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Strategic Arms Quest 3/2: Armor Edition

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Dwergar said:
Guys, when looking for 4-ton mover, don't ask for armor or no-mans-land.
10,5 and 15,5 wouldn't be moved there before engineers make sure they can be supplied with loads of ammunition, in any case.
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Let's look at RL German 10.5cm gun - leFH 16. Travel weight 2870kg, shell weight 15kg, rate of fire 6-8 shells/min.

For example, we want it to be active for at least an hour of combat. Then our mover should carry (60-T)*(6~8)*15kg of shells, where T is the time spent turning the gun around for a new target or defending it from ambushing enemies or other reason (when we are not shooting). Let us say T is around 10 minutes/hour. Thus, at worst, we need 750*8 = 6000kg of ammo to support one gun for an hour.
What?
Unless some shells are included in the travel weight (because combat weight is around 1,5 tons), we would have a hard time keeping it running. If we say T = 20min, RoF = 6/min, then we "only" need 600*6=3600kg of ammo for a single hour.

To sum up: if we want to move a 105mm cannon up, we better ask for at least 6t (3600 + 1500 + artillery crew ~= 5.5t) carry capacity.
Do we even need a heavy mover right now?
 
FortTell said:
Let's look at RL German 10.5cm gun - leFH 16. Travel weight 2870kg, shell weight 15kg, rate of fire 6-8 shells/min.

For example, we want it to be active for at least an hour of combat. Then our mover should carry (60-T)*(6~8)*15kg of shells, where T is the time spent turning the gun around for a new target or defending it from ambushing enemies or other reason (when we are not shooting). Let us say T is around 10 minutes/hour. Thus, at worst, we need 750*8 = 6000kg of ammo to support one gun for an hour.
What?
Unless some shells are included in the travel weight (because combat weight is around 1,5 tons), we would have a hard time keeping it running. If we say T = 20min, RoF = 6/min, then we "only" need 600*6=3600kg of ammo for a single hour.

To sum up: if we want to move a 105mm cannon up, we better ask for at least 6t (3600 + 1500 + artillery crew ~= 5.5t) carry capacity.
Do we even need a heavy mover right now?
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Well... Then we shall take Kubotan 6-ton halftrack or Ebro's 8-ton 6-wheeled steam monstrosity. No other variants.
Ebro's is tested by time, Kubotan is, well, not a 6-wheeled steam monstrosity. Pick.
 
I think I might favor the steam monstrosity. It's a tested, proven and reliable design, with the associated pool of experienced operators and mechanics out there, and steam provides logistical flexibility and perhaps conserves resources, fuel and manufacturing capacity that could be better used elsewhere.
 
Based on the descriptions in the latest informational, I'm going to stick with my vote for a simple plan, slightly modified to permit the possibility of wheeled/halftrack vehicles and a preference for tracks. We apparently don't have the budget to support any revisions, so we just have to ask people what's in their catalogs. I'm not fully satisfied with the G.300, but it will do the job. It might even be worth greenlighting smaller tractors on that line for the 3.5cm and 5.5cm guns.

@7734, one thing I'm still unclear on: other than speed, how do the halftrack options stack up with respect to carrying capacity, armor, and cost versus the off the shelf tractors?
 
Himmelhand said:
@7734, one thing I'm still unclear on: other than speed, how do the halftrack options stack up with respect to carrying capacity, armor, and cost versus the off the shelf tractors?
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The halftrack tractors are about even with the wheeled tractors, although they trade tongue weight in exchange for ground pressure and a more sturdy frame in general. Still not getting any armor on them, though.
 
Keep voting guys, but don't expect an update for a while. I'm nearly done with NERVous Breakdown, so updates will resume in... roughly a week. Until then, have fun doing research.
 
So it sounds like the pseudo-interwar period is coming up soon. How do we best make use of the presumably low budgets of the era? Personally I'm inclined to push for better engines, transmissions, suspension, etc. more than weapons or armor. After all, there's not much use for a gun that can't get to the battle.
 
Himmelhand said:
So it sounds like the pseudo-interwar period is coming up soon. How do we best make use of the presumably low budgets of the era? Personally I'm inclined to push for better engines, transmissions, suspension, etc. more than weapons or armor. After all, there's not much use for a gun that can't get to the battle.
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Do keep in mind that we're going to be in the position of Weimar Germany or close to it because we lost the Great War. I think we're going to be primarily focusing on getting creative dodging treaty regs to get *something* done on an "I can't believe it isn't a tank" basis.
 
Michael Lewis said:
Do keep in mind that we're going to be in the position of Weimar Germany or close to it because we lost the Great War. I think we're going to be primarily focusing on getting creative dodging treaty regs to get *something* done on an "I can't believe it isn't a tank" basis.
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Wait, aren't we the ones who just won the war?
 
Michael Lewis said:
To be sure, what's the other 2/3?
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The Empire of Balkchivian and Kingdom of Carragia/Princedom of Dombla are still in the fight, as far as you're concerned. Most of the rest of the minors are only in the coalition at gunpoint now.
Adhoc vote count started by 7734 on Jun 18, 2018 at 9:47 PM, finished with 34 posts and 8 votes.
  • [X][Name] Otto and Simon
    [X][Testing] Plan Shoestring
    [x][name] Frederik & Oskar
    [X][Testing] Plan Shoestring
    -[X]Accept the KTW-2 for the assault gun role.
    -[X]Accept the G.300 for the light-medium hauler due to all-terrain mobility. The lack of armor and limited speed is a small price to pay for the ability to readily cross rough terrain.
    -[X]RFQ: Request proposals from contractors for a heavy tractor that MUST meet the following specifications for consideration:
    --[X]Capable of moving at least 5 km/h over broken ground under load
    --[X]Carrying capacity of 4500kg towed and/or onboard
    --[X]Additionally, the following features are preferred but not mandatory:
    ---[X]Capability to mount minimal armor resistant to shell fragments from a reasonable distance while maintaining above capacity
    ---[X]Room to carry gun crews safely in addition to above hauling capacity
    ---[X]Fully tracked
    [X][Testing] Plan Commonality
    -[X]Accept the KTW-2 for the assault gun role.
    -[X]Request a disarmed KTW-2 variant for the light-medium hauler.
    --[X] This should be literally as simple as a KTW-2 without the gun, with minimal provisions for using the space it and its ammo would have taken up for cargo and the ability to tow a trailer.
    --[X] They'v got the contract if they can deliver exactly that with no issues or complications, but we can't afford a round of revisions and problem solving.
    --[X] If this would cost too much relative to the other options, suggest supplementing them with the half-track for situations in which armor and crossing rough terrain is less important, such as a little farther back.
    --[X] If nothing of this sort is possible at all, approve the G.300.
    -[X]RFQ: Request proposals from contractors for a heavy tractor that MUST meet the following specifications for consideration:
    --[X]Mobility on full or partial tracks capable of moving at least 5 km/h over broken ground under load
    --[X]Carrying capacity of 4500kg towed and/or onboard
    --[X]Additionally, the following features are preferred but not mandatory:
    ---[X]Capability to mount minimal armor resistant to shell fragments from a reasonable distance while maintaining above capacity
    ---[X]Room to carry gun crews safely in addition to above hauling capacity
    ---[X]Fully tracked
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What's the general opinion of tanks and tank derivatives at this point? Have they gone beyond being novelties?
 
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Contest 4: Contest Select
  • Threadmarks
    • After handling the birth of your boys and firing off some vague acceptance of the KTW-2 and G.300 models, you braced for the fact you had kids. Ahhh, kids. Yay.

    Of course, that's when about the Carrigians decided to dissolve in revolt, with the rebel faction agreeing to a very generous peace deal that would probably tick off the Wessers. While this freed up a number of divisions for the existent fronts, High Command was worried about making sure production was acceptable. As such, the Artillery Branch had accepted your decision to buy the G.300, called your job done, and dismissed your entire office. You kept your rank, of course, but now you were a General Officer, attached to a clerical department.

    It was another year before the Wessers negotiated peace with the Balkhs, and since you weren't exactly sharing a land border with them that meant you were signing the peace deal too. With the war ended and the General Staff de-inflated, you found yourself doing more clerical work on the newly-emerging art of Operational Research, making a few friends of your younger officers in the process. The fact Anne-Marie loved playing matchmaker didn't hurt, and things were fairly fine in the marriage with little Oskar and Klaus growing up (Frederik getting shot down as a name by the wife) until such point you thought life couldn't get any better.

    Naturally, that's when your footloose and fancy-free brother came back to the Empire, with one wife and far too many mistresses in tow, along with the resulting company of children. He'd done well for himself, apparently, and wanted to share the joy. Anne-Marie and yourself most empathetically did not want to share the joy of la Merezude cooking and spices and rice wine at all hours, and you devised a Cunning Plan to get your brother out of the house. You would need to be in Potsdam on business for a month or three, while your darling wife was luring Mother back into the city in an attempt to either bait your brother back into the family castle or into heading back to his tropical island home. Anything to get him permanently out of your apartment building!

    Which developmental project do you want to request assignment to?

    [] Your colonies in Schutzgebiet Volta and Nyasaland want a military atache to help them acquire the nucleus of an armored force so they can finally annex the fucking Balkh neighbors who are nominally independent and send in Fucking Cossacks to burn their shit.
    [] The Seebatalions are getting real fucking tired of fighting in cities and in reinforcing colonies, so they want a tank. There's one catch, though: they barely know what a tank is, but they know that One Navy guy said you were alright.
    [] In the aftermath of the war, a radical new proposal has popped up for increasing the effectiveness of heavy assault elements: give them their own mini-tank thing to perform the role of the vernerable W-2 by hauling a machine gun and maybe a light cannon around. This time, though, it'll also haul dudes too so they can get past machine gun nests and hit trench lines in the rear!

    AN: After last contest, here's a bit more obvious of a Difficulty Select screen.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • I want the breakthrough IFV but I don't think technology will let us be happy there. What is the current state of armored cars in universe?

    I don't like the idea of going to the colonies because it takes us away from home and family. Gotta keep the waifu happy! Plus, the colonies probably don't have a lot of budget or infrastructure to support armored forces.

    For the Seebattalion the answer is clearly to crossbreed the SzW-1 and a torpedo boat. Is this a tank for urban fighting or for supporting amphibious assaults?
     
    Himmelhand said:
    For the Seebattalion the answer is clearly to crossbreed the SzW-1 and a torpedo boat. Is this a tank for urban fighting or for supporting amphibious assaults?
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    They're not quite sure yet either. All they know is that they do breakthrough shit, armor works, and it sucks being on the recieving end.
     
    [x] The Seebatalions are getting real fucking tired of fighting in cities and in reinforcing colonies, so they want a tank. There's one catch, though: they barely know what a tank is, but they know that One Navy guy said you were alright.

    water tanks! no, not those.
     
    [x] The Seebatalions are getting real fucking tired of fighting in cities and in reinforcing colonies, so they want a tank. There's one catch, though: they barely know what a tank is, but they know that One Navy guy said you were alright.​

    Die floatietonk​
     
    [x] The Seebatalions are getting real fucking tired of fighting in cities and in reinforcing colonies, so they want a tank. There's one catch, though: they barely know what a tank is, but they know that One Navy guy said you were alright.
     
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