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A Little Trouble in Big China - A Chinese Warlord Quest

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BurningLaugh said:
yep which is why Marshall status would've helped out. If the two went to war then they would have to go around into less industrialized provinces or attack a neutral zone and both of them would be declared traitors
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Poor Chahar, hypothetically! And I guess that Fang person, whoever's ruling it. I need to use the search function.
kilopi505 said:
I guess it's really time you guys convert from Empire to Constitutional Monarchy if shenanigans like these happen every update in Qing land.
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I mean, the problem here seems to be that warlords are acting at the expense of each other due to how military and governing power is so decentralized. That would be a problem whether or not the state was lead by an emperor or a parliament, because in either case the central authority can't really tell them to knock off as it doesn't have the troops and power itself for that.
 
BurningLaugh said:
I would be down with it, but we're in the middle of a great schism and are facing a possible civil war!
reforming the government so drastically is not in our best interests especially since IC it would just cause the warlords and the Marshalls to split even more
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Not if every Qing player votes Constitutional Monarchy at the same time.
 
BurningLaugh said:
Dude don't start a war. Wait like 1 or 2 more turns and see how things develop before you immediately force a military schism that will doom Qing and send us back by years of progress
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I mean, as it stands now that waiting would mean decaying productive capability while Wu is on notice of his intentions and rising so... it may be best for Qing, but it's not really best for his character unless he can find another way in high power that doesn't rely on being a warlord.
 
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BurningLaugh said:
Dude don't start a war. Wait like 1 or 2 more turns and see how things develop before you immediately force a military schism that will doom Qing and send us back by years of progress
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Wait for what? Impoverishment? Dissolved army? I mean you seen how "interested" Wu is in dealing, what do you want?
 
Kipeci said:
I mean, as it stands now that waiting would mean becoming more impoverished while Wu is on notice of his intentions so... it may be best for Qing, but it's not really best for his character unless he can find another way in high power that doesn't rely on being a warlord.
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Would you be down for waiting if Prince Churn call for an Imperial Meeting to discuss the new tax on goods moving through Wu's land. This would allow the topic to be discussed by the Imperial Court, which will lead to either the tax being lifted or mitigated
 
BurningLaugh said:
They don't vote for not having one either. They just know that the discussion over such a topic is best left for when the war is over
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There's only three of you guys playing Qing. 18 separate choices going "Support Con-Mon!" all the way is going to bulldoze any low number dice rolls.

I find it impossible to have 18 consecutive 0 number dice rolls.
 
BurningLaugh said:
Would you be down for waiting if Prince Churn call for an Imperial Meeting to discuss the new tax on goods moving through Wu's land. This would allow the topic to be discussed by the Imperial Court, which will lead to either the tax being lifted or mitigated
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I don't really have a dog in that fight, as I'm voting Zongchang. Good luck in resolution though because I think Xueliang is not well liked by Qing court anyway and if he does show up that seems like a way to get executed since it's firmly in Wu's region of influence, unless he brought his army there which also seems counterproductive.
 
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Kipeci said:
I don't really have a dog in that fight, as I'm voting Zongchang. Good luck in resolution though because I think Xueliang is not well liked by Qing court anyway and if he does show up that seems like a way to get executed since it's firmly in Wu's region of influence, unless he brought his army there which also seems counterproductive.
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Best way to prevent that is for the Emperor to call the meeting and prohibit or allow both parties to bring their military. Prohibit most likely as the Imperial Guard will defend the meeting place though members would most likely be allowed to bring 1-3 guards
 
BurningLaugh said:
Would you be down for waiting if Prince Churn call for an Imperial Meeting to discuss the new tax on goods moving through Wu's land. This would allow the topic to be discussed by the Imperial Court, which will lead to either the tax being lifted or mitigated
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A single action from EVERY Qing voter dedicated to attending imperial court and sorting this out in an objective fashion. As sign of good faith i will risk death first.
@Atlanta-Georgia Suggestion?

[X] Zhang Xueliang
-[X] Plan Imperial Court
--[X] Sponsor new rail line from Jehol clique across non-hostile clique land to connect to broader Qing market. Collaborate with central government and non-hostile cliques to have it built quickly, rail line construction will be managed by foreign experts. Ownership is in share format, private group/government/clique can buy shares by money / rights to use the land/ material / labor. Jehol will trade out its own share, try to keep around 1/10th owned shares, with various non-hostile clique and central government to clear the way. Jehol will not gain ownership of any land in this business.
--[X] Invest in new and better infrastructures, also sell this business to surrounding non-hostile land.
--[X] Expand the technical college to include training of more productive workers in bulk. Encourage everyone and their friends & families within enclaves to work towards higher paying specialist jobs.
--[X] Encourage the industrialists to invest in the factories and produce more advance products. Radios, trains, and trucks will have very high demand.
--[X] Use this sudden overproduction to form connections with budding industries, business, cities and towns; we have goods to offload and you need some help to improve your standing among your peers. Built connections across China.
--[X] Attend the imperial court in person and bring the unfair treatment of Xueliang by Marshal Wu to the attention of the emperor. Xueliang will make it clear that he have no ambition in high politics and just want to keep the displaced Manchurian people happy. Point to the productive working relationship with the Prime Minister years past and stress that Xueliang did not discriminate. (Leave sealed order with Xu Shichang that the clique will swear allegiance to the Emperor should Xueliang gets killed.)
 
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VoidZero said:
A single action from EVERY Qing voter dedicated to attending imperial court and sorting this out in an objective fashion. As sign of good faith i will risk death first.
@Atlanta-Georgia Suggestion?

[X] Zhang Xueliang
-[X] Plan Imperial Court
--[X] More soldiers through recruitment campaign. Cite good salary and benefits.
--[X] Invest in enclaves infrastructures, build tall then wide.
--[X] Expand the college(s), add medical branch with foreign hires.
--[X] Encourage the industrialists to invest in the factories and produce more advance products. Radios, trains, and trucks will have very high demand.
--[X] Roll out the procured and produced equipment to the military. More machine guns, field cannons, and radios.
--[X] Attend the imperial court in person and bring the unfair treatment of Xueliang by Marshal Wu to the attention of the emperor. Xueliang will make it clear that he have no ambition in high politics and just want to keep the displaced Manchurian people happy. Point to the productive working relationship with the Prime Minister years past and stress that Xueliang did not discriminate.
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I fully approve of the new plan and I am editing my vote
 
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@Dadarian

This next turn is shaping to be some of an anomaly, seeing the unusual level of shifting arguments. Can you give a 24 hour early notice before the vote is called? It will be sad, but hilarious, if some voters didn't catch up before their plan is fully thought out.
 
VoidZero said:
A single action from EVERY Qing voter dedicated to attending imperial court and sorting this out in an objective fashion. As sign of good faith i will risk death first.
@Atlanta-Georgia Suggestion?

[X] Zhang Xueliang
-[X] Plan Imperial Court
--[X] More soldiers through recruitment campaign. Cite good salary and benefits.
--[X] Invest in enclaves infrastructures, build tall then wide.
--[X] Expand the college(s), add medical branch with foreign hires.
--[X] Encourage the industrialists to invest in the factories and produce more advance products. Radios, trains, and trucks will have very high demand.
--[X] Roll out the procured and produced equipment to the military. More machine guns, field cannons, and radios.
--[X] Attend the imperial court in person and bring the unfair treatment of Xueliang by Marshal Wu to the attention of the emperor. Xueliang will make it clear that he have no ambition in high politics and just want to keep the displaced Manchurian people happy. Point to the productive working relationship with the Prime Minister years past and stress that Xueliang did not discriminate.
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Thank you VoidZero.
I'll update my plan the minute I get my laptop. @Mortenkam
I have delivered to us a chance of peace! I highly suggest that you, as Prince Chun, use an action to summon the lords and host an Imperial Court Meeting.
 
BurningLaugh said:
Best way to prevent that is for the Emperor to call the meeting and prohibit or allow both parties to bring their military. Prohibit most likely as the Imperial Guard will defend the meeting place though members would most likely be allowed to bring 1-3 guards
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I mean... what's to stop an ambush in the vast expanse of Greater Zhili that the emperor doesn't have a direct hold on?

I guess there could be a meeting in neutral territory like Zhang Xun's area but it could also be harmful to the royal court to travel away from the palaces and out in public, much less control over potential assassins.
 
Kipeci said:
I mean... what's to stop an ambush in the vast expanse of Greater Zhili that the emperor doesn't have a direct hold on?

I guess there could be a meeting in neutral territory like Zhang Xun's area but it could also be harmful to the royal court to travel away from the palaces and out in public, much less control over potential assassins.
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Everybody taking the same train and being guarded by the Royal guard obviously. :V It's not like the PM have any interest in keeping the 2 vocal element in the court locked up. :V:V:V
 
VoidZero said:
Everybody taking the same train and being guarded by the Royal guard obviously. :V It's not like the PM have any interest in keeping the 2 vocal element in the court locked up. :V:V:V
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This kind of reminds me of what Chiang Kai-Shek did to get rid of warlords. He'd declare an area to be festering with communists and demand the warlord leave the area while the army swept it. The warlord would be out of the area and then they'd be away from their power base, or else become an obstacle to the government. As it turns out, a warlord without an army became fairly easy to demote...
 
Kipeci said:
This kind of reminds me of what Chiang Kai-Shek did to get rid of warlords. He'd declare an area to be festering with communists and demand the warlord leave the area while the army swept it. The warlord would be out of the area and then they'd be away from their power base, or else become an obstacle to the government. As it turns out, a warlord without an army became fairly easy to demote...
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I feel like you just want us to keep killing each other.
 
BurningLaugh said:
I feel like you just want us to keep killing each other.
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I'm just pointing out problems in the plans I'm seeing, as I've done the whole time I've been here. Obviously the war plans are also pretty bad, I don't think Xueliang can take on both Zhang Xun and Wu but that plan relies on invading your territory to connect the two exclaves. By pointing out bad spots, we can have better plans and avoid some of the worse reading experiences where everyone has a disaster.
 
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