From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
- Location
- Reno
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[x] [Prisoners] Temporary labour/prisoner exchange
[x] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
[x] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
- Location
- United States
[X] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
Dealing with the prisoners and avoiding sabotage would be a real headache.
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
Dealing with the prisoners and avoiding sabotage would be a real headache.
- Location
- Canada
[X] [Tool] Make being attacked difficult (Improve Palisade)
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
[X] [Tool] Make being attacked difficult (Improve Palisade)
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
- Location
- United States
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
[X] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
Too annoying to keep a destabilizing force in our settlements on the off chance we can maybe get the Northern Hundred Bands to agree to an exchange.
We're also not going to always have the luxury of being able to hide in palisades all the time. Sooner or later they'll threaten another settlement and force us to either let them sack it or leave the walls and try to help. Forging an alliance with someone we're on good terms with already seems like a sensible idea.
[X] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
Too annoying to keep a destabilizing force in our settlements on the off chance we can maybe get the Northern Hundred Bands to agree to an exchange.
We're also not going to always have the luxury of being able to hide in palisades all the time. Sooner or later they'll threaten another settlement and force us to either let them sack it or leave the walls and try to help. Forging an alliance with someone we're on good terms with already seems like a sensible idea.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
[X] [Prisoners] Temporary labour/prisoner exchange
[X] [Prisoners] Permanent labour
[X] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
Guys? Let us not take the 'kill these guys' option again. After all, last time it started this whole raiding business. Also remember that there's a bunch of other Hundred Band folks and one of the best ways to cause them to ally up (if temporarily) and try to destroy us is to kill off the prisoners.
It changes the discussion from 'That guy brought it on himself' to 'That guy did bring it on himself... But did you hear what they did to their captives? It's not like we can be sure that they'll not raid us without cause either... Which means if they do raid us, they'll just kill everyone. I might hate you guys, but better to make sure there's no other threats around that aren't kin before we get back to bashing each others' heads in, yeah?
After all, if we make ourselves constantly appear to be bloodthirsty, then the other tribes will go out of their way to put us down as a major (and unpredictable) threat.
[X] [Prisoners] Permanent labour
[X] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
Guys? Let us not take the 'kill these guys' option again. After all, last time it started this whole raiding business. Also remember that there's a bunch of other Hundred Band folks and one of the best ways to cause them to ally up (if temporarily) and try to destroy us is to kill off the prisoners.
It changes the discussion from 'That guy brought it on himself' to 'That guy did bring it on himself... But did you hear what they did to their captives? It's not like we can be sure that they'll not raid us without cause either... Which means if they do raid us, they'll just kill everyone. I might hate you guys, but better to make sure there's no other threats around that aren't kin before we get back to bashing each others' heads in, yeah?
After all, if we make ourselves constantly appear to be bloodthirsty, then the other tribes will go out of their way to put us down as a major (and unpredictable) threat.
zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
[X] [Prisoners] Permanent labour
[X] [Tool] Deal with troublemakers (+1 Stab)
Normally, I'd be all for showing mercy. But these asshats have attacked us twice already, so let's just slit their throats and be done with it.
Otherwise, just get rid of them ASAP. I don't like the idea of having a slave underclass being permanently established in our settlements.
Wait, shit. That could lead to tech stealing. Permanent slave caste ho, I guess.
And looking at our civilization status it seems that we're already at -2 Stability. Better try to bring it up now before more troubles show up.
[X] [Prisoners] Permanent labour
[X] [Tool] Deal with troublemakers (+1 Stab)
Normally, I'd be all for showing mercy. But these asshats have attacked us twice already, so let's just slit their throats and be done with it.
Wait, shit. That could lead to tech stealing. Permanent slave caste ho, I guess.
And looking at our civilization status it seems that we're already at -2 Stability. Better try to bring it up now before more troubles show up.
Last edited:
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
The problem with that is that killing off all the prisoners is most likely the 'best' option for causing them to attack us a third time. After all, it's basically the thing to do to create a permanent blood feud between us and whoever the escaping Big Man goes to talk to.
Legion0047
Retired Shadowrunner.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- God Emperor
[X] [Prisoners] Temporary labour/prisoner exchange
[X] [Tool] Make being attacked difficult (Improve Palisade)
[X] [Tool] Make being attacked difficult (Improve Palisade)
- Location
- nz
[X] [Prisoners] Temporary labour/prisoner exchange
[X] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
- Location
- Russia
- Pronouns
- He
For the Prisoner vote, one option we cannot really take is releasing them, because it goes right against our lesson "letting an enemy recover is bad". On the one hand, Labour risks our secrets getting stolen (just like the last time, probably higher on prisoner exchange because they can return safely).
On the other hand, the Debtors gave us farming. If the prisoners end up getting a similar position, we can try to steal their secrets (shields and such) in turn. But that probably requires Permanent Labour, which pushes toward slavery and/or a caste society with us fighting and Debtors and others working for us.
On the other hand, the Debtors gave us farming. If the prisoners end up getting a similar position, we can try to steal their secrets (shields and such) in turn. But that probably requires Permanent Labour, which pushes toward slavery and/or a caste society with us fighting and Debtors and others working for us.
Last edited:
zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
*Dreams of becoming Not!Sparta intensifies*
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Why would you want to imitate Sparta? They spent centuries living in fear of a slave revolt, to the point that they could never really effectively project their power beyond the Peloponnese, and their absurd militarism slowly strangled the vitality from their society until they were reduced to tourist attractions for wealthy Romans.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
You also forgot to mention (maybe because I'd already mentioned it) that killing off the prisoners is likely to either create a blood feud, and thus constant raiding, with the Hundred Bands (Or at least, significantly raises the chances of it happening) and/or create a debilitating belief that causes us to just kill everyone when we raid and don't care about taking captives. They either run off and escape or die, no middle ground.
Not going to say that the belief possibility is particularly likely mind you, but it's something we really need to keep in mind that we're rather militant already, and the more bloodthirsty we appear, the more bloodthirsty our image with the other tribes, and our beliefs, become.
And it's actually much more likely than in one of the other similar quests as this one is heavily narrative driven, rather than number-based.
- Location
- Classified
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
[X] [Tool] Make being attacked difficult (Improve Palisade)
Fuck these assholes in particular, and fuck all the other assholes out there.
This whole thing started because of Hundred Band workers stealing our stuff, and they murdered our people when they were captives. It's only right to give it back. As for a potential blood feud, we're already in one. I'm not afraid of violence, if they want to keep this going, I'm ready to go.
As for the palisade, we keep getting fucked over because our walls are shit for fighting on, and we know the Peace Seekers are doing weird shit. Can we not be left sitting around while the enemy freely hacks through our walls a third time?
[X] [Tool] Make being attacked difficult (Improve Palisade)
Fuck these assholes in particular, and fuck all the other assholes out there.
This whole thing started because of Hundred Band workers stealing our stuff, and they murdered our people when they were captives. It's only right to give it back. As for a potential blood feud, we're already in one. I'm not afraid of violence, if they want to keep this going, I'm ready to go.
As for the palisade, we keep getting fucked over because our walls are shit for fighting on, and we know the Peace Seekers are doing weird shit. Can we not be left sitting around while the enemy freely hacks through our walls a third time?
Last edited:
- Location
- Canada
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
[X] [Tool] Make being attacked difficult (Improve Palisade)
I think we might run on the three strike rule here, where you have to do something three times to piss off a faction before your all out of chances and your now in a blood feud. Lets look back and see if we had already wasted all our chances.
(Just going off half remembered chapters awhile back.)
First, the bands tried to steal from us, or at least try to. We killed them. That's one strike. Against us and our killing them has squared any slight from the bands. Not so for the Bands as they now loathe us.
Second they raided us, failed, retreated. Plenty people died. We didn't pursue them for the effort to recover, as well as feel they got whatever revenge or we manage to repel them and so are all square again we didn't think they would attack us again. They did we are now one strike against them again, however our repelling of their attack and killing some of their men has also caused another strike for them, they now hate us, and we loathe them.
Third we let them recover and they took full advantage of this and raided us again, we now hate them so we chase after them, thinking they won with their loot, so feeling regret on letting them recover and decide to get our people back, we were winning and they in a effort tried to flee by using hostages, that's another strike and we are now in blood feud now and our sacking their camp after they retreated to their territory has now put them into blood feud.
I feel its already to late and we should double down on befriending other tribes get a coalition defense pack going and prevent any saboteur among the captives by getting rid of them, after getting any useful information from them.
Although I feel I should point out that any tribe may blame us for the bands attacking the region as I feel they may just attack any tribe in the area this could lead to negative impacts to our relations with them.
[X] [Tool] Make being attacked difficult (Improve Palisade)
I think we might run on the three strike rule here, where you have to do something three times to piss off a faction before your all out of chances and your now in a blood feud. Lets look back and see if we had already wasted all our chances.
(Just going off half remembered chapters awhile back.)
First, the bands tried to steal from us, or at least try to. We killed them. That's one strike. Against us and our killing them has squared any slight from the bands. Not so for the Bands as they now loathe us.
Second they raided us, failed, retreated. Plenty people died. We didn't pursue them for the effort to recover, as well as feel they got whatever revenge or we manage to repel them and so are all square again we didn't think they would attack us again. They did we are now one strike against them again, however our repelling of their attack and killing some of their men has also caused another strike for them, they now hate us, and we loathe them.
Third we let them recover and they took full advantage of this and raided us again, we now hate them so we chase after them, thinking they won with their loot, so feeling regret on letting them recover and decide to get our people back, we were winning and they in a effort tried to flee by using hostages, that's another strike and we are now in blood feud now and our sacking their camp after they retreated to their territory has now put them into blood feud.
I feel its already to late and we should double down on befriending other tribes get a coalition defense pack going and prevent any saboteur among the captives by getting rid of them, after getting any useful information from them.
Although I feel I should point out that any tribe may blame us for the bands attacking the region as I feel they may just attack any tribe in the area this could lead to negative impacts to our relations with them.
Last edited:
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Ah, sweet, sweet revenge.
[X] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
I'd have kept them around for the secrets to their tech, but we've bought Hundred Band Prisoners before and that never happened so I don't want anything to do with them. That, and they're a destabilizing force when we already have -2 Stability. We're gonna need to fix that first.
[X] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
I'd have kept them around for the secrets to their tech, but we've bought Hundred Band Prisoners before and that never happened so I don't want anything to do with them. That, and they're a destabilizing force when we already have -2 Stability. We're gonna need to fix that first.
- Location
- USA
Here is my reasoning for the votes that I made.
For part of the reason why I chose palisade as the tool of choice, one of the main reasons was the words of the QM himself earlier:
Considering how we might be embroiled in a war soon, and with retaliation likely on the horizon now that the Hundred Band's Big Man survived, I think we should try to gain the Stone-Skinned Value at this juncture while we still can. As this recent excerpt has just shown us, palisades make a very big difference in how defensible settlements are. With our current knowledge of settlements alongside our new brick technology, we should be able to construct an improved palisade that should stymie any of their future efforts to retaliate. An improved palisade is not going to be the end all be all solution to this war with the hundred bands. However, it should serve as a good enough stop gap, a speed bump in essence, that will allow us to pursue other avenues in the mean time.
If we can create a palisade that is not only made of brick, but also one that we can have for our archers to stand on we should be able to effectively use our ranged advantage in these settlement battles to gain a decisive advantage. Consider the fact that with the our recent discovery of rice and our dependence on the river system we will likely be more oriented on settlements from now on. Being able to fight better defensively and drain the enemy's raids against us will serve as a key advantage for us. The fact that this choice could possibly give us the chance to unlock defensive megaprojects and a wonder makes it even more enticing to me.
However the greatest advantage it gives to us, is that it allows us more time to work on other options. If we use this lesson to improve our defenses and build an improved palisade we will also gain the ability to work on other avenues of approach while we are safer. For instance, while I agree that we should in principle coalition build, I am not so sure we will be able to successfully do so, enough to convince another tribe to join our coalition, in a timely enough manner. We are asking another tribe who we've just met only a little while ago to fight against a large and powerful opponent, who likely has no vendetta against them, that is a hard bargain for any friend or ally ,let alone one we've just met. We don't want this to turn into another Peace Seeker's moment. As was said before, raiding is not an energy positive activity, and to ask another tribe to commit their warriors and hunters to our fight will likely be a hard struggle. Seeing as we don't have any hero units at the moment that could help us with this task at the moment, that means that it will take time for us to warm up relations enough to gain the trust and friendship of the Arrow Lake Tribe, enough for them to fight with us. To do so however, we will need better defenses than before. In our retaliation we could not kill all of the raiders from the last successful raid on the Fingers, with that Big Man still around they will likely know how to circumvent our defenses again if we do not improve them. In the short term by improving our palisade we will be able to weather a potential retaliatory strike by the Hundred Bands once again, enough so that reinforcements could mop them up, and then use that time gained to pursue other options. That is why I think we should build the palisade.
As for using the prisoners as temporary labor and as a potential avenue for exchange, I think that this war with the Hundred Bands is going to be a long one. If we face their united efforts then they will likely be able to use their larger population to win through attrition. In raiding warfare such as this, it is our most skilled hunters and warriors who will benefit us the most. By trading away non-combatants in exchange for our captured hunters will be able to keep a measure of our strength in order to use it again in the future. Furthermore if we make this into a war of annihilation then that is what we are going to get in the future. Next time there may not be any hostages to save.
Finally, on a more pragmatic note I think not killing the prisoners would be a more honorable decision which would give us more chances to gain another trait or value that will upgrade our civilization in that purview.
That's just my two cents on this vote.
For part of the reason why I chose palisade as the tool of choice, one of the main reasons was the words of the QM himself earlier:
Considering how we might be embroiled in a war soon, and with retaliation likely on the horizon now that the Hundred Band's Big Man survived, I think we should try to gain the Stone-Skinned Value at this juncture while we still can. As this recent excerpt has just shown us, palisades make a very big difference in how defensible settlements are. With our current knowledge of settlements alongside our new brick technology, we should be able to construct an improved palisade that should stymie any of their future efforts to retaliate. An improved palisade is not going to be the end all be all solution to this war with the hundred bands. However, it should serve as a good enough stop gap, a speed bump in essence, that will allow us to pursue other avenues in the mean time.
If we can create a palisade that is not only made of brick, but also one that we can have for our archers to stand on we should be able to effectively use our ranged advantage in these settlement battles to gain a decisive advantage. Consider the fact that with the our recent discovery of rice and our dependence on the river system we will likely be more oriented on settlements from now on. Being able to fight better defensively and drain the enemy's raids against us will serve as a key advantage for us. The fact that this choice could possibly give us the chance to unlock defensive megaprojects and a wonder makes it even more enticing to me.
However the greatest advantage it gives to us, is that it allows us more time to work on other options. If we use this lesson to improve our defenses and build an improved palisade we will also gain the ability to work on other avenues of approach while we are safer. For instance, while I agree that we should in principle coalition build, I am not so sure we will be able to successfully do so, enough to convince another tribe to join our coalition, in a timely enough manner. We are asking another tribe who we've just met only a little while ago to fight against a large and powerful opponent, who likely has no vendetta against them, that is a hard bargain for any friend or ally ,let alone one we've just met. We don't want this to turn into another Peace Seeker's moment. As was said before, raiding is not an energy positive activity, and to ask another tribe to commit their warriors and hunters to our fight will likely be a hard struggle. Seeing as we don't have any hero units at the moment that could help us with this task at the moment, that means that it will take time for us to warm up relations enough to gain the trust and friendship of the Arrow Lake Tribe, enough for them to fight with us. To do so however, we will need better defenses than before. In our retaliation we could not kill all of the raiders from the last successful raid on the Fingers, with that Big Man still around they will likely know how to circumvent our defenses again if we do not improve them. In the short term by improving our palisade we will be able to weather a potential retaliatory strike by the Hundred Bands once again, enough so that reinforcements could mop them up, and then use that time gained to pursue other options. That is why I think we should build the palisade.
As for using the prisoners as temporary labor and as a potential avenue for exchange, I think that this war with the Hundred Bands is going to be a long one. If we face their united efforts then they will likely be able to use their larger population to win through attrition. In raiding warfare such as this, it is our most skilled hunters and warriors who will benefit us the most. By trading away non-combatants in exchange for our captured hunters will be able to keep a measure of our strength in order to use it again in the future. Furthermore if we make this into a war of annihilation then that is what we are going to get in the future. Next time there may not be any hostages to save.
Finally, on a more pragmatic note I think not killing the prisoners would be a more honorable decision which would give us more chances to gain another trait or value that will upgrade our civilization in that purview.
That's just my two cents on this vote.
At first glance, making them permanent prisoners seemed like a good idea.
But then I consider that yeah, it's probably more trouble than it's worth at this point.
Plus, you've got the fact that this really is all the Hundred Band's fault. Consider the sequence of events that lead us here:
Every single part of this war between The People and the Hundred Bands can be pointed right at the Hundred Bands as being their fault.
Trying to take prisoners, trying to make slaves of their captured kin, none of it is worth it. They need to go away and never show their faces again, and they need to know that to do otherwise is to meet certain death.
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
[X] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
It's the only way the Hundred Bands will learn, if they're even capable of it.
But then I consider that yeah, it's probably more trouble than it's worth at this point.
Plus, you've got the fact that this really is all the Hundred Band's fault. Consider the sequence of events that lead us here:
- First they show up and basically force us to buy slaves from them if we don't want innocent people getting murdered out of conveneince.
- Then, they take advantage of that arrangement to try to spy on us and steal our stuff.
- When they get caught, they have the nerve to throw a hissy fit that we executed their spies.
- When we have the nerve to fight back and don't bother to finish the job, they then attack us again, wrecking our stuff and taking our people prisoner.
- Then, on top of that, they try to execute our people to keep us from exacting righteous vengeance.
Every single part of this war between The People and the Hundred Bands can be pointed right at the Hundred Bands as being their fault.
Trying to take prisoners, trying to make slaves of their captured kin, none of it is worth it. They need to go away and never show their faces again, and they need to know that to do otherwise is to meet certain death.
[X] [Prisoners] Kill them
[X] [Tool] Building Coalitions (Trade: Arrow Lake)
It's the only way the Hundred Bands will learn, if they're even capable of it.