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Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

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Hoyr said:
Eezo is used to produce an artificial gravity effect. Don't ask how, either there is some fancy way to do this or eezo can make a frigate have the same mass as the Earth... right.
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I like to think it creates pseudo gravity along a vector that affects only a certain area, so garvity plates can pull with a 1G force but only above them and only at a certain distance, once past it you are not affected by it.

Guns get the same treatement only inside the barrel thus only the bullet is subjected to multiple Gs of acceleration while in the barrel. It will stop being affected once out but it still retains said acceleration it had even if it escaped the gravity effect that is not gravity.

So disruptor torpedoes have to be torpedoes and not warhead rounds because they need a Eezo core to create mass effect/ pseudo gravity fluctuations. If it would just generate normal gravity and then the reverse it would just not work, but if it can create a pseudo gravity effect on n vectors arbitrarily it can suddenly rip shields and armor apart like no ones business by aping a drill or wood chipper or circular power saw or a combo of all of the above made of gravity forces.

The pseudo gravity /mass effect does not obey our current laws of physics so i will not touch it more in depth because there is no point to it. Its a plot device, to make guns hit as hard as they need to hit for the plot, make ships go as fast and as comfortable as they need to and protect people as much as they need to from kinetic impact. Attaching hard numbers to them is a bad idea.

This allows the game creators and of course the GM to attribute whatever values they feel comfortable with and if needed revise them whenever they feel the need to, because some application or improvements or whatever changed. Think heatshink and termal clips only less retarded (why not have both?).
 
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Hazard said:
Actually, presuming a horizontal square source just below the deck plating (I know, I know, lazy) the mass you need to project for 1 gravity of acceleration would be rather substantially less than the Earth, as the Earth's centre of mass and gravity is about 6400 kilometers.
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F = G * m1 * m2 / r^2

Let's say we're talking a 75kg human and the grav plate is 1cm under the floor.

735.75 = 0.00000000006674 * 75 * m2 / 0.01^2
735.75 = 0.0000000050055 * m2 / 0.0001
735.75 * 0.0001 = 0.0000000050055 * m2
0.073575 = 0.0000000050055 * m2
m2 = 0.073575/0.0000000050055
m2 = ~14,698,831kg


Now that certainly isn't an impossible number but we're still talking something like 3x the ship's entire mass.

That's not even taking into account the tidal forces considering that at head height gravity would be 25 millinewtons!
 
Do not equate mass effect with regular gravity. Consider it applying uniform pseudo gravity on a finite space along a vector. Say, 3 or 4 meters of a uniform 1 G pull. That is what the developers wanted and that is what they got and represented.

It probably has a very low power requirement. Lower than that of a ME gun and far less complicated. The Gun probably has many multiples of G pull but only inside the barrel going outwards.

And consider that it should be able to do a push just as easily. The requirements to make it a bigger uniform push or pull is more Eezo and more power, and more complex forms than a plane if you want something of a more complex application of mass effect/highly malleable pseudo gravity that has only a passing resemblance to gravity.
 
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Hazard said:
Actually, presuming a horizontal square source just below the deck plating (I know, I know, lazy) the mass you need to project for 1 gravity of acceleration would be rather substantially less than the Earth, as the Earth's centre of mass and gravity is about 6400 kilometers.
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True... 146836717570kg vs 5.972 × 10^24 kg is an improvement... it's still a lot ~10,000 times the estimated ship mass of a 100m frigate

UberJJK said:
Let's say we're talking a 75kg human and the grav plate is 1cm under the floor.

735.75 = 0.00000000006674 * 75 * m2 / 0.01^2
735.75 = 0.0000000050055 * m2 / 0.0001
735.75 * 0.0001 = 0.0000000050055 * m2
0.073575 = 0.0000000050055 * m2
m2 = 0.073575/0.0000000050055
m2 = ~14,698,831kg
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R should be center of mass to center of mass so about a meter not 1 cm. For lazy calculations, aka introductory physics land where you have frictionless spherical cows and stuff.

Also you can just drop the person's mass from the equation and solve for 9.8 (one g)

UberJJK said:
That's not even taking into account the tidal forces considering that at head height gravity would be 25 millinewtons!
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Actually that's the real problem gravitational gradient is going to be insane...

So in conclusion it probably is related to the repulsion effect shields have because that doesn't depend on mass save for the projectile's mass.

remulian said:
Do not equate mass effect with regular gravity. Consider it applying uniform pseudo gravity on a finite space along a vector. Say, 3 or 4 meters of a uniform 1 G pull. That is what the developers wanted and that is what they got and represented.
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Mass effect seems able to do both... which can be confusing as hell. It can produce force fields (in the literal sense) and effect the mass of objects, thus their gravitational force.
 
Don't forget C-shift (where C changes with mass). I am relatively sure (make it 100% sure), but not ready to write it mathematically, that localized change of C, along with the change of mass, would affect gravity.
 
... Actually, another possibility. What if instead of artificial gravity fields interacting in the exact same way as gravity fields do normally they act like electrical field does on charged particles? IIRC this would mean that between the anode and the kathode equivalent there would be a field gravitationally active particles all moving in the same direction and at the same speed relative to their mass and 'charge' (given the nature of gravity the ratio of mass to charge would be effectively one to one for all particles).

Likewise could it be possible that these artificial gravity systems become less cost effective with distance and intervening mass, which would explain why the Normandy (with its layout taking advantage of the length of the ship to stuff as many things possible onto as few decks as possible) has artificial gravity systems, while the much more massive cruisers and dreadnoughts don't.
 
Hazard said:
... Actually, another possibility. What if instead of artificial gravity fields interacting in the exact same way as gravity fields do normally they act like electrical field does on charged particles? IIRC this would mean that between the anode and the kathode equivalent there would be a field gravitationally active particles all moving in the same direction and at the same speed relative to their mass and 'charge' (given the nature of gravity the ratio of mass to charge would be effectively one to one for all particles).

Likewise could it be possible that these artificial gravity systems become less cost effective with distance and intervening mass, which would explain why the Normandy (with its layout taking advantage of the length of the ship to stuff as many things possible onto as few decks as possible) has artificial gravity systems, while the much more massive cruisers and dreadnoughts don't.
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This would be a completely new and separate physical effect from what is normally observed with eezo, and thus runs afoul of Occam's Razor.

Really, my best guess is that somewhere between mass lightening field which is applied to the whole ship, and increases C, and mass increasing field applied to grav plates, which decrees es C, the difference between Cs and relative masses and other messed up constants is high enough to simulate normal gravity. I don't know NEARLY enough about general relativity to start writing this out, but to me it looks like the simplest solution.
 
If you are taking about speed of light... it's weird. It is completely constant in every inertial reference frame. Once a reference frame starts accelerating... then things get even stranger.
 
Hoyr said:
*Snicker* Try 10,000 (and more actually) times that much accleration :).
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Darn, wonder where I went wrong. Probably got confused about the square or something.
Hoyr said:
Assuming the designs use the same tech scaling by volume might be an okay lazy short hand, but you've go all sorts of complicated things I'm not going to touch going on in a laser.
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Okay. Where it was mentioned that secondary MAC's where typically broadside mounted made me think it was a very outdated idea.

I started trying to solve this thinking about the Thalanx cannon. I assumed that since its accelerated in a helix, by changing the point the shot is released you could change the direction it fired it. However then I realised that, this solution is out of our desired tech path.

My solution was that by using mirrors (or mass effect field as it's already been noted that they can make perfect reflectors in the energy destroyer.) we could possibly redirect all the power from the generator/s to any turret on the frame of the ship, this could allow us to present our full firepower in any direction at any time, and eliminate blindspots. If it's necessary to use two or more turrets at once a diffraction grid could be used to split the beam.
 
AbZHz101 said:
If you are taking about speed of light... it's weird. It is completely constant in every inertial reference frame. Once a reference frame starts accelerating... then things get even stranger.
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In real life C, as in the speed of light in vacuum, is an invariant across all coordinate systems. In Mass Effect universe, mass effect fields actually measurably change X locally. They alter the fundamental constant. By many orders of magnitude. As in, at the highest canon field at enthalpy, local C would have been as low as 3 kilometers per second or so.

I tried explaining it with the intrinsic energy being an invariantover mass effect field changes.
 
Yog said:
In real life C, as in the speed of light in vacuum, is an invariant across all coordinate systems. In Mass Effect universe, mass effect fields actually measurably change X locally. They alter the fundamental constant. By many orders of magnitude. As in, at the highest canon field at enthalpy, local C would have been as low as 3 kilometers per second or so.

I tried explaining it with the intrinsic energy being an invariantover mass effect field changes.
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Or perhaps those effect fields simply create accelerating reference frames. The same kind that allow someone to go from 84 to 16.
 
AbZHz101 said:
Or perhaps those effect fields simply create accelerating reference frames. The same kind that allow someone to go from 84 to 16.
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I don't understand what you mean.

A person moving at .9 c relative to a stationary observer could shoot two lasers, one straight ahead and one behind. Newtonian physics would predict that the stationary observer witnesses the forward laser traveling at 1.9 c backwards one travelling at -0.1 c (using velocities here, negative is to distinguish the direction). However in reality the stationary observer witnesses both lasers traveling at c (or -c). These apparently irreconcilable differences are what leads Special Relativity to predict time dilations.
The acceleration of a reference frame wouldn't affect the observed speed of light.
 
Dark as Silver said:
I don't understand what you mean.

A person moving at .9 c relative to a stationary observer could shoot two lasers, one straight ahead and one behind. Newtonian physics would predict that the stationary observer witnesses the forward laser traveling at 1.9 c backwards one travelling at -0.1 c (using velocities here, negative is to distinguish the direction). However in reality the stationary observer witnesses both lasers traveling at c (or -c). These apparently irreconcilable differences are what leads Special Relativity to predict time dilations.
The acceleration of a reference frame wouldn't affect the observed speed of light.
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It has to do with the Twin Paradox.

Here it helps to have three reference frames. Stationary(A), leaving (B), and arriving(C).

Using that standard methods with .4c speed, 50 Light Year distance, we know that the moving twin upon return would be 60, while the stationary twin would be 100.

At the half way point, the moving twin is 30 and the stationary twin is 16 in B and 84 in C.

Most people only care about going from B ->C, as that's the way where the two timelines can reconnect. But it is just as valid to go from C ->B, in which case at the half way point the stationary Twin goes from 84 to 16.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Darn, wonder where I went wrong. Probably got confused about the square or something.
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Well I don't know about things breaking (I assume you're right). I was talking about using a value 10,000 times larger for acceleration because that's about how fast ME ships go when getting up to the speed of light based on some equations.

I have a fancy spreadsheet with lots of these formulas in them. A ship doing a two day (well 50 hours) trip were it acts as though it goes 15ly/day and accelerates for half the trip and decelerates for the other half (thus giving maximum distance covered). Would need to have an effective acceleration of 36,499,731.76m/s2​

Dark as Silver said:
My solution was that by using mirrors (or mass effect field as it's already been noted that they can make perfect reflectors in the energy destroyer.) we could possibly redirect all the power from the generator/s to any turret on the frame of the ship, this could allow us to present our full firepower in any direction at any time, and eliminate blindspots. If it's necessary to use two or more turrets at once a diffraction grid could be used to split the beam.
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I assume that's mostly done as is. Just that they use what ever mirror and lens tech they have instead of dark energy lensing/mirrors. Of course physical engineering limits apply. You need the laser "pipes" to move the beam around of course and those take up space.
 
Hoyr said:
[X][Personal] Continue Peak Human Treatment (Full Captain America Upgrade, Part 1/5 Done), maybe chosen twice
-[X] More trying to be a social ghost in the machine. Maybe set up an online gaming account under a pseudonym?
You play various online games under the internet handle of Agatha22, meaning new people and interacting with a few different online communities. Most of the game you play tend to be games that you can easily drop into an out of.

"Okay, now I know that shouldn't be possible. No one's that quick." the Turian sniper says, "BestShot74" is indeed a very good shot.

"Neural Interface," you say as your digital avatar points to her head, "Kinda can't use my hands right now."

"Well then, I'm glad you were on my team. Hmm... looks like I have to go and be a productive member of society. See you around the extranet Agatha22."
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BestShot74
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Garrus, is that you? :p
 
well we don't know what age turians have to join the military or what age they have their age of majority set at. "productive member of society" could also mean going to school
 
TheEyes said:
I was thinking so myself, although at this point in the timeline Garrus is 17, so it's actually fairly unlikely that he's a "productive member of society" yet. :)
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Darkcrest said:
well we don't know what age turians have to join the military or what age they have their age of majority set at. "productive member of society" could also mean going to school
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Turians begin serving their communities in some fashion at the age of 15 according to lore. So Garrus would have probably passed boot camp and is probably involved in a work-study, apprenticeship program, or such thing, possibly going to school as well depending.
 
AbZHz101 said:
Or perhaps those effect fields simply create accelerating reference frames. The same kind that allow someone to go from 84 to 16.
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AbZHz101 said:
It has to do with the Twin Paradox.

Here it helps to have three reference frames. Stationary(A), leaving (B), and arriving(C).

Using that standard methods with .4c speed, 50 Light Year distance, we know that the moving twin upon return would be 60, while the stationary twin would be 100.

At the half way point, the moving twin is 30 and the stationary twin is 16 in B and 84 in C.

Most people only care about going from B ->C, as that's the way where the two timelines can reconnect. But it is just as valid to go from C ->B, in which case at the half way point the stationary Twin goes from 84 to 16.
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What are you talking about? C is constant in real life, and is an invariant over lorentz transformations. Show me equations you are using. Also, mass effect fields do mess with C, allowing for FTL (because in the ship's reference frame it moves slower than the local C).
 
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