That's semantics and you know it.
Semper Ad Meliora (Code Geass/Britannian Royalty Quest)
- Thread starter Slayer Anderson
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
That's semantics and you know it.
- Location
- Germany
You cannot placate extremists and fundamentalists with symbolic actions. They do not care for such gestures. We are through our simple existence as a half commoner prince in opposition to such forces. Trying to get them to like us or just dislike less will just alienate our natural allies. Sometimes it is better to accept reality than try to change it. We will never be their prince or get their support. The intro for this character already states that we are on the bad side of a segment of the nobles.
Trying to counteract this is not going to work out nicely, because it is trying to court our worst opponents. We are far better of, going for the ones more inclined in our direction. The Moderates and more Liberal Britannians, who don´t give a fuck about this pureblooded Britannian business.
- Location
- USA
[X] Accept – Kaguya Sumeragi joins the retinue of Lelouch vi Britannia as political insurance against an Anglo-Japanese KMF development deal. Kaguya starts at SL (2) and may be upgraded to either a Diplomacy or Stewardship adviser with further actions.
Strictly speaking Lelouch was always going to be seen as a bit of an outsider/foreign interest magnet ever since hiring Kallen. Jeanne was perhaps understandable as a one-off though was likely going to get some flak. Lelouch has already brought in 1 Euro-Britannian, 1 insane Italian/German and her subordinates, 1 Japanese madman that countries are expending huge amounts of capital to capture/kill and his loyal subordinate, an entire clan of ninjas! Not to mention Duke Stadfeld who was basically the biggest contact point with Japan and his half Japanese daughter. If we try to backpedal on our connections with Asia I don't see it making us any friends. We absolutely need to showcase that we are not their puppet, but we could very much be a voice of change from conquest to some alternative. We are a personal friend of the Empress, but Kaguya is closer to her. If we piss off Japan needlessly, Sayoko could kill Lelouch and everyone he loves. I don't think that is something they want, but we really need to cultivate SL's with Sayoko, Kaguya, and to a lesser extent Kallen. (I realize this might come off a bit as fearmongering I'm just super excited at this chance!)
Strictly speaking Lelouch was always going to be seen as a bit of an outsider/foreign interest magnet ever since hiring Kallen. Jeanne was perhaps understandable as a one-off though was likely going to get some flak. Lelouch has already brought in 1 Euro-Britannian, 1 insane Italian/German and her subordinates, 1 Japanese madman that countries are expending huge amounts of capital to capture/kill and his loyal subordinate, an entire clan of ninjas! Not to mention Duke Stadfeld who was basically the biggest contact point with Japan and his half Japanese daughter. If we try to backpedal on our connections with Asia I don't see it making us any friends. We absolutely need to showcase that we are not their puppet, but we could very much be a voice of change from conquest to some alternative. We are a personal friend of the Empress, but Kaguya is closer to her. If we piss off Japan needlessly, Sayoko could kill Lelouch and everyone he loves. I don't think that is something they want, but we really need to cultivate SL's with Sayoko, Kaguya, and to a lesser extent Kallen. (I realize this might come off a bit as fearmongering I'm just super excited at this chance!)
- Location
- California
We don't need them to like us, we need their arguments to not work. If we don't start adding more Britanians to our retinue, our enemies in court are going to have an open season on us having foreign loyalties. That's what I mean when I say we need to limit their avenues of attack. We can never stop them entirely, but we can make the obvious means of attacking us non-viable.
You talk about winning over moderates but the fact is that's a hell of a lot easier if they can feel like you're one of them and can emphasize with them, and these moderates are also all mostly pureblooded Brits as well. The fact is they do give a fuck about the pureblooded business, it's not just a fringe position.
- Location
- ?????????
I believe our council consists of a Chinese criminal, a half Italian sadist and someone from EU Brittania and a crazy person. I would suggest that we have at least a few people who are Brittanian residents rather than foreigners. Especially considering that we are thinking of making Kaguya a diplo or steward advisor. Hypothetically that is four foreigners in the council with one being accepted by greater society for being part of EU Britannia.
Edit: Correction. The half Italian sadist is our admiral though she would be part of our council.
Edit: Correction. The half Italian sadist is our admiral though she would be part of our council.
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VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Who's the one from CF?
Our lead spy is a chinese dissident we pulled out of jail to work for us. He's not really in the public eye though.
That's not going to happen.
They already have an argument and a means of attack from what we already have. Fuck, Lelouch has explicitly been ostracized from birth because who he was born to.
This entire line of argument is ridiculous. We're not going to win them over with this paper thin lipservice, nor are we closing avenues of attack.
- Location
- ?????????
Wei...though I guess he is more deniable asset than member of the council.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Oh, the not-on-record character. No wonder i don't remember.
- Location
- Germany
Says who? In canon we have the Purists as a faction inside the military, but we have not seen an overwhelming noble cast that only cares about Blood Purity. There is new blood among nobles and this Britannia is clearly not only made out of people with the mindset of nazis. Schneizel himself is clamouring for and has the support of the common people and the Labour party. So this is a clear possible avneue for us to achieve a solid power base, regardless what you may think.
- Location
- ?????????
I am of the opinion that making Kaguya the diplomatic arm of our rule is going to cause problems. We would be putting a foreigner in charge of diplomatic relations both internally and externally. That is going to look bad to any one. Now maybe Moderates could care less. But in all honestly they would probably like it more if their negotiator was a Britannian rather than some foreigner who won't often get seen in a positive light. As for international diplomacy...if they were negotiating with Brittanian prince and expected a foreigner to lead the charge then they weren't thinking straight.
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No they aren't all Nazi's but this has been a pretty clear part of the quest. It was mentioned everyone prefers to have territory on the mainland, why because then they're ruling over pureblooded Britannians which is more prestigious. There's a persistent cultural bias against non-britannians as being less capable and they can become proper Britannian by rising beyond their inferior past. Lelouch who doesn't even consciously buy in to the social darwinism philosophy still takes it for granted that Britannia is obviously justified in it's campaign to rule the world because they're the best suited for running it.
Schneizel has the support of the common people sure but numbers I don't think even get a voice in who's PM, so those common people would be mainly mainlander pureblood Britannians, who many of would also believe all this.
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Well, first and foremost, brittania uses locals to manage things, Slayer said as much. So saying that only pure blooded brittainians have a say is actually, objectively false.
And that's before you get into the fact that the Stadfields weren't torn apart for having a half Japanese heir.
Admittedly, numbers have less rights than brittainian citizen. Seems like, you only need a bit of brittainian blood to be counted as a citizen though.
And frankly, the people who have ostracized us from birth aren't going to stop messing with us just because we're fucking a brittanian man. Nor are they going to run out of the excuses they've always used up until this point.
And that's before you get into the fact that the Stadfields weren't torn apart for having a half Japanese heir.
Admittedly, numbers have less rights than brittainian citizen. Seems like, you only need a bit of brittainian blood to be counted as a citizen though.
And frankly, the people who have ostracized us from birth aren't going to stop messing with us just because we're fucking a brittanian man. Nor are they going to run out of the excuses they've always used up until this point.
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But for the most part they started cooling off on that.
That's why this attitude of throwing our hands in the air and saying we can never win any of them over so don't even try doesn't make sense to me.
To provide my thoughts without directly addressing the arguments, because they're starting to get dangerously circular.
I think I'm in the majority here, but I honestly do not know, so I'm tossing this out there anyways to see what sort of traction it gets.
I can fully support getting either Gino or Nunnally as our Knight of Honor in order to help calm notions of Britannian purity among people. I am specifically willing to do this for two reasons. One, I recognize the very real spectrum with which we can be viewed and how that can be leveraged against us. Britannia has no small amount of xenophobia, and if we want a position of any amount of power we're going to have to at the very least play lip service towards them. Considering the importance that Britannian society places on the Knight of Honor, paying lip service in this would be a major boon, or at least a lack of creating yet more scandals. And while it's fun to create scandals, we really need to be aware of the various costs of doing so.
The second reason I support such an action is that both Gino and Nunnally are capable and able to be SL'd up to be made into trustworthy Knights of Honor. This price is basically nothing for what we're getting anyways. Either one of them would be top contenders even without this consideration. This merely puts them a head above Kallen. Currently I favor Gino because of the narrative of getting Lelouch to relax and the extra personal action. That said, we need to try and figure out what Nunnally would offer us as a Knight of Honor too. How would she interact with Lelouch in such a position?
However, I do not hold any particular desire to go out of our way to recruit a Diplo adviser from the inside.
Kaguya has connections to high ranking officials in China and Japan. She is a ruthless diplomancer that gets what she wants and has you thanking her for giving her what she wants, as seen in this very update. I am willing to grab a 'Britannian' Knight of Honor because we have incredibly good alternatives readily available to us, while acknowledging it appeases the masses enough to let us get away with some of the other crap we've been getting away with. This does not hold true for diplomacy, and given that Slayer is showcasing Kaguya in at least a similar matter to her incredibly potent political savvy that I remember her having, I would be immensely surprised we actually could recruit such a person.
I think I'm in the majority here, but I honestly do not know, so I'm tossing this out there anyways to see what sort of traction it gets.
I can fully support getting either Gino or Nunnally as our Knight of Honor in order to help calm notions of Britannian purity among people. I am specifically willing to do this for two reasons. One, I recognize the very real spectrum with which we can be viewed and how that can be leveraged against us. Britannia has no small amount of xenophobia, and if we want a position of any amount of power we're going to have to at the very least play lip service towards them. Considering the importance that Britannian society places on the Knight of Honor, paying lip service in this would be a major boon, or at least a lack of creating yet more scandals. And while it's fun to create scandals, we really need to be aware of the various costs of doing so.
The second reason I support such an action is that both Gino and Nunnally are capable and able to be SL'd up to be made into trustworthy Knights of Honor. This price is basically nothing for what we're getting anyways. Either one of them would be top contenders even without this consideration. This merely puts them a head above Kallen. Currently I favor Gino because of the narrative of getting Lelouch to relax and the extra personal action. That said, we need to try and figure out what Nunnally would offer us as a Knight of Honor too. How would she interact with Lelouch in such a position?
However, I do not hold any particular desire to go out of our way to recruit a Diplo adviser from the inside.
Kaguya has connections to high ranking officials in China and Japan. She is a ruthless diplomancer that gets what she wants and has you thanking her for giving her what she wants, as seen in this very update. I am willing to grab a 'Britannian' Knight of Honor because we have incredibly good alternatives readily available to us, while acknowledging it appeases the masses enough to let us get away with some of the other crap we've been getting away with. This does not hold true for diplomacy, and given that Slayer is showcasing Kaguya in at least a similar matter to her incredibly potent political savvy that I remember her having, I would be immensely surprised we actually could recruit such a person.
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- Location
- USA
[X] Accept – Kaguya Sumeragi joins the retinue of Lelouch vi Britannia as political insurance against an Anglo-Japanese KMF development deal. Kaguya starts at SL (2) and may be upgraded to either a Diplomacy or Stewardship adviser with further actions.
The first step towards Nippon-Britannia(Nippo-Britannia? How do you Japanese?)has come!
If the EU focused on range and the CF focuses on sheer numbers I wonder what Japanese will focus their designs around? Close range like Britannia or something else?
SL 5 is the lowest it'll take for them to consider the option, I think. Though I may be mixing that up with advisers. Though if Kaguya does become our Diplo adviser then having a pure-blooded Britannian as our Knight may alleviate some...'concerns'.
While the fact the KoH is a man when we have so many female subordinates raises so many others.
I believe Gino was never stated to require SL 5 for KoH. Nunnally was the one who needed to be that close, and Euphie needed it to be an adviser.
Obsessed is a strong word to use after I had just brought it up again. The particular mechanical benefits he offers are more useful than Kallen's at the rate things are going in my option
You're using a very bad example. I said he's the man to conquer the world, and not the one to rule it after. I thought it was clear, but I'm referring to specifically Lelouch's suitability to be Emperor after the world has been conquered.
He isn't suited for rule after the war when there are no more external enemies. He can't really keep everything from imploding.
OSI supposedly isn't controlled by any of our siblings. We could pick that up.
You're conflating the Britannians that look down on commoners and the Britannians that look down on foreigners. There's definitely a lot of overlap, but they aren't the same thing.
It's an important distinction to make when placating moderates, which is something we definitely will need to do.
That's like comparing apples to oranges.
Your saying paying lip service to an ideal that disagrees with your existence is somehow the same as succesfully rooting out treason.
The way forward for us is, winning. The empire is still, ostensibly, a meritocracy. You win people over by being sucessful.
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- Location
- ?????????
Why are we against making Kaguya a Steward? She would still be in a high position in our court, she would be able to use her connections to help us out and she would also fill up the empty slot that we have no candidates for.
How about we look over her stats before we assign her?
Besides, it seems like most people are against her being in diplo, although I'm not sure how much of a problem that would actually be.
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- Location
- South of North
I'll probably be adding a Personal action for KoH either this turn or next. It will enter a mini-turn.
Gino doesn't require a high SL, but it would be beneficial to raise that SL if you were to choose him.
Edit: Personal Actions will likely cap at 3.
You can, but the deal you get from the Stadtfelds is slightly better and they have their own suppliers.
The deal technically extends to the Indonesian Confederation, yes, though they'll grumble about it given the piracy issue and current politics.
Lelouch becoming the best hope for a 'foreign interest party' is nicely ironic considering his flubbing of diplomacy until recently.
On the other hand, him being a low-ranking prince with access to more important royals means that it makes perfect sense.
They're not so much 'cooling off' as admitting that you're both effective and potentially useful. Those traits breed a certain amount of caution towards you, if only because the various nobles don't want to ostracize useful pieces on the board. It's not that they've forgotten your origins and they'll still slander you behind closed doors, but they'll be keeping a civil tongue when rumors might get back to you.
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- Location
- ?????????
Well whether we want a Steward or a Diplomat we need to get her SL up...and Gino's up also. He is SL2. And Euphiemia's SL.