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I was under the impression that we were talking about a female character.
Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution
- Thread starter Hoyr
- Start date
Are you from some weird parallel reality where Garrus isn't Shepard's awesome girlbro?
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NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
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...Honestly those Turians all look the same to me.
@UberJJK oh yeah the formula for MAC fire power...
Well shameful admission time! I did the math out once for linear scaling for this... and well it would destroy standard ME combat if that's how it worked. Seriously broad sides for the win see it would be total length of all guns per salvo no just length of gun. So I've been doing all my estimates using cubic scaling from the Everest gun! (4,025,0002*20/2 is the power of that one for reference). This is not entirely sane, as well railguns/coilguns are linear accelerators so length is one of the key factors and well would scale linearly (other factors are part of it after a point there is all this interference stuff that'll pop up).
I yeah... not the best thing ever and it works okay as long as the power things was limited because you can go.. hey it needs power and all and you can kinda do some handwaving... but with arc-reactors that becomes a poor excuse.
Add on to that the price/power effects of PI improvements or just normal budget designs and well messy.
Edit: That's part of why I tossed in the ROF thing...
I look forward to any ideas you may have.
Actually for the sake of my own sanity... I really really want to change something... which is pretty much all of that stuff.
Warning Rant:
The railgun information as provided is NONSENSE
. Shot speed is one of the most important factors for a weapon in space warfare. It's one of the prime determiners of effective combat range and every bit of information provided about ME space warfare says 4,025km/s is too damn slow. A ship fighting "tens of thousands of km" away can see that and dodge. At a one shot per two second fire rate that is too damn slow to even do "box them in to hit tricks".
Shots must go faster and with eezo it's pretty trivial to do so look at how little it takes in my example! For a ten times increase in the mass effect you can get one hundred times the speed, so fast the shot would normally be going faster than the speed of light*. That does cost more eezo, but well did the math for FTL cores to do those levels... Oh no our 1,000m railgun cost ~300 million more on and now can effectively work at light second ranges! That's to expensive on our 47 trillion credit ship make it go slower! Oh no it takes a fraction of the main drive core's power when were not using it another good reason not to do that!
*Because I don't like FTL guns for my own sanity it'll probably be caped at 0.999...9c, though being able to fire psuedo-FTL rounds would explain the rail/coilgun's battlefield primacy in ME. To bad the writers couldn't do kinematics
.
Anyway does anyone see any issue with me making railgun rounds go faster and having the old numbers just be stats for the energy/impact effects? It makes my head hurt less.
Also this is not the secret to free energy planet killers... hell no.
/Rant
Okay rant over back to writing news segments!
Well shameful admission time! I did the math out once for linear scaling for this... and well it would destroy standard ME combat if that's how it worked. Seriously broad sides for the win see it would be total length of all guns per salvo no just length of gun. So I've been doing all my estimates using cubic scaling from the Everest gun! (4,025,0002*20/2 is the power of that one for reference). This is not entirely sane, as well railguns/coilguns are linear accelerators so length is one of the key factors and well would scale linearly (other factors are part of it after a point there is all this interference stuff that'll pop up).
I yeah... not the best thing ever and it works okay as long as the power things was limited because you can go.. hey it needs power and all and you can kinda do some handwaving... but with arc-reactors that becomes a poor excuse.
Add on to that the price/power effects of PI improvements or just normal budget designs and well messy.
Edit: That's part of why I tossed in the ROF thing...
I look forward to any ideas you may have.
Actually for the sake of my own sanity... I really really want to change something... which is pretty much all of that stuff.
Warning Rant:
The railgun information as provided is NONSENSE
. Shot speed is one of the most important factors for a weapon in space warfare. It's one of the prime determiners of effective combat range and every bit of information provided about ME space warfare says 4,025km/s is too damn slow. A ship fighting "tens of thousands of km" away can see that and dodge. At a one shot per two second fire rate that is too damn slow to even do "box them in to hit tricks".Shots must go faster and with eezo it's pretty trivial to do so look at how little it takes in my example! For a ten times increase in the mass effect you can get one hundred times the speed, so fast the shot would normally be going faster than the speed of light*. That does cost more eezo, but well did the math for FTL cores to do those levels... Oh no our 1,000m railgun cost ~300 million more on and now can effectively work at light second ranges! That's to expensive on our 47 trillion credit ship make it go slower! Oh no it takes a fraction of the main drive core's power when were not using it another good reason not to do that!
*Because I don't like FTL guns for my own sanity it'll probably be caped at 0.999...9c, though being able to fire psuedo-FTL rounds would explain the rail/coilgun's battlefield primacy in ME. To bad the writers couldn't do kinematics
.Anyway does anyone see any issue with me making railgun rounds go faster and having the old numbers just be stats for the energy/impact effects? It makes my head hurt less.
Also this is not the secret to free energy planet killers... hell no.
/Rant
Okay rant over back to writing news segments!
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Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Blue nerd girl, hmm...
Oh, duh. Obviously Dr. Rana Thanoptis, asari neurospecialist.
500 = 0.5 * 153.76 * a
500 = 76.88a
a = 500/76.88
a = 6.5m/s/s
Missed that they kept their bows facing. Still even the codex says that those distances aren't really for fighting:
It's for sending powerful shots at the enemy in hopes of getting lucky and weakening them. Or at least distracting them while you charge in.
In practice you are actually fighting in the thousands of kilometers range:
at which point 4025 is fast enough to cover the distance in between 0.25 to 2.5 seconds depending upon the range.
That is far less dodge-able.
- Location
- United States
@Hoyr I agree that as is, the MACs shoot way to slowly to make sense when we have the Mass Effect. My issue with your solution is that it makes the primary reason that ships use the relatively bad (in comparison to our lasers) GARDIAN arrays (their accuracy) a moot point. 0.99..9 c is effectively 1.0 c with regards to enemy ability to dodge. I think making the shots faster (up to 10% c) would be fine but not any more than that.
I would be fine with keeping the old numbers for energy stats though.
I would be fine with keeping the old numbers for energy stats though.
So what happens if you shoot while going FTL? And does it differ if you fire a laser instead?
KleverKil'Vanya
Ortillery Operator
Puppies spill from the crack in spacetime and die swift agonizing deaths in the luke-warm depths of space while calculators burst into flames behind them.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
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Yeah!
Rana tyrannosaurus rex!
Where exactly do they burst through? Can we weaponize this to fill enemy ships with dying puppies while burning their computer systems?
And does it matter whether towards or away from the FTL acceleration?
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
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The QM smacks you.
Amberion
Mighty #9
Ship FTL is accomplished by reducing the mass of the ship such that the top end of the speed of light is extended. Essentially the curvature of space is distorted so that light can travel faster, but the ship is still travelling slower than light. What if, the railgun is still firing the 'bullet' at a given % of lightspeed(say 10%) but from an outsider looking at the action, it seems to be going at lightspeed or faster?@UberJJK oh yeah the formula for MAC fire power...
Well shameful admission time! I did the math out once for linear scaling for this... and well it would destroy standard ME combat if that's how it worked. Seriously broad sides for the win see it would be total length of all guns per salvo no just length of gun. So I've been doing all my estimates using cubic scaling from the Everest gun! (4,025,0002*20/2 is the power of that one for reference). This is not entirely sane, as well railguns/coilguns are linear accelerators so length is one of the key factors and well would scale linearly (other factors are part of it after a point there is all this interference stuff that'll pop up).
I yeah... not the best thing ever and it works okay as long as the power things was limited because you can go.. hey it needs power and all and you can kinda do some handwaving... but with arc-reactors that becomes a poor excuse.
Add on to that the price/power effects of PI improvements or just normal budget designs and well messy.
Edit: That's part of why I tossed in the ROF thing...
I look forward to any ideas you may have.
Actually for the sake of my own sanity... I really really want to change something... which is pretty much all of that stuff.
Warning Rant:
The railgun information as provided is NONSENSE
Shots must go faster and with eezo it's pretty trivial to do so look at how little it takes in my example! For a ten times increase in the mass effect you can get one hundred times the speed, so fast the shot would normally be going faster than the speed of light*. That does cost more eezo, but well did the math for FTL cores to do those levels... Oh no our 1,000m railgun cost ~300 million more on and now can effectively work at light second ranges! That's to expensive on our 47 trillion credit ship make it go slower! Oh no it takes a fraction of the main drive core's power when were not using it another good reason not to do that!
*Because I don't like FTL guns for my own sanity it'll probably be caped at 0.999...9c, though being able to fire psuedo-FTL rounds would explain the rail/coilgun's battlefield primacy in ME. To bad the writers couldn't do kinematics
Anyway does anyone see any issue with me making railgun rounds go faster and having the old numbers just be stats for the energy/impact effects? It makes my head hurt less.
Also this is not the secret to free energy planet killers... hell no.
/Rant
Okay rant over back to writing news segments!
TKB17
Playing with portals!
- Location
- Up! Down!
As soon as the round left the mass effect envelope created by the ship wouldn't physics force it back to .9% of C? And then, because FTL is point to point, the ship would slam into the round it just fired?
Getting lucky seems... unlikey? We're never really told how powerful the side thrusters on a ship are... but from what I'm reading the Liquid Oxygen-Hydrogen (Atomic Rockets example) thrusters mentioned in ME2 combined with a mass lighted ship can do some pretty mean dodging. The chance of hitting at that range looks to be infinitesimally small from random walk evasion alone! Not from aiming errors, not from dodging, but from the enemy randomly thrusting around sideways. It's basically zero you don't get lucky at those ranges with one short per two seconds, you get miracles.
Depends on sideways acceleration... I tend to interpret it as high thanks to mass effect technology 6,400m/s2 of acceleration seems easily doable compared to the ridiculous forward thrusters, and with that a dreadnought can dodge a shot with 0.25s warning. (Note repulsors screw this up to)
Look at 5,000km a random walk requires ~2,600m/s^2 to cause accuracy to drop to <1% At 15,000km its 290m/s^2. 26m/s^2 at 50,000km. I guess every one could be designing their ships wrong...
Look even if 4,025km/s is fast enough for the given ranges (an I don't think it is with the ridiculous acceleration ME ships get), going faster should be trivial and it has every advantage. Which is my core problem really.
You shoot yourself in the face. Shot leaves field, goes sub C ship catches up and gets hit.
A laser it doesn't actually do much it'll ride the front of the light bubble and probably get shifted up or down in frequency depending (I'm not inclined to figure out exactly the result is). Once the ship stops the laser will continue on. Of course the beam was spreading the whole time so usefulness may very.
So a thing going faster than "normal" C that loses it's ME field will catastrophically decelerate to below C or so says ME canon. So the shot will either decelerate to C or explode or something like that once the ME field is exited or the lingering field* fades depending on how you interpret that. If the ship is following and going over "normal" C itself it'll be shooting itself in the face.
*Lingering fields would be how you make FTL guns... the Blackstorm and some other things implies this is a thing... I mostly like avoiding FTL weapons in general. Of course if everyone has them...
Edit: typos and stuff
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Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Isn't heat the primary limiter on pretty much everything in ME?
"Not melting the gun and everything around it (aka, the ship and crew)" would probably be the big velocity and/or RoF limiter, no? In fact, it would even limit the Weight of fire a ship could put out given that the ship as a whole can only take so much heat, and more/bigger guns make more of it.
I mean, i know very little about this kind of thing, but what i do know tells me this would at least be a factor.
"Not melting the gun and everything around it (aka, the ship and crew)" would probably be the big velocity and/or RoF limiter, no? In fact, it would even limit the Weight of fire a ship could put out given that the ship as a whole can only take so much heat, and more/bigger guns make more of it.
I mean, i know very little about this kind of thing, but what i do know tells me this would at least be a factor.
Amberion
Mighty #9
Yeah if I was making an FTL kinetic weapon, with my understanding of ME tech, I'd make it more like a torpedo than a bullet, with its own FTL drive(a simple one, little more than a bit of eezo with an elecrical generator to keep a basic field stable for a second or so).
The wiki has some info on what happens when a field collapses. The ship immediately decelerates to STL speeds amid a cloud of lethal 'Cherenkov radiation', whatever that is.
It's explicitely stated to be exp(const*mass) in the codex
L is presumably proportionate to the mass of the ship. Why L^3 when we know it's exp(const*M)?
Amberion
Mighty #9
I didn't mean the ship was travelling at FTL when the bullet was fired. That'd be silly. I meant that the mass accelerator would operate under the same principles.
While heat would be an issue if we wanted to make the round go that fast the normal way... Mass effect means we can cheat! For less effort than it takes to go FTL (and ships go FTL for hours so heats not the issue) you can do all kinds of fun things with the MAC weapons. Like near C or FTL shots... it's messy, like any time a nerd gets to have fun min-maxing Sci-fi
I mostly did that because otherwise ship costs would grow out of control... and then I used the price formula to do the power formula. If some one wants to present a formula that offer sane results below about 1,000m ships and then normally impractical for up to 2,000m with a starting point of 135m for 60 billion credits I can make a power formula for that to. I just don't want to make dreadnoughts too expensive and my inventiveness for formulas ran flat, so I mentally hand waved and said that the effect of mass was close to linear for the range I cared about.
Edit:
I know. Problem is the text as is is nonsense too. You can store basically infinite energy in a moving object (yeah sure it may or may not turn into a black hole but that's not important).
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Ooooor ... you do a broadside firing run as you zip past perpendicular to the path of your bullets
Actually that sounds incredibly useful for an alpha strike: charge at the enemy and just keep pumping more laser into your light bubble the entire way.
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- United States
Probably because it is easier to determine length then mass (we can be a little lazy and still get approximate results). If we assume constant LxWxH ratios, then we would be fine. It would get pretty annoying to figure out the average density of the entire ship when we really dont need to.
See that assumes that you can use the core for mass reduction during combat. If you remove that capability, such as reserving it for retreats or simply having enough problems as to make it not worth while, then dodging stops being a problem.
2m Repulsor gives 200MN and a mass of 8,000kg, add in the 5,600GW Arc Reactor's mass of 1,120kg and you get a total of 9,120kg. This gives an acceleration of 21,929.8m/s/s.
There are 7,200 seconds in two hours so that gives ~157,894,737m/s or approximately 52.6% the speed of light.
Of course given the immense speed it would actually be slower since the pair's mass would increase due to the massive amounts of kinetic energy involved. IE: Relativity!