Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%

  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
@Oshha, how serious is the whole "cultural divergence" thing the Merntir have going on right now? How has that progressed?

Are the Arthwyd using metal for anything besides copper tools? Like making jewelry from the silver or something to that effect?

Mostly just establishing their own local culture to avoid a slow de facto diplo-annex. Value wise, they pretty much got the same culture as the Arthwyd, but are more family leaning than the Arthwyd. They still consider themselves part of the People, but just consider themselves to be Merntir and not Arthwyd.

Yes.
 
It is the playstyle SV prefers, so of course they gravitate towards it.

Plus, it seems like a decent chunk of our voters haven't actually read PoC, so to them this is a fresh playstyle.
Basically the civ playstyles are: along the following extremes:
-Ultra negative centralization - Nomad Horde. This is basically suited to Chan-style questing, because it moves fast, you lose ALL the time, you win sometimes but you don't really keep anything.

-Negative Centralization - Greek/Italian City-States. Lots of small states which control a small radius around themselves, a common culture, and they all rival each other furiously.
--As its very difficult to get 'in character' as the civilization, people usually play as a single City-State with ambitions of eating all their neighbors and becoming an empire.
--Playing as the civ as a whole means having basically no control over your resource meters, all your components have lots of actions, of which they spend the majority slapping each other around to increase their chunk. Not sure how it can be made playable without becoming a molten salt reactor.

-Neutral Centralization - Confederacies and Federations. Lots of independent actors with independent resource pools under a common banner. They still rival each other, but not quite so aggressively lest their overall unity suffer.
--Playing under this mode means essentially, playing as NATO/UN council. You CAN get your components to do things by means of communal decisionmaking, but they WILL fuck off if you ask too much, too often, or hit one of their critical stumbling blocks. Playstyle is mostly trying to create incentives for them to do what you want(safe) or trying to force them in line(risky).
--We're actually this if you zoom out on our polity. Our vassals are two independent actors after all, which we can nudge but can only command in crisis.
--This was tried in PoC with Faction Actions. It went...less than swimmingly.

-Positive Centralization - Conventional Civilization-State. All significant elements of the civilization is under player command. Standard ruling council/monarchy/theocracy. No need to elaborate, as the default.

The intermediate states are hard to model and quests in general are loss adverse. All modes other than high centralization requires that we routinely lose in minor ways, and well...never going to go well.
 
As an argument for the Unity option over the Teacher option I would like to point out that this Temple is the first of it's kind, for us at least, and it will become the center of the Arthwyd faith as a whole.

I feel having it dedicated to only a single Goddess, even if it is the head, is a bad idea as it discounts the other four and I am not interested in such a thing as it may lead to them getting their own personal Temples and shrines as well. That sounds like a rather bad thing to me, that kind of seperation and division of faith. It could lead into serious issues down the line.
 
As an argument for the Unity option over the Teacher option I would like to point out that this Temple is the first of it's kind, for us at least, and it will become the center of the Arthwyd faith as a whole.

I feel having it dedicated to only a single Goddess, even if it is the head, is a bad idea as it discounts the other four and I am not interested in such a thing as it may lead to them getting their own personal Temples and shrines as well. That sounds like a rather bad thing to me, that kind of seperation and division of faith. It could lead into serious issues down the line.

But it is putting emphasis on her teachings so that future generations remember it.

Ad to it that schism may already be on its way with Merthyr putting emphasis on Arthryn.
 
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[X] Arthryn
-[X] The Teacher

[X] Bronwyn's Folly

Bah, a pox on Unity! It'll only end up reinforcing the monarchy. Don't pick the "stability over all else" option again!
 
But it is putting emphasis on her teachings , family of deities is what brought us in this situation in first place.

Ad to it that schism may already be on its way with Merthyr putting emphasis on Arthryn.
That's not my point. I'm saying that the Temple will become a place of worship for the religion as a whole, like a pocket sized Jerusalem, a holy site where everyone will come to pray. As such the whole Pantheon should be represented just like with every other shrine.

The Merntir are building a Statue of Arthryn, not a place of Worship. The Temple will be something people actually go to to pray and listen to the priests preach and such. The statue will just kind of be there not really doing anything beyond looking good. In other words the Temple has an actual use and function where as the statue is just kind of there.

Plus they can always add smaller statues of the others next to it or somewhere else in honor of them as well. Can't really do that with the Temple sense we are picking it's theme rather than its design.

Also as pointed out by Oshha a couple posts ago the Merntir aren't breaking away from us they are just reinforcing their identity as the Merntir rather than as Arthwyd. Thier loyalty is still listed as Very High for a reason.
Adhoc vote count started by UlseDovThur on Mar 1, 2019 at 2:45 AM, finished with 86 posts and 44 votes.
 
That's not my point. I'm saying that the Temple will become a place of worship for the religion as a whole, like a pocket sized Jerusalem, a holy site where everyone will come to pray. As such the whole Pantheon should be represented just like with every other shrine.

The Merntir are building a Statue of Arthryn, not a place of Worship. The Temple will be something people actually go to to pray and listen to the priests preach and such. The statue will just kind of be there not really doing anything beyond looking good. In other words the Temple has an actual use and function where as the statue is just kind of there.

Plus they can always add smaller statues of the others next to it or somewhere else in honor of them as well. Can't really do that with the Temple sense we are picking it's theme rather than its design.

Also as pointed out by Oshha a couple posts ago the Merntir aren't breaking away from us they are just reinforcing their identity as the Merntir rather than as Arthwyd. Thier loyalty is still listed as Very High for a reason.

And that holy site will be a place where message will be sent for civilization as a whole. While unity is good it doesn't send a message why did this happen and is only building a temple to appease Arthryns wrath not trying to fix the problem.
 
I'd strongly prefer Bronwyn's Folly. No monarchy for us, thank you!!!
Bronwyn's folly was not hereditary monarchy, it was establishing hereditary monarchy with the intention of benefitting her own family. Remembering her tale will do little to stop a royal family that has already taken root.

If I wasn't sure of this, I wouldn't be voting for it~<3
 
It will help prevent the Royal Family from getting to decadent and self-serving. Since monarchy is happening the best thing we can do is to go for noblesse oblige. Arthwyd must double down on the meme of a two-way social contract.
 
[X] Arthryn and her Daughters
-[X] Unity

Arthryn herself only has problem with the fact that Bronwyn misused her privilege, not that Hereditary Monarchy in itself is bad. And honestly, I got no problem with that either. What I do worry is that focusing on a sole Goddess when this is meant to be the first Holy Site for the Religion as a whole would have all the same sort of unintended slippery slope as the, oh say, the entire line of choices we made that led to Hereditary Monarchy being instituted.

I'll have none of that, thank you very much.
 
[X] Arthryn and her Daughters
-[X] Unity

Arthryn herself only has problem with the fact that Bronwyn misused her privilege, not that Hereditary Monarchy in itself is bad. And honestly, I got no problem with that either. What I do worry is that focusing on a sole Goddess when this is meant to be the first Holy Site for the Religion as a whole would have all the same sort of unintended slippery slope as the, oh say, the entire line of choices we made that led to Hereditary Monarchy being instituted.

I'll have none of that, thank you very much.


By choosing unity you are explicitly ignoring that two goddess decided to work behind other goddesses back and that goddesses themselves are divided on the matter and are pretending everything is okay.

You are leaving future generations to interpretat the situation as they see fit, basically we build a temple to appease the goddess, but what is the message?

This is basically continuation of slippery line of choices as we are just keeping status quo and are leaving things for future generations to interpret, status quo that brought the monarchy and earned us the warning of the goddess.

By doing teacher we are having none of it, we are sending them a clear message, reminding them of Arthryn teachings for ages to come.

This is not about the goddess as it is about us and what message we want to send to future generations. We can build more temples down the line with other goddesses in them but this one is to serve as our remainder that we are never to forget our ideals and values, that everyone gets the same chance and are equal.
 
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You are leaving future generations to interpretat the situation as they see fit, basically we build a temple to appease the goddess, but what is the message?
The message?
What do the People devote the first temple to?
[] Arthryn and her Daughters
-[] Unity
The vote is the message I intend to pick. I don't think this needs explanation.
By choosing unity you are explicitly ignoring that two goddess decided to work behind other goddesses back and that goddesses themselves are divided on the matter and are pretending everything is okay.
Ah, there's the rub of it. I am not explicitly ignoring the fact. I am deliberately ignoring it, putting it utterly bluntly. Symbols are meant to not be nuanced, not at first glance. Ideals cannot be upheld entirely all the time. Let the matter of this division between monarchist sentiments be bygones. Instead, focus on the future. Of an undivided pantheon, working for the betterment of all of their adherents. Of the People standing together, Arthwydish with Merntirian with Maradyshian hand in hand.
This is not about the goddess as it is about us and what message we want to send to future generations.
This is as much about the Goddesses as it is about the people and the message sent. You say, "Yeah, we can build other temples venerating all the other Goddesses later."

The important keyword: 'later'

They will never be First True Temple. They will never be Temples hosting the petrified statue of a Hero past, who despite all her follies, still responsible for the unification of the Peoples. They will never be Temple that venerated Arthryn solely....nor will they match the significance of the Statue of Arthwyd up in Merntir lands.

There's that facet too, one that I just found out and something no one else seems to make a full line of thought process on. What happens when you doubly reinforce the standing of a singular Goddess with two Wonders?

Short answer: You at least heavily curtail the powers of the other Goddesses in times to come....perhaps even enough to shift their standing to Angels instead of Goddesses.
 
perhaps even enough to shift their standing to Angels instead of Goddesses.

It wouldn't get that far. Due to Arthryn and her immunity to memes, you are basically stuck with the pantheon as Arthryn will act to protect her daughters and she would include them losing their divinity as them getting harm.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Random Member on Mar 1, 2019 at 3:55 AM, finished with 95 posts and 47 votes.
 
It wouldn't get that far. Due to Arthryn and her immunity to memes, you are basically stuck with the pantheon as Arthryn will act to protect her daughters and she would include them losing their divinity as them getting harm.
Okay, I know where she is coming from and her line of thought makes sense, but I still find it hilarious that Arthryn currently considers "not being viewed as a literal Goddess" as being more inherently harmful than "being trapped in a stone statue for ten years while being perfectly aware of your surroundings all the time".

Again, it makes sense since we're talking deities here, but I still find it rather funny in a vacuum.
 
Okay, I know where she is coming from and her line of thought makes sense, but I still find it hilarious that Arthryn currently considers "not being viewed as a literal Goddess" as being more inherently harmful than "being trapped in a stone statue for ten years while being perfectly aware of your surroundings all the time".

Again, it makes sense since we're talking deities here, but I still find it rather funny in a vacuum.

It isn't so much as not being viewed as a Goddess, but losing their divinity so they are no longer a goddess, which is a lot more than just not being worshipped as a goddess. If People stopped worshipping her Daughters, Arthryn wouldn't consider that harmful, but if her Daughters became to lose their divinity and stop being goddesses? Well, that is a whole different matter.

Meanwhile, being imprisoned in a stone statue for a decade is basically the equivalent of being grounded for a week for a deities like Wyrn and Evalyn. Frankly speaking, it was Bronwyn who got the short end of that stick due to being a mortal so getting that punishment was a lot more impactful on her.
 
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I'm perfectly happy to take angels over divine schism with goddesses perusing different goals.
Of course, if that is what you're after, then who am I to judge :V.

But food for thought, consider this fact. The Goddess who grant us the most variety in magicks right now is All-Seerest.
All-Seerist Divine Magic
Future Seeing
Guided Attacks
Increased Accuracy
Scrying
Truth Detecting

Arthrynite Divine Magic
Limited Stone Manipulation
Basic Trait Self-Boosting
Stone-Skin
With no intent to disparage Arthryn's more consistent Blessing, the greatest asset in the Epic Age is the fact that we're able to utilize the sheer precision All-Seerest granted us against Vervov. And considering the fact that we haven't even so much as touch "Study Magic" (we really should do one, all these wonder building is really not great), who knows what sort of blessing the Goddesses would grant us.

And what sort of blessings could be lost, when the Daughters are demoted to Angels, instead?
Not that much. Thanks to Arthryn and her immunity to memes, you are basically stuck with the pantheon as Arthryn will act to protect her daughters.
Ah, but that doesn't deny the fact that doing this will curtail the power of the Pantheon as a whole and heavily strengthen Arthryn as a result, especially with how utterly terrified the People (all three) are.

Still, it makes me less against the veneration of Arthryn first and foremost....but the slippery slope remains. I'd rather not take chances with it.
 
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