Strategic Arms Quest 3/2: Armor Edition
- Thread starter 7734
- Start date
- Original
Breakthrough Strategy
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Currently, the plan is yes. The organizational niche is for them to push up as the first heavy elements after a breakthrough so to support more free-ranging elements. This is universely regarded as mildly risky, since once the hole is punched through there's a lot of scrambling to push it closed. Currently the modus operandi for sealing a breech that doesn't leave the units its going through absolutely shattered is to use packet movement to shore up the sides to keep it from widening while waiting for the back-line units to come in to stop it from turning into a general breech and rout.
The idea behind the SPG project and artillery tractor is to get the short artillery, which is actually liable to to be in position for organic on-call support, into position faster and dig out the side elements so that the breakthrough formation can drag in their backup formations and actually be in position to punch the advancing units off before the enemy reinforcements can get their big hitters into position to start slamming in. When it takes 105s and 155s to really gut a trench network, you need something big enough to keep them on the back foot so they can't get those huge guns into position.
And for people wondering how this ties into the armor doctrine... well, what opened the door for this to happen in the first place?
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
300 is still stupid; for comparison, StuGs carried 54 rounds.
If firing in the artillery role, the 75mm might see a burst of 15-30 RPM (dependent on crew fatigue and training), but most of the time, sustained fire is more like 3-4 RPM.
[X] Plan What Is This I Don't Even
If firing in the artillery role, the 75mm might see a burst of 15-30 RPM (dependent on crew fatigue and training), but most of the time, sustained fire is more like 3-4 RPM.
[X] Plan What Is This I Don't Even
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7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
These things are expected to be the largest artillery on call for about a week, since beating a trail through No Man's Land can take at least three days fit supply wagons. Moving the regimental artillery- 7,5cm pieces- is expected to take a week, and brigade and divisional assets can take a month or more. The issue is endurance in the face of the enemy, especially when they have more guns or air superiority.
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
9 voters, not 4. I don't know where you got 4 from, but I'm not sure it matters, compared to that you are going to "start shit" presumably for our player character.
Contest 3: RFQ 2
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
The minute you got your good staff ready to roll, you started hitting roadblocks. For starters, actually getting a good staff was a headache and a half. Nobody had actually planned on this project working, so it had been the shuffle-off of every moron in the entire Landwere. Fotunatly, you had a way to get rid of them- just sit down with a few of Dad's friends in charge of Erstazregiments, who got them pulled.
The fact they spent half of it ogling how mamoth Anne-Marie had gotten with children was only half of it. The other half, naturally, was alcohol and some of your steadily disappearing stash of tobacco. Damn the blockade- you needed a smoke to get through this garbage project. Pulling in new hands took all your time, so much so you couldn't really get along a testing slot in at the prooving grounds. You barely got time to inspect the vehicle and interview the crew, and the results were enlightening.
To start, the vehicle was quite literally the rhombus tracks of the AV-4 and engine systems, but instead it totally lacked sponsons in exchange for a aquward-looking tower sticking out of the back over the engine with the self-defense machine gun. Inside, there was as promised three hundred round of munitions in the sidewalls, the 7,5cm gun, and room for the gunner in a bucket seat with a gyrocompass, elevation indicator, plumb, and a couple of tables scratched into the metal of the tank by hand of round drop. You recognized those tables- they were just normal gunnery ones. The commander's position had some other notes on the metal, and a set of speaking tubes to the communication tower. It appeared they were to use semaphore for most things, apparently.
According to the crew, it worked beautifully. They could last for about a week of simulated fire missions, reloading the massive internal magazines wasn't too much of a headache (Only sixty shells were kept in a ready rack; the rest were stored in cases in the floor and sidewalls) and as far as tracked vehicles went it wasn't actually based off the AV-4 like you'd suspected- rather, it was built off the AV-12 design, the same hull with a massive internal improvement in… almost everything. It appeared the Wersers were more than willing to innovate and redesign, even if Thryssen was hidebound to the old ways.
For tractors, your much-diminished staff got to work sorting out the offers before they hit a snag. Only three of them were actually tracked fully- the Ursus G.240, the G.260, and G.300. Coincidentally, the only one that could haul three thousand kilos solo was the G.300, and it had no armor what to speak of, or even any place to put it. Each one would run sixty Thalers one hundred ten kreutzers, but a military contract should bring the costs down significantly, and production was still ongoing due to the need for tractors in other parts of the war effort like bulk supply hauling.
The only catch? It was slow as the oxen at a blistering five kilometers an hour when under load. A company rep from Kubota acridly informed you they had a half-track design that could hit ten kilometers an hour under the load, but they were understanding of the need to prioritize rough terrain… if these were getting used for rough terrain.
Which they probably weren't, because neck deep in documents and paper trails you'd lost and forgotten in the high seas boarding action of a takeover you'd done, there was a crystal clear requirement from the Artillery that they wanted two prime movers- a large tractor for the 15,5cm and 10,5cm guns, and a smaller one for everything else. The G.300 would work for the former, but you were gonna need to find something else to haul… four… thousand… kilos… of gun.
Yeah, coming in with a broom in one hand and bleach in the other, you shouldn't have expected this much progress before you ran out of money. Well, time to find where you kept the last of the whiskey-
-make that champagne, because you just got a telegram that Anne-Marie just had her water break. Now you had to rush to the general hospital and think of boy's names and holy shit this was a big day ahh!
((This is a PLAN VOTE; you need an RFQ for a heavy trailer and maybe a new RFQ or buy order for the G.300 since it's as good as you're going to get off the shelf.))
((Also, you're almost out of cash))
((And you need to think of names for your new two sons.))
The fact they spent half of it ogling how mamoth Anne-Marie had gotten with children was only half of it. The other half, naturally, was alcohol and some of your steadily disappearing stash of tobacco. Damn the blockade- you needed a smoke to get through this garbage project. Pulling in new hands took all your time, so much so you couldn't really get along a testing slot in at the prooving grounds. You barely got time to inspect the vehicle and interview the crew, and the results were enlightening.
To start, the vehicle was quite literally the rhombus tracks of the AV-4 and engine systems, but instead it totally lacked sponsons in exchange for a aquward-looking tower sticking out of the back over the engine with the self-defense machine gun. Inside, there was as promised three hundred round of munitions in the sidewalls, the 7,5cm gun, and room for the gunner in a bucket seat with a gyrocompass, elevation indicator, plumb, and a couple of tables scratched into the metal of the tank by hand of round drop. You recognized those tables- they were just normal gunnery ones. The commander's position had some other notes on the metal, and a set of speaking tubes to the communication tower. It appeared they were to use semaphore for most things, apparently.
According to the crew, it worked beautifully. They could last for about a week of simulated fire missions, reloading the massive internal magazines wasn't too much of a headache (Only sixty shells were kept in a ready rack; the rest were stored in cases in the floor and sidewalls) and as far as tracked vehicles went it wasn't actually based off the AV-4 like you'd suspected- rather, it was built off the AV-12 design, the same hull with a massive internal improvement in… almost everything. It appeared the Wersers were more than willing to innovate and redesign, even if Thryssen was hidebound to the old ways.
For tractors, your much-diminished staff got to work sorting out the offers before they hit a snag. Only three of them were actually tracked fully- the Ursus G.240, the G.260, and G.300. Coincidentally, the only one that could haul three thousand kilos solo was the G.300, and it had no armor what to speak of, or even any place to put it. Each one would run sixty Thalers one hundred ten kreutzers, but a military contract should bring the costs down significantly, and production was still ongoing due to the need for tractors in other parts of the war effort like bulk supply hauling.
The only catch? It was slow as the oxen at a blistering five kilometers an hour when under load. A company rep from Kubota acridly informed you they had a half-track design that could hit ten kilometers an hour under the load, but they were understanding of the need to prioritize rough terrain… if these were getting used for rough terrain.
Which they probably weren't, because neck deep in documents and paper trails you'd lost and forgotten in the high seas boarding action of a takeover you'd done, there was a crystal clear requirement from the Artillery that they wanted two prime movers- a large tractor for the 15,5cm and 10,5cm guns, and a smaller one for everything else. The G.300 would work for the former, but you were gonna need to find something else to haul… four… thousand… kilos… of gun.
Yeah, coming in with a broom in one hand and bleach in the other, you shouldn't have expected this much progress before you ran out of money. Well, time to find where you kept the last of the whiskey-
-make that champagne, because you just got a telegram that Anne-Marie just had her water break. Now you had to rush to the general hospital and think of boy's names and holy shit this was a big day ahh!
((This is a PLAN VOTE; you need an RFQ for a heavy trailer and maybe a new RFQ or buy order for the G.300 since it's as good as you're going to get off the shelf.))
((Also, you're almost out of cash))
((And you need to think of names for your new two sons.))
globalwarmth
ruining the weather.
- Location
- Polar ice caps
[x][name] Frederik & Oskar
edit
[X][Testing] Plan Shoestring
edit
[X][Testing] Plan Shoestring
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7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[x][name] Frederik & Oskar
I was initially going to suggest Skoda and Wanderer, but I figured that would be rather uncomfortable for both kids.
I won't make an RFQ yet, as it's late here and I'm tired. Will probably throw something together tomorrow (or help do so). Though I'm tempted to just go with the G.300 and/or the half-track.
I was initially going to suggest Skoda and Wanderer, but I figured that would be rather uncomfortable for both kids.
I won't make an RFQ yet, as it's late here and I'm tired. Will probably throw something together tomorrow (or help do so). Though I'm tempted to just go with the G.300 and/or the half-track.
- Location
- Somewhere
[x][name] Frederik & Oskar
[X][testing] ask for a G.300 and one of those half-tracks, and pay two people to drive around in them with a load until they malfunction five times. Record how long they run between malfunctions and other handling characteristics.
[X][testing] ask for a G.300 and one of those half-tracks, and pay two people to drive around in them with a load until they malfunction five times. Record how long they run between malfunctions and other handling characteristics.
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
- Location
- Midwestern US
Finally got some time for this! Putting out a provisional plan, pending the answer to some questions.
@7734:
The heavy guns are 4000 kg, what is the ammo load like for them?
Aside from the speed of the halftrack, how does it measure up to the other requirements of the prior RFQ? Crew space, armor, etc.?
[X][Name] Otto and Simon
[X][Testing] Plan Shoestring
-[X]Accept the KTW-2 for the assault gun role.
-[X]Accept the G.300 for the light-medium hauler due to all-terrain mobility. The lack of armor and limited speed is a small price to pay for the ability to readily cross rough terrain.
-[X]RFQ: Request proposals from contractors for a heavy tractor that MUST meet the following specifications for consideration:
--[X]Capable of moving at least 5 km/h over broken ground under load
--[X]Carrying capacity of 4500kg towed and/or onboard
--[X]Additionally, the following features are preferred but not mandatory:
---[X]Capability to mount minimal armor resistant to shell fragments from a reasonable distance while maintaining above capacity
---[X]Room to carry gun crews safely in addition to above hauling capacity
---[X]Fully tracked
@7734:
The heavy guns are 4000 kg, what is the ammo load like for them?
Aside from the speed of the halftrack, how does it measure up to the other requirements of the prior RFQ? Crew space, armor, etc.?
[X][Name] Otto and Simon
[X][Testing] Plan Shoestring
-[X]Accept the KTW-2 for the assault gun role.
-[X]Accept the G.300 for the light-medium hauler due to all-terrain mobility. The lack of armor and limited speed is a small price to pay for the ability to readily cross rough terrain.
-[X]RFQ: Request proposals from contractors for a heavy tractor that MUST meet the following specifications for consideration:
--[X]Capable of moving at least 5 km/h over broken ground under load
--[X]Carrying capacity of 4500kg towed and/or onboard
--[X]Additionally, the following features are preferred but not mandatory:
---[X]Capability to mount minimal armor resistant to shell fragments from a reasonable distance while maintaining above capacity
---[X]Room to carry gun crews safely in addition to above hauling capacity
---[X]Fully tracked
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- Location
- Somewhere
Money.
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
- Location
- Midwestern US
It depends on what the boss says about the Kubota's other performance aside from speed. Halftracks likely won't perform well crossing no-man's land, so if we're using these to support a breakthrough they will be dependent on support assets bridging trenches, etc.
This definitely makes sense to me, but we might be constrained by budget limitations. Another question for @7734, then. Is there room in the budget to request unarmed variants of existing tracked vehicles to serve as movers?
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Well, historically, several of the combatants in OTL WW2 used halftrack prime movers at one point or another. So might as well give it a shot.
Or open it up to wheels as well, who knows.
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[X][Testing] Plan Commonality
-[X]Accept the KTW-2 for the assault gun role.
-[X]Request a disarmed KTW-2 variant for the light-medium hauler.
--[X] This should be literally as simple as a KTW-2 without the gun, with minimal provisions for using the space it and its ammo would have taken up for cargo and the ability to tow a trailer.
--[X] They'v got the contract if they can deliver exactly that with no issues or complications, but we can't afford a round of revisions and problem solving.
--[X] If this would cost too much relative to the other options, suggest supplementing them with the half-track for situations in which armor and crossing rough terrain is less important, such as a little farther back.
--[X] If nothing of this sort is possible at all, approve the G.300.
-[X]RFQ: Request proposals from contractors for a heavy tractor that MUST meet the following specifications for consideration:
--[X]Mobility on full or partial tracks capable of moving at least 5 km/h over broken ground under load
--[X]Carrying capacity of 4500kg towed and/or onboard
--[X]Additionally, the following features are preferred but not mandatory:
---[X]Capability to mount minimal armor resistant to shell fragments from a reasonable distance while maintaining above capacity
---[X]Room to carry gun crews safely in addition to above hauling capacity
---[X]Fully tracked
-[X]Accept the KTW-2 for the assault gun role.
-[X]Request a disarmed KTW-2 variant for the light-medium hauler.
--[X] This should be literally as simple as a KTW-2 without the gun, with minimal provisions for using the space it and its ammo would have taken up for cargo and the ability to tow a trailer.
--[X] They'v got the contract if they can deliver exactly that with no issues or complications, but we can't afford a round of revisions and problem solving.
--[X] If this would cost too much relative to the other options, suggest supplementing them with the half-track for situations in which armor and crossing rough terrain is less important, such as a little farther back.
--[X] If nothing of this sort is possible at all, approve the G.300.
-[X]RFQ: Request proposals from contractors for a heavy tractor that MUST meet the following specifications for consideration:
--[X]Mobility on full or partial tracks capable of moving at least 5 km/h over broken ground under load
--[X]Carrying capacity of 4500kg towed and/or onboard
--[X]Additionally, the following features are preferred but not mandatory:
---[X]Capability to mount minimal armor resistant to shell fragments from a reasonable distance while maintaining above capacity
---[X]Room to carry gun crews safely in addition to above hauling capacity
---[X]Fully tracked
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
No, because you're down to your payroll allotment and the office liquor cabinent for funds.
Guys, when looking for 4-ton mover, don't ask for armor or no-mans-land.
10,5 and 15,5 wouldn't be moved there before engineers make sure they can be supplied with loads of ammunition, in any case.
Now, "light" 2-ton mover for everything lesser than full-blown 10,5 and 15,5, for that we should look at something capable of moving through no man's land and hopefully armored.
10,5 and 15,5 wouldn't be moved there before engineers make sure they can be supplied with loads of ammunition, in any case.
Now, "light" 2-ton mover for everything lesser than full-blown 10,5 and 15,5, for that we should look at something capable of moving through no man's land and hopefully armored.
Money
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
So, since you guys jumped from the tutorial level to the medium level to DARK SOULS MODE I've decided I'll actually get around to explaining how money works.
First, it needs to be clarified that the monetary pool isn't a fixed and finite resource. It ebbs and flows, depending on the mood of High Command and the Civil Government.
Second, your monetary pool is a diminishing resource. Every turn, it goes down depending on how your votes go. This is from the static costs of running an office- paying the telephone and telegraph bills, buying postage, filling the coffee pots, and leaving the night light on.
Third, the rate at which your money pool diminishes depends on your votes. Big plans that do a lot cost more than small plans, and complex line items cost more than simple line items, and line items increase in cost according to an exponential growth formula that starts kicking you at about line seven and aims for the balls at ten. If your line item has a period to diffferentite a new sentence, then that's an extra kick in the budget. Most of this is due to the need to pay overtime, send telegrams versus telegraphs, hire couriers, use the Staff Car, take long-distance calls, and pay stenographers.
Fourth, testing will eat your budget alive. If you plan on having two test trials, get ready to skrimp and save everywhere else, because time and money are tied together real damn tight. Try to spend more time, spend less money. Spend more money, spend less time. Spend any time using a testing ground (where a lot of units get broken in since training grounds are expensive as hell) and you're gonna end up bleeding cash at a stiff rate.
Fifth, leftover money and personal funds can't be spent on projects. This isn't the Early Modern Era, boyos.
First, it needs to be clarified that the monetary pool isn't a fixed and finite resource. It ebbs and flows, depending on the mood of High Command and the Civil Government.
Second, your monetary pool is a diminishing resource. Every turn, it goes down depending on how your votes go. This is from the static costs of running an office- paying the telephone and telegraph bills, buying postage, filling the coffee pots, and leaving the night light on.
Third, the rate at which your money pool diminishes depends on your votes. Big plans that do a lot cost more than small plans, and complex line items cost more than simple line items, and line items increase in cost according to an exponential growth formula that starts kicking you at about line seven and aims for the balls at ten. If your line item has a period to diffferentite a new sentence, then that's an extra kick in the budget. Most of this is due to the need to pay overtime, send telegrams versus telegraphs, hire couriers, use the Staff Car, take long-distance calls, and pay stenographers.
Fourth, testing will eat your budget alive. If you plan on having two test trials, get ready to skrimp and save everywhere else, because time and money are tied together real damn tight. Try to spend more time, spend less money. Spend more money, spend less time. Spend any time using a testing ground (where a lot of units get broken in since training grounds are expensive as hell) and you're gonna end up bleeding cash at a stiff rate.
Fifth, leftover money and personal funds can't be spent on projects. This isn't the Early Modern Era, boyos.
That's a really clever way to handle this. I like it a lot, at least in principle. However, it also creates a whole other layer of complexity that we've had no clue about thus far, much to our detriment. Thanks for filling us in.