You want to do research heretic! Joking aside a lot of thing we can do or research we can't because of the conservatives. But to be honest they really stop the player base from going overboard.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
If by that you mean they stop us doing basic upgrades...then certainly they stop us from going over board.
- Location
- United states
@Durin
1) Are we close to getting someone that we can send to start a Vanaheim Telephatica branch?
-1a) Instead of them coming from Avernus can they come from the other branches on other worlds like Midgard?
I will submit using AI 's without the proper knowledge and warding in place. Or since it's not part of the admech but relevant when people started saying sacrificing people to keep Saint Lin alive.
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- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Midgard (which currently the only other branch in Trust) has way less major psykers than Avernus, and those that have are significantly less skilled and experienced since Midgard isn't, you know, a warp-touched deathworld. So yes, it is possible that Midgard will produce spare Master/Heroic Primaris before us but it's quite unlikely.
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- Location
- United states
That may be true but since they don't live on a death world their psykers aren't constantly dying in large numbers all the time. So seems like they would have a larger number of psykers, by that I mean psykers that actually reach centuries of age instead of dying way before than, that have been around for centuries than Avernus in that case.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
More Ideas for fighting Turoq:
We could feign a diplomatic breakdown with the Blood Dragons leading to a war(only works because the Blood Dragons leadership and the high council are small enough for it to be concievable that they are not infiltrated).
Then we could wait for Turoq to be baited in and both turn our armies against their invasion.
To do this correctly we would need some way of feigning ship deaths, would probably have to agree to a setup accepting a predetermined level of casualties on both sides on the ground, and would need to spend a bunch of Ridcully divinations on making sure noone on either side who is in a position to know enough to realize the war is a fake is an infiltrator.
@Durin
1. Would the High Council and the Blood Dragons be open to this kind of scheme?
2. Would we be able to use Ridcully actions to ferret out any infiltrators that could give away the deception?
3. How many divination actions, and what type, would it take? (I was thinking a decade or two worth of effort?)
4. Would this be enough to get Turoq to overcommit to an attack?
5. Would relying on the time it would take them to evacuate their forces and get out of the system allow us to in any way mousetrap their forces? Or is our FTL too slow and their info too good?
I was sort of thinking that we could precog which world they would strike at under these circumstances, then hide forces to delay their evacuation from their target to buy more time.
6. Could precog determine what system they would strike if given a fleet plan we are adhering too?
7. Is there any way to slow down warp travel entering or exiting a system? Just make them lose a day or two entering the system.
8. Maybe as an action from a daemonologist choir at the start of a naval battle?
My other idea for what to do about them seeing our responding fleet coming is to once again play off of the Eldar trade. We could either be faster to cut down on time taken to get there, or we could ask for an easy slower FTL that lets us avoid Daemons seeing us coming.
9. Is my idea of trading for an alternate form of FTL that the daemons won't detect, prioritising untrackability over speed, viable?
I also have some general questions that I would like to know the answers to, as I am running out of idea fodder for fighting Turoq.
10. What polities do they neighbor?
Obviously us, but who else would be on their neighboring regions list?
11. What does to Inquisition know about their internal politics beyond, Tzeentchian, Neo-fuedal, ruled by the daemon prince Turoq?
12. They're Neo Fuedal, and somewhere in the chain of vassalge they owe fealty to the Black Imperium, but who is Turoq's immediate fuedal superior? And does Turoq have any geographically separated inferiors who owe fealty to them? (Chaos minors?)
We could feign a diplomatic breakdown with the Blood Dragons leading to a war(only works because the Blood Dragons leadership and the high council are small enough for it to be concievable that they are not infiltrated).
Then we could wait for Turoq to be baited in and both turn our armies against their invasion.
To do this correctly we would need some way of feigning ship deaths, would probably have to agree to a setup accepting a predetermined level of casualties on both sides on the ground, and would need to spend a bunch of Ridcully divinations on making sure noone on either side who is in a position to know enough to realize the war is a fake is an infiltrator.
@Durin
1. Would the High Council and the Blood Dragons be open to this kind of scheme?
2. Would we be able to use Ridcully actions to ferret out any infiltrators that could give away the deception?
3. How many divination actions, and what type, would it take? (I was thinking a decade or two worth of effort?)
4. Would this be enough to get Turoq to overcommit to an attack?
5. Would relying on the time it would take them to evacuate their forces and get out of the system allow us to in any way mousetrap their forces? Or is our FTL too slow and their info too good?
I was sort of thinking that we could precog which world they would strike at under these circumstances, then hide forces to delay their evacuation from their target to buy more time.
6. Could precog determine what system they would strike if given a fleet plan we are adhering too?
7. Is there any way to slow down warp travel entering or exiting a system? Just make them lose a day or two entering the system.
8. Maybe as an action from a daemonologist choir at the start of a naval battle?
My other idea for what to do about them seeing our responding fleet coming is to once again play off of the Eldar trade. We could either be faster to cut down on time taken to get there, or we could ask for an easy slower FTL that lets us avoid Daemons seeing us coming.
9. Is my idea of trading for an alternate form of FTL that the daemons won't detect, prioritising untrackability over speed, viable?
I also have some general questions that I would like to know the answers to, as I am running out of idea fodder for fighting Turoq.
10. What polities do they neighbor?
Obviously us, but who else would be on their neighboring regions list?
11. What does to Inquisition know about their internal politics beyond, Tzeentchian, Neo-fuedal, ruled by the daemon prince Turoq?
12. They're Neo Fuedal, and somewhere in the chain of vassalge they owe fealty to the Black Imperium, but who is Turoq's immediate fuedal superior? And does Turoq have any geographically separated inferiors who owe fealty to them? (Chaos minors?)
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- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
No, even with high death rate Avernus has more major psykers (though I think Midgard has slightly more minor ones), and any psyker who can be easily killed won't be nowhere near good enough to lead a Telepathica branch anyways, but those who survive Avernus are much more likely to grow much faster there. There's a reason why one of nicknames of Avernus is Forge of Heroes.
Marine Librarians are just, if not more valuable as elite Avernite psykers.
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- Location
- United states
There is that Avernus arrogance again. Just because Avernus psykers are better fighters doesn't mean they would be better teachers or as good at running things. Note that I pointed out that pretty much around most of our psykers die before reaching 100 while a non death world would have psykers like Midgard would have psykers thousands of psykers who have been teaching for hundreds of years.
It also doesn't really make sense for it to only be possible to found a new branch on a planet requiring such absurdly high standards considering that it's been over a hundred years and we still haven't gotten another one. It would be like we would be completely screwed if all our hero psyker died because for some reason the new psykers couldn't be taught by the psykers that aren't heroes. If it really takes a planet like Avernus to spend hundreds of years until a psyker meets the ridiculously high standards than it might be time to work on something more realistic because at the rate we are founding planets it's just not feasible considering that just thinking about founding a branch on one world out of 9 in the Core world has not been possible for literally over 100 years it's not going to work when we have hundredrs.
- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
But better fighters are exactly what are we looking for. The high standard for a branch head are not for personally teaching or administrating things (Ridcully by himself could't run a hotdog stand, nevermind the entire branch of Astra Telepathica), they are there so that they're strong enough to put any rogue trainee down, because bunch of untrained or partially trained psykers in one place is one hell of a security risk. Actual teachers and administrators are thing that wil be mostly delegated anyways.
Again, the ones who die before reaching 100 were extremely unlikely to have made Master Primaris anyways, it's the rare ones who survive for centuries while honing their skills and control that are what are we looking for.
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- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
The lack of being put in charge of anything after being sounded out by Lord Inquisitor Varquez makes me think that he was probably sounding us out as to whether we should be allowed to keep our current authority, essentially he was figuring out whether to assasinate us.
- Location
- United states
Those are not the only things we are looking for in psykers because they are able to do other things beside combat. Example includes wards, healing, communication and divination. In fact a lot of psykers actually suck at combat because their skills are more geared towards utility than combat.
That makes no freaking sense. Normal people that are non psykers could kill non psykers easily if they are prepared. Made a lot easier with wards to weaken them. And you are pretty much saying that security is dependent on one single person being responsible for killing rogue psykers when there are tons of people able to do the same and heavily outnumbering the psykers. It's even less of an issue for everyone else due to the fact that no one else produces high grade psykers in the same high numbers as us.
Again, that makes no sense because the reality is that not every single psyker comes from a death world and being from a death world doesn't automatically better at everything. Only killing things AKA combat. And nothing is stopping people from honing their skills outside a deathworld.
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- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Yes, and those psykers should be making wards, healing, divining, etc., not leading Telepathica branches.
Not easily in any way shape or form, the fact Avernus anti-psyker forces composed mostly of non-psykers can deal with low-to-mid major psykers without much issue is ludicrous and it took centuries of constant improvements and Avernite bulshit to get there. If powerful major psyker goes rogue in psyker city and you are relying on regular forces to stop him you almost certainly have no city left even if you "win". There's a reason why response to rogue Beta is generally "level the city they're in from orbit". And since the rogue would be surrounded by vulnerable, untrained and easily corruptable psykers the situation could rapidly spiral out of control. Yes, this is one of the worst case scenarios but it's these kind of situations that headmaster of the branch is supposed to be final defence against.
Not just deathworld, Avernus. It's warp-touched nature and plethora of telepathic wildfire of varying strength and subtlety means that any old Avernite psyker have willpower and control outstripping nearly every other psyker out there. And they almost universally better at their psychic discipline as this quest (and universe) works on Rule of Cool - some who has to use Biomancy every day to survive on warp-touched planet will always be a better Biomancer than some dude studying and practicing it in some warded facility on a safe and peaceful world.
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. No
2, with some good rolls maybe
3. A lot over an e tended period
4. Maybe
5. If they commit enough
6. Probebly
7. Not that you can use
9 It may may be possible
10. Already provided
11. To complex to describe
12. No to both
Or, you know, he just didn't have the time yet. It's not like we have more authority than usual anyway, and our Inquisitors don't have the right to assassinate Governors willy-nilly. I won't even speak about idiocy of killing your best general for anything less than Chaos Corruption/giant conspiracy to overthrow the Trust.
- Location
- United states
...You seriously missed the point where I pointed out that the people running the branches should not need to be the absolute best in combat and just need to be able to be good enough to run a branch which should include administration and actually being good at psyker disciplines.
First rogue psykers are literally killed all the time when they are found which happens to every single psyker that is on a world that doesn't have a branch so that's bullshit. Second when we got Ridcully to found the branch on Avernus he was actually low level at the beginning and was no where near as ridiculous as he was not even halfway through the quest. Third most worlds have no where near the amount of high level psykers popping up on Avernus all the time.
That is just total bullshit there. It's been repeatedly noted that our psykers aren't actually naturally better than other psykers. Avernus just produces a lot more high level ones compared to normal worlds. People really need to acknowledge that we are not the best at absolutely everything just because we are the protaganists.
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- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Why don't we just have one of our highest-level Psykers establish the branch? We have at least 3 Grandmasters last I checked, so we should have a high Admin one in there. They'd be better than Ridcully started out, and a Grandmaster Psyker is basically a Hero Unit so power shouldn't be an issue.
So which grandmaster do you want to permanently loose? That is the problem we won't have that character anymore or thier skill set on Avernus.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
That's not quite accurate...well sorta. I'll respond to him and you further down.
They don't need to be the absolute best, they just need to be good enough to restrain and assist the planetary government in taking down rogues.
This is a profession where the students until they are sanctioned are best compared to active land mines, you need someone who can disarm them teaching.
Well not all the time, and likely with heavy casualties. Remember one of the reasons the Midgard branch got such a boost in popularity was because the first thing the Grandmaster did was kill a rogue beta level.
Being able to stop a rampaging beta/gamma doesn't seem unreasonable.
Also you are also forgetting that
A. The branch wasn't set up by Ridcully that was done by adeptus astra telepathica, he was just sent to be the headmaster
B. He also wasn't as shit at administration back then.
C. No, they don't, but they do get them and in a place like Midgard or Vanaheim they likely manage casualty numbers that would make our heads spin, they have neither the institutions to counter them or psykers (well Midgard does now).
Actually we don't make inherently better psykers, but our pskyers are better for three reasons, which he kinda said.
1. Strong will trait combined with all the other crap on Avernus. This makes for strong wills, very important for psykers.
2. This combines with the above: Natural selection. The stress of living on Avernus, combined with near constant life or death situations (as well as power use) means that any psyker that survives on Avernus is more skilled and stable (by a given definition of the word) than a Midgardian psyker.
3. Constant use: Effectively practise makes perfect and Avernites are constantly practising their skills in life or death situations pretty much every day, where by comparison a Midgard psyker likely wouldn't...unless something's gone horribly wrong.
We're not better because we're the protagonists, we're better because the planet likes kicking people in the nuts, which (I think) was his point, not protagonist power.
Because all of them are occupied.
Xavier runs the Battle Psykers, Tamia runs research and development while Aria is a critical part of our anti psyker infrastructure.
We can't afford to permanently loose any of them, its the same reason why we didn't send Aria before she became a Heroic.
sabreFather
Dr Pepper is the flavour that I savour
- Location
- Land of Bears and Loggers AKA Oregon
As there is no easy way to actually search for the qualifiers for leading a Branch of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, I can not be certain of the veracity of that aspect of this post.
If I recall correctly, we get an extra action from Aria because of her status as a Hero and as the head of our Anti-Psyker Psykers, and that she technically does not qualify to head a branch of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. At least, that was the case when she first started giving us an extra action. As is, the nature of her powers makes her FAR too important to Avernus in countering the clusterfuck of Rogue Psykers. As is, I am a bit surprised that no qualifying Psykers have come up since Constanzo. Aria only achieved her greater importance from killing Chief Librarian Aradiel, and otherwise would have remained a background Hero.
If I recall correctly, we get an extra action from Aria because of her status as a Hero and as the head of our Anti-Psyker Psykers, and that she technically does not qualify to head a branch of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. At least, that was the case when she first started giving us an extra action. As is, the nature of her powers makes her FAR too important to Avernus in countering the clusterfuck of Rogue Psykers. As is, I am a bit surprised that no qualifying Psykers have come up since Constanzo. Aria only achieved her greater importance from killing Chief Librarian Aradiel, and otherwise would have remained a background Hero.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I find the idea of a LIbrarian-run Telepathica pretty funny, actually.
In either event I'm not trading any of our grandmaster psykers (with their EXTRA ACTION) for Vanaheim's rather low amount of psykers. Particularly since we can trade Master Psykers instead, which is much less painful.
In either event I'm not trading any of our grandmaster psykers (with their EXTRA ACTION) for Vanaheim's rather low amount of psykers. Particularly since we can trade Master Psykers instead, which is much less painful.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Wait are you quoting someone?
But, yes heroic primaris give us extra actions and lead things, masters and other such important people lead branches, but don't give actions.
Regardless there's about a dozen back ground elite primaris who are almost at the level of master and when one of the levels up we're going to end one of them.
Ok so I was thinking of ways to fight Turoq and the best way I can think of would be expensive. Warp routes exist in the warp. There are areas where the warp is safe enough to travel through and not get off course or be violently murdered by demons causing current shifts. These areas are used by everyone who travel the warp because they are safe. Now you can go off the path but you need a lot of demons and sacrafices. Turoq must be literally killings millions of humans each year to get demons to spy and guide his ships.
What I am getting at is if we find the warp routes we can mine them or set up screening forces to take them out. Forcing Turoq to fight the Trust. Now there is some problems . One is that any mines would quickly start to wander off from where they were set. Two any warp battles would be far closer negating the range advantages the Trust has. Three warp battles suck and the enemy has demons helping them. 4 they can not use the warp routes but would loose ships. You need either a master navigator with a warded ships and a abacus to navigate the warp without routes. A greater demon helping you ( but since demons are assholes expect to be screwed over as soon as possible) with sorcery or a skilled navigator.
While Turoq is a demon prince I want to know how he can get a bunch of demons to work for him. Tzeentch demons cannot help but plot against each other and try to one up each other. It's there nature to plot and betray each other. While they hold agreements they will try to find some way to reign on them.
What I am getting at is if we find the warp routes we can mine them or set up screening forces to take them out. Forcing Turoq to fight the Trust. Now there is some problems . One is that any mines would quickly start to wander off from where they were set. Two any warp battles would be far closer negating the range advantages the Trust has. Three warp battles suck and the enemy has demons helping them. 4 they can not use the warp routes but would loose ships. You need either a master navigator with a warded ships and a abacus to navigate the warp without routes. A greater demon helping you ( but since demons are assholes expect to be screwed over as soon as possible) with sorcery or a skilled navigator.
While Turoq is a demon prince I want to know how he can get a bunch of demons to work for him. Tzeentch demons cannot help but plot against each other and try to one up each other. It's there nature to plot and betray each other. While they hold agreements they will try to find some way to reign on them.