I suspect this was due to geth quite likely being a byproduct of an entirely different research. Remember, at the time, quarians (who were ancestor worshippers) were working on, and implied to have been very close to obtaining, upload immortality. They were creating VIs based on their ancestors, and thought council with them, constantly upgrading those VIs to make them more lifelike. Given how geth were everywhere, I expect that those VIs were also a variant of geth, or at least shared similarities with their software. In fact, it would not surprise me at all if those VIs were integrated into the geth collective at some point.
Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution
- Thread starter Hoyr
- Start date
That would make even less sense, though, as it would mean they were, in essence, enslaving their ancestor's memories by using the Geth as a slave race.
It's an uncanny valley response. Geth were an emergent phenomenon related to, but not identical, to the ancestors they revered, in some ways at least. The degree of hate and rejection would be heightened by such a similarity, I feel.
Mind you, there was that one AI that was stealing a few credits here and there from people's bank accounts/wage packets and you had to track it down...to an air filtration unit, if I remember rightly.
It was supposedly spawned by someone jerry rigging a hacking VI to the air filtration unit's VI.
The reason why it carried on was to buy it's own cargo ship and leave.
You end up deleting it because when you force it into a corner (really, you stand there. It's stuck in a glorified air conditioning unit) it threatens to blow up via intentional power surge.
It was supposedly spawned by someone jerry rigging a hacking VI to the air filtration unit's VI.
The reason why it carried on was to buy it's own cargo ship and leave.
You end up deleting it because when you force it into a corner (really, you stand there. It's stuck in a glorified air conditioning unit) it threatens to blow up via intentional power surge.
That is awsome.
There nothing better than batarians being crushed by house size tanks
I prefer the idea of them being swarmed by LASER BEES, but then my preference for miniaturized energy weapons is well-known at this point.
Ah but if you ask the right questions you'll find it has a Blue Box, which is how it transitioned from VI to AI, and the whole reason it wanted a ship was because that was the only way for it to escape, since it had to take it's Blue Box with it.
I very much doubt they integrated the two. They are just too fundamentally different. The Geth are are a collection of thousands of VIs that network together become an AI. The ancestor VIs are individual VIs that are each designed to be as close as possible to an AI.I just don't see the two being compatible. That's not even going into how odd the idea that people would willing upload their parents/grandparents/great-grandparents/ect into a robotic servant.
The scenario that seems most likely to me is that a Quarian or group of Quarians decided they wanted to create a race of advanced VI servants and "borrowed" code from the Ancestor Upload project so they could get it out the door faster. It would fit with the general Quarian theme of going for the quick patch job over a well-considered plan and relying on their engineering prowess to make up the difference. Maybe they "crippled" the VIs by ensuring that each one only had access to a certain amount of processing power at a given moment, and were blindsided when the Geth adapted and started networking to make an intelligence rather than a single monolithic AI.
...two batarians being crushed by house sized tanks?
Alright, please poke holes in this idea; we buy a solar system. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, a simple lifeless rock a few days travel from a Mass Relay should be plenty sufficient for my purposes here. We set up a few prefabricated buildings on the surface to cater to the needs of our workforce (recreation facilities, hydroponics bays, sleeping quarters, etc). We set up a modest dry dock in orbit that can handle a few smallish ships. We hire Quarians and lease the system to them for...pick a number of years (I was thinking in the 20 to 50 year range) for an arbitrary amount of credits that we then use to hire a Quarian science team for that same amount to work on teching our way up to orbital rings (a 11,200 RP investment, unless I miss my guess). I know that isn't tech that people are throwing around as high-priority research, but (assuming @Hoyr is okay with this scheme) would be research that we wouldn't otherwise be conducting, we provide a place for the Migrant Fleet to get some much-needed yard time, and if we play our cards right we not only support a "we're tired of running, let's put down roots wherever we can" attitude in the fleet, we get a modestly strong economic node in the colonies (if we can get the nearby colonies to trade with them), we demonstrate that we can be a stabilizing influence in the galaxy to the Asari (or at least a constructively destabilizing one), and that sector of space benefits from anti-piracy patrols that wouldn't otherwise be there. If the Quarians opt to renew the lease in a few decades, great. If they don't, then they've put in the capital to build up the system that we can use for our own ends, whatever those might be.
This seems like a reasonable compromise to me between altruism and getting something out of the bargain.
I meant to say that geth were likely based on the same principles of programming. Also, given how widespread geth apparently were... Don't think of geth as "robotic servants". Substitute geth with "intel/windows PC". Geth are a type of software architecture in this case.
Also, individual geth is, well, I'll call it a "neuron simulator", but that's not exactly correct. Still, it's likely, in my mind at least, that, both being big species-wide projects / technologies developed by generally the same people at generally the same time, geth and the quarian upload project shared lots of technical details.
And besides once revy discovers and meet some quarians like tali it will be hard for her not to do anything about the quarians
I know I may be sounding naive but revy will likely do something ro at least help the quarians after seeing them being discriminated against
The paragon commander shepherd in canon would not stand by and watch a people slowly die
And neither would revy of paragon industries
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Artificially inducing war-weariness, eh? Might work, perhaps try to encourage young Quarians on their pilgrimage to go there? It'd still be hell tearing them away from their ships, if anything, we'd need to pay them to go to the system, they've probably been offered a bunch of planets to settle down on.
- Location
- Leeds
Okey dokey. I shall do my best.
There is no existing framework for a company to own a system, we aren't even sure how countries claim them unless its as simple as sending everyone else a post card saying "Hey, this is mine now".
Have you considered our reputation? It seems likely that even if we can purchase a solar system (from god knows who) the very fact that we're Paragon Industries will have people speculating against us in case we've found another ludicrously profitable thing.
Sounds insufficent.
Sounds way too small scale, keep in mind that without Revies magic pixy dust labs only produce one tenth the sience. In other words we'd need to make something like ten times the number of labs that are on Mindoir in order to make reasonable progress without hampering critical research.
The Quarians have tried this before, they got booted off by another race and the fact that the council didn't intervene was a large part of why they left.
Also their immune system sucks even at its best, they can't just settle down somewhere, because there are relatively few places that they would eventually be able to ditch the contamination suits.
You remember that we're PI not the SA? Theres no way in hell we're getting a personal seat and this looks (and is) an act of charity by a private citizen (or possibly indentured labour) not seat worthy material.
Like what? Unless you've got a great plan to convince people to migrate to your lifeless barren isolated rock then any factories and labs will be unmanned and useless. Frankly the only thing I could think to do would be to strip mine it.
Small correction here. The Quarians found a nice planet and applied to the Council for settlement rights. Only the Council discovered the Quarians had already settled the place prior to asking permission and so revoked their request and gave the rights to the Elcor instead. Oh and backed it up by giving the Quarians 1 standard month to leave before their settlement/s were bombed from orbit.
So really it was a case of the Quarians ignoring the proper procedures for claiming a world and the Council punishing them for doing so.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You don't know that there's no framework in place, in fact it seems quite likely given that canonically Noveria was privately owned by the Noveria Development Corporation it isn't that much of a stretch to imagine the laws covering that to extend to owning entire systems. Noveria is admittedly a special case given that it technically isn't part of Citadel space but there is precedent for corporations owning vast amounts of territory like that.
Then let them speculate, we don't really have to care about what people thinks unless it's negatively impacting our PR.
This I do agree with actually, the facilities will probably have to be more extensive than that.
Keep in mind that Quarians are generally technical geniuses so even without Revy's Magic Pixie Science Dust™ they'll probably do better than an equivalent human staffed lab when the human staffed one isn't getting any of Revy's magic dust. They likely won't be as good as labs on Mindoir but it won't be as big a discrepancy in science output as with other planets.
Like UberJJK said, that was because they were settling on territory that they didn't have a right to, in this scenario we're giving it to them freely so there's no reason for anyone to come and kick them off again.
I don't think the point is to get a Council seat, merely to reassure the Asari that we're a positive influence on the galaxy.
Giving them a place to live that isn't constantly one missed maintenance away from killing you seems like a good start.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
If you really want to do something like that, I'd suggest first attracting Quarians on their Pilgrimage, they're a lot younger, and as such more impressionable to being convinced to live groundside, and guaranteeing them job opportunities that aren't coated in stigma would be nice and tempting for a lot of 'em, then we can start trying to get them to settle down.
But, any situation in which we would do this could only be motivated by altruism, yes, Quarians are 'technical geniuses' but that's because, as has been said, they spend their lives somewhere that needs almost constant repair, they've become masters because, in some ways, their entire society has formed around the need for them, but they aren't going to be much better than someone who's actually studied for the same thing.
But, any situation in which we would do this could only be motivated by altruism, yes, Quarians are 'technical geniuses' but that's because, as has been said, they spend their lives somewhere that needs almost constant repair, they've become masters because, in some ways, their entire society has formed around the need for them, but they aren't going to be much better than someone who's actually studied for the same thing.
- Location
- Leeds
I was actually talking about speculative investment bumping up the price we'll need to pay. Combined with the fact that your example needed two dozen major companies to afford it, I'm not sure we can afford this plan.
Kind of handicapped by the fact that we have no information on other companies, PI has grown fast but we're still young it's hard to know how we compare to companies that have been experiencing slower growth for centuries or even millennia.
Perhaps quarians produce more people who know how to fix a starship because they live in one constantly however that's a far cry from being inherently better at it. Or that the entire population can do it.
Or that the mechanics will allow it. Because frankly if the quarians do for some reason provide double research dice, we'd want them on Mindoir where they don't face a massive debuff from not having Revy overseeing things.
My point was that the attitude has, had already been there, the entire point is useless.
The admirality board decides what happens with the Quarians we'd be better off getting moderates placed in the position
Then whats the point of reassuring people that we're a stabilizing influence?
If we want to show we're doing good, we finish up the biology tech. Easier, useful to orders of magnitude more people and better PR.
You mean somewhere that is not a lifeless sterile rock where one hull breach means doom for the civilisation?
Frankly this whole plan might just come off to the Quarians as putting all of their eggs in one armour plated basket. Things are unlikely to go wrong and kill them, but if they do...
The point isn't that people would speculate; the point is that, because the project is a PI project, it will draw spies like flies to rotten meat, and for that matter probably raiders. If the Batarians still exist we can be certain they'd be sending a fleet.
And it would negatively impact our PR. The Quarians are still rather universally seen as the species who created an AI race, then panicked and tried to destroy them in secret, then failed to do so, for all intents and purposes unleashing a likely-hostile, galaxy-destroying von Neumann plague on the universe. Openly supporting the Migrant Fleet is basically political suicide.
And it's not like the Migrant Fleet will be especially grateful, either: they'll gladly take whatever charity we give them, and will turn around and throw it into their conflict with the Geth, because that's where their political leaders are pointed right now. Without years of careful political maneuvering, including installing Tali as one of the five members of the Quarian Admiralty Board and personally saving the life of one of the other members, the Migrant Fleet is still inclined to take any advantage they get and immediately throw it into trying to piss off the Geth. And no, a strict agreement that they won't piss off the Geth won't work, as they have already signed such a document with the Citadel, and are obviously ignoring it: "After being refused aid by the Citadel Council, the quarians fled the system in what remained of their fleet. Shortly thereafter, the Council stripped the quarians of their embassy as punishment for their carelessness, though a treaty was agreed upon forbidding an attack on the geth in order to avoid provoking them."
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Keep in mind Tali was just as Geth-hating as the rest of her species until after ME2, where she was made to actually see what the good Geth were like, even then she can still potentially stab Legion in ME3 if you don't get the best ending for that arc.
If I remember rightly, corporates can own solar systems, but they need to send their own exploration fleet and find an 'uncharted'/'unclaimed' star system that has any worth and stake claims on everything.
There was a SA exploration floatilla that got accused of insider trading/stealing/embezzlement because they were selling charts/claims to corporates without notifying the SA first.
You end up finding them if you go to a certain solar system, they join up 'in order to counter the black mark on their record' or something.
There was a SA exploration floatilla that got accused of insider trading/stealing/embezzlement because they were selling charts/claims to corporates without notifying the SA first.
You end up finding them if you go to a certain solar system, they join up 'in order to counter the black mark on their record' or something.
- Location
- Latvia, Riga
Ah, hmm yes I think I can see both your ideas and their directions.
*Negative sarcasm, to point out part of what I don't like* So if you took and broke a very important object (like "Mona-Lisa"; "Declaration of Independence"; "Eiffel Tower", or some other object of significance) , BY CHANCE OF CIRCUMSTANCE , people are to beat half the city's population, strangle them and drown them in nearest river/lake/whatever; because just making them pay for this is not "enough to deal with this crime"........ Yes, it will take significant investment, but all in all Quarians (no matter how you guys/gals hate them) are night-equal to Salarians in damn lot of fields, cost relatively cheap (levo-amino not included), and if majority is satisfied the Conclave will have to suck it up (except Zaal'Koris Vas Qwib Qwib the one trying for peace with the Geth and legal colonisation elsewhere).
I understand your point /concern /possible repercussions and not denying the what most (most) of what you said is correct, but, sorry, for me it seems way too close to blatant racism just because. ....Just, please, don't damn a race to extinction
(which incidentally will paint very negative picture to the Geth when they finish their "Dyson Sphere" or when Heretics really emerge).
|Edit: and about that treaty, one of the main reasons Quarians ignored it, was because the Citadel races tried to "shore up their fronts" to "isolate" themselves from the Reapers as much as possible.
For the Citadel, comparatively, Quarian-Geth thing was "not important" despite all that both these races gave in constructing Crucible, evacuations, and battles against the Reapers.|
P.S. Sorry and I won't bother you with this any longer. Good Luck
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...Actually...Quarians aren't cheap, they are actually quite expensive, due to requiring extensive clean rooms for medical rooms and quite possibly specialists as well, due to Quarian xenophobia, peoples general perception of them, medical boards seeing them as more likely to steal medical supplies and treat their own injuries than to pay someone to do it, etc.....
You can use it as a loophole in an indentured servant contract on illium if talking to the rep falls through.
You can use it as a loophole in an indentured servant contract on illium if talking to the rep falls through.
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- Location
- Latvia, Riga
Isn't "Advanced Xenobiology" one step towards fixing the biology problem?
And I'm not saying do it right now (we can wait fot 2, 3 turns or so), just that Quarians, like Krogans, Asari, Humans, Volus, Hanar, etc are good (grate even) in their fields (not to mention that Paragon Industries recruits promising, openminded, talented individuals) and their experiences can help.