Just a potential name for if we ever make a class of tanks or mobile artillery the hamilton class.
As one of the things alexander hamilton was famous for was founding the american coast guard and had the whole was a member of the american revolutionary army, so has the idealogical sting against victoria of the few standing against the many for fredom and rights.

He also could be a good choice to stick it to the vickies as someone involved with ratifying the us constitution which seems like something they don't like.
 
Canon Omake: Meanwhile In Florida
Meanwhile in Florida

St. Petersburg, Florida
8 May, 2075

Two young men lounge on a battered blanket, toes firmly dug into sand. Water laps at the earth a few feet away from them, glittering in the dusk light. A seagull cries somewhere nearby, echoed by a flock a little further down the beach. The two pass a cigarette back and forth, grey curling up from the tip and trailing away into the western breeze. Salt lays heavy in the air, definite but almost unnoticeable; they've never known anything else.

The sound of footsteps approaches, one determined step after another. Neither one bothers to open their eyes. They know that tread.

A young woman plops herself down in-between them, her dark skin just a shade off theirs. She wriggles in, wielding her elbows like the precision weapons they are, unafraid to nip here and there when she isn't obeyed fast enough. The other two roll their eyes but let her push them to the edges of the blanket, sides pressed against hers.

"Did you hear about that mess up north?"

She's face-down, words muffled by the blanket. Both of them hear her. Neither one replies.

The girl turns her head just enough to expose one glaring eye. When that doesn't get the results she wants, she snatches a hand out snake-quick, plucking the cigarette out of a hand just as it's about to be passed. She sucks it right down to the end, then flicks what's left out towards the seagull.

Overlapping protests don't stop her from burrowing back into the blanket smugly, letting loose the resulting smoke in a thick grey cloud. "I said, did you hear about that mess up north?"

The boy on her right, Matteo, shrugs. "Something about Chicago being crazy, again."

Thomas lays back, eyes closed once more now that the cigarette is gone. "Don't they have pizza to argue over?"

Yolanda huffs warningly, getting her elbows back in striking distance of their kidneys. "They declared war on the Vics."

That gets a considering silence. "Woah," Matteo declares.

"Think they'll make it?" Thomas' eyes flick open, scanning restlessly over the stars as the wink into place. He wasn't born yet when his mother made the trip from Puerto Rico over to Miami, from Miami to St. Pete. But he knows the stories she won't talk to him about, fit himself under furniture late at night to listen to her talk to his grandmother about it. He knows what the Vics did to people like him.

"Nah," Matteo says. He's St. Pete back through four generations. He grew up on stories about how hard Tampa Bay crashed in the first days of the Collapse, how the tourist economy trickled into nothing and everyone went hungry. His family may have never seen a Vic in the flesh, but they know as well as anyone how far their destruction reached.

The three of them lay there while the sun paints reds and oranges over their clothes, reflects jewel tones onto the waters at their feet. Yolanda curls into them both, a chilly breeze ruffling her hair. No one knows where her family came from. Her mom died in childbirth in a house where no one spoke her native tongue, and the doctor raised Yolanda as her own. Another history lost to the Vics.

"I hope they do," she says, just loud enough for them to hear. "I hope they kill every single Vic dead."

"Yeah," Thomas says, "I do too."

Matteo doesn't say anything out loud, but he wraps an ankle around Yolanda's, and lets them have their prayer.
 
Wonder what it'll take to rebuild our Air Force after the thrashing it got. I would like to have at least some air cover when we start deploying... Reconnaissance Aircraft.

Probably time, a few action points and imported parts. Granted we were expecting to get thrashed in the air and what we bought with our air power in terms of smashing Vick supply lines was worth it but it's going to definitely limit our ability to fight outside of ground-based AAA support.

That said there's plenty of examples that we can do that effectively, provided we keep playing it safe and make the Vicks come to us which they have to.
 
Wonder what it'll take to rebuild our Air Force after the thrashing it got. I would like to have at least some air cover when we start deploying... Reconnaissance Aircraft.
Well, once sister Cali sends their "fuck you" to Victoria I see no reason why we couldn't buy some of their F-16s. Maybe even the schematics if we can upgrade our industrial/tech base enough to be able to build them.

It's in their interest too after all. They want and NEED all the help they can get
 
Another idea for consideration: Submersibles. In theory, capable of sinking Victorian shipping without fear of airborn retaliation, seeing as they can attack the target and then nose down. Now I'm no expert on submarines, but my awareness of this very fact leads me to the assumption that there are numerous problems with this theory, beyond the obvious ones like "it would have to be a pretty small sub to get through the rivers, maybe" and "how much ammo would it be able to carry for whatever weapon is ends up using? Would it be able to sink a meaningful number of ships before having to sail back to resupply?"
 
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Perhaps something akin to these?
Ghadir-class submarine - Wikipedia

Optimized for use in the littorals of the Persian Gulf, they are only 95ft long, and are capable of the shallow-water operations that would characterize warfare on the Great Lakes. Additionally, they were able to be indigenously produced by Iran in the early 2000s, which may put them within our technological reach.
 
Perhaps something akin to these?
Ghadir-class submarine - Wikipedia

Optimized for use in the littorals of the Persian Gulf, they are only 95ft long, and are capable of the shallow-water operations that would characterize warfare on the Great Lakes. Additionally, they were able to be indigenously produced by Iran in the early 2000s, which may put them within our technological reach.
Possibly. Though, if they lack on-board food and accommodations, this would limit them to instances where we already know more or less where the enemy is.

On the other hand, can you imagine how salty the Vicks would be if we mined Buffalo harbor before they launched their next campaign?
 
Unfortunately, Lake Erie happens to be the shallowest of the Great Lakes by a fairly significant margin. Worse, it actually gets shallower the further west you go, to the point that any submarine would probably have to surface to get back to Detroit.

I think it's plausible that you could develop a submarine capable of operating the other Great Lakes, since they're one of the few lakes deep enough to make it work. I don't think it's practical, to be honest, but I think someone could probably develop a functioning sub. Still, Lake Erie is where we'll be fighting for the foreseeable future, and I just don't think submarine warfare is workable in 10-20 meters of water.
 
Well, the thread seems to have stalled again, so have a collection of Omake prompts. I am not the QM so I can't promise any particular reward, beyond me giving a good rating.
  • "President Putin's final orders still stand. My grandfather followed them, my father followed them, I follow them. The Tsar's dogs draw closer by the day. Let them come."
  • An in-universe radio show broadcast from Chicago, about the fictitious Agent Blackwing and their efforts to defend the Midwest from Victoria's vile ambitions.
  • More Old World Soldiers fighting as Bandits/Mercenaries, like Burns used to. They didn't come because they don't believe. Hope can be frightening, if one is used to disappointment.
  • Varyingly ridiculous rumors about the US Navy in general and USS Enterprise, CVN-80 in particular surviving the fall. Grey Ghost Stories, if you will. Of course, much like the things they say about Albert Plum and his crows, few will admit to believing these tales...
  • Australia dusting off plans from WW2 now that Japan's gone full fascist again. Problem is, last time they only had to worry about defending themselves, now they also have the rest of the PACS to worry about.
  • The shootout between the Chicago Nuke-Hunt team and their Victorian counterparts, as detailed here.
  • EDIT: MEANWHILE, ON THE LAKE ERIE ISLANDS...
 
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I think it's plausible that you could develop a submarine capable of operating the other Great Lakes, since they're one of the few lakes deep enough to make it work. I don't think it's practical, to be honest, but I think someone could probably develop a functioning sub. Still, Lake Erie is where we'll be fighting for the foreseeable future, and I just don't think submarine warfare is workable in 10-20 meters of water.
Considering the Vics understanding of sonar is basically non-existent, a submarine would have quite a lot of advantages in operating on the lakes. And in terms of a sub-design that would work, there is always the Japanese late ww2 midget subs. Something like a Kairyū-class submarine - Wikipedia would be perfect for operating in the lakes as it only has a 1.2-meter draft and a tiny crew while using conventional fuels and having a decent range. Plus, it only takes about 20 tons of steel to produce, so with our economy, we can make em in mass.
 
Considering the Vics understanding of sonar is basically non-existent, a submarine would have quite a lot of advantages in operating on the lakes. And in terms of a sub-design that would work, there is always the Japanese late ww2 midget subs. Something like a Kairyū-class submarine - Wikipedia would be perfect for operating in the lakes as it only has a 1.2-meter draft and a tiny crew while using conventional fuels and having a decent range. Plus, it only takes about 20 tons of steel to produce, so with our economy, we can make em in mass.
Main problem I could see would be fuel. But if we could solve that, we might be able to pull it off. The submarine you're using as an example had a range of 450 nautical miles (traveling on the surface), and Lake Erie is only 250-ish miles long from tip to tip.
 
It's kinda small, though.
And we can do with an autocannon.

Since we probably don't have (reliable) torpedoes in stock - after all, before Detroit campaign our navy was mostly policing rivers, and in the rare encounters where it met surface combatants of any kind guns were sufficient.
 
Well, the thread seems to have stalled again, so have a collection of Omake prompts. I am not the QM so I can't promise any particular reward, beyond me giving a good rating.
  • Varyingly ridiculous rumors about the US Navy in general and USS Enterprise, CVN-80 in particular surviving the fall. Grey Ghost Stories, if you will. Of course, much like the things they say about Albert Plum and his crows, few will admit to believing these tales...

Listen, I'm working on this one, it's just more-so drafting it out and having to do other stuff before getting to that one. :V
 
Considering the Vics understanding of sonar is basically non-existent, a submarine would have quite a lot of advantages in operating on the lakes. And in terms of a sub-design that would work, there is always the Japanese late ww2 midget subs. Something like a Kairyū-class submarine - Wikipedia would be perfect for operating in the lakes as it only has a 1.2-meter draft and a tiny crew while using conventional fuels and having a decent range. Plus, it only takes about 20 tons of steel to produce, so with our economy, we can make em in mass.
The Victorians have radar, so I'm almost certain they also have sonar.

And if the Victorians do have sonar, there's not much reason for subs, since their ability to sneak past undetected is compromised. Without the ability to dive and evade depth charges (Lake Erie's far too shallow for that), subs simply become slower, more expensive boats. They're much less vulnerable to the Victorian air force, of course, but they also can't shoot back at it.

I mean, I kinda want submarines to work, because submarines are cool, but...
 
It's kinda small, though.
And we can do with an autocannon.

Since we probably don't have (reliable) torpedoes in stock - after all, before Detroit campaign our navy was mostly policing rivers, and in the rare encounters where it met surface combatants of any kind guns were sufficient.
The point to Submarines, be they tiny lake subs or massive open-ocean boomers, is stealth. Anything that might use an autocannon would be venerable to airborne retaliation, and considering our air force went from 50 combat worthy airframes to FOUR in that last engagement, I for one appear to have come down with a case of aviophobia.

EDIT: @Horologer , the vicks have Bote Technicals. Any sonar rigs they might have, I guarantee you they are either ground based, or so shitty that they literally won't be able to tell the difference between a sub and a school of fish.
 
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Or we could be using surface ships and land batteries equipped with primitive (for the present day) anti-ship missiles that would be hard to deal with even if the Victorians pulled out Russotech out of their asses after running into it. Said capability would still retain relevance both as the basis of working out doctrine and for training rather than having to be ditched as fast as possible when we have to confront opponents who are not the Victorians or if the Victorians are gifted technology for use because said capability was gutting them.

Plus the design and doctrine choices necessary for successful submarines makes it harder for a successful submersible raider (or group of raiders) to destroy entire convoys down to the last ship. The larger ammo pools of gun weapons and the longer range of missiles makes it easier for surface raiders to do said task.

The point to Submarines, be they tiny lake subs or massive open-ocean boomers, is stealth. Anything that might use an autocannon would be venerable to airborne retaliation, and considering our air force went from 50 combat worthy airframes to FOUR in that last engagement, I for one appear to have come down with a case of aviophobia.

Said stealth is inherently reliant on maintaining a technological edge, which is a foolhardy proposition considering their superpower master.
 
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The Victorians have radar, so I'm almost certain they also have sonar.

And if the Victorians do have sonar, there's not much reason for subs, since their ability to sneak past undetected is compromised. Without the ability to dive and evade depth charges (Lake Erie's far too shallow for that), subs simply become slower, more expensive boats. They're much less vulnerable to the Victorian air force, of course, but they also can't shoot back at it.

I mean, I kinda want submarines to work, because submarines are cool, but...

Sonar requires navy capable of utilizing sonar, and with how negligent Victorians are of utilizing Navy, they probably don't have specialists and equipment in place.
They could get that stuff, but it would take time and money, and draw on their limited pool of smart enough people to build and crew that, when they would also have airforce to reform and a lot of other things to do.

The point to Submarines, be they tiny lake subs or massive open-ocean boomers, is stealth. Anything that might use an autocannon would be venerable to airborne retaliation, and considering our air force went from 50 combat worthy airframes to FOUR in that last engagement, I for one appear to have come down with a case of aviophobia.

What stops you from being in submerged position when you're not using autocannon to fuck shit up?
It's not like there would be a flight of Victorian F-16s over every freighter.

And if there is, the sub had already done their job, because flight hours on jets are not cheap.
 
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An argument against spending resources on subs is that there is nothing worth torpedoing. The Vic navy was a joke before we sank it the first time. Their 'merchant' navy is barely better.

At this point and likely for years to come our navy will be used either for shore bombardment or for protecting transports against air attack. Subs are decidedly under-equipped for either task.
 
Honestly, I reckon if we win this battle, one of two things will happen. Either Russia will turn its eyes back to America because Victoria got defeated in a fight, or Russia won't pay attention to Victoria's defeat, and there will be a lull in fighting as Victoria gets their forces reorganized or better trained or whatever and we'll be sorting out our internal problems and our neighbors.
 
Honestly, I reckon if we win this battle, one of two things will happen. Either Russia will turn its eyes back to America because Victoria got defeated in a fight, or Russia won't pay attention to Victoria's defeat, and there will be a lull in fighting as Victoria gets their forces reorganized or better trained or whatever and we'll be sorting out our internal problems and our neighbors.
Would even Victoria acknowledge its own defeat?
 
An argument against spending resources on subs is that there is nothing worth torpedoing. The Vic navy was a joke before we sank it the first time. Their 'merchant' navy is barely better.

At this point and likely for years to come our navy will be used either for shore bombardment or for protecting transports against air attack. Subs are decidedly under-equipped for either task.
What about those big invasion transports? We just had to YOLO our entire friggen air force just to give our conventional assets a chance at taking them out, with a sub we wouldn't have to do that.
 
Non-Canon Omake: The Cultural Marxist League of Victoria
So I got kinda bored at work the other day and thought I'd try my hand at an Omake worldbuilding...thing. I tried to make it sort of in the style of an old BBC documentary.

Victorian Dissident: The Cultural Marxist League of Victoria (CML-VIC)
"Long Live Marx, Long live Lennon!"
- Anonymous CML-VIC member
Nighttime in Augusta. A man runs through rain-slick streets, glancing about nervously and tucking himself deeper into his trenchcoat. He ducks into an alleyway, looks around, and then knocks. The first three fast, then two more after a pause. The door opens, and the man skulks in. This man has just entered the shadowy world of the Victorian Dissidents.
To an outside observer, the Retroculture regime in Augusta may seem ironclad. Government footage always shows happy farmers going about their day, and the leadership's referenda are inevitably approved by a vast majority of the population.
Dig in the right places, however, and one might find a whole smattering of dissenting groups, gathering in sheds and backrooms. Always just one raid away from a painful death, theirs is a world of paranoia and secrecy. Where even a single tip-off to the Christian Marine Corps can put whole families in danger of disappearing without a trace. Yet despite the risk they still gather in a myriad of small movements. They range from simple bands of friends to organised resistance cells with perhaps thousands of members. And one of the stranger of these is a loose group known as the
Cultural Marxist League of Victoria.

Cultural Marxism is a strange and concept. It is the great nemesis in Victoria's Retroculture ideology. And yet it is also loose, formless, and seemingly whatever the Victorian state wishes it to be. It is everywhere and yet nowhere. The monster under Victoria's bed.
In short, a very attractive idea for rebellious youths who wanted to distance themselves from everything Victorian.
With access to actual dissident literature limited by constant government surveillance, some young students instead opted to cobble together their own ideology from a mixture of repurposed government propaganda, youth counterculture and whatever scraps of actual Marxist literature they managed to get off the black market.
Just like the Victorian government, the CML sees Cultural Marxism as an attempt by shadowy academics to destroy the existing social order. But the CML takes this idea and turns it on its head. They believe that the Cultural-Marxist world before Victoria was the real culture of America. A culture that spread the idea of equality across the globe until it was destroyed by insidious Victorian reactionaries who destroyed the world in the process. They hope that by spreading counterculture and "proper Culturally-Marxist ideas" they can subvert Victoria from within and forge a better society.

The CML is a fringe group even among the small collection of dissidents that we know of. They are largely non-violent, being mostly interested in trying to discover "Proper Culturally-Marxist" fields of academia such as Women's Studies. This has led to other Dissident groups viewing themt perhaps rather unfairly, as squabbling teenagers playing at dissent. Even so, it would be a mistake to mistake this for weakness. To oppose the regime in Victoria, always just one raid away from a painful end, takes plenty of bravery and a willingness to get one's hands dirty.

The future of these groups is never secure. Yet one thing's for sure: For as long as the regime in Augusta remains, there will always be those men and women who wish to join the ranks of...the
Victorian Dissidents.
 
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Victorian Dissident: The Cultural Marxist League of Victoria (CML-VIC)
Nighttime in Augusta. A man runs through rain-slick streets, glancing about nervously and tucking himself deeper into his trenchcoat. He ducks into an alleyway, looks around, and then knocks. The first three fast, then two more after a pause. The door opens, and the man skulks in. This man has just entered the shadowy world of the Victorian Dissidents.
To an outside observer, the Retroculture regime in Augusta may seem ironclad. Government footage always shows happy farmers going about their day, and the leadership's referenda are inevitably approved by a vast majority of the population.
Dig in the right places, however, and one might find a whole smattering of dissenting groups, gathering in sheds and backrooms. Always just one raid away from a painful death, theirs is a world of paranoia and secrecy. Where even a single tip-off to the Christian Marine Corps can put whole families in danger of disappearing without a trace. Yet despite the risk they still gather in a myriad of small movements. They range from simple bands of friends to organised resistance cells with perhaps thousands of members. And one of the stranger of these is a loose group known as the
Cultural Marxist League of Victoria.

Cultural Marxism is a strange and concept. It is the great nemesis in Victoria's Retroculture ideology. And yet it is also loose, formless, and seemingly whatever the Victorian state wishes it to be. It is everywhere and yet nowhere. The monster under Victoria's bed.
In short, a very attractive idea for rebellious youths who wanted to distance themselves from everything Victorian.
With access to actual dissident literature limited by constant government surveillance, some young students instead opted to cobble together their own ideology from a mixture of repurposed government propaganda, youth counterculture and whatever scraps of actual Marxist literature they managed to get off the black market.
Just like the Victorian government, the CML sees Cultural Marxism as an attempt by shadowy academics to destroy the existing social order. But the CML takes this idea and turns it on its head. They believe that the Cultural-Marxist world before Victoria was the real culture of America. A culture that spread the idea of equality across the globe until it was destroyed by insidious Victorian reactionaries who destroyed the world in the process. They hope that by spreading counterculture and "proper Culturally-Marxist ideas" they can subvert Victoria from within and forge a better society.

The CML is a fringe group even among the small collection of dissidents that we know of. They are largely non-violent, being mostly interested in trying to discover "Proper Culturally-Marxist" fields of academia such as Women's Studies. This has led to other Diddident groups viewing themt perhsps rather unfairly, as squabbling teenagers playing at dissent. Even so, it would be a mistake to mistake this for weakness. To oppose the regime in Victoria, always just one raid away from a painful end, takes plenty of bravery and a willingness to get one's hands dirty.

The future of these groups is never secure. Yet one thing's for sure: For as long as the regime in Augusta remains, there will always be those men and women who wish to join the ranks of...the
Victorian Dissidents.

Your idea of the CML-VIC somewhat reminds of the DSR faction in the New Order mod. In there, 1960s anti-Nazi German teenagers living in a victorious Nazi Germany decide to embrace communism which is one of the ideas that the Nazis is constantly railing against on the basis if the mind numbingly evil Nazis hate it, it must be good. Unfortunately, their ideas on communism are based on Nazi propaganda which they try to turn on its head, their mindsets are tainted by the Nazism they learned growing up, and they are too stubborn to listen to any actual socialist that could teach them. In the unlikely chance the DSR overthrows the Nazis, things go very poorly for everybody in Germany with their mass purges of the mostly Nazified German population and severe mismanagement of Germany by incompletely educated students. Here, the CML is similar but currently non-violent. It is hard to say if the CML could eventually help the resistance or merely provide actual self-proclaimed "cultural Marxists" for Victoria to direct the population's hate against or accidentally create a new nightmare if they somehow overthrow Victoria.
 
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Your idea of the CML-VIC somewhat reminds of the DSR faction in the New Order mod. In there, 1960s anti-Nazi German teenagers living in a victorious Nazi Germany decide to embrace communism which is one of the ideas that the Nazis is constantly railing against on the basis if the mind numbingly evil Nazis hate it, it must be good. Unfortunately, their ideas on communism are based on Nazi propaganda which they try to turn on its head, their mindsets are tainted by the Nazism they learned growing up, and they are too stubborn to listen to any actual socialist that could teach them. In the unlikely chance the DSR overthrows the Nazis, things go very poorly for everybody in Germany. Here, the CML is similar but currently non-violent. It is hard to say if the CML could eventually help the resistance or merely provide actual self-proclaimed "cultural Marxists" for Victoria to direct the population's hate against.
Fun fact: The DSR was actually a big part of how I got the idea for the CML in the first place. That and the 'Communists' in the old tanletop game Paranoia.
 
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