Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

You do remember this is PI right? I would honestly be kinda surprised if we didn't have teams working through the night with how fast we throw out revolutionary technology.
In practice, though, what that's more likely to mean is that a smaller number of highly talented high-wage, salaried researchers are working longer hours (such as Revy herself, who is probably working 60-80 hour weeks), rather than a bunch of low-wage workers covering a shift. Unlike plant security or the nuts-and-bolts side of manufacturing, R&D is generally a creative endeavor, and so isn't usually amenable to a fungible man-month model, despite the way this Quest handles RPs behind the scenes.

Thing is that design talent wouldn't be in our factories. Why would we have design engineers in factories when they all produce the same design. It would make more sense to have them somewhere else and send their designs to the factories. Honestly with the way they are described in quest I'd say most our design work is done in our labs by our research teams. Well those designs that Revy doesn't whip up in a late night caffeine fueled frenzy, which honestly probably accounts for most PI's designs.

No to my mind our factory workers are just that. The people who make our factory work.
As someone who has worked QA at a factory, and has a brother who has been working at a pharmaceutical plant for the last five years, I can say definitively that there's a lot of engineering and technical talent that needs to go into the "making our factory work" side, and if you skimp on that you end up paying dearly for it. Designs are all well and good, but you absolutely need talent on-site too, watching all those automated processes and intervening if and when something goes wrong. If all your engineering talent lives in another city and works 9-to-5, then when something breaks at midnight on a Saturday that talent's not going to do you any good at all for the next 8-12 hours, and in the meantime your factory is producing nothing while your engineer gets out of bed, travels to the work site, and spends precious hours re-familiarizing himself with a factory that he hasn't seen in months while everything's shut down and management is calling every ten minutes wondering when they're going to be no longer bleeding $5-10,000 an hour in lost productivity.

Gee, do you think I have personal experience here? :D

So I've been doing some googling and near as I can tell your average factory employees thirty people but that's because there are a ton of small factories skewing the numbers. If you look at the larger scale factories then the average comes out to around sixty employees per factory. If we assume future factories are scaled such that our Factory II is equivalent to a modern day factory and that number of employees scale linearly with production then we get 1 employee per 50 production.
Yeah, I'm not sure this works out, in particular because cost is not scaling linearly with production at the Factory I-II-III levels. To my mind this is an indication that at the lower levels we're seeing less efficient deployment of personnel and assets, which makes sense as economies of scale should apply at the low- to mid-ranges.

I'm sort of coming at it from a different angle, by setting average employee pay at 80k, as you did, but also setting the current personnel-to-equipment expenditure ratio to roughly 50%, and seeing if this gives us a reasonable number of employees per factory. That gives us:
  • Factory I: 2,000,000 * 50% / 20,000 = 50 employees: 6 production per employee per quarter
  • Factory II: 10,000,000 * 50% / 20,000 = 250 employees: 12 production per employee per quarter
  • Factory III: 50,000,000 * 50% / 20,000 = 1,250 employees: 24 production per employee per quarter
  • Space Factory I: Factory III * 10 =12,500 employees: 24 production per employee per quarter
  • Space Factory II: Space Factory I * 10 =125,000 employees: 24 production per employee per quarter
  • Space Factory III: Space Factory II * 10 =1,250,000 employees: 24 production per employee per quarter
A Legionary with our standard loadout is 3 production, so on average at a Factory I an employee builds a Legionary every 6 1/2 weeks, which sort of makes sense when you consider that you're talking about a factory small enough that you only have 12 people working a shift. At a Factory II that shrinks to 3.25 weeks, and at a Factory III that shrinks to 1.6 weeks.

Those kinds of numbers make sense to me as our factories are built around super-rapid prototyping and super-agile development, where the employees have to know how to build everything, test everything, and know everything about our products, as they can be called on to radically change what they're being told to build at the drop of a hat, maybe to something that didn't exist except as a twinkle in a researcher's eye as little as a day ago, and be told to implement it on machine tools that they need to purpose-build for the job to do things that were impossible an hour ago. A PI factory must be a Kefka-esque nightmare of 3D printers for all types of materials, industrial-grade Omnitools, biological grow tanks, rapid DNA sequencers, high-energy plasma torches and self-organizing nano-constructors, all paired in the QA side with mass and optical spectrometers, wear analysis equipment, optical and electron microscopes, eezo purity testers, even air sampling equipment. They literally have to be able to build anything; that's a maddeningly complex operation!

Edit:
This gives:
Factory I = 6 workers
Factory II = 60 workers
Factory III = 600 workers
Space Factory I = 6,000 workers
Space Factory II = 60,000 workers
Space Factory III = 600,000 workers
so with:
21x Factory III
3x Space Factory I
we should have 30,600 factory workers with another 60,000 going on our payroll next quarter.

Google tells me the average (American) factory worker receives 80k per year in pay and other benefits. Applied to the above worker numbers gives:
Factory I = 6 workers x 80,000cr = 480,000
Factory II = 60 workers x 80,000cr = 4,800,000
Factory III = 600 workers x 80,000cr = 48,000,000
Space Factory I = 6,000 workers x 80,000cr = 480,000,000
Space Factory II = 60,000 workers x 80,000cr = 4,800,000,000
Space Factory III = 600,000 workers x 80,000cr = 48,000,000,000
those figured as a percentage of the total upkeep are:
Factory I = 24%
Factory II = 48%
Factory III = 96%
Space Factory I = 96%
Space Factory II = 96%
Space Factory III = 96%
Just would like to point out that your percentages are off by 4x; upkeep is measured by quarter, not by year. So your numbers actually come out to:

Factory I: 6%
Factory II: 12%
Factory III - Space Factory III: 24%
 
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computers, robotics, and VI's would vastly lower the amount of workers needed as well as massively upping the production per employee in the factories
 
Hey guys
I was wondering why do we do not have a cure for the genophage on our tech tree?
Did people decide it was not needed?
Should we add it?
 
Every assassin and black ops operatives in known space will be gunning for us if we tried. So no.
I know that but I mean leaving it as an option
If we have the possibility for curing the quarians I do not see why we should limit our options

I mean the political and economic situation could change
And the Korgan could be useful when the reapers show up
 
Hey guys
I was wondering why do we do not have a cure for the genophage on our tech tree?
Did people decide it was not needed?
Should we add it?
Ultimately up to @Hoyr, but the Genophage is probably such a (relatively) simple problem compared to the others on the list that if we want to cure it the Advanced Xenobiology should probably be able to do so all by itself, not that a Krogan would ever need to get in a medical nanite tank for any other reason. Now, if we want to actually fix the problem, that is, reduce the Krogan birthrate to something manageable without giving Krogan mothers a 99.99% stillborn rate, that might take some extra doing.
 
Every assassin and black ops operatives in known space will be gunning for us if we tried. So no.
I remember a news report in Mass Effect where a group of krogans commissioned Binary Helix to investigate a possible cure for the genophage and the Council never tried to stop them, even before the study showed no results.
 
I remember a news report in Mass Effect where a group of krogans commissioned Binary Helix to investigate a possible cure for the genophage and the Council never tried to stop them, even before the study showed no results.
And I'm sure that situation would've done a complete 180 if they actually had a chance of curing the thing, not even counting the Spectre and STG operatives infiltrating BH to sabotage anything that approaches a cure.
 
I remember a news report in Mass Effect where a group of krogans commissioned Binary Helix to investigate a possible cure for the genophage and the Council never tried to stop them, even before the study showed no results.
Tell me, which (sabotaged by the Council) "news report" is going to reveal that the Council just sabotaged "Binary Helix"'s test results to prevent Krogans from "reviving "?
Just take a peek at ME3 meeting between Primarch, Chief Urdnot, and Dalatrass :

Turians are desperate and if Krogan leader is Wrex, than Turians respect him (strong, decisive, reasonable leader). They accept out of necessity (sorry Turians, facts are facts)

*mild-diskust in voice*Dalatras is no matter the leader, no matter the benefits, no matter that the Reapers are here in bulk (my estimations were/are about 50 billion Sovereign-class and at least half as many "Destroyer"-class, if we are conservative) she just wants Krogans to die. She is 100% racist and would rather die than see reason
 
Salarians are noted to be markedly short-sighted because of their short life spans and fast metabolism, which I assume causes them to have a slow perception of time.
 
Salarians are noted to be markedly short-sighted because of their short life spans and fast metabolism, which I assume causes them to have a slow perception of time.
That is one of the factors, yes, BUT, do remember, that most of the STG left to help the galaxy (Krogans included) going against Dalatrass' decision.
Although their biology creates their "short-sightedness" Salarians are intelligent and quick-thinking enough to analyse several things at once. Dalatrass concentrated on one fact and ignored other possibilities and the greater picture. (Personally I think her main motive was to kill all Krogans, but doing so would be bad PR to all Salarians.)
 
computers, robotics, and VI's would vastly lower the amount of workers needed as well as massively upping the production per employee in the factories
If you have the time to re-tool a factory, run test batches, and go through all the minutiae of setting up a full-time production line, then sure you can set it and forget it (mostly; still need to pack your QA department and keep experts on call). That's why H&K and CHA are able to stay in business, even though their margins are normally a fraction of ours; if they were using our factories to build and sell their products they'd go bankrupt in a year.

PI doesn't operate like that. We don't take 6-12 months to re-tool a factory to produce a massive run of a single product; we build a product that last quarter existed only in theory. To take a recent example, Researchers working in the Netherlands have developed an atomic-scale rewritable data-storage device capable of packing 500 terabits onto a single square inch. Here in the real world, that technology being demonstrated today is at minimum 10 years away from being put into production, if it ever does; at PI we're putting that brand new discovery into our products in less than three months. We're basically skipping all the interim engineering steps that you usually go through when going from one-off lab-scale products to mass production by packing well-trained engineers right into the production line, forcing them to adapt to entirely new branches of science while they're building new products for us, all in the most well-stocked engineer's wonderland that history has ever seen.

In many ways our factories are more bullshit than Revy's magical research fairy dust is, as well they should be, given the ultra premium that we're paying for them.
 
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Mind you, I always got the impression that nanofabs and omnigel could create virtually anything from scratch as long as you have a programmable blueprint.

Except for carbon nanotubes, they aren't part of the omnigel package.

They do build starships out of omnigel, if I remember rightly.
 
Mind you, I always got the impression that nanofabs and omnigel could create virtually anything from scratch as long as you have a programmable blueprint.

Except for carbon nanotubes, they aren't part of the omnigel package.

They do build starships out of omnigel, if I remember rightly.

Ehhh... Basically omnigel is a game abstraction for dealing with all the fiddly bits without having to carry around 20 kilos of tools and parts just to explain why an engineer can open a door, drop down a dozen combat drones over a single mission and fix whatever you need fixing without lengthy explanations for why and where he's carrying all that crap.
 
Mind you, I always got the impression that nanofabs and omnigel could create virtually anything from scratch as long as you have a programmable blueprint.

Except for carbon nanotubes, they aren't part of the omnigel package.

They do build starships out of omnigel, if I remember rightly.
I know this is different and the franchise is completely off,
But do you all are debating wether or not create

Programmable matter Glimmer? (I mean build/fix on spot anything is a boon, but...)

And does any of ME species have this: Chemically grown (created on a molecular level) devices/drones/mechs/etc. (Tech Insider Science video found on facebook)
 
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Ehhh... Basically omnigel is a game abstraction for dealing with all the fiddly bits without having to carry around 20 kilos of tools and parts just to explain why an engineer can open a door, drop down a dozen combat drones over a single mission and fix whatever you need fixing without lengthy explanations for why and where he's carrying all that crap.

Nope, in ME3 codex about the Breaker's Yard, it mentions that although nanofabrication and omnigel allows them to build a dreadnought within a year or so, pulling it apart is still a lengthly, time consuming process.

Omnigel is a gloop which contains nano scale formations of virtually all known elements, but it doesn't really do atomic scale engineering.

If it did, then they could make CNT pretty cheaply.

EDIT: Actually, it's from a combination of several codexes -

1 is the Korlus codex, a planet known for it's shipbreakers yard.

1 is the commissioned ship list for the SA, were their eighth dreadnought is commissioned in 2183 and declared fit for active duty in 2185

1 is a codex, about civilians who found a decommissioned Alliance frigate/cruiser and pooled their omnigel into the ships nanofab/autorepair function to make it spaceworthy again to escape the Reapers, after the ship was being dismantled over 5/10 years.

You also repair the Mako with nothing but omnigel as well.

So as long as your nanofab is large enough and outfitted with the right functions, you can pretty much build anything that doesn't require stuff like CNT or graphene.

Which is probably why omnitools cannot build themselves, now that I think about it.
 
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There aren't any hard numbers, at least that I found with a quick search, but apparently in the USA in 2015 there were 237,826 graduates with engineering degrees. If you assume half those actually become engineers and an average 20 job life then we get an estimate of 2,378,260 engineers in the USA which is 0.75% of the total population. If we then assume that percentage still holds true in ME then of the ~13 billion humans there should be roughly 97.5 million engineers.

...okay, those numbers seem pretty reasonable. I imagine that there's a greater focus on education what with VIs taking some of the more menial jobs (I imagine custodial work generally entails one guy making sure 20 drones are sweeping floors and emptying trashcans, for instance) but we also are told that Terra has a bit of 'cultural laziness' about them so I would imagine that there's not exactly a glut of people trying for the hardest possible sciences if they could get by with being another two-bit programmer or desk jockey somewhere (this is speculation on my part, obviously).

How might we deal with that cultural malaise that Terra has? I imagine the attack on Sol will shake things up a bit, but in addition to scaring up some more emigrants to the colonies, how about talking to our associates in Terra Firma about spreading a message of 'this happened because we let it happen' and 'Batarian aggression was allowed to prosper because good humans did nothing'? This could synergize well with

Mammoth tanks are terrible tanks. You'd have a much more effective tank by tearing out the dual cannons and replacing them with a single cannon that's at the edge of the turret's capacity to cope with.

And as noted, there's really not that much improvement to be had in ground combat through dedicated main battle tanks of any sort, the ME field of ground combat simply doesn't support it when orbital fire would be focused on tanks, and if you've got orbital supremacy you'd be hitting every target worth sending a tank at would be just as easily dealt with by some judicious orbital fire from a frigate.

The semi-obvious answer here, I would think, is to make a tank more than just a tank. A theater shield projector, made mobile, is going to protect your assets on the ground and be able to move around as the situation demands it acting as a Mobile Suppression Barge Helicarrier (where would we place that as a technological asset?). This is helpful for if you want to pressure a planet but cannot guarantee orbital superiority.

The first thing to come to mind was have a Planetary Siege Unit be a domestically-produced unit on high-value worlds (Earth, Elysium, Terra Nova, Watson, etc) both as an economic stimulus project (in case there's a slump in the local economy) and as a way to not only resist hostile landings but protect vital assets that cannot afford to be kept in one location. Furthermore, in addition to being more than 'just a tank', having a PSU be a regional headquarters, or primary supply depot, or being able to contest low-orbit space ships somehow (I would think either mass-drivers or surface-to-orbit torpedo launchers, personally) expands the ways that you could bill it to the SA military (ie, the other players).

The more I think about it though, a helicarrier doesn't seem like a bad idea as a means to command and coordinate ground troops while establishing supremacy with air wings worth of drones.

On the subject of warfare, specifically urban warfare - given that underground complexes are quite probable, and that simply destroying them might not be an option, and that cities would be full of skyscrapers most likely, lasers seem, well, not the best solution for infantry weaponry. What you need is microdrones and missiles - basically weapons that can affect enemies behind cover and corners, ideally get through walls, and ones that also compensate for near misses.

What about nano-drones? Toss a grenade, emits a mist of nano-bots with tiny arc-reactor powered lasers that erode shields and zap vulnerable sorts? I'm thinking less useful as target destroying and more useful as area denial (who wants to stay near bees that keep stinging you?) Runs across the slight complication of may be dubbed a WMD.

It'll get one shot off and if the enemy has any degree of orbital control it'll get blasted off the face of the planet.

Sounds like an argument for theater shields to me.

Hey guys
I was wondering why do we do not have a cure for the genophage on our tech tree?
Did people decide it was not needed?
Should we add it?

I want to see it on the tech tree, but the problem there is...we have two options; research it, in which case we open up every single can of worms you can imagine, or don't research it in which case why bother listing it? My own personal suspicion is that the STC has enough information on the genophage to make curing it fairly quick and painless...but that's never going to happen.

As someone who has worked QA at a factory, and has a brother who has been working at a pharmaceutical plant for the last five years, I can say definitively that there's a lot of engineering and technical talent that needs to go into the "making our factory work" side, and if you skimp on that you end up paying dearly for it. Designs are all well and good, but you absolutely need talent on-site too, watching all those automated processes and intervening if and when something goes wrong. If all your engineering talent lives in another city and works 9-to-5, then when something breaks at midnight on a Saturday that talent's not going to do you any good at all for the next 8-12 hours, and in the meantime your factory is producing nothing while your engineer gets out of bed, travels to the work site, and spends precious hours re-familiarizing himself with a factory that he hasn't seen in months while everything's shut down and management is calling every ten minutes wondering when they're going to be no longer bleeding $5-10,000 an hour in lost productivity.

Sounds like an argument for Plug & Play Skills to me. What kind of interest do we have in researching that at this time? I know that it'd be massively destabilizing to the skilled labor market, but I would think that the long-term benefits would be worth it.
 
You know...some guy worked out that even if you add in the Geth dreadnaughts (35/38), we are still looking at a 30 to 1 advantage in dreadnaughts in the Reapers favour.

So clearly, we kinda need to not just do the block upgrades, but lobby for a SA/Salarian/Turian joint dreadnaught upgrade/redesign project.

Why?

Because if you read between the lines in a few conversations, the Salarians were hoping to form a power bloc with the SA in order to counter the conservative views of the Asari and the Turians.

If you save the Council and Thane survives ME2, you get a Stealth Dreadnaught Fleet as a War Asset, wereas if you let them die, the Dalatrass just gives you a task force.

In other words: The Salarian Councilor in ME1 is the only one of the three who takes the Reaper threat seriously.

Or at least, his government does, anyway.

We could research the Black Hole Gun, see if we can create a miniture version which matches a dreadnaughts main gun or higher and strap them onto the SAs Carriers.

If SA padded out the difference between their dreadnaughts and the Turians by building Carriers, then that means SA has 20 to 25 Carriers operating.

Give them dreadnaught scale firepower and....well, you get the idea.

Also need to track down a few ancient relics, like the Asari's Big Book of War, the Volus' version of Sun Tzu and figure out a way to convince the Elcor to produce an actual space combat fleet...
 
What about nano-drones? Toss a grenade, emits a mist of nano-bots with tiny arc-reactor powered lasers that erode shields and zap vulnerable sorts? I'm thinking less useful as target destroying and more useful as area denial (who wants to stay near bees that keep stinging you?) Runs across the slight complication of may be dubbed a WMD.
Fairly sure that weaponized nanotech is considered about the same as chemical weapons in our age. At the very least, it wouldn't surprise me at all. The use of such tech would definitely draw attention to say the least.

On the other hand, there was freely sold nanotech dietary aid...
 
Sounds like an argument for theater shields to me.

The lowest grade Regional Shield, the best fit for theater shields, starts at 50 billion credits and 6 quarters for construction. A theater shield worth having as it can take a bombardment clocks in at 2500 billion credits, or two and a half trillion credits, and a total of 7 quarters worth of construction. Our currently expected revenue for the entire year of 2175 is 25 trillion credits, which means that a single theater shield is going to be a notable expense by any measure.

And this is not counting maintenance, clocking in at roughly 32 billion credits per... I think quarter, or the expense of making it mobile and capable of carrying enough supplies for an entire army, or the expense of creating the defenses of the entire thing.

It's a nice idea, but it just doesn't seem very practical.
 
You know...some guy worked out that even if you add in the Geth dreadnaughts (35/38), we are still looking at a 30 to 1 advantage in dreadnaughts in the Reapers favour.

So clearly, we kinda need to not just do the block upgrades, but lobby for a SA/Salarian/Turian joint dreadnaught upgrade/redesign project.

Why?

Because if you read between the lines in a few conversations, the Salarians were hoping to form a power bloc with the SA in order to counter the conservative views of the Asari and the Turians.

If you save the Council and Thane survives ME2, you get a Stealth Dreadnaught Fleet as a War Asset, wereas if you let them die, the Dalatrass just gives you a task force.

In other words: The Salarian Councilor in ME1 is the only one of the three who takes the Reaper threat seriously.

Or at least, his government does, anyway.

We could research the Black Hole Gun, see if we can create a miniture version which matches a dreadnaughts main gun or higher and strap them onto the SAs Carriers.

If SA padded out the difference between their dreadnaughts and the Turians by building Carriers, then that means SA has 20 to 25 Carriers operating.

Give them dreadnaught scale firepower and....well, you get the idea.

Also need to track down a few ancient relics, like the Asari's Big Book of War, the Volus' version of Sun Tzu and figure out a way to convince the Elcor to produce an actual space combat fleet...

What are the Reapers' space assets, anyway? Other than 'lots of Dreadnaughts' I mean.

The lowest grade Regional Shield, the best fit for theater shields, starts at 50 billion credits and 6 quarters for construction. A theater shield worth having as it can take a bombardment clocks in at 2500 billion credits, or two and a half trillion credits, and a total of 7 quarters worth of construction. Our currently expected revenue for the entire year of 2175 is 25 trillion credits, which means that a single theater shield is going to be a notable expense by any measure.

And this is not counting maintenance, clocking in at roughly 32 billion credits per... I think quarter, or the expense of making it mobile and capable of carrying enough supplies for an entire army, or the expense of creating the defenses of the entire thing.

It's a nice idea, but it just doesn't seem very practical.

Throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks, honestly. Though I imagine that a lot of that price is the Eezo, and if we can artificially create Eezo...

...what would it take to drastically reduce the cost of barrier technology? I like the idea of being able to honeycomb cities nearly block-by-block to reduce the (heh) impact of orbital bombardment, and make urban combat favor the defender.
 
Sounds like an argument for Plug & Play Skills to me. What kind of interest do we have in researching that at this time? I know that it'd be massively destabilizing to the skilled labor market, but I would think that the long-term benefits would be worth it.
The thing is, the "labor market" is basically already dead, thanks to VIs. This guy explains it better than I ever could:



By the time of Shepard Quest, the revolution being talked about in that video will have already happened, 150 years ago. Yes, it's happening right now; you don't think the political upheavals going on in England and America are really about trade deals, do you? The simple fact is that, right now, there is already not enough meaningful work available to employ everyone who wants a job. Shysters and con artists like Trump in Amierica and Johnson in England are managing to lie prettily enough to get millions of under-employed people to listen to their "solutions", but the fact of the matter is that the march of technology is, right now, making most of the jobs currently in existence obsolete, and there is really nothing to replace them with.

The details of the current socio-political economic crisis are beyond the scope of this quest, though. The take-away point here is that, by the time Shepard Quest rolls around, the "massively destabilizing" stuff has already happened and has been resolved amicably, or at least in a way that didn't cause most of the world to be irradiated and 99%+ of the human population to be killed in World War III, which is a depressingly likely outcome here IRL. That means that ShepQuest already knows what to do with a population where 90%+ of the population is not only unemployed but unemployable, possibly using some sort of guaranteed wage, or guaranteed job with largely symbolic work, etc.
What are the Reapers' space assets, anyway? Other than 'lots of Dreadnaughts' I mean.
No idea yet, but consider that there have been 20,000 Cycles since the Reapers first started their harvesting game (1 billion years / 50,000 years per Cycle). If even one Dreadnought-mausoleum is made per Cycle that still means that the Reapers have 20,000 Dreadnoughts minimum, and it's likely they have many times more than that.
 
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The details of the current socio-political economic crisis are beyond the scope of this quest, though. The take-away point here is that, by the time Shepard Quest rolls around, the "massively destabilizing" stuff has already happened and has been resolved amicably, or at least in a way that didn't cause most of the world to be irradiated and 99%+ of the human population to be killed in World War III, which is a depressingly likely outcome here IRL. That means that ShepQuest already knows what to do with a population where 90%+ of the population is not only unemployed but unemployable, possibly using some sort of guaranteed wage, or guaranteed job with largely symbolic work, etc.

So...we need not fear going for Plug & Play Skills then?
(also your video is the informative kind of scary)
 
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