Burden of the Emerald Empire (A Legend of the Five Rings Tale)

If the castle in the Lion territory gets built, what are some things we could do to reassure the Crane? Maybe shift things to favor them more at court? The Crane are pretty good at snowballing a lead in court to swing things massively in their favor. If we stop freezing them out so much they should calm down some.
 
If the castle in the Lion territory gets built, what are some things we could do to reassure the Crane? Maybe shift things to favor them more at court? The Crane are pretty good at snowballing a lead in court to swing things massively in their favor. If we stop freezing them out so much they should calm down some.
Well, we have tossed them the *occasional* bone. In particular, letting the Daidoji Trading Council have a significant in with our treasurer that was rooted in the Mantis trying to screw her over counts as "not nothing". They've had some years to regrow as well, given that they won't have lost all that many samurai in the various wars we've been carrying on. Mostly the problem is that our long-term policy objectives clash *badly* with theirs... and the Clan Rating of 35 reflects that. It's kind of the opposite of the Unicorn in a way - they've been seeing all of their fondest dreams come true as far as long-term policy, while the process of getting there nearly hollowed them out as a clan.

So then the question arises... where *are* we willing to hand them a policy victory? Where are we willing to give them significant additional influence, given that we know that such influence is highly likely to be used against us?

I would be willing to switch however right now I want to block no from winning so I'll hold off reconsidering until either vote can force a draw.

By my own eyeball tally, current votes are as follows:
- No: 4 votes (The King Chad, whydoyoubother, Kolekzionera, wingstrike96)
- Its certainly a possibility: 4 votes (Kingofbooks, Dark as Silver, No7sHere, cokerpilot)
- Shotgun Wedding: 5 votes (Sirrocco, keenscythe, Deadly Snark, Lupercal, Bastur2)
 
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So then the question arises... where *are* we willing to hand them a policy victory? Where are we willing to give them significant additional influence, given that we know that such influence is highly likely to be used against us?
IDK maybe have it so that a Crane courtier must be present for a winter court to be valid? They usually send at least one to each court anyway and it would give them the soft power to put the screws to the other clans by not bothering to attend making the court null and void for diplomacy and interclan agreements.

It is just the subtle strategy of heads I win tails, you lose while you can't call them out for it they favor.

Another thing we could do next turn is try and pull a cultural Renaissance by holding a year long challenge for each clan to show off their individual culture with some sort of prestigious award for the winning clan. If the Crane can't win that we can't really help them at that point.

Not sure what element it would be though.
 
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By my own eyeball tally, current votes are as follows:
- No: 4 votes (The King Chad, whydoyoubother, Kolekzionera, wingstrike96)
- Its certainly a possibility: 4 votes (Kingofbooks, Dark as Silver, No7sHere, cokerpilot)
- Shotgun Wedding: 5 votes (Sirrocco, keenscythe, Deadly Snark, Lupercal, Bastur2)
Votes have indeed been placed since I posted that.
 
Votes have indeed been placed since I posted that.

Yes...? I had meant that to say "Hey, just as a heads-up we've now hit and passed the point that you said you were waiting for." It was trying to be helpful, not judgemental.

IDK maybe have it so that a Crane courtier must be present for a winter court to be valid? They usually send at least one to each court anyway and it would give them the soft power to put the screws to the other clans by not bothering to attend making the court null and void for diplomacy and interclan agreements.

It is just the subtle strategy of heads I win tails, you lose while you can't call them out for it they favor.

Another thing we could do next turn is try and pull a cultural Renaissance by holding a year long challenge for each clan to show off their individual culture with some sort of prestigious award for the winning clan. If the Crane can't win that we can't really help them at that point.

Not sure what element it would be though.
Okay... that first would burn an *enormous* amount of political capital, and would let them cripple any trade-based clan they happen to be on the outs with... like the Mantis and the Unicorn.

Heck, if we want to toss them a bone, the easy way to do it would be in adjudication after the upcoming Lion+Crane vs Unicorn war. Of course, that would also be kind of violently out of character for Hisao by now.
 
[x] (eyes narrow) "I had been trying to get away from work today, but if I must.... So be it. I will not send her with you as Empress Dowager, but there are other ways."
-[x] Inform the Crab that Hida Benjiro is to officially propose to your mom, and make it look good. When the proposal arrives, inform your mom that she is to accept, as Kaiu Ryoko. Hint strongly to Hida Kuon that he'd be well-served to have one Kaiu Ryoko deployed in some fashion as a representative to the Lion court.
-[x] Let your brother know the rough general plan on the matter, one-on-one. Suggest that for his own sake, he shouldn't let her have *too* much influence at court, as she will be there as a Crab, and that could undercut him with his own people (she's almost guaranteed to push for more influence than she really ought to have). Still, she is your mother, and he is your brother, and you want to help make their lives better.
 
Yes...? I had meant that to say "Hey, just as a heads-up we've now hit and passed the point that you said you were waiting for." It was trying to be helpful, not judgemental.
Oh well in that case the votes tipped far enough that I think its safe to sit on my preferred option rather than voting tactically.
We're usually sitting below ten in this quest so I really don't expect a swing back in this vote.
 
Long day driving, update tomorrow
Adhoc vote count started by gman391 on Jul 5, 2018 at 4:53 PM, finished with 43 posts and 15 votes.

  • [x] (eyes narrow) "I had been trying to get away from work today, but if I must.... So be it. I will not send her with you as Empress Dowager, but there are other ways."
    -[x] Inform the Crab that Hida Benjiro is to officially propose to your mom, and make it look good. When the proposal arrives, inform your mom that she is to accept, as Kaiu Ryoko. Hint strongly to Hida Kuon that he'd be well-served to have one Kaiu Ryoko deployed in some fashion as a representative to the Lion court.
    -[x] Let your brother know the rough general plan on the matter, one-on-one. Suggest that for his own sake, he shouldn't let her have *too* much influence at court, as she will be there as a Crab, and that could undercut him with his own people (she's almost guaranteed to push for more influence than she really ought to have). Still, she is your mother, and he is your brother, and you want to help make their lives better.
    [X] No
    [X] Its certainly a possibility. I hadn't considered it. Would you explain you're thoughts.
    [X] Sirroco
 
Year 9: A Marriage and Winter Court with the Phoenix
"No." You say simply.

Takeshi is working himself up to yell at you when you hold up a hand.

"Today was supposed to be about family as my dear wife wished" You glance to Kaname who shrugs.

"But if I must work I shall. I will not send mother to you as the Dowager Empress. I have other plans in mind for her" You say.

You see them both stiffen, Takeshi in steely anger, and your mother in not fear, but worry, not for herself but for you.

Mother bows low.
"If I may be permitted to speak. Takeshi-kun speaks for himself and his wish, not my own"

"Just because--" Takeshi begins

"Takeshi" You say looking at him.

"Fine." he folds his arms across his chest.

"I had intended to retire soon, and was preparing to do so after Takeshi-kun's marriage, it would be far enough away from the rumours of Kyuden Hida, and reasonable enough that no one would look to see if there was anything deeper. When I informed my son about this...he got his father's iron in him, just as you did Hisao." she says.

You give a wry smile at that.

"Just because you and him are fighting doesn't mean you should retire, you have...a decade at least" Takeshi insists.

"As it happens I am in agreement with my brother...." you say.

The pair look at you in surprise as Kaname decides to go check on her other daughter. You give silent thanks to the woman to allow you to speak freely.

"I was, am hurt that you lied to me, angry that you threatened our family and my wife with your machinations mother. You have made a mistake and whats worse is that you don't seem to even be trying for redemption, only avoiding it....but...you are my mother, you gave me life, and were there for me as much as anyone could ask given I was in the middle of no where being trained by a Kenku, and I know it wasn't your choice that I was trained so." you say.

Mother nods, and Takeshi frowns at you.

"I had intended to intimate to Hida Benjiro-san to ask for mother's hand, he will woo her, and treat her right or the wrath of the Lion and Emperor will rain down on him. After such a wooing, and marriage. Mother may be assigned by Hida Kuon-san to your court Takeshi for a time, but not long I think, you need to stand on your own feet." You say.

"...and when my dear son were you planning to tell me this?" your mother asks.

"Before I left for Kyuden Asako" You say simply.

Mother looks down at her hands.
"That you have not forced me to a nunnery is already more than I can hope, but as much as my heart wish to marry Benjiro and grow old with him, I do not know if that is wise my Emperor..." she says.

You tilt your head.
"There are two factions fighting in your shadow as you plunge ahead Hisao. One walks with you into an uncertain future, trusting in their strength and yours to carry them through. The other looks to the past and the traditions that you have swept aside and seeks to regain them. Neither is willing to fight you, when you have shown you would rather let the Empire burn than compromise what you think is best for it. But neither is willing to let the other continue unopposed" she says.

Takeshi folds his arms.
"So what, they'll take your marriage as a parting shot in that fight?"

"No, they'll take it as me trying to woo the Crab to neutrality." You say with a frown. "But that changes not my position, should mother wish it she will wed a man she has come to love in the next year. Even if these factions fight each other, then I will deal with it, like I deal with everything else." You say simply.

"...And father was the same way?" Takeshi asks.

Your mother chuckles. "Hai, and so are you, wills of iron that will not bend...to be honest its what attracted me to him." she bows. "Hisao...thank you, I have no right to your leniency. But I thank you" she says simply.

"You're my mother."

There's a smile on her face as she nods. A burden lifts from your shoulder. While you and your mother would likely never be close again, not as you were, to know that you two are okay, is something that makes you feel warm inside.
------------------
Month of the Rat 23rd Day (Early Winter)

Kyuden Asako, you decided was the least...grand of the great courts that you had visited in your tenure. Oh it was still beautiful in a stark meditative sort of way, and the great libraries would make any scholar positively giddy. But in the end your mind can't quite get into the rock gardens that make up much of the outer decor even in the middle of the snows. Although you suppose that's largely because while your wife is simply ecstatic to be in her homeland again, catching up in person with her family and numerous others. You can't help but listen to the winds of the Court.

The five sensei that Moto Chaghatai had put together were here each promising to teach your daughter to the best of their abilities as a guide. She was even being granted an Utaku steed on graduation regardless of which sensei you picked. All the same, the other words of your mother whispered. The Lion even with Takeshi your brother installed, still agitated loudly that the Unicorn were unfit to take care of your daughter. The Crane were more subtle parrying the Ide as they attempted to gain allies, even the Mantis seemed to abandon them. The Scorpion were for their part ensuring minor scandals for all of them while the Phoenix...the Phoenix were prepared to do so something.

Bah, you would face this with both fists if you must. One thing at a time as your own sensei had said.

[] Speak to the Crane to get them to knock this off
[] Talk to the Lion
[] Lean on the Scorpion
[] Look at the sensei.
 
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I... would not wish to speak to the Crane without something to give them. For the moment, the Scorpion are better fed.

[x] Lean on the Scorpion

I'll happily change my vote if we can come up with something that we *could* give them.

I feel like right now, they're basically saying "You are destroying the traditions that we hold dear, and also undermining our influence and also we are worried that there may not be much place for us in this new Rokugan you are building."

The fact is, we *are* destroying a number of the traditions they hold dear... and if we give them influence, they're highly likely to use it against us. I should like to come up with some sort of an answer for them that doesn't boil down to "sucks to be you". That's especially the case because there are real costs to our reforms, and real dangers, and those dangers are reflected in their concerns. honestly, if we could figure out a way to give them additional relevance in a way that actually helps guard against some of the dangers of our excesses (rather than just make them more difficult), that would be *ideal*. For the moment, though, I'm drawing a blank.
 
Winter Court IX: Kyuden Asako
---Lean on the Scorpion

In the end the Crane aren't going to stop unless you're willing to give them something. Probably education of your daughter. The Lion had similar conditions although mostly centering around firing Hida Ginchiyo and putting in a Lion for Shogun...and that was something you wouldn't do. The Shogun needed to be different from the Lion in case you had to fight the Lion, the lessons of your grandfather were too well ingrained.

So that left telling the Scorpion to stop being such pests. The minor scandals on all the clans weren't in of themselves something to get worked up about. But the fact that they kept hitting all those who would work for peace was.

Which is why in the Observatory of the castle, you were looking up at the night sky with Bayushi Sunetra. Her once midnight black hair had turned grey over the past few years, but rather than hide it, she had taken advantage of it, the Silver Rose of the Scorpion some called her. Naturally people still feared her thorns.

Around you the careful use of hibachi to keep the room warm as the stars danced across the night sky crackled with ambiance. Four Seppun guardsman and two Shiba waited on the walls, protecting you from all threats, even Sunetra would have had trouble assassinating you in this moment. She could do it naturally, but she wouldn't survive, and that wasn't to the benefit of the Scorpion.

Instead you sip a hot bitter tea that the locals called 'Asako's gift' for its ability to keep one awake through the night. Sunetra does the same, your gaze lifting up to the sky with hers.

"The stars are beautiful tonight my Emperor, I'm glad that I am able to see them with you." She says.

"Hai, to every one of them a place as accorded by the Heavens. They do as they are told. The elegance is quite nice" You say.

"Not all though, the Kappa star wanders where he will, as in accordance with his nature."

"The Kappa wanders slowly and only in a set path" You counter.

"But yet he wanders, and will not stop." She says.

"I am sure he would stop if commanded to"

"Perhaps, but perhaps not, the Heavens are immutable, no matter how many new Fortunes are appointed." Sunetra turns to face you fully.

You turn, meeting her steel blue eyes with your own.
"But that is their harmony, if the Kappa disrupts harmony..."

"Harmony is disrupted by those who seek to change the world. The Kappa does not." Sunetra says.

A veiled rebuke of you, nothing to act on, but a rebuke all the same. The Scorpion had no more wish to have the ancient ways of Rokugan discarded either...but it must change, the Empire could not become what it was. The ancient bonds had been destroyed by the Clan wars. The world had changed, and you couldn't force it back just because it made people outside of their comfort zone.

You hold her gaze all the same.

"So you think there would never be cause for the Kappa to cease his wandering?"

Sunetra turns to look at the stars again, bringing the hot tea to her lips slowly. Making a show of thinking about such weighty matters.

"Not within harmony of the Heavens no...not if it is being rearranged" She says at last.

You don't frown and give away the game so easily. But the blunt for a Scorpion refusal infuriates you. You could in fact order them to do it, and officially they would...but they had never started in the first place so there would be no change.

"Why do you think the Kappa wanders so?" you ask turning back to the sky.

"The old tales say the Kappa wanders forever looking to fill the water on his head again from the river of stars, unknowing that the Weaver takes it all whenever it is full" Sunetra answers.

"And what do you think?" You ask.

"I think the Kappa is unsure of where to go, or what to do, and thus it does what it knows best, if guidance, a place could be given, then it would take that place. But such is not its kharma." Sunetra says wryly.

"A place...hmm no the Kappa is too much a kappa to be given its place easily. What sort of place could it even have?" You wonder out loud.

"It could have a traditional place, are not kappa the guardians of forgotten river beds and others? Could the star not server as such in the River of Stars?" Sunetra replies in turn.

"The River of Stars has few places the Kappa could fulfill itself in its old ways. It would have to change somehow adapt." You reply in turn.

"Adapt, and change how much can it do so before it is no longer a kappa?" Sunetra asks finishing her tea.

"That I don't know, what I do know is that if does not, it may well face wrath for its impudence should the Heavens decree such and it is ignored" You say.

"If the Kappa star is doomed...it's kinder to let him wander until that doom I think" she says.

"Even if he could be saved if he was told he could change?" You ask.

"How does the Little Teacher say? One should not pet a scorpion expecting different results. Can the kappa change? Perhaps, but only its surface, not its nature." Sunetra says.

"And the nature of harmony is change...." you murmur.

"The river does not stop being the river, even if it never sleeps in the same place twice."

"And that is that then, nothing can assuage the river or the kappa?"

"With respect my Emperor. If you were the river or the kappa, what would make you change?" she asks.

You don't wince, but its good point all the same. The Scorpion perhaps more than any clan save the Crane benefited from the traditions of the Empire. You tore out their laws, you tore out their taxes, you've essentially allowed them to self destruct under Paneki while doing the bare minimum to support them. Paneki's loyalty to your aunt is such that along with Ayumi they will not rebel...but its hard to say that you've made a place for them even your Kizoku is an Otomo rather than a Scorpion. But then...what could you give them? Ayumi has by dint of her own talents formed a formidable spy network, and even now is deftly maintaining the Pact while avoiding other troubles.

Their traditional place was to be the underhand of the Empire to do the things that needed to be done but were too dishonourable for anyone else...and to serve as a scapegoat. Yet, you didn't use them for that and stripped much of their cover. Their anger was understandable...but it was also unacceptable, you needed to do something to reassure them...or you could let this play out. Ultimately the Scorpion were targeting everyone more or less equally, so it could even be said they were simply doing their role.

But what if...you told them their place.
The Charters, your grandfather had granted all of the Great Clans and minor ones to establish their place. You could issue them a new to conform to the new laws. To reassure them of their place...it would be hard to do so without angering anyone, but you could do it.

Sunetra kowtows.

"I must apologize my Emperor but even with the hibachi and wonderful tea, this one doesn't quite gaze under the stars as well as she used to, not without a little closer companionship" She says giving just a hint of promise with the quirk of her lips.

You nod. "Hai hai...good night Bayushi-san."

Despite the fact that you could feel three of your guards watching Sunetra sashay out of the observatory, your mind was working hard on the idea of the Charters. It could work...but you had to defuse this whole thing with the Unicorn first.

[] Talk to the Crane
[] Talk to the Lion
[] Talk to the Unicorn
[] Write in
 
The thing is, we *do* need the Scorpion. We have multiple hidden plotters that need to be uncovered, we need someone to be the paranoid arm of our diplomatic corps, and we're likely to need the spies and saboteurs. The problem is that, too often, we haven't had enough influence with them to use them for that yet (or the money to pay for it).

...

I am concerned by the narrative arc, here. This could very easily be the point where, looking back, people called it the beginning of the end. We have way too many of our clans allied against us here. They're not saying that they think we're weak and can be taken advantage of. They're not saying that they disagree with some specific choice we've made. They're crying out that they can't take it anymore, and that something's got to give. We've basically told them that our intended policies are an existential threat to their way of life and that we absolutely refuse to compromise ever... and we've demonstrated enough overt power that they can't fight it openly. We have to give them *some* reason to hope.

I think that we may need to admit openly that we have made a mistake, and pushed things too far, too fast. I think that they see our placing our heir with the Unicorn to be effectively saying "you'll be obsolete in a generation unless you do something drastic" and I don't think that's unreasonable. I don't think it behooves us to put them in that sort of a position.

I think we have already made massive changes to the fabric of Rokugan, and enabled more. I think we may need to let them settle in for a generation or more before we make any further.

Huh... and that's actually an interesting thought for part of the Scorpion's Place... to act as the Emperor's Fool, to tell him things that others will not. Regardless, some variation on "I was having a discussion under the stars with the Scorpion, and came to a few realizations" would certainly give a boost to *their* Clan rating.

Not sure how to make *any* of that into a vote, though... and I'd be interested in hearing feedback from others before I even thought to try.
 
Top notch double speak there.
And good analysis Sirocco. Both our actions as questors and the narrative that the card game imposes may have tricked us into thinking our goal in this quest was to drag Rokugan kicking and screaming into something matching our cultural values. And it kind of belies that for millenia in lore, basically nothing changed. There are precious few still alive who remember the time before the clan wars however its still a part of the empires cultural memory
 
[X] Talk to the Lion

Just to get things started.

I figure that relations between the Lion and the Unicorn were really high do to the glass golem war and the events of the Unicorn winter court. So mending things between them should be relatively easy. Plus we can probably trust the Akodo to be honest about their worries to Hisao. That and if this is just about the rivalry between Chagatai and Shigetoshi, he won't lie about it. (Even if he would be that petty). Plus reassuring them about still being the Right hand should be easier than trying to convince the Crane about them still being the Left Hand.

But I trust tiny squid to help refine this.
 
I think...

Yeah. I think we're going to have to fold. At the same time, the manner in which we fold can be tuned, and hearing out each of the belligerent clans *before* we fold will make them feel better about being listened to. Of the three, the Crane are the ones with the worst clan rating (by about 15 points).

I'm thinking... Okay, I really do want to give *something* to the Crane. They aren't going to be happy with anything purely ceremonial. If it doesn't have any actual meat to it, they'll see it for the placating gesture that it is. The Crane *like* placating gestures. They mean that we care enough about how they feel to placate them... but it's not going to be enough this time. Optimally, it would be some sort of political position with actual teeth, but it's gong to be a bit hard to come up with one of those that will have them showing a degree of judgement, rather than hitting the brakes as hard as they possibly can.

As for the Scorpion... honestly, our *big* issues right now are Shahai and the Kolat. The Kolat in particular is a problem because our reforms will have been feeding them resources. Giving them resources and mandate to seek out and destroy the aforementioned would both give them the place that they're seeking, and let them step on the merchant class a bit. The only trick to it would be setting things up so that they're *mostly* targeting the merchants who are actually disloyal... so that people learn "being a disloyal merchant is a possible death sentence" rather than "being a merchant is a possible death sentence".

For the Crane... perhaps revive the role of Imperial Chancellor? We've been having an issue of "you haven't been listening to your clans enough", and it seems like a very Crane-like role.

For the Lion... they don't like where we're going, but they're not doing *all* that badly on getting there. Given the Yodotai, it's not like our need for large impressive standing armies is going *down*. I think some viable reassurances that we're dialing it back should do the trick.

...and for dialing it back... yeah, I think that recanting sending the heir to the Phoenix might be the right move after all. That suggests that we'll want to go to the Unicorn last, so that we can talk them through the issue, and (effectively) apologize... or at least acknowledge.

so... given all that, as far as raw order goes....

[X] Talk to the Lion

The Crane makes sense as last of the belligerents to talk with. It'll let us more openly discuss options with them, as we can suggest that the other two have softened us up.
 
@Sirrocco the Imperial Chancellor is in position, its Shosuro Jimen, he's just not really doing his job for whatever reason :thonk: and somehow ended up a nonentity
So he is.

He's... apparently not a person of interest? Also, the Scorpion have both the Chancellor slot *and* the Commissioner slot, as well as the acknowledgement of their usefulness on the battlefield (Hi, Paneki!) and they're complaining that they're not relevant because we didn't give them Kizoku *too*?

I suppose it at least continues the tradition of Imperial Chancellors being *terrible people*... and at least he's not Emerald Champion.

Maybe we could strip him of the position for having utterly failed to do his job, and *then* give it to the Crane? Eh... the Scorpion would probably disapprove.
 
Imperial Chancellor is in fact not something that you can strip. Its entirely chosen by the clans. That's kind of the feature of the gig, that barring someone showing you actively being a traitor you can't really be stripped of the position. Paneki may in fact have his own issues with Jomen but for now consider him more valuable where he is than dead.
 
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