The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
1. This is the only real project of interest for the Biologis to do right now. It's this or study some random fauna or flora.
2. This is only the preliminary investigation of what the costs will be. It's worthwhile to know exactly how much benefit we could get out of this.
3. We just got a massive boost to our industrial tech, which will enable us to pay for a lot more than we previously could.
4. Ironically enough, equipping them wouldn't actually be all that expensive for us. We're not likely to have more than a few thousand, at least until we figure out how to increase their lifespan. (Alkhestry is a promising way to do that) Just give them some Advanced Power Armor, Helguard standard weapons, and they're pretty much good to go. The Emperor only had twenty regiments with a few hundred each during the Conquest of Terra, and I expect we'll have less for a while.
5. Super-soldiers are extremely effective in this setting. More than they should be, due to the Rule of Cool. It's why Astartes are able to fight against forces with vast numerical superiority and still come out on top. Now, the Thunder Warriors? They're better than Astartes in many ways.

Case in point, during the early Great Crusade there was an instance of a rebellion that had some surviving Thunder Warriors supporting it. The Emperor send the War Hounds, who would later be the World Eaters, to put the rebellion down. Each of the Thunder Warriors managed to kill four or five Astartes before going down. There's a reason that Durin referred to them as "transhuman murderblenders".

Now, I want you to consider this - if Thunder Warriors born on Terra could take down four or five Astartes each before dying, how effective do you think Avernite Thunder Warriors would be?




Asking Arethea for something has Cost: Free. You can't Double Down on it.
The Great crusade ara Astartes were pretty poorly trained compared to modern astartes. We have, I believe, also been told by durin that the surviving Thunder warriors were the ones who were badass know to survive Emperor's purge, they were not what you can call average by any mean. In addition to that, Modern Space marine have the entire "Emperor's Angel of Death" narrative weight behind them these days.

I very much doubt a average thunder warrior can beat modern day Astartes that easily now.

Ofc, they might still be worth it, if we can increase their longevity.
 
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Eh...tis hard to judge. Imperial era Astartes were probably better equipped, but the first wave of Terran marines were extremely well trained typified by them forming a giant portion of most legions officer corps and flat out surviving even if you take out that many of the important marines are first hen Terran marines.Kharn, bile Ahriman, Gordon all are Terran. it was when the crusade started that standards nose dived.
 
I'll note that those were veterans compared to pretty new Astartes. Thunder Warriors are only a little bit more powerful than Space Marines.
That was dying veterans compared to world eaters in close combat. That is still a good ratio no matter what and let's be honest Avernite thunder warriors are going to dangerous. We already send the space marines some of thier best candidates.
 
Its Avernus assume its psycic until given reason to believe otherwise and when if it isn't then its even more suspicious.
Oh its very likely that Camo Crocks are psychic somehow, but not necessarily regarding their camouflage. Or more likely, they use psykery to enhance a very good mundane base.

Have you see videos of camouflaged squids? Earth animals can do some fascinating things. No need for psykery, and Avernus does pure biotech too.

I'd have assumed that was the major research since they're one of a few avernite beings that interact with souls so directly. Reducing casualties from a creature that isn't a major contribute to our losses compared to everything else is nice, but unless we can get something else out of it its not really a low hanging fruit.
OK, to explain it completely: Yes, the research would look into the soul eating mechanism, which would need a telepathica follow up, but thats not the low hanging fruit part. Its the habits, natural predators, if they find some smells repulsive, etc. They eat our peoples souls. Not that many of them as far as I know, but I would think that its worth a few years research to minimize that number.

You might disagree and that's fine. Mechanically, the benefits would not likely be huge.

Saves time and rids is faster.

Because all the current divinations we're going to do are things Rids is specialised for. Information gathering is his thing, not long term prediction.
I would be wholly unsurprised if the Eldar had a seer with a paragon trait that make them able to see target with the letter N in their name really well.

And other such weird conditions.

So better leave them to decide, they know what they can do (which we do not) and what Rids can.

Because they're made in their 20s when they've presumably already had training. Space Marines are recruited as preteens and young teenagers training is required, last hunters are recruited prebirth so training is required thunder warriors if we're recruiting them are not, which is likely how emps was able to conquorer terra at the "fast" pace he did. Just grab some techno barbarians off the street shove the augments in give em some time to adapt to the changes and boom, additional training skipped or minimised.

And your arguments for them not being low hanging fruit tend to be based on assumptions we can't make until we actually do the research. We won't know to say nothing of compounded issues of not knowing if something is good for potential improvements or lack there of if we don't look into them.
Thats like saying that a soldier can fight, so if you give him a PA he does not need any training to fight with it.

Also, with us providing juvenat to our good soldiers, 20y or less olds will be very much below average, skill wise.

Throwing them at the enemy right after conversion might result in enemies killed, but would a bloody stupid waste of a large amount of resources and potential.

Slot B
-Y1: counter intelligence
-Y2: Integrate Varangian Guard
-Y5:counter intelligence
Two times Counter Intel? With Rids divination too? Trust already has excellent security, and we have a large psyker problem currently, with many of our best anti-psykers slain.

SLOT C - Year 4 (Fabricator-General)
-Y4: Expand Military Forces: Mechanicus-
We have massive amounts of extremely valuable tech to implement. This can wait a turn that we could use to increase our production of AM/EM greatly first.

-Y2: Greater Divination (How Chaos Psykers are targeting our anti-psyker forces) Double Dwon Year 2
We also need to know why, and ideally who.

SLOT C - Year 4 (Tamia)
-Y4: Black Ship Protection: Telepathica
This one could really use a DD, considering how vital the project is to sane humanity entire.

SLOT A - Year 1
-Y1: Personal Attention: Technological Improvements: (other)
SLOT B - Year 3
-Y3: Personal Attention: Technological Improvements: (other)
The increase in morale is wasted, and the increase is 4% of our current pop growth. Compared to +10% Metal, Materiel, and Thrones that the General option provides.

We also have quite a few expensive projects coming up.

1. This is the only real project of interest for the Biologis to do right now. It's this or study some random fauna or flora.
Random?

Avalanche Shrub: Works by eroding and then holding the ground together, ceasing to upon death. Sounds fantastic for surface mining.
Camo Croc: Better or cheaper camouflage.
Razorgrass: Fields of two meter high razor blades. Hmm. I wonder, how difficult would it be for an invading army of, say, orcs, to have to keep burning a path through plains of these? While under the guns of our cities. Might make for a useful defense from non-necron infantry, especialy for our Elysium hives. Edit: Also, an excellent battleground for our power armored infantry.
Mirage Palm: Makes an illusory oasis so convincing that some animals die of trying to drink sand. Relatives of Illusory Pines probably. If we research them, we might get a project to "Program" them, which might let us, say, plant a bunch of trees that make people believe that they are fortified bunkers or something? Would be VERY useful.
Delta-Vee Bird: Manipulates... Delta V. Which is a term for change of velocity. They can also affect their prey. Yes, this is absurdly OP, maneuverability wise, and might result in psyker fighter squadrons. Also, if we manage to tame flocks of them to work alongside our fighters...
Paranoia Flowers: What it says on the tin. Releases pollen that causes paranoia. Hell yes. We want that bottled and with a range of delivery options. Can you imagine using this on Tzeetchians? Most any chaos? Much less on Avernus, where what most would call paranoia we call survival instinct. Give to our Last Hunters to apply to enemy leaders... Might be better than killing them. By a lot.
Draining Rabbit: Steals "energy" (stamina at least, perhaps more) from nearby creatures. Would postpone or eliminate our Psykers exhaustion maluses probably, even outside of combat, by draining volunteers or animals. VERY useful. I wonder how long it could keep a melee focused battlepsyker going...

Some examples of promising options. All of these are from Regional Information, none from canon Omakes.

Case in point, during the early Great Crusade there was an instance of a rebellion that had some surviving Thunder Warriors supporting it. The Emperor send the War Hounds, who would later be the World Eaters, to put the rebellion down. Each of the Thunder Warriors managed to kill four or five Astartes before going down. There's a reason that Durin referred to them as "transhuman murderblenders".

Now, I want you to consider this - if Thunder Warriors born on Terra could take down four or five Astartes each before dying, how effective do you think Avernite Thunder Warriors would be?
Those were veterans that started with better bodies then SMs versus newbies.

How good would Avernite SM be? Same thing pretty much.
 
That was dying veterans compared to world eaters in close combat. That is still a good ratio no matter what and let's be honest Avernite thunder warriors are going to dangerous. We already send the space marines some of thier best candidates.
I am not saying they won't be powerful, I just say that you shouldn't expect them to be four, five or even two times as powerful as Space Marines.

Edit: Durin's quote from Discord:
they are above Astartes but not much. the canon appearances by Thunder Warriors in the Herasy Era are in no way indicative of a normal Thunder Warrior, they are those skilled enought o have suvived
 
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Now, I want you to consider this - if Thunder Warriors born on Terra could take down four or five Astartes each before dying, how effective do you think Avernite Thunder Warriors would be?
Okay, you make decent points. But I'd like to address this point.
some random fauna or flora.
Not some random stuff. Specifically the fauna and flora that potentially could have the same sort of impact as nogs and beergrass.
Quickbloom could fit the bill. Pure Alum has great industry and logistical potential, if we can find more of it, ditto Fountainclod, especially in combination. Samsonite Algae could be good for farming, Amrita Amanitas has possible battlefield applications and tastes good, Alchemical Slug might be useful in chemistry, Xifrum is a particularly stubborn weed as far as I can tell.
Otherwise, we could spend a bit of time examining a region, get a list of flora and fauna we haven't even known exists. And maybe we'll finally discover Warproot. That thing might help with our psyker-problem.
Avernus has created many other such unique resources that we have overlooked for decades, who knows what Durin has been waiting with in his notes to spring on us once we've surveyed a particular region.
Now, given that we're already in the race to implement as many industrial buffs as quickly as possible, maybe some of these minerals and floras would be just another thing to spend action points on, or maybe not, we won't know until we find out.
I honestly can't figure if it's better to go for thunder-warriors option or researching potential exotic treasures, but I'd like to hear other's thoughts.
[EDIT]
okay, after reading what others wrote while I was typing, I'm suggesting we go for Fountainclod next. Might be good to have constant source of water on our space-ships.
 
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I'll note that those were veterans compared to pretty new Astartes. Thunder Warriors are only a little bit more powerful than Space Marines.
They're meant to be as strong as true born who are 1.75 vs Astartes 1 (officials wog). The lack of mental enhancement isn' Great, but it's fine.

@Enereal because conventional camouflage no matter how good is fucking useless against empathy osycic sensors etc.

Indeed I do disagree.

Of course not, but they don't need as much. It severely truncates the need for training and and if we're training Helguard then they already know how to use pa for example. And no they won't be the absolute best, but if we could recruit them then we would.

Have I posted that thing on the warriors vs Astartes example.

What ever apologies for short responses on phone.
 
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Scot wont' accept that. We asked.
We have a decade to start, which means that we can wait 5 years.

We asked if it would be OK to wait more then one turn to implement some more of that sweet tech first.

I might agree with this one, the rest seem like they'd need psykana actions to implement, and we already have epic backlog there.
Some are, but about half are not. Also, this is merely an example, with no Omake species, and nothing from the new dragon region.
 
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We haven't got the option in the update at least, but considering that the tech boosts will give larger boosts anyways there's no way we would take the education boosts first anyways.
The plus 5 to combat was nice and it would have been nice to see what else we can implement. Like more focus on team work would benefit from the best adventure group ever helping out.
 
[X] Plan Nurgle T123

Munitorum
SLOT A - Year 4
-Y4: Implement (Volkite): Planning

Void Command
SLOT A - Year 5
-Y5: Implement (Repair Nanites): Naval

Administratum
SLOT A - Year 2
-Y1: Technological Improvements: (General)
SLOT B - Year 2
-Y2: Technological Improvements: (General)

Diplomacy
SLOT A - Year 1
-Y1: Nynye Trade (Trade Tau Tech)
-Y2: Make a Request (Ask about what we need to do in order to engage in diplomacy with the penguins to trade for the Navigator fish or anythign else of value they may have, if she has any idea what they might want in exchange, and if she's willing to help)
-Y3: Request Information: Curses of the Line of Sanguinius

Arbites
Slot A
-Y3: Greater Psyker Hunting
-Y4: Greater Psyker Hunting
-Y5: Greater Psyker Hunting

Slot B
-Y1: counter intelligence
-Y2: Integrate Varangian Guard
-Y5:counter intelligence


AdMech
SLOT A - Year 4 (Explorator)
-Y4: Black Ship Protection: Mechanicus
SLOT B - Year 5 (Biologis)
-Y5: Ponder the Annals of Thunder
SLOT C - Year 4 (Fabricator-General)
-Y4: Expand Military Forces: Mechanicus-
SLOT D - Year 1 (Free)
-Y1: Technological Improvements: (Advanced Material)
-Y5: Disseminate Callamus Augmetics

Ministorum
SLOT A - Year 3
-Y3: Belief and Faith: Adeptus Astra Ministorum
SLOT B - Year 3
-Y3: Belief and Faith: Adeptus Astra Ministorum

Astra Telepathica
SLOT A - Year 1 (Ridcully)
-Y1: Greater Divination (Infiltrators in the Trust, and security holes they exploit. Give results to the Inquisition.)
-- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 1
-Y2: Greater Divination (How Chaos Psykers are targeting our anti-psyker forces) Double Dwon Year 2
-Y3: Belief and Faith: Adeptus Astra Telepathica
-- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 3
SLOT B - Year 1 (Xavier)
-Y1: Mentoring (Alpha)
-Y2: Journeyman Alkahestry
SLOT C - Year 4 (Tamia)
-Y4: Black Ship Protection: Telepathica
-- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 4
SLOT D - Year 5 (Aria)
-Y5: Technomancy Double Down Year 5
SLOT E - Free Divination
-Y?: Greater Divination (Arhra - nature of ritual with shards of Khaine)

Personal
SLOT A - Year 1
-Y1: Personal Attention: Technological Improvements: (other)
SLOT B - Year 3
-Y3: Personal Attention: Technological Improvements: (other)
SLOT C - Year 1
-Y1: Getting to know you
-Y2: Construction Expertise (Build Hive (Tarascon, Center Area))
SLOT D - Year 1
-Y1: Spend Time With (Vlad Tepes)
-Y2: Spend Time With (Syr)
-Y3: Write In: Syr Marriage Candidates - Discuss with Syr regarding her marriage options and potentially also arrange for it.
-Y4: Spend Time With (Rosalinda Orlov)
-Y5: Spend Time With (Rosalinda Orlov)

Ok Here is my plan I am doing some population growth instead of 2 general technology implement. More people would help with our throne deficit by giving us a bigger tax base. Some people wanted to start the expansion of the Admech forces and I do that. I also changed the Arbiter actions around so we get the space marines these turn.
Alright, time to give Nurgle a bollocking, because I'm in the mood to give some random schmuck a piece of my mind.
Firstly, I for one appreciate your double anti-infiltration action. We sure don't want our regional neighbors to find out we're teching up rapidly again, not if we can at all avoid them finding out.
-Y1: Nynye Trade (Trade Tau Tech)
In return for what?'
-Y4: Black Ship Protection: Mechanicus
Is this actually possible? Is "Chance of Success: -80%" before Tranth's bonuses? Because I'm not sure it is, and I sure hope that you know that it is.
-Y5: Ponder the Annals of Thunder
Already been through this.Just disregard everything else I write here. Survey some regions or research some decent flora or mineral and you've got my vote.
-Y3: Belief and Faith: Adeptus Astra Ministorum
-Y3: Belief and Faith: Adeptus Astra Telepathica
Is this absolutely necessary to do right now? When Toguzak's domain is apparently aiming at us?
If there's the slightest chance Ridcully can delay or turn them at Amir-Ka, that really seems like the thing to do instead of long-term research at the moment.
I might be talking out of ignorance here, but I've been away for a while, I've tried asking and no one wants to tell me what the plan is for dealing with Tugozak's.
SLOT E - Free Divination
-Y?: Greater Divination (Arhra - nature of ritual with shards of Khaine)
Is this it for earning back minor favors with the Eldar?
-Y2: Construction Expertise (Build Hive (Tarascon, Center Area))
We don't have enough expences already? Do we really have enough money for this, right now? Is it a good idea to expose our defences right when the orks could be preparing a Waagh?
 
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Is this actually possible? Is "Chance of Success: -80%" before Tranth's bonuses? Because I'm not sure it is, and I sure hope that you know that it is.
We also get a big bonus from all the different buildings.
Is this absolutely necessary to do right now? What Toguzak's domain is apparently aiming at us?
We can't do more than 3 Greater Divinations per turn. The plan for Waagh is to wait until next turn, then get Eldar favors and just use them to redirect/divine the Waagh so we can say whether to use them.
 
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The plan for Waagh is to wait until next turn, then get Eldar favors and just use them to redirect/divine the Waagh so we can say whether to use them.
So, get Eldar Favors next turn, then use then that turn or the next turn?
And hope that the Waaagh doesn't kick off before we can do all that?
We're going to get Royal Alkhestry for sure, but since we're trading a few levels of tech better than level 10 that is required for that we're going to see what else might be on offer, like them supplying us with more on a regular basis. (even if we can do it ourselves once we learn, them doing it as well means we get more)
Maybe specify that in the plan? Eh, you're the expert.
 
Yeah I am worried too about the lack of a minor (and therefore Orc redirect), but we do need those two divinations I think. One due to the tech, other because it looks like Chaos is setting something up.

Its 3-4 GDs per minor I believe, so even concentrating fully on it might not be enough. I think that waiting until next turn is safe enough.


Could we ask if SMs are harder or easier to enhance with Alkahestry I wonder. They might not know enough about them to tell.
 
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