it need to be said we aren't actually sure how long it would take until we actually do it? Seriously, people thought that just looking into making TWs would take a lot longer than it did with it only turning out to be 12 years in game which is just over 2 turns.
1) would people stop using the argument that other polities are maybe going to research something as an excuse to not do it ourselves? That is a rage inducing argument since people keep pointing out that it definitely applies to every single thing we can research and by that logic we shouldn't bother with anything not native with Avernus. There are a number of reasons that the other polities wouldn't want to research something since they may just want to do something else A good example is how our psykes are geared a lot more towards combat as a whole while the other polities are more support in general with most of our stuff being incompatible with how they do things. Also considering that Maximus has been researching animals for decades and still isn't even in the 40s don't think wildlife is as likely to work as working on something as complex to gain stats.
a) No, the estimates were maybe and it wasn't for anything but IIRC to fix everything.
2) And you keep ignoring the fact that the TWs are actually superior to SMs in a few areas to the point that a few are able to easily kill several when outnumbered with low quality gear relative to SMs. They just each have their own benefits. Fixing their issues would still make them better than SMs in a few areas. The areas SMs have over TWs are longevity, Warp resistance, reflexes and reproduction. Fixing the reflex and longevity issue would just leave the resistand and reproduction advantage.
3) And we can still do that once we are done. Why is that so hard to get.
4) No, we aren't totally sure until we do the research and as I mentioned it may not take as long as people think like with how people assumed that just researching TWs would take longer. And as I pointed out we can just not fix the life expentancy issue to save time.
5) And in canon TWs can be worth more than SMs even if not in general. Fixing their issues would make them even more valuable.
6) No, they are inferior in a few areas and have better strengths in others and as I keep pointing out that improving them would increase their value and put them closer to SMs.
7) He had the freaking Trueborn which can only be made from materials from the Primarchs themselves. Note, that TWs are noted to be physically as powerful as TBs.
Last edited: