Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

(Seems like a "print your own money" tech)

Given how critically important eezo is that's not a surprise.

-Have mechs been completely neglected in favor of space assets?

Pretty much. The simple fact is that between Legionary hardsuits and Tiger APCs Paragon Industries, Paragon Security and the Alliance don't really see a need for mechs for the current day battlefield.

(I want me some giant stompy robots)

Tempting, but we run a business. We make what other people buy, and mechs simply aren't that much of an improvement over what they've already got, so they won't buy it.

-Related to the above, have theater shields been considered and rejected?

Considered and found to be really fucking expensive. It'd be better to shield key installations and cities for the same amount of money, as that's a cost that can actually be carried.

-I seem to recall terraforming being addressed, did we complete that already? (I don't seem to find it in the tech document, and I'd assume it'd be under Biotechnology) Fake edit: I see it on the completed techs list. Could someone point out where I could get the details on that please?

Right here:

[X] Colonization/Bioforming Genetics Package 70+330
0 + 400 = 400/400 – Finished
"Must be careful with rapid growth modifications. Pargia, classic case of over use."

"Super fauna as form of biosphere alteration, unusual."

"Multi-cellular organisms require complex biosphere systems. Development of complementary single-cellular organisms very important."

"Exotic conditions complicate things. Must consider energy sources, hazardous environmental factors, chemical resources..."

"Hmm... death world, not intended result. Avoid combination."

Can alter biospheres. Magnitude of change will affect cost and time.

-What would the Space Station line allow (aside from 'bigger objects in space')?

It lets us build bigger stuff in space. Including our own factories and military stations. IIRC all that Paragon tech is pretty damn amazing by any standard, but part of the reason Tigers work so well is because it's all Paragon designed, so there's no big need to account for possible differing design and manufacturing standards between every company that delivers components.
 
Considered and found to be really fucking expensive. It'd be better to shield key installations and cities for the same amount of money, as that's a cost that can actually be carried.

Could you point me towards that conversation? I'd like to not sound like a total rube before making comments there.

Tempting, but we run a business. We make what other people buy, and mechs simply aren't that much of an improvement over what they've already got, so they won't buy it.

I wonder if people would buy it just because we made it? I mean, given all the other surprises we've put out so far I imagine somebody would be willing to gamble on that.


@Hoyr What's the cost of terraforming Ganymede?

Ah, I miss the days where Revy could build something because it was cool instead of it being economically viable.

Implying those days are gone. If we get a "print your own money" tech (if only there was one on the tech list we could get to...) I think we could relax terms like 'economically viable' or 'waste of eezo'. Heck, get Eternal Youth and 'waste of time' likewise becomes less important too.

Are nanobot constructors a Citadel No-No? Grey Goo scenarios are rightfully scary, but that doesn't make them less useful.
 
Could you point me towards that conversation? I'd like to not sound like a total rube before making comments there.

The google doc is here. To quote the cost line, Regional Shields (closest to Theatre Shields) are 50 billion credits each for basic protection, and cost 625 million in upkeep (unsure if yearly or quarterly). However, this is basic protection. Shields strong enough to take land assault or single massive strikes cost 10 times baseline, bombardment shields 50 times baseline, extended bombardment shields cost 500 times baseline and 'that might've tickled if I noticed' level shields cost 10 000 times baseline. In both purchase and maintenance.

These are costs that Paragon Industries cannot yet take.

Smaller shields of strong grade might be valid choice at this time, as we're getting wealthy enough it starts being an interesting option.

What's the cost of terraforming Ganymede?

... We have the very basic biosphere adjustment tech Slamu. We can shift things around on goldilocks planets that are marginally habitable, Ganymede is rather... ambitious.
 
In Arrival DLC it's revealed that there is a "backup Relay" to the citadel, which gives access to every relay in the Galaxy. Guess who owns the system it's in?
So what you're saying is, next quarter the entire combined fleets of the Citadel races are going to converge on this "backup relay" and either destroy it or take it over.

The latter. It was decided that
a) they get paid differently
And
B) they have totally different duties and requirements

People who signed up for gate duty at a research lab shouldn't be up for deployment to Anhur.
Heh, and yet Anhur seems to have been the less stressful deployment of the two. Maybe after this quarter we'll see our guards on Mindoir apply for a vacation on Anhur, take a load off after the invasion? :D
Pretty much. The simple fact is that between Legionary hardsuits and Tiger APCs Paragon Industries, Paragon Security and the Alliance don't really see a need for mechs for the current day battlefield.
To expand on this @Slamu, a mech is really just a difficult to maintain, top-heavy tank with tiny feet (compared to a tank, anyway) that don't get as much traction to compensate for recoil and keep from sinking into the ground and present a much larger profile to potential enemies. There's a reason that every mecha game/anime that doesn't flat ignore the problem has to create some mech-specific phlebotinum in order to justify a mech's existence: without it there's no reason at all to build one.

Fortunately for the "mechs are awesome" crowd, there is a potential phlebotinum for us to use: artificial biotics. With artificial biotics, we may be able to seriously up-scale biotic effects by combing them with mech technology. I'm talking about 15-m mech technologies throwing around Singularities and Biotic Detonations the size of a building, or maybe the 500-m mech doing Charge+Repulsor-blast+Nova combos on the scale of dreadnoughts. The idea is intriguing, though also it's likely to be ridiculously expensive, which brings us to:

Specifically check the "General" tab on the spreadsheet, where we have GM-provided costs and construction times for various things, including regional/planetary shields. It's pretty clear that, when it comes to larger-scale shields, costs and construction times go up so massively that even our super-profitable industrial scale enterprises won't be able to build the larger shields without some significant techs invested in cost/time reduction. This means we need to find some research heroes focused on resource efficiency-boosting technologies, one of whom I'm very much hoping will be Tali.
 
Speaking of, some investigation should be done to see if Veto-type devices were ever fired in the observable universe.

For good or ill Veto has one big flaw. The mass of the black hole. The requirement to fuel an ME field are dependent on the mass in it. In all probability even using the Citadel Relay pair to try to fire off Veto would result in an failed attempt. In addition, the first things killed would be the two relays... which I'm not even going to try to understand the effects of. It maybe far better to use Veto as away to directionally weaponize a singularity. (Or maybe draw power from one?) Combining a singularity generator and a mini-Veto like system would produce an interesting weapon that can exceed even the power levels of arc-reactors as it would be a matter conversion fueled effect...

Also the fact that other than the one relay that has to be destroyed because of plot they're all consistently described as effectively indestructible. And it's a plot point that hitting one with a supernova just results in it being hard to find, but not damaged at all.

UberJJk covered it earlier, but the asteroid in question had more effective power then even a supernova in the same system would. In addition parts of the asteroid were stasis locked as well.

The Reapers are unlikely to tell the Batarians about the specifics of that Relay, as it's one hell of an advantage to anyone who has it and knows what it can do. Remember that to the Reapers the Batarian Hegemony is, in the end, a disposable minion, and you don't give those your best gear, you give them good enough gear to be a threat to whomever you want to be rid of.

They're going to keep the Alpha Relay cold until they move in to complete the Cycle.

"The Batarian Hegemony has long been aware of Alpha's capabilities, but has covered them up to avoid retaliation by other races who would view the relay as a direct threat to their territories. "

The Batarians have long known what they've got and the Alpha relay is the one that goes into that system. They just don't know about the Reaper back door thing. Apparently they actually managed to keep it a secret to.

If possible, @Hoyr, I would like to replace Adrenal Implant that is vestigal part in the tech tree which we are probably going to touch never.

Eh, I could generalize what it is and leave it with roughly the same effects. I still would wonder if it was going to be touched. *Shrugs*

-What's the Omnitool Upgrade hold? (seems like low hanging fruit to me)

Mordin wants to upgrade Omni-tool to take maximum advantage of the arc-reactor. So its basically a boost to tech powers. It also would improve other functions like the fabrication system and the hacking system though not nearly as much as it would tech powers.

-I seem to recall terraforming being addressed, did we complete that already? (I don't seem to find it in the tech document, and I'd assume it'd be under Biotechnology) Fake edit: I see it on the completed techs list. Could someone point out where I could get the details on that please?

ME does do terraforming. It's slow.

You've picked up a bioforming tech which lets you effect the life that lives on a planet. On a mundane level it could be used to remove toxic spore producing planets. On a higher level you could seed a world with bacteria that could produce an atmosphere given time, assuming anything can live there at all. On a insane level it could be used to generate a species of biotic plants that generate personal barriers, needless to say the planet would need a lot of eezo on it. (Adding in Artificial biotics and maybe some Swarm Networking would potentially allow the creation of a breed of planets that once spread over the globe would create a weak planetary shield*).

*It maybe possible that in conjunction with other tech you could go far beyond a "weak" shield.

The key idea here is manipulating (sub-sapient) life. I'm open to clever and amusing solutions. The limitation of course it the speed at which the life can integrate into the new world. Hell worlds are hard to impossible to work on; Dead worlds are usually hard (unless they are merely pre-life like early earth) as there is usually some insane extremophile that you can cook up to do something. Death worlds very from medium to hard depending on your goals and other factors. The closer you get to Garden the easier things are.

Obviously a combination of the to factors must be considered. Then its a question of time and money with can be traded for one another within practical limits.

-What kind of assistance would we need for the branches of Advanced Xenobiology? The Ardat-Yakshi makes sense, as the Asari tend to keep them under wraps, but Quarian immunity problems are well documented and the Drell are wards of the Hanar, I imagine their plight is likewise recorded.

Test subjects mostly you can't magic up a cure without working on the problem. Also note the pluralization of test subject. Other then that its a legacy thing from the way the last GM did the tech tree.

-What would the Space Station line allow (aside from 'bigger objects in space')?

Unless someone has a good suggestion that pretty much what it does. They'll be very well designed and such up to the standards Revy expects, but it's mostly about building giant space things. Usually to house some insane Mega project. Insert mandatory death star joke.
 
Black Holes bend light. Could two of them suspended in a mass effect field be capable of sending objects at relativistic speeds via a slingshot effect, if it moves into and through the event horizons of two equidistant singularities, with a secondary field shielding the object when it reaches exactly halfways through the supposed path through said event horizons?
 
-What interest do we have in advancing to Project Lazarus? (surely there's individuals that are considered VIP enough that governments are quite interested in investing in their...longevity. Having a way to rez Revvy comes to mind)

Right now little to none. Project Lazarus is 5,600RP away and at least a full year from when we start work to completion because we need to finish one tech before we can start on the techs unlocked by it.

It's something we should look into sooner rather then later, because a back-up card in case of death is always a good idea, but we have other priorities right now.

-Have mechs been completely neglected in favor of space assets? (I want me some giant stompy robots)

Pretty much. Even putting aside the fact that tanks are inherently, barring biotics of the like, better then mechs or the fact they cost less RP (5,200RP for Bolos vs 6,000RP for Eva sized stuff and 9,200RP for the insane 500m stuff) the fundamental problem is there is a ton of tech on the tree that gives far better rewards for the same RP cost and right now RP is our number 1 limiting factor.

-What priority are we putting on making eezo? (Seems like a "print your own money" tech)

Basically zero. PI already has multiple print your own money techs and by my estimates will be earning tens to hundreds of trillions of credits per year within two years, the primary limiter being construction time.

In short we are rapidly approaching the point at which PI becomes a notably percentage of the galactic GDP. So a money making tech that clocks in at 8,000RP isn't a priority. The only real draw is that with Eezo production we'd be able to afford super-sized Eezo cores for stuff.

-Related to the above, have theater shields been considered and rejected? (Seems important to people with allergies to getting bombarded from orbit yet want to remain on the go)

It's something that is kinda on my long term plans. At 2.5 trillion credits we could afford to start building Bombardment Grade Regional Shields in the next couple quarters but frankly we get far more bang for our buck by building Enduring Grade City Shields since they are one fifth the cost, finish six months faster, and can take orbital bombardment for ages before falling

Ah, I miss the days where Revy could build something because it was cool instead of it being economically viable.
Implying those days are gone. If we get a "print your own money" tech (if only there was one on the tech list we could get to...) I think we could relax terms like 'economically viable' or 'waste of eezo'. Heck, get Eternal Youth and 'waste of time' likewise becomes less important too.

Honestly cash and economic viability aren't major concerns for us as of a quarter or two from now. The real problem is our seriously limited RP pool, which is immensely slow to expand by design, meaning we have to pick the techs that give the biggest reward* rather then just being cool.

*While reward could be profit it's more often a question of how big a game changer is it for the universe as a whole.

Incidentally Slamu you remember the Reapers are going to be invading within the next decade right? Growing old really isn't a major issue, it's living long enough to see Revy's thirtieth birthday that's the problem.

Are nanobot constructors a Citadel No-No? Grey Goo scenarios are rightfully scary, but that doesn't make them less useful.

It's probably a very strictly controlled area because under the Citadel Conventions Grey Goo is considered a Tier II WMD:
TIER II: Uncontrolled self-replicating weapons, such as nanotechnology, viral or bacteriological organisms, "Von Neumann devices", and destructive computer viruses. These weapons can lie dormant for millennia, waiting for a careless visitor to carry them on to another world.
 
Basically zero. PI already has multiple print your own money techs and by my estimates will be earning tens to hundreds of trillions of credits per year within two years, the primary limiter being construction time.

In short we are rapidly approaching the point at which PI becomes a notably percentage of the galactic GDP. So a money making tech that clocks in at 8,000RP isn't a priority. The only real draw is that with Eezo production we'd be able to afford super-sized Eezo cores for stuff.
Of note: before we get to that point, we're going to run into the problem of there not being enough people with construction experience to build all the factories we're going to need/want, enough mining experience to mine the resources to build those factories, and proven resources to mine for those resources. This is why we recently bought our own construction company, why we need to buy a mining company and hurry up with the Appia project to open up new profitable mining reserves, and why we need @Yog's skillwires tech in fairly short order so that we can copy-paste those mining/construction skills that we're buying into the tens of thousands, and then millions, and then hundreds of millions, of workers we're going to need to hire to mine and build everything we need.

In short, we're spinning up an organic von Neumann swarm. :D
 
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Honestly cash and economic viability aren't major concerns for us as of a quarter or two from now. The real problem is our seriously limited RP pool, which is immensely slow to expand by design, meaning we have to pick the techs that give the biggest reward* rather then just being cool.

*While reward could be profit it's more often a question of how big a game changer is it for the universe as a whole.

I'm also fairly new to this quest, so I hope you'll forgive the '101'-level question:

How do we expand our RP pool? From what I can tell, it mostly has to do with buying new research labs and hiring people to fill them? Those costs are dependent on the profits we get from production, but we seem to be doing pretty well there. What would it take to dramatically expand our research capabilities?
 
We need to build more research labs and hire more researchers. We can get boosts by doing cooperative studies with foreign institutes of learning, such as the University of Surkesh.
 
I'm also fairly new to this quest, so I hope you'll forgive the '101'-level question:

How do we expand our RP pool? From what I can tell, it mostly has to do with buying new research labs and hiring people to fill them? Those costs are dependent on the profits we get from production, but we seem to be doing pretty well there. What would it take to dramatically expand our research capabilities?

The problem isn't the cost it's that we're only allowed one stack of labs (I, II, and III) per planet and may only build labs on one planet, being only allowed to start on another planet when the stack is completed.

Basically there is nothing we can do since it's a gameplay mechanic put into place to prevent us from putting hundreds/thousands of labs down and buying our way to victory.
 
The problem isn't the cost it's that we're only allowed one stack of labs (I, II, and III) per planet and may only build labs on one planet, being only allowed to start on another planet when the stack is completed.

Basically there is nothing we can do since it's a gameplay mechanic put into place to prevent us from putting hundreds/thousands of labs down and buying our way to victory.
Well, we can spend personal actions looking for research heroes; in fact, now that we're done with Peak Human we ought to start doing that again.

Depending on the chances of actually getting a research hero, we might even be better off sacrificing a die or two of Revy's personal research time in order to hire 2-3 heroes per quarter, at least for awhile. That would also give @Hoyr a chance to put Revy in some interesting RP situations, which we can do now that we have the strongest ships in the galaxy (that we know of) to protect us, and be less of a homebody. Something to think about anyway.
 
The key idea here is manipulating (sub-sapient) life. I'm open to clever and amusing solutions. The limitation of course it the speed at which the life can integrate into the new world. Hell worlds are hard to impossible to work on; Dead worlds are usually hard (unless they are merely pre-life like early earth) as there is usually some insane extremophile that you can cook up to do something. Death worlds very from medium to hard depending on your goals and other factors. The closer you get to Garden the easier things are.

Obviously a combination of the to factors must be considered. Then its a question of time and money with can be traded for one another within practical limits.

So taking advantage of the fact that Ganymede already has water, a magnetic field and (as I understand it) a mineralogy roughly in the neighborhood of terran standard, is in an already industrially developed system and some atmosphere, pretty close to both a gas giant and a modest asteroid belt (to cover infusions of some elements it is judged to be lacking) and, I would think, a few modestly tweaked extremophiles feeding off oceanic vents (or possibly tidal forces?) might boost the production of sapient-friendly atmosphere.

Complications I'm seeing are that it'd err to the side of the cold side of things (more distant from the sun, more water), is one moon among many (orbital calculations ought to be fun) and has light gravity (>2 m/s), what would it take to have a habitat that humans could survive in (if not comfortably) in 10 years and garden world-like conditions within 150?

While I'm thinking of it, after Eternal Youth would Salarian life extension be a daughter technology? I can't help but feel that Dr. Solus is worth a great deal as a war asset, and even if all we do is extend his shelf life by ten years I'd call that a win. Plus apparently a nephew of his is also quite brilliant? (I am assuming the thread has already said 'no Genophage cure')

Insert mandatory death star joke.

...I'll be honest, I was trying to avoid those at least for a little while. Someone might have taken me seriously about moon-sized constructions.

Well, we can spend personal actions looking for research heroes; in fact, now that we're done with Peak Human we ought to start doing that again.

Depending on the chances of actually getting a research hero, we might even be better off sacrificing a die or two of Revy's personal research time in order to hire 2-3 heroes per quarter, at least for awhile. That would also give @Hoyr a chance to put Revy in some interesting RP situations, which we can do now that we have the strongest ships in the galaxy (that we know of) to protect us, and be less of a homebody. Something to think about anyway.

Would having Revy do a lecture circuit boost the quality of candidates she could recruit? I believe she has completed her doctorate and I don't doubt that she'd be enthusiastically recieved by faculty of pretty much anywhere she went (...I am now imagining her lecturing in the bombed out ruins of a Krogan university to a packed-by-Krogan-standards audience) so in addition to getting to confer with staff members beforehand I imagine she could drop promising students a "call me after you take your exams" business card kind of like she did with Herr Doktor von Blackholegun Conrad & Co.

...how is Wrex faring, anyway? And that fellow who cloned Grunt?
 
-What would the Space Station line allow (aside from 'bigger objects in space')?
Eventually mobile habitation. And that's important, because even if we can afford planetary shields, Reapers (or even we ourselves) could still nova the start around which the planet orbits.

For good or ill Veto has one big flaw. The mass of the black hole. The requirement to fuel an ME field are dependent on the mass in it. In all probability even using the Citadel Relay pair to try to fire off Veto would result in an failed attempt. In addition, the first things killed would be the two relays... which I'm not even going to try to understand the effects of. It maybe far better to use Veto as away to directionally weaponize a singularity. (Or maybe draw power from one?) Combining a singularity generator and a mini-Veto like system would produce an interesting weapon that can exceed even the power levels of arc-reactors as it would be a matter conversion fueled effect...
True. Still, there might be workarounds. Only spherical, and potentially thoroidal black holes are stable. Just disrupting the shape locally (i.e. a tiny pinprick distortion) long enough might cause instabilities to develop that will then self-propagate. Though, really, not my field of expertise. I would still be on lookout for it, though. Because that would clearly presence of elder civilizations in the universe.

Personally, I would say that Veto-like effects should be used to "mine" black holes by scooping up Hawking radiation and exotic particles and using those to irradiate normal matter and produce eezo.
 
While I'm thinking of it, after Eternal Youth would Salarian life extension be a daughter technology? I can't help but feel that Dr. Solus is worth a great deal as a war asset, and even if all we do is extend his shelf life by ten years I'd call that a win. Plus apparently a nephew of his is also quite brilliant? (I am assuming the thread has already said 'no Genophage cure')

Advanced Xenobiology means we can apply all the biotech stuff we've created to all (know?) species. So Adv. Xeno + Eternal Youth mean we can make everyone ageless from Salarians (who could really use the boost) to Asari (who are already pretty damn close).
 
How do we expand our RP pool? From what I can tell, it mostly has to do with buying new research labs and hiring people to fill them?

This is correct.

Those costs are dependent on the profits we get from production, but we seem to be doing pretty well there. What would it take to dramatically expand our research capabilities?

This is forbidden. Ideally at this point gamewise increases to RP generation should be slow. The original set up (by a past QM) had some poorly balanced economic/research structures. (I've been complaining about some of them for ages). Hell once past the Powered Armor competition back when I was just a player I had written out a plan to maximize RP and get all of the techs available at the time before the reapers arrive while only building one lab at a time.

Because of this there were four options for past QMs and me. Re-balance the RP curve of techs to match the development of labs. Limit increases to RP generation. Have the Reapers attack early. Add some other antagonist. Or some combination of those. Previous QMs chose option two and I have kept with that.

In universe it's because Revy produces magic science pixie dust which is needed to fuel the tech boom. (As EDI would say "that was a joke") Technically it been loosely fluffed as a combination of tech tree existing because of Revy's genius and thus her needing to be directly involved in the projects for maximum gain, organizational issues, and the fact that throwing money and people at the problem produces lower marginal gains.

Complications I'm seeing are that it'd err to the side of the cold side of things (more distant from the sun, more water), is one moon among many (orbital calculations ought to be fun) and has light gravity (>2 m/s), what would it take to have a habitat that humans could survive in (if not comfortably) in 10 years and garden world-like conditions within 150?

I'm not sure there is enough gravity to maintain a good atmosphere so that's a big problem... I think it's shielded by Jupiter's Magnetic field so that's not a primary issue, unless it isn't in which case like Mars its magnetic field sucks to.

That said if you want to seed a bunch of atmosphere fixing bacteria on planet and let them go you could create something interesting if not habitable to normal humans. Say a few hundred million a year to seed bacteria and monitor development?

...how is Wrex faring, anyway? And that fellow who cloned Grunt?

Wrex still thinks his species consists of suicidal nuts not worth saving and they're doomed. He's engaged in one of Krogan-kind's favorite activities getting into fights and is getting payed as a bonus. (He's a Merc as expected) Unfortunately some human made really powerful powered armor and no one's going to build a Krogan version for ages which may mean once the tech proliferates that he'll be out of a job.

Okeer is being a mad scientist with no ethics somewhere. He maybe working on his make the best Krogan ever project. The Krogan Science Council thinks he's crazy nutcase.
 
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Wrex still thinks his species consists of suicidal nuts not worth saving and their doomed. He's engaged in one of Krogan-kind's favorite activities getting into fights and is getting payed as a bonus. (He's a Merc as expected) Unfortunately some human made really powerful powered armor and no one's going to build a Krogan version for ages which may mean once the tech proliferates that he'll be out of a job.
There's a nice new war for a merc to fight in. And since Wrex isn't suicidal enough to go up against PI tech...
 
Complications I'm seeing are that it'd err to the side of the cold side of things (more distant from the sun, more water), is one moon among many (orbital calculations ought to be fun) and has light gravity (>2 m/s), what would it take to have a habitat that humans could survive in (if not comfortably) in 10 years and garden world-like conditions within 150?

The first might be possible. The second... not so much. For that you need a biosphere that's self supporting and can maintain a thick, heat retaining atmosphere at roughly 4% the insolation of Earth, and can grow food for people living there that is not toxic.
 
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