Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest

[] Refuse this the undead abomination and reject all of the offers it is making. (???)

Principled, but we gave up the window of opportunity where it'd be feasible to attack them at all, barring hitting the Gunpowder Age or equivalent magic.
Spit defiance all you like, she's got her holdings fortified where we can't pry them out.
Remember, fighting undead in fortified forests.
It'd be worse than trying to siege through the Ymaryn. They have a permanent Martial Hero

[] Through a stolen body, the Daughters of Urth share the blood of the People. Demand that they be returned to the People. (+1 Legitimacy, ???)

The people she can possess basically freely and are devoted to Urth?
This is how you wind up with Urth as Undying God Empress

[] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

Domestication, not actually that difficult to gain by other means.

[] Urth is offering to have the Caradysh submit as a vassal to the Arthwyd. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

Vassals we can't hold, and are ultimately loyal to Urth.

[] Urth is offering to provide a regular supply of free information from the lowlands and beyond to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

Useful certainly, in eroding our isolationism. But its all filtered through Urth. So take it with a grain of salt.

[] Urth is offering to share his magical knowledge with the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

Mystic Hero Lich Queen offering magic lore...well, it'd be a useful addition. We can make it ours too.

[] Urth will provide regular tribute to the Arthwyd. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

Resources is always good, but odds are good the flow will cut off eventually. Still useful for rushing projects if we wanted that.


[X] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
[X] Urth is offering to share his magical knowledge with the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

I'll take either of the items which we can make our own.
Pressing this to the bitter end is satisfying but pointless.

Enemy Deification is a thing, we could literally hate Urth into divinity.

[X] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
[X] Urth is offering to share his magical knowledge with the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

[X] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
[X] Urth is offering to share his magical knowledge with the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
I trust the great golden beetle/agree with him- these are things we can swing around to our ends if need be/make use of without risking too much damage.

[X] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
[X] Urth is offering to share his magical knowledge with the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

Veekie's analysis is convincing.

Guys, why is Urth offering us anything? Right now at that, when we are not even attacking, let alone actually succeeding at attacking? Keeping in mind that we all know this is not over and we will fight again eventually.

The obvious answer is, Urth really does not want to be attacked right now. Why, we do not know. But if Urth doesn't want to be attacked right now, this is exactly the time when we must attack. Because our attack will certainly derail something important Urth is planning and that's just how we like it.

065tdsa said:

The obvious answer is, Urth really does not want to be attacked right now. Why, we do not know. But if Urth doesn't want to be attacked right now, this is exactly the time when we must attack. Because our attack will certainly derail something important Urth is planning and that's just how we like it.

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That is not the only possible explanation.

We don't know anything because we hadn't explored.

[X] Refuse this the undead abomination and reject all of the offers it is making. (???)
Korporati Votes For This.

Asuming Urth isn't gonna surprise attack us or want to get rid of us/our goddess/values if they become god, I'm on board with the current bandwagon.

[] Urth is offering to provide a regular supply of free information from the lowlands and beyond to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
[] Urth will provide regular tribute to the Arthwyd. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

These would make us depend on Urth and we don't want that.

[] Urth is offering to have the Caradysh submit as a vassal to the Arthwyd. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

This would give the Arthwyd an utterly false sense of security.

[] Through a stolen body, the Daughters of Urth share the blood of the People. Demand that they be returned to the People. (+1 Legitimacy, ???)

This could destroy our civ from inside.

So:

[X] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
[X] Urth is offering to share his magical knowledge with the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

065tdsa said:

Guys, why is Urth offering us anything? Right now at that, when we are not even attacking, let alone actually succeeding at attacking? Keeping in mind that we all know this is not over and we will fight again eventually.

The obvious answer is, Urth really does not want to be attacked right now. Why, we do not know. But if Urth doesn't want to be attacked right now, this is exactly the time when we must attack. Because our attack will certainly derail something important Urth is planning and that's just how we like it.

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Problem is, as I understand it, is that we can't attack into him and he can't attack into us, basically. He moves in to hit us, and the Goddesses will stone and break him. We move in and we get torn up because Necromancer Armies are really hard to fight into, what with factors like 'we can use plagues and nasty crap that screws up the living but the dead don't care about.
So for now, we back off because we've gotta regroup. He wants peace, I think to get the Maradysh back to him and more prominently figure out how to climb our mountain and become head God via culture, because he can just play 'friendly Urth' until our civy forgets why it hated him. The Goddesses screw that up because they were there for that, and they're just as permanent as he is.
Incidentally, I think this is what happened to Maradysh, not just right now with the 'Daughter' but also far earlier, when they once fought Urth- they fought, got wrecked, but Urth played 'friendly' until they dropped their grudge and accepted him. We picked up immigrants running away from Urth back then and their tales made us hate him back then.

[X] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
After the vundabar talk we had on discord.
Imma go for this.
The magic lore is liable to backfire as Urth will only give us what he thinks he can manage us having. Animals are better.

Knight Draco said:

[X] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
After the vundabar talk we had on discord.
Imma go for this.
The magic lore is liable to backfire as Urth will only give us what he thinks he can manage us having. Animals are better.

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And what was the talk, if you may share? -_-

Somebodynobody10 said:

And what was the talk, if you may share? -_-

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What veekie told you guys. Nothing involving oshha or getting extra info, just us debating the update dw.
Tho if oshha wants to tell us about how there are hundreds of catgirl civs that would be fine.

[X] Refuse this the undead abomination and reject all of the offers it is making. (???)

[X] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

[X] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
[X] Urth is offering to share his magical knowledge with the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

Knight Draco said:

The magic lore is liable to backfire as Urth will only give us what he thinks he can manage us having. Animals are better.

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well... that's obvious, is not like we gonna use it to get an assessment of their prowess.

Magic is magic, it's like they're gonna give us faulty magic as long as they want us to trust them. They're not a god yet, so it's not like they can't retain any control of their magic once they give it to us.

May it be somethign they consider insignificant?, good for us, we can develop it and surprise them; and even if we don't... surely Urth will give us something that is at leas somewhat useful, right? They're trying to get into our good side after all.

Ernest352 said:

well... that's obvious, is not like we gonna use it to get an assessment of their prowess.

Magic is magic, it's like they're gonna give us faulty magic as long as they want us to trust them. They're not a god yet, so it's not like they can't retain any control of their magic once they give it to us.

May it be somethign they consider insignificant?, good for us, we can develop it and surprise them; and even if we don't... surely Urth will give us something that is at leas somewhat useful, right? They're trying to get into our good side after all.

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They are trying to get us to stop bothering them.
Also a fair portion of these options have a way of costng them little or even working to their advantage.
I doubt urth, a mystic hero (and yeah a martial) would be the type to downplay the use of magic, especislly when its what got him to this point to begin with. (In regards to the body he has)
Sure it will be useful, but Urth knows the can give us magic and leave loopholes in the foundation he will hand us that he may exploit later. Its hard to go wrong with the animals.

[x] Refuse this the undead abomination and reject all of the offers it is making. (???)

[X] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
[X] Urth is offering to share his magical knowledge with the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

[X] Urth is offering to have the Caradysh submit as a vassal to the Arthwyd. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
[X] Urth is offering tamed animals from the lowlands as gifts to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)
[X] Urth is offering to share his magical knowledge with the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

Guys let's take a vassal here, this war really doesn't make any sense anyway as it is only loss of resources.
This way we can slowly add his people to Arthwyd pantheon and even if Urth ascends Arthryn can deal with him.
This is literally the best offer for us.

Okay so to help the decision along, a few major factors:
-Peace treaties are not in perpetuity in any civ game. Even if Urth were to hold to the pact eternally, in 3 turns a hundred years would have passed and the decisions are no longer as binding on the future rulers.
--This means that in essence, you should take Techs where possible for peace deals, because once you have them they're yours to study and master.
--This also means vassals are crap. Their true loyalty is unchanged. They obey you on paper

-Why does Urth want peace? PoC veterans will recall the Spirit Talkers doom. It wasn't much to do with their social or culture choices so much as they were stuck in an eternal holy war they can't stop, against an enemy they cannot destroy or be destroyed by because their preferred modes of combat suck in each other's territory. Which meant that everyone else AROUND them just teched past those two civs for as long as they were doing nothing but punching each other.

-Why do WE want peace? Our people are terrified. Our people are war weary. Remember our social values and you'll see why taking the peace deals generate Stability:
--Communal Unity: Continuing to sacrifice warriors into Urth's territory by attacking a fortified forest garrisoned by tireless undead harms the people to no result.
--Fair Treatment: Yes, the nature of their birth is most unholy, but we ARE actually committed to giving Urth's children a fair shake.
--Sacred Defense: This isn't triggered...but if we refuse peace this DOES trigger to enforce that we must fight or lose Legitimacy. We can't just refuse peace and then ignore Urth.

[X] Through a stolen body, the Daughters of Urth share the blood of the People. Demand that they be returned to the People. (+1 Legitimacy, ???)

[X] Refuse this the undead abomination and reject all of the offers it is making. (???)

[X] Urth is offering to provide a regular supply of free information from the lowlands and beyond to the People. (Chance of Gaining Stability, ???)

[X] Refuse this the undead abomination and reject all of the offers it is making. (???)

Deny the witch

[X] Refuse this the undead abomination and reject all of the offers it is making. (???)