Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

@ASATHOTHoth: The only thing we really know about that hacker was that he/she/it was somehow connected to the attacking forces, and that he/she/it acted like a hacker, not a cracker.

What exactly that connection to the attacker was, we do not know. It could be as their pet hacker, a spy watching them and doing a 'oh no, I botched a hacking attempt, oh no, now the alarm is going off while the bastards I'm watching are trying to get in silently, how sad', an 'illegal immigrant' Geth AI working for pay or a shackled AI who was following orders in such a way as to stick it to the people doing the shackling and to maybe possibly get free. We do not have enough information.
 
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Ah, I see. So, in other words, it doesn't matter if what we're doing is effective or not, so long as we look good doing it.

Do I really need to explain why that's a bad idea?
Man, are you saying that a swarm of killing floating eyes with death rays dont look good? Mr. Remulian dont apear to see the greatness of them too. I have to say I WANT THIS! First the Army of Doom-Eyes, then immortality and finaly just to be le crème de lá crème, the Ultimate Personal Armor. Maybe even make just ONE later of a semi-sentient self replicating symbiont compound that later can or can not become sentient and live in a star? Just to spite in the reapers face, you know? And yes, i liked the Tony asshole of Superior Ironman a little too much.
 
The main point of Remulian's post was that Revy should have better than market Power Armor to increase her suvivability?
Yes, because that works out so great for Tony Stark. Nobody ever goes after him, because he keeps all of his tech to himself.

No, actually all that we'd accomplish by frittering away RPs in order to buy ourselves double-secret trump cards is that we'll have to deploy them even more often, and against greater numbers of attackers, since the tech that we've actually deployed en masse won't be able to handle things. How many more of those 35 invading ships would have landed outside the city if we didn't have two Pyndas and a dozen Gladius-Ds shredding into them? How big of a horde would we, personally, need to fight in our Mark II suit if we didn't have thousands of drones to take the brunt of the attack?

Also a question when we got owned by a hacker awhile back ago was it the Geth who did it and would they have gain any info on tech from being in our system? And could it be possible we would be seeing some of our tech being deployed by our enemies if they are Geth?
They didn't get anything; Revy shut down the research servers right from the beginning, when the hacker was still "trying to gain access". Besides, that tech is nine months old now. Ancient history.
 
Hey guys, who wants to bust out the hydra missiles?

Also, I was wondering if the idea of an airborne battle/carrier had any merit.
 
Hey guys, who wants to bust out the hydra missiles?
Actually, yeah, why haven't we done that already? Between our Hydras and our Anti-ship missiles we should have enough ordinance to swamp and take out that dread's GARDIAN emitters, leaving our Accipiters free to carve the ship up into small, easily digestible chunks.
 
I thought all of our hydras were off with ParSec?
We kept a quarter of our forces back for wargames with the orbiting cruiser fleet:

ParSec (Landing):
  • 125 Troops in Legionary Powered Armor
  • 12 Tiger IFVs
  • 1,290 Accipiter "Atmospheric Edition" Drones
  • 15 Gladius (Type C) Fighters and pilots and crew to match
    • 36 Small Anti-ship Missiles
    • 3 Standard Anti-ship Missiles
    • 2 Large Anti-ship Missiles
    • 135 Hydra Cluster Missiles
  • 2 Lite Laser Pynda Frigates
  • 2, 000 Tribulus Drones
Good thing, huh?

Also, we built 100 more Hydras over the past 24 hours:
-[X] In the first 12 hours, build 1,000 Sagittarius drones, 1,000 Aspidai drones, and 10 Standard Anti-ship missiles (1,395 million, 6,000 production). Distribute 600 of those drones to the various fast-reaction forces (3 each per squad).
-[X] In the second 12 hours, build 20 Tigers, 10 Standard Anti-ship missiles, 100 Hydras, 192 Legionaries, and 1,000 Piliums (1,314.4 million, 4566 Production)

-[X] In hours 24-48 (ish), build 10 Gladius Type Cs (2,583.9 million, 9,290 Production)
-[X] Total spent over 48 hours: 5,293.3 million credits, 19,856 Production

You manage to get though 24 hours of build cycles, before...
So we have 235 of them total on Mindoir. Most are probably up with the Gladii and Pyndas, but we've probably got 50 or so on the ground, ever since Anhur proved how useful they are for groundside saturation smart-bomb runs.

Now that I'm thinking about it, we could use some sort of shield-missile to close the distance on atmospheric GARDIAN systems. Build a giant wedge out of Silaris Armor (Superalloys means we can probably make pretty good laser armor), add a mass-lightening field so it can move fast and Warp Barriers to defeat non-laser AMS, and hide a bunch of ordinance inside it until it closes with the target. Wonder what the price/specs on something like that would be? Probably not something we can throw together for the current situation, but thoughts for the future.
 
Yeah, but the thing is I do not care about the drones. I care about Revy. And looking Awesome, and Having Fun. Power Armor gets us all that, and keeps Revy safer when inevitably we will face off against Mk1/Mk2 Ace pilots.

Thus its more important.

The singular point of failure for PI is basically Revy, and thus ensuring her personal security is paramount. Thus beelining MK 3. Its not about pumping thousands of Mk3s, but building just one. For Revy. That way we are certain we have the best PA around and know we have no technological equal until the Reapers show, and thus once we have the PA we are mostly invulnerable to pretty much everything.


That is why, PA is probably imho the most important thing once you get down to it, because we are not playing Paragon Industries, but Revy Shepard.

The forces that we face here could be defeated with conventional SA gear. Thus the Laser weapons are a nice addition but MK2 or MK 3 would have been better because it would have guaranteed Revy's survival even if we Leeroy Jenkins the whole invading force.


And it would have send a massive moral victory if we did that and won, to the tune of massively increasing the value of PI and Parsec.

Basically, while nice, all the extra upgrades for the fleets past our current levels are not necessary until the reapers show up because we have technological superiority, while everything that increases our one and only PC's gear for survival and combat effectiveness is more important.


For War on a Industrial Scale, considering SA Peer opponents what we have provided thus far is good enough. The problem is that Revy herself has only .25 gen better gear, instead of having 1 or 2 gen better gear than everyone else.


Look, you are trying to play Revy as a Fighter or something. She isn't.

Her combat focus isn't to hit the other guy with a shiny Suit of Face Stomping +5 until he stops twitching.


She is a Moneymancer. Her opponents first need to plow through the fucking army protecting her. And being a Moneymancer, they are all boss level fights in their own right. Because she has the money and the technology.

And if you get close? She casts 'Summon MOAR Drones' on your ass and runs away.


Really, why should we play Revy is being a moron? What idiot goes out to fight herself because she is one of the best pilots if she is still the person to be protected?

This isn't the age of knights valiantly fighting their enemies. That went out of the window with industrial warfare. Even if Revy equals 10 normal soldiers on her own, we field how many of them? We field how many Drones? Revys direct combat contribution is a joke on that scale.
 
Well, that's what happens when you make Iron Man not a greedy, ego-maniacal, misogynistic alcoholic.

Okay, I haven't heard any objections, so I added the above to my vote. I figure six drones are about the maximum that we can conveniently micromanage ourselves without getting distracted from whatever we're doing; also Shadowrun has a bit of a tradition of doing everything in sixes.
Tony Stark is chauvinistic, not misogynistic.
 
So, I've been thinking. If and when we develop full body prosthetics (and artificial biotics and carbon nanotube muscles)... What do you guys think about making ourselves a primary Great Dragon body with a humanoid drone (that can be stored in it) linked to it via QEC? To finish off the Shadowrun parallel. I mean, we could potentially make it something like 20 meters long on the outside (any more and getting around would be hard, though I wouldn't mind making oursleves a kilometer-long dragon body), meaning that it would be FTL capable and all.
 
So, I've been thinking. If and when we develop full body prosthetics (and artificial biotics and carbon nanotube muscles)... What do you guys think about making ourselves a primary Great Dragon body with a humanoid drone (that can be stored in it) linked to it via QEC? To finish off the Shadowrun parallel. I mean, we could potentially make it something like 20 meters long on the outside (any more and getting around would be hard, though I wouldn't mind making oursleves a kilometer-long dragon body), meaning that it would be FTL capable and all.

We need to turn our office into a proper hoard as well.

What self respecting Dragon doesn't sleep on mountains of gold?
 
So, I've been thinking. If and when we develop full body prosthetics (and artificial biotics and carbon nanotube muscles)... What do you guys think about making ourselves a primary Great Dragon body with a humanoid drone (that can be stored in it) linked to it via QEC? To finish off the Shadowrun parallel. I mean, we could potentially make it something like 20 meters long on the outside (any more and getting around would be hard, though I wouldn't mind making oursleves a kilometer-long dragon body), meaning that it would be FTL capable and all.
Well, other complications off the top of my head:

1. Would require 5, 15, and possibly 50 meter mech to pull off (because that's basically what we'd be doing: taking our brain-in-a-jar and putting it in a giant mech)
2. Per @Hoyr, the humanoid body can't contain a QEC with enough bandwidth to drive a body in real time, to the human drone will have a lot of exposed bandwidth, and likely some problems with reaction time and "uncanny valley syndrome". Expect social and PR to suffer accordingly until and unless we can dissect enough Rachni to develop hyper-compact/organic QECs.
3. Unless we let Liara in on the deal, and she's okay with it, Revy's love life will certainly suffer since that whole telepathy-sex thing probably won't work over QEC.
4. In addition to 2, there's an additional dehumanizing cost to deliberately ditching the human body, both on Revy's end as she loses an essential connection with the rest of humanity and organic life in general, and on the end of the rest of the public should they find out that Revy chose to discard her body to live as a mechanical monster.
 
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Yes, because that works out so great for Tony Stark. Nobody ever goes after him, because he keeps all of his tech to himself.

No, actually all that we'd accomplish by frittering away RPs in order to buy ourselves double-secret trump cards is that we'll have to deploy them even more often, and against greater numbers of attackers, since the tech that we've actually deployed en masse won't be able to handle things. How many more of those 35 invading ships would have landed outside the city if we didn't have two Pyndas and a dozen Gladius-Ds shredding into them? How big of a horde would we, personally, need to fight in our Mark II suit if we didn't have thousands of drones to take the brunt of the attack?
Ah, I see. So, in other words, it doesn't matter if what we're doing is effective or not, so long as we look good doing it.
Do I really need to explain why that's a bad idea?

You missunderstand. My point is that what we have deployed as of now is pretty good, and does not really need more to face off against current peer opponents barring massive numbers or weight disparity, and even then as the Pyndas show.


The problem is that we most definitely did not need cruisers as they would not be ready for action unlike Pyndas and frigate refits.

Meanwhile ensuring our personal security is more important than continuing to upstage forces we are already superior to.


As of now, with the Pyndas, and other options we have our and SA forces are pretty fucking top level, and improving them is not as critical as ensuring Revy is above most battlefield threats.

And after we get the next turn of Research we do not need more guns aside for maybe one more laser tech and should focus on beelineing MK3 not to deploy it, but for Revy to have it to secure herself.


Because at the end of the day, we can actually keep going if half or more of the galaxy drops dead. Not so if Revy does.
And as players of a character we kind of have to be in the middle of it, eventually. So we might as well ensure that when we do we have invested all we can into ensuring we personally can survive it. Better PA MKs for our sole use ensure it.

To win a war against batarians the SA does not need cruisers. Or other more exotic weapons as of now. But Revy can sure use suitability upgrades at every turn.


I am not saying we should Tony Stark it and be a fucking superhero. I am quite comfortable with selling a lesser MK, and would love to go to a hypothetical artisan crafted MK4 series for Revy once we consider selling MK3.

I am saying dumping 2000 RP in making sure that Revy has better gear than anyone else is worth it considering that we ARE Revy, and as such Revy is worth probably more than half if not the whole entire armed forces of the SA to us.

Up until now we have invested precious little into Revys personal security as opposed to general security and defenses, and as we have seen there have been multiple instances of Revy being on front lines or targeted, as such it would be prudent for us to prepare for such circumstances, and investing RP into having better than anyone gear for when it does happen is a smart choice.


The thing is that as of now we are massively outnumbered and current technology we have provided is comfortably dealing with said numerical disparity, and as such do not need more boosts, and are not really incentivized to give them fair market value once its only further increasing the massive gap between current potential enemies, that have no chance anyway once Pyndas get proliferated throughout the SA Navy.

If we were a dragon I wouldn't make such a fuss about our gear but we are unfortunately not, unless the great GM allows for the Awakening bringing forth the Sixth age to happen when Revy is on Earth and for some reason for Revy to have a chance as wakeing up as a Dragon. Don't as me how. She is a magical space fairy already, being a Dragon would be the obvious thing.
2000 RP we can pay up faster than trying to get on Asari Matriarch, Krogan Battlemaster or N7 OTL Shepard levels, and if we do get to that badass level it only compounds it.
 
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You missunderstand. My point is that what we have deployed as of now is pretty good, and does not really need more to face off against current peer opponents barring massive numbers or weight disparity, and even then as the Pyndas show.


The problem is that we most definitely did not need cruisers as they would not be ready for action unlike Pyndas and frigate refits.

Meanwhile ensuring our personal security is more important than continuing to upstage forces we are already superior to.


As of now, with the Pyndas, and other options we have our and SA forces are pretty fucking top level, and improving them is not as critical as ensuring Revy is above most battlefield threats.

And after we get the next turn of Research we do not need more guns aside for maybe one more laser tech and should focus on beelineing MK3 not to deploy it, but for Revy to have it to secure herself.


Because at the end of the day, we can actually keep going if half or more of the galaxy drops dead. Not so if Revy does.
And as players of a character we kind of have to be in the middle of it, eventually. So we might as well ensure that when we do we have invested all we can into ensuring we personally can survive it. Better PA MKs for our sole use ensure it.

To win a war against batarians the SA does not need cruisers. Or other more exotic weapons as of now. But Revy can sure use suitability upgrades at every turn.


I am not saying we should Tony Stark it and be a fucking superhero. I am quite comfortable with selling a lesser MK, and would love to go to a hypothetical artisan crafted MK4 series for Revy once we consider selling MK3.

I am saying dumping 2000 RP in making sure that Revy has better gear than anyone else is worth it considering that we ARE Revy, and as such Revy is worth probably more than half if not the whole entire armed forces of the SA to us.

Up until now we have invested precious little into Revys personal security as opposed to general security and defenses, and as we have seen there have been multiple instances of Revy being on front lines or targeted, as such it would be prudent for us to prepare for such circumstances, and investing RP into having better than anyone gear for when it does happen is a smart choice.


The thing is that as of now we are massively outnumbered and current technology we have provided is comfortably dealing with said numerical disparity, and as such do not need more boosts, and are not really incentivized to give them fair market value once its only further increasing the massive gap between current potential enemies, that have no chance anyway once Pyndas get proliferated throughout the SA Navy.

If we were a dragon I wouldn't make such a fuss about our gear but we are unfortunately not, unless the great GM allows for the Awakening bringing forth the Sixth age to happen when Revy is on Earth and for some reason for Revy to have a chance as wakeing up as a Dragon. Don't as me how. She is a magical space fairy already, being a Dragon would be the obvious thing.
2000 RP we can pay up faster than trying to get on Asari Matriarch, Krogan Battlemaster or N7 OTL Shepard levels, and if we do get to that badass level it only compounds it.

So you are saying that instead of making sure no threat gets even close to Revy by making our bodyguards so hideously powerful that you need strategic weapons to get through, you want to give Revy a powerful suit that she can wear on the off chance we are attacked while away from our security detail. Nevermind the odds that any assassin will let Revy get her suit on.

Sorry. This is silly.

Just having better tech doesn't make us immune against numbers. It just means our enemy has to throw more numbers at us. Our enemies happen to have those numbers as the current situation shows.

TheEyes stated it well enough when he said that UV Lasers and MEWs would have no-sold this entire attack before it even got close to Mindoir.

A Mk3 Suit would have done fuck all against that fleet. Eventually, we'd have been brought down when the invaders send a frigatte or something at us.
 
Well, other complications off the top of my head:

1. Would require 5, 15, and possibly 50 meter mech to pull off (because that's basically what we'd be doing: taking our brain-in-a-jar and putting it in a giant mech)
2. Per @Hoyr, the humanoid body can't contain a QEC with enough bandwidth to drive a body in real time, to the human drone will have a lot of exposed bandwidth, and likely some problems with reaction time and "uncanny valley syndrome". Expect social and PR to suffer accordingly until and unless we can dissect enough Rachni to develop hyper-compact/organic QECs.
3. Unless we let Liara in on the deal, and she's okay with it, Revy's love life will certainly suffer since that whole telepathy-sex thing probably won't work over QEC.
4. In addition to 2, there's an additional dehumanizing cost to deliberately ditching the human body, both on Revy's end as she loses an essential connection with the rest of humanity and organic life in general, and on the end of the rest of the public should they find out that Revy chose to discard her body to live as a mechanical monster.
1. Well, this, if true, shuts down the idea, because we would need those RP elsewhere.
2. Just means we need to do more science.
3. I'll only consider moving to a different body when the new one will be better, or at least just as good, as the old one in all respects
4. I certainly hope that through a combination of lobbying, and rapid technological advancement, by the time a move to a massive draconic FTL-capable body becomes possible, the definition of "humanity" will get expanded enough that such a move wouldn't be considered dehumanizing.

I mean, I expect at least some people to go for not exactly human body types if and when full body prosthetics become available.
 
So, I've been thinking. If and when we develop full body prosthetics (and artificial biotics and carbon nanotube muscles)... What do you guys think about making ourselves a primary Great Dragon body with a humanoid drone (that can be stored in it) linked to it via QEC? To finish off the Shadowrun parallel. I mean, we could potentially make it something like 20 meters long on the outside (any more and getting around would be hard, though I wouldn't mind making oursleves a kilometer-long dragon body), meaning that it would be FTL capable and all.
It has legs. Rejected.:V

Also, we should probably get mom. She's an N5, put her in legionary armor and she'll handle the invasion herself.
 
1. Well, this, if true, shuts down the idea, because we would need those RP elsewhere.
Yeah. Besides, we have a better model to emulate anyway: we take our brain-in-a-box and put it in the captain's chair of a stealthed starship, and use a remote body when we need to.

If it makes you feel better, we can use a dragon for our flying holographic avatars.

2. Just means we need to do more science.
Indeed, and ogranic/hypercompact QECs are something we want to develop anyway, for pretty much exactly this reason. If we can fit enough QEC bandwidth to drive a human body inside a space as big as a human torso we're set.

3. I'll only consider moving to a different body when the new one will be better, or at least just as good, as the old one in all respects
Well, like I said, it's another consideration. Besides, it's just generally a good idea not to piss off the Asari, and cutting them off from being able to have mind-sex with our Human Mark IIs clients would really piss them off.

4. I certainly hope that through a combination of lobbying, and rapid technological advancement, by the time a move to a massive draconic FTL-capable body becomes possible, the definition of "humanity" will get expanded enough that such a move wouldn't be considered dehumanizing.

I mean, I expect at least some people to go for not exactly human body types if and when full body prosthetics become available.
It'll likely be a fringe look for quite some time, especially in the over-40 crowd. And let's also not forget that, thanks to Eternal Youth, all those old people are going to be sticking around indefinitely now.
 
You know what I would find hilarious? If after all these people going "see I told you we needed the Mk2!" all the attackers die before they even get close to Revy.

Mindoir is a farming planet with basically no notable structures outside it's cities. So the enemy forces have to cross thirty kilometers over what is almost certainly mostly clear-cut farmland.

That is the sort of terrain that is perfect for our Drones, Tigers, and to a lesser extent Legionaries to just mow down waves of enemies.

To make matters even worse 30km is a long way. Seriously looking up modern day military vehicles I'm seeing most are in the 50km/h off road range. Being farmland and future tech would likely bring that up but even at say 90km/h your still talking about a twenty minute drive.

Given that they'll be under continually attack and bombardment I highly doubt they'd manage to travel full speed the entire distance.
 
To make matters even worse 30km is a long way. Seriously looking up modern day military vehicles I'm seeing most are in the 50km/h off road range. Being farmland and future tech would likely bring that up but even at say 90km/h your still talking about a twenty minute drive.
You know, this kind of brings to mind the fact that we just had a ship fly past our defenders, enter a parking orbit, and land. How long did all of that take? Because if it took say 45 minutes, we could direct one or more of our Space Factories to build a Large Anti-Starship Missile (84m cr/240 pr), add a thick laser armor cap over the front (for say another +12.5 million cr/+50 pr), and fire it into the dread before it touches down.

If you can't tell, I really want our factories to be our super-power. :D
 
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I'm laughing so fucking hard right now.
No Deathwings, the Mk2 is a waste of time Deathwings, we won't need Deathwings.

Vindication.
Yeah, the Mk 2 sure would have been effective at stopping a carrier, and totally would have been a more effective tool than improved lasers.
(This is sarcasm. Personal scale equipment would have been useless against the carrier, and that's the only current threat to us worth noting.)

You know, this kind of brings to mind the fact that we just had a ship fly past our defenders, enter a parking orbit, and land. How long did all of that take? Because if it took say 45 minutes, we could direct one or more of our Space Factories to build a Large Anti-Starship Missile, add a thick laser armor cap over the front (for say another +12.5 million cr/50 pr), and fire it into the dread before it touches down.
... Behold! The Moneymancer!
 
How much armor and vehicle support are we expecting to go up against?

Also, what's the yield of the Hydra's submunitions?
 
Thinking about those travel times brings up the space battle overhead. We are explicitly told in the Codex that battles over inhabited planets tend to be pretty quick due to heat buildup:
Codex:Combat Endurance said:
Combat endurance varies by ship design and by the battle's location. Battles in the deep cold of interstellar space can go on for some time. Engagements close to a star are brief. Since habitable worlds are usually close to a star, battles over them are usually more frantic.

So depending upon how fast "brief" is we could be looking at obtaining orbital superiority soon*, Arc Reactors + Repulsors make our Lite Laser Pyndas dramatically more heat efficient then traditional ships, which would be a crushing advantage for us.

*Consider that the clock is probably already at the two, or even three, minute mark just for the ship to travel from it's entry point, to space over Mindoir, through the atmosphere at a safe speed, and land.

Orbital supremacy is great since we can just bombard the Dreadnought from orbit with our Lite Laser Pyndas. There are two up there and each can shoot 10 rounds per second from their spinal MAC. Some quick calcs put a 90m MAC at ~4.2 kilotons per round.

So combined they would be outputting 85.5 kilotons per second. Which while certainly scary is perfectly safe at 30km, hell it's safe at 5km. At ground zero however... well that Dreadnought is going down.

Oh it is worth noting that technically the impacts will be weaker due to the atmosphere but that only saps 20% of the energy and 68.4kt/s is still scary. Especially since it's twice what a 880m Dreadnought can put out in two seconds.
 
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