Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

May I ask why weapon mods? If we want weapons, we should spend on lasers, I think. Or finally start researching invisible man. I get the appeal and synergy with hyper-modularity, but I'm really not sure why we would want weapon mods at this time.

Mostly because I was looking for something that would fit Hwan's specialty of "Improving existing ME setting technology". Weapons mods fit that description, were low RP, and best of all were something he and his team had already been working on so they would be familiar and likely have a moral boost.

The reason I went for a separate Tech rather then just dumping their RP into Blackboxing was because that research is so valuable to critical to our company going forwards that I don't want to risk it, or data on it, leaving PI HQ where Revy can watch over it.

We already have people like the STG trying to crack our earlier BB/FRM after all. Bribing someone on Hwan's team would be a lot easier then one of the people here on Mindoir.


Although...

@Hoyr would Miniaturized Energy Weapons count for his specialty?
 
May I ask why weapon mods? If we want weapons, we should spend on lasers, I think. Or finally start researching invisible man. I get the appeal and synergy with hyper-modularity, but I'm really not sure why we would want weapon mods at this time. Otherwise, I like your plan. Well, I like all of the plans, really.

EDIT: Also, about Cabiras. We should find a retired Asari admiral or someone similar ( a krogan from way before who led fleets against Rachni, or a turian general willing to work for someone other than the government; hell, even a succesful batarian pirate lord) with lots of experience with space combat, but out of public's eyes. Then we will give them the exercise of creating military doctrine based on Cabira-type ships. How they can be applied, etc.

Wouldn't it be best to give that job to Systems Alliance Admirals? I'm pretty sure whoever is asked to come up with tactics for this 'hypothetical' terrifying supership is going to go 'Is PI, the company which is already releasing revolutionary technology, going to build this?'.

It wouldn't be too surprising for someone like that to mention 'PI might be thinking of releasing a stealthed Dreadnought-killer' to their people.
 
Wouldn't it be best to give that job to Systems Alliance Admirals? I'm pretty sure whoever is asked to come up with tactics for this 'hypothetical' terrifying supership is going to go 'Is PI, the company which is already releasing revolutionary technology, going to build this?'.

It wouldn't be too surprising for someone like that to mention 'PI might be thinking of releasing a stealthed Dreadnought-killer' to their people.
I don't have confidence in Alliance generals. They have zero real life experience in large scale space battles against military (not pirates). Well, ok, they have experience of ONE battle. But that's all. There probably were a lot of wargames and such, but still.
 
I'm just gonna be a shameless plug right now and advocate building my own Sagittarius first instead of some sort of super frigate. Partially because it would help to get our feet wet first with something simple first and partially because I think it's really not the time to release some sort of super frigate that counters cruisers.
 
I don't have confidence in Alliance generals. They have zero real life experience in large scale space battles against military (not pirates). Well, ok, they have experience of ONE battle. But that's all. There probably were a lot of wargames and such, but still.

They do however have experience in applying revolutionary new ships, tactics and doctrines to very good effect in universe, such as carriers and their habits of basing fleets at Relays rather than planets .
So while they may not have much traditional experience they do seem to have a knack for novel and effective uses of technology, just the thing needed for applying the Cabira which will likely end up being a repeat of the 20th century for heavy battleships.
 
AA frigate anyone? I think a nice multi-mission ship would be much more useful than some sort of super frigate.
 
... Why not hire people from varying backgrounds to work together on this?
Grab a couple old hands from the established Citadel races, grab some scruffy-types (pirates, smugglers, mercs, whatever) from the Terminus, grab some Alliance generals, ask Gaven Dor if he knows any krogans that would be useful to include, and then stick 'em all together and see what they come up with.
 
I'm just gonna be a shameless plug right now and advocate building my own Sagittarius first instead of some sort of super frigate. Partially because it would help to get our feet wet first with something simple first and partially because I think it's really not the time to release some sort of super frigate that counters cruisers.
With the huge credit and production cost associated with a 200+m frigate, we're going to need a space factory III to build more than a small handful per quarter. By the time we get one of those online, we'll have enough techs researched that we may as well just build the Cabira and not bother with the baby steps.

So it's not a bad idea, but it doesn't fit with our timeline. We may want to ape some of your ideas for the space yacht/lab, though.
 
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With the huge credit and production cost associated with a 200+m frigate, we're going to need a space factory III to build more than a small handful power quarter. By the time we get one of those online, we'll have enough techs researched that we may as well just build the Cabira and not bother with the baby steps.

So it's not a bad idea, but it doesn't fit with our timeline. We may want to ape some of your ideas for the space yacht/lab, though.
The 200m frigate is the Relentless class destroyer. I mean the 100m Sagittarius class AA frigate. It used to be the Storm class until I actually put some more effort into it.
 
@Hoyr would Miniaturized Energy Weapons count for his specialty?

Eh while I can see how one could argue the connection I'm leaning toward no, The magnitude of the change the technology provides is a bit beyond the nature of the skill I intended to convey.

Miniaturized Energy Weapons isn't an improvement its a revolution.

I'll repeat my initial list of tech his specialty would apply to:

Adrenal Implant
Optical Computing
5 Meter Mech
Medium Armor
Frigates
Light Crusiers
Heavy Crusiers
Dreadnaughts
Very Large Space Stations (New tech)
200m/500m/800m/1000m MAC (Four new techs)
Ammo/Weapon Mod techs (IDK about 6 techs all told?)
Comm-Buoy Construction
Antimatter Generation

That's not exclusive, and I didn't update it much, but that's the sort of idea I'm trying to convey. The Short version is if it existed in the ME games and there's a tech for making a PI version it probably counts.
 
Haven't watched this quest in a long time. Kind of regretting that now. Lots of interesting stuff.

In any case, a suggestion for research, even if it's unlikely to win this late in the game:

Waterloo Class Frigate Block 3 Upgrade (50 RP)
Huai-Hai Class Frigate Block 6 Upgrade (50 RP)

Gigawatt Range Lasers [400]
Light Cruisers (<500m) [600]
Mk II Suit [500]

Miniaturized Energy Weapons [400]

Not quite sure how the various modifiers for research rolls are calculated, to be perfectly honest, most of the research plans seem built around ~2000 research, so this should be doable. The ship upgrade contracts sound both lucrative and worthwhile, especially with Gigawatt range lasers in the mix. As for the rest, this quest has had over 50 updates from three different authors, and Revy still hasn't researched the Mk II. Fixing that might be nice, especially if there's another attack or her or her facilities at some point.
 
Not quite sure how the various modifiers for research rolls are calculated, to be perfectly honest, most of the research plans seem built around ~2000 research, so this should be doable. The ship upgrade contracts sound both lucrative and worthwhile, especially with Gigawatt range lasers in the mix. As for the rest, this quest has had over 50 updates from three different authors, and Revy still hasn't researched the Mk II. Fixing that might be nice, especially if there's another attack or her or her facilities at some point.

I think some people are after researching laser weapons so they can get 'miniturised laser weapons' which would allow them to outfit the Mk.2 with them.

Also trying to set up stuff for a super frigate/lab/personal yacht because currently the weakest point that anyone can attack Revy at is when she is travelling towards a Relay, intercepting her with a frigate hitsquad like before.

...Which reminds me, we still need to research Arc Reactor Mk 2 for Iron Man Mk 2, don't we?
 
...Which reminds me, we still need to research Arc Reactor Mk 2 for Iron Man Mk 2, don't we?
Nope.
Arc Reactor Mk. 2 is needed for: Arc Reactor Mk. 3, Thermal Compensator, Mark 3 Suit.
Arc Reactor Mk. 3 is needed for: Eezo Production.
Mark 2 Suit requires: Repulsors (done), Mark 1.5 Suit (done), Advanced Materials (done), investing 500 RP (not done)./
 
Not quite sure how the various modifiers for research rolls are calculated, to be perfectly honest
We have a tech sheet, with basic dice mods set up; effectively without invoking Gaver Dor's bonus or Captain Hwan's we can get ~1888 RPs with 95% probability. Gaver Dor gets +5d10 when working with his techs only, and Captain Hwan gets an extra 5% on anything he manages (boosting the Elysium expansion from 15% to 20% productivity) when "improving existing ME tech". If you want to play around with allocations for a long-term game plan that's a good place to do it.

The biggest flaw I see with your tech plan is that you're not putting any points into Flawless BB, or AI License Prep, critical techs that we need ASAP. We do have to put some amount of points into Flawless BB this quarter if we want it to be done in the next 3 quarters, which is the minimum practical amount of time it can possibly take. I mean, we could do it in 2, but we'd have to devote everything we have to it, and we'd skip out on AI License Prep and its extremely important anti-AI protections for another 2 quarters if we do. You're also doing Gigawatt Energy Weapons before doing Flawless BB, and that's a bad idea: Gigawatt lasers are potential ecosystem-killers, and we do not want them ever, ever, ever falling into the wrong hands.

And frankly, the Mark II is just not all that high on our critical research list. The base invasion that we faced earlier had two easy fixes:

1) Less crappy dice rolls (seriously, those were awful), or
2) Missile spam, either from Tigers or Sagittarius drones, which we can build and deploy this quarter for no additional RP investment.

A Mark II suit, in contrast, wouldn't have actually helped us all that much. The suit itself would let us use biotics alongside our tech, plus let us use Repulsors as weapons and maybe allow us to hot-swap our weapons thanks to Hyper-modularity, but really not much more than that; the invasion would have largely played out the same, even with a Mark II suit.

No, our biggest vulnerability right now, aside from the dice randomly screwing us over, is the "space AK-47 ambush" that we faced in Memento Mori. @UberJJK and @Sylvire seem to think we can counter those with Disrupter torps fired from Gladius fighters... except that Disrupter Torps are canonically slow to accelerate, and exist to fight off large capital ships where economies of scale come into play, rather than tangling with smaller frigates. In fact, in ME frigates exist specifically to counter Disrupter-torp firing starfighters, as they are the smallest ship that can deploy a usable GARDIAN system. It's meant to be a sort of rock-paper-scissors duel, with fighter swarms > capital ships > frigates > fighters.

Anti-starship missiles short-circuits that dynamic by swapping out slow Disrupter-torps for faster Super-Piliums, which we can screen from GARDIAN systems using Hydra cluster-missles, eliminating the threat for the moment while we spend the next two years developing our stealthed GRASER-ships, which themselves are a stepping stone to MACs that can fire black holes, thanks to the totally OP combination of Captain Hwan's ship-scale weapon/ammo mods and Conrad's Black F*cking Gun. We can get all of that done by ~mid-late 2176, at which point we can settle into building mega-Dreadnought versions of those same techs, and filling out the rest of our tech tree while we search for even more broken combos, maybe throw a few thousand RPs into Time is an Illusion or Phasing techs.

...You know, it just occurred to me that my vote is assuming that Captain Hwan's bonus applies to anti-starship missiles (they are, after all, improvements to the Pilium, which has been an ME tech for over a year now! :D), and I swear I remember getting that cleared by @Hoyr, but now I can't find the post that confirmed it. So I need to ask: @Hoyr, does Captain Hwan's bonus apply to anti-starship missiles?

The 200m frigate is the Relentless class destroyer. I mean the 100m Sagittarius class AA frigate. It used to be the Storm class until I actually put some more effort into it.
Still, we won't have the spare production capacity until the Cabira is ready to go anyway. We'll have a Starship-specialized Space Factory I ready in 2174-Q2; that'll be our only shipyard until 2175-Q3 when the Shipyard III we will (hopefully) be able to begin in 2174-Q3 is completed. That Shipyard I will be tied up building our space yacht for 2174-Q2, and after that I'm fairly certain our best margin is going to be in building multi-core eezo drive equipped freighters, which we'll need for our eezo asteroid-mining strategy and our moving beyond the reach of the Relay network strategy. By the time the Shipyard III completes we'll have all the techs necessary for the Cabira completed, with the possible exception (for one quarter anyway) of TIR shielding/TIR stealth.
what about the Sagittarius class frigate and the Onager? Do those seem like decent ideas?
The Onager is pretty cool... except that with the Tiger and its basically-free orbital insertion abilities we can do Rods from God fairly easily. In the face of that, does a giant Howitzer or any lesser form of over-the-horizon bombardment even make sense on a strategic level anymore?

lets say 500,000cr per person per year in hard cash. That's 750,000cr total per person per year which means it is 15,000,000cr for the entire team for a year and 3,750,000 per quarter.

Voted update:
That adds an additional 78.75m to our expenses.
That'll certainly get us noticed by ex-Special Forces, maybe even ones with previous PMC experience so we can get away with an extremely abbreviated training schedule, but note that means that the kinds of jobs we'll need to get for these people are going to involve heavy combat; there's no way anyone's going to pay ~600,000 credits per week for a single 20-man team:

15,000,000 credits/yr
÷ 52 (weeks/yr)
÷ 0.5 (50% off-contract time for our teams for transportation, medical, suit repair, psych leave, etc)
== 576,923 credits per week per team break-even point

-for anything other than heavy combat tours deep in enemy territory. Maybe we should consider two tiers of mercs: one at the 3.75 million/quarter level, and one at the 1.05 million/quarter level for convoy/bodyguarding duty (that gives us a still high but less daunting 161,538 ==> 175K/week/team break-even point.

So, still want to send these guys out without Tigers or drone backup... or for that matter Legionaries, since even your plan doesn't even outfit all 500 of your super-expensive, super-elite troops with powered armor? That's the other reason I want to spend at least a full quarter training the troops; even with your Legionary-heavy production schedule we can't put all these guys into a Legionary this quarter anyway, so we might as well spend the quarter training them for when we can properly outfit them with Legionaries, Tigers, and a full complement of drones (Accipiters, Sagittarius, and Hastati).
 
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We have a tech sheet, with basic dice mods set up; effectively without invoking Gaver Dor's bonus or Captain Hwan's we can get ~1888 RPs with 95% probability. Gaver Dor gets +5d10 when working with his techs only, and Captain Hwan gets an extra 5% on anything he manages (boosting the Elysium expansion from 15% to 20% productivity) when "improving existing ME tech". If you want to play around with allocations for a long-term game plan that's a good place to do it.

The biggest flaw I see with your tech plan is that you're not putting any points into Flawless BB, or AI License Prep, critical techs that we need ASAP. We do have to put some amount of points into Flawless BB this quarter if we want it to be done in the next 3 quarters, which is the minimum practical amount of time it can possibly take. I mean, we could do it in 2, but we'd have to devote everything we have to it, and we'd skip out on AI License Prep and its extremely important anti-AI protections for another 2 quarters if we do. You're also doing Gigawatt Energy Weapons before doing Flawless BB, and that's a bad idea: Gigawatt lasers are potential ecosystem-killers, and we do not want them ever, ever, ever falling into the wrong hands.
Why? I mean, AI and blackboxing are nice, but they aren't immediately necessary. You already have Tier II Blackboxing, and that will buy you some time. And besides, long term the stuff you have out now proliferating is a feature, not a bug- a strong galaxy is better against Reapers, and you'll be developing better stuff later anyway, so it's not going to hurt to put Blackboxing back a little. Reverse engineering takes time, and by the time they have knockoffs of your old stuff, you'll have newer, shinier stuff that they can't reverse engineer.

As for AI, there's no real immediate need for it. It'll provide some nice bonuses to research to be sure, but so will building new labs and hiring more people.

And frankly, the Mark II is just not all that high on our critical research list. The base invasion that we faced earlier had two easy fixes:

1) Less crappy dice rolls (seriously, those were awful), or
2) Missile spam, either from Tigers or Sagittarius drones, which we can build and deploy this quarter for no additional RP investment.

A Mark II suit, in contrast, wouldn't have actually helped us all that much. The suit itself would let us use biotics alongside our tech, plus let us use Repulsors as weapons and maybe allow us to hot-swap our weapons thanks to Hyper-modularity, but really not much more than that; the invasion would have largely played out the same, even with a Mark II suit.
It's a SSTO Power Armor. That's helpful for all sorts of situations, most especially if you do get attacked in space- a MKII with appropriate tactics and ECM works as both an emergency escape pod and a method to board and seize control of an enemy ship. And with Miniaturized lasers, it can make mincemeat out of anything that relies on barriers for defense.

No, our biggest vulnerability right now, aside from the dice randomly screwing us over, is the "space AK-47 ambush" that we faced in Memento Mori. @UberJJK and @Sylvire seem to think we can counter those with Disrupter torps fired from Gladius fighters... except that Disrupter Torps are canonically slow to accelerate, and exist to fight off large capital ships where economies of scale come into play,rather than smaller frigates. In fact, in ME frigates exist specifically to counter Disrupter-torp firing starfighters, as they are the smallest ship that can deploy a usable GARDIAN system. It's meant to be a sort of rock-paper-scissors deal, with fighters>capital ships>frigates>fighters.

Anti-starship missiles short-circuits that dynamic by swapping out slow Disrupter-torps for faster Super-Piliums, which we can screen from GARDIAN systems using Hydra cluster-missles, eliminating the threat for the moment while we spend the next two years developing our stealthed GRASER-ships, which themselves are a stepping stone to MACs that can fire black holes, thanks to the totally OP combination of Captain Hwan's ship-scale weapon mods and Conrad's Black F*cking Gun.

...You know, it just occurred to me that my vote is assuming that Captain Hwan's bonus applies to anti-starship missiles (they are, after all, improvements to the Pilium, which has been an ME tech for over a year now! :D), and I swear I remember getting that cleared by @Hoyr, but now I can't find the post that confirmed it. So I need to ask: @Hoyr, does Captain Hwan's bonus apply to anti-starship missiles?
I figured that upgrading the Alliance Frigates to Starktech Standards and arming them with Gigawatt range lasers would be sufficient for security in Space. For that matter, With GW range lasers, there's no reason not to just buy a Frigate (probably justifying it as a testbed for new technologies) and use it as a taxi.

For that matter, you could probably do that without the Lasers. Hackett wants his ships upgraded after all, and purchasing a recently decommissioned or mothballed ship is probably doable.
 
As for AI, there's no real immediate need for it. It'll provide some nice bonuses to research to be sure, but so will building new labs and hiring more people.
Actually making AIs is way down the road. We want AI Licensing Preparation because it's all about making sure that an AI can't hack our systems - and, by extension, neither can anybody else.

Also, proliferation of planet-killing tech is a bad idea. Just... No.
 
Hmm. We should develop an equivalent of AEGIS for the system's alliance.

Also:



Let's do it. Let's burn the world.

From the earth, to the sky, all the way out to the horizon and beyond shall stretch a shimmering sea, an ocean, of fire.

All In an instant, all creation beneath the starry sky shall be eradicated. And there will be thunder. There will be light.

And then.

. . .

There will be silence.
 
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Actually making AIs is way down the road. We want AI Licensing Preparation because it's all about making sure that an AI can't hack our systems - and, by extension, neither can anybody else.
So will pulling the plug. And seriously, I doubt AI Prep will stop a Reaper if they really want access.

Also, proliferation of planet-killing tech is a bad idea. Just... No.
....when did Revy get Planet killing tech?

Wait, that's a stupid question. It was Yog, wasn't it? It's always Yog when it comes to munchkining this sort of thing.
 
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We're trying to get the galaxy to not think we're evil, right? Let's develop planet killing tech. I wanna see how big a negative modifier we can stack onto the former roll.
 
Gigawatt Lasers are apparently planet killing tech hence the need for Flawless BB FIRST
Really? Can you link the math on that? Because a Gigajoule/s isn't really planet killing unless you go at it for a while. Honestly, throwing a planet killing asteroid at the world would probably be faster, and everyone can already do that with a little time and some fusion torches.
 
So will pulling the plug. And seriously, I doubt AI Prep will stop a Reaper if they really want access.
Hey, remember how we just fended off a hacking attempt?
Obviously, this means that tech to help us fend off hacking attempts is useless!

....when did Revy get Planet killing tech?

Wait, that's a stupid question. It was Yog, wasn't it? It's always Yog when it comes to munchkining this sort of thing.
Look, uncontrolled proliferation of extremely powerful weapons while we share a galaxy with the batarians and the Terminus is bad.
Let's not do it.

Exaggeration for effect is a thing.
 
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