Yeah. I've said a lot about how the law can help improve our position, but there'e another side to it too: we can use the law to weaken our opponents. Even having to defend yourself in court can harm your dignitas, even if you win, it can force them to spend their money on bribes for the jury, and (assuming things are functioning relatively normally) driving them into exile with a successful prosecution is nearly the only way to even semi-permanently remove a rival from the board. There's a lot to be gained from mastery of the courts.
Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
Right. Final notice has been served, and we're in the home stretch. I know that I've been semi-spamming the thread the last few days, but I wouldn't do it if I did not genuinely think that Scaevola was the best option. So I'm going to make one last effort.
1 - Law is an important facet of our education, and the next few years are pretty much the only point in our career when we're going to have time to rectify it. Once we set foot on the Cursus, there are going to be too many demands on our time if we intend to reach the top.
2 - Scaevola is far and away the best teacher we could have in legal matters and Senate procedure. Again, the man has literally written books about this.
3 - Apart from the above, Scaevola is probably the best of the recent crop of Roman provincial governors, and certainly the most ethical. Learning that from him would be a great boon to us.
4 - The physical risk of associating with Scaevola is probably being overestimated. OTL, he only died when Young Marius decided to purge Rome of suspected Sullans in 82BC. If he's still alive when we reach Rome, we can reasonably expect him to last that long. (And just think of the rep we can earn saving the Pontifex Maximus from Marian assassins!
)
5 - Sertorius isn't really a Marian, which means we get all the downsides of the association with considerably fewer benefits. Gratidianus is better if you want to be popularis, and Cinna is better if you want to be near the levers of power. Sertorius will further our military education, which is not immediately necessary, and likely end with us dying in a hopeless guerrilla war in Spain.
6 - Butterflying the Civil War is going to be nigh-impossible from our current position. Sulla should land in Italy with ~five legions of the most hardcore, veteran BAMFS to bestride the Mediterranean since the immediate aftermath of the Second Punic War. Metellus Pius, Crassus and Pompey should nearly double that, with Pompey's contribution being Social War veterans. OTL, they ate all of the armies that fought them, aside from the one that surrendered/defected.
- Further to this, aside from Sertorius, none of the Cinnan generals really come anywhere close to Pompey or Sulla. Sertorius probably won't have an independent command, and even if he did, commanding a purely Roman army in the Italian peninsula does not play to his strengths.
1 - Law is an important facet of our education, and the next few years are pretty much the only point in our career when we're going to have time to rectify it. Once we set foot on the Cursus, there are going to be too many demands on our time if we intend to reach the top.
2 - Scaevola is far and away the best teacher we could have in legal matters and Senate procedure. Again, the man has literally written books about this.
3 - Apart from the above, Scaevola is probably the best of the recent crop of Roman provincial governors, and certainly the most ethical. Learning that from him would be a great boon to us.
4 - The physical risk of associating with Scaevola is probably being overestimated. OTL, he only died when Young Marius decided to purge Rome of suspected Sullans in 82BC. If he's still alive when we reach Rome, we can reasonably expect him to last that long. (And just think of the rep we can earn saving the Pontifex Maximus from Marian assassins!
)5 - Sertorius isn't really a Marian, which means we get all the downsides of the association with considerably fewer benefits. Gratidianus is better if you want to be popularis, and Cinna is better if you want to be near the levers of power. Sertorius will further our military education, which is not immediately necessary, and likely end with us dying in a hopeless guerrilla war in Spain.
6 - Butterflying the Civil War is going to be nigh-impossible from our current position. Sulla should land in Italy with ~five legions of the most hardcore, veteran BAMFS to bestride the Mediterranean since the immediate aftermath of the Second Punic War. Metellus Pius, Crassus and Pompey should nearly double that, with Pompey's contribution being Social War veterans. OTL, they ate all of the armies that fought them, aside from the one that surrendered/defected.
- Further to this, aside from Sertorius, none of the Cinnan generals really come anywhere close to Pompey or Sulla. Sertorius probably won't have an independent command, and even if he did, commanding a purely Roman army in the Italian peninsula does not play to his strengths.
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@Japanime posted the first and nigh-comprehensive analysis, so my instinct is to give him my vote. However... I find myself increasingly nodding in agreement with @Caesar, that immediately jumping into the civil war may have high rewards but is also incredibly high-risk, and our stats aren't at a level where we can guarantee success. Delaying a year, to lay the groundwork for future success, seems to be a more reliable path to a future Consulship.
[X] Plan Education
-[X] Proserpina
-[X] Negotiation
-[X] Scaevola
-[X] No Position
[X] Plan Education
-[X] Proserpina
-[X] Negotiation
-[X] Scaevola
-[X] No Position
- Location
- USA
If you want my honest opinion, it's not that your plan is bad, it's just that I want to go in a different direction. Personally speaking, when the options for patrons came up, and three of the four patrons had rather unfortunate ends with the fourth being seen as an evil tyrant by some, one of the main motivators for my choosing Sertorius, aside from the fact that I liked his personality and liked the potential synergy was the chance to change history or avert it. The same argument could be made for Scaevola in that respect, so the main motivating force that made me choose Sertorius and the choice to start making our way through the military ranks as a Tribune was the fact that I wanted to start out strong and swinging with the Legions as well as fight for someone who seems like an actually decent person in Roman politics, as skewed as that scale may be.
That's entirely fair to be honest, and were our circumstances slightly different I would be right beside you on the Sertorius train.
(Just a minor quibble, but I'm pretty sure that all our patron choices meet sticky ends within a decade. Cinna dies in an army camp mutiny ~84 BC, then Scaevola and Gratidianus are brutally murdered in and around the time the Sullans reclaim Rome, and then finally Sertorius is betrayed and murdered by his subordinates in Spain some years after. But I could be wrong.)
- Location
- USA
Agreed, it's not that I dislike Scaevola in particular or your plan, I just simply prefer to go with Sertorius as it allows us to get in the thick of things rather quickly as well as to work with a man our father seems to have genuine respect for, especially since out of all of them Sertorius is different for being a New Man.
You're right about their demises though, the only reason I singled out Cinna was because out of all of them he was the most successful of the bunch.
xa na xa
A.E.I.O.U. - Antarticae est imperare orbi universo
- Location
- σ Octantis
[X] Plan Education
-[X] Proserpina
-[X] Negotiation
-[X] Scaevola
-[X] No Position
I see this as a choice: do we want to follow our fate, or make fate our own? Be just another client's son of Sertorius among many other's of his, or having the possibility of Scaevola owing us his life?
This is beside the fact that we have a greater chance of establishing an independent fortune and powerbase with the latter than with a military career with the former.
-[X] Proserpina
-[X] Negotiation
-[X] Scaevola
-[X] No Position
I see this as a choice: do we want to follow our fate, or make fate our own? Be just another client's son of Sertorius among many other's of his, or having the possibility of Scaevola owing us his life?
This is beside the fact that we have a greater chance of establishing an independent fortune and powerbase with the latter than with a military career with the former.
- Location
- USA
This is the only part of the argument for Scaevola that I do not understand. For both the near and the short term if we take into account history I don't think either choice gives us a better power base or fortune most based on this:
Choosing Scaevola as a patron of would mean directly allying with Sulla and his camp, which while it would benefit us in the short term based on history, in the process long term we wouldn't have much of an independent to build on as we would be directly allying with the man and any patronage we receive from him would likely be that he granted to us and would be loyal to him. If we take Sulla's victory in the coming Civil War as inevitable than we should also take into account what his victory meant, where he used it to eventually become Dictator himself.
If we take the long view into consideration one of the points from the text that drew my attention to Sertorius is above. Unlike Scaevola, Sertorius is only a tentative ally of the Marians, tentative being the key word for me. I was hoping that by gaining his patronage and potentially serving at his side we could use that to change his stance potentially, such as becoming neutral before Sulla defeats the Marians. The fact that Sertorius was seen as such an admirable man as well as someone who is already well beloved by the populous leads me to believe that we could potentially join his faction and have him act as a counterweight to Sulla.
If there's one thing I've learned about Roman history in this period it's that those that have armies behind them generally tend to do better than those who don't.
- Location
- Abu Dhabi or Manila depending on the time of year
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X]Plan Education
-[X] Proserpina
-[X] Negotiation
-[X] Scaevola
-[X] No Position
-[X] Proserpina
-[X] Negotiation
-[X] Scaevola
-[X] No Position
Honestly? We probably have a better chance of butterflying the Civil War than we do of convincing Sulla and Sertorius to make peace with one another. There's personal antipathy there. (Sulla apparently prevent Sertorius from becoming a tribune.) Like, Sertorius was far and away the most dogged opponent Sulla had. He was still fighting in Spain when Sulla died and kept on fighting until he died. Even if, through some miracle, we convince Sertorius that neither side is fully in the right and he should declare neutrality and stand aside, he can't, because the best he can hope for in a Rome with Sulla is the death of his career. Far more likely is the death of himself.
- Location
- Canada
[X] Plan Populus Romanus
-[X] Proserpina
-[X] Negotiation
-[X] Sertorius
-[X] Staff Tribune
-[X] Proserpina
-[X] Negotiation
-[X] Sertorius
-[X] Staff Tribune
III: Caput Mundi
Telamon
A corvid.
- Location
- Texas
[X]Plan Education
-[X] Proserpina
-[X] Negotiation
-[X] Scaevola
-[X] No Position
-[X] Proserpina
-[X] Negotiation
-[X] Scaevola
-[X] No Position
January 12th, 86 BC
668 Years After the Founding of Rome
The Year of Cinna and Marius
The sun beats down on you as you push through the thronging crowds, but you are almost heedless of it. Your country-raised eyes flicker from sight to sight as you walk through the crowded streets, alighting on one thing after the next. Strange smells waft through the air, accompanied by a cacophony of sounds that you cannot even begin to place, and sights stranger still. Here, a slaver sells men with skin the color of chalk and hair the color of gold, and there a rotund man in a flamboyantly striped toga makes his way through the crowded streets, flanked by a veritable army of servants. Buildings of stone and marble tower around you, carved with the history of your people in living stone, and the calls of the priests echo like bells through their winding alleys.
This is the city of four hundred years, the city of your fathers, the city of Romulus and his heirs. This is Rome, the caput mundi, capital of all the Roman world -- and you stand in the Great Forum, it's beating heart.
"You love it, don't you?"
The softly-spoken words draw your attention to the waifish woman trailing at your side. Dressed in a modest shift, with her stringy hair tied back in a bun, Proserpina looks the very model of an unassuming Roman woman -- even though she is anything but. Your newest chief servant gives you a small smile as she gestures to the Forum around you.
"I can see the wonder in your gaze, dominus. It reminds me of your father. There was nothing he loved more than to come back from a campaign and soak in the city with his eyes."
"It is awe-inspiring, truly." You say, with utmost truthfulness. You can honestly say you have never gazed upon anything quite like Rome before in your life.
Proserpina looks as if she is about to say something, but her lips twist shut as a tall man with firey red hair strides up out of the crowd, flanked by dark-eyed servants armed with knives and cudgels. His eyes light up upon seeing you, and he lowers into a bow -- though perhaps not as low a bow as he might have given. At his side, the servants merely incline their heads while keeping their eyes fixed on the crowd, as if watching for some unseen threat.
"You are the young Cingulatus, I assume?"
668 Years After the Founding of Rome
The Year of Cinna and Marius
The sun beats down on you as you push through the thronging crowds, but you are almost heedless of it. Your country-raised eyes flicker from sight to sight as you walk through the crowded streets, alighting on one thing after the next. Strange smells waft through the air, accompanied by a cacophony of sounds that you cannot even begin to place, and sights stranger still. Here, a slaver sells men with skin the color of chalk and hair the color of gold, and there a rotund man in a flamboyantly striped toga makes his way through the crowded streets, flanked by a veritable army of servants. Buildings of stone and marble tower around you, carved with the history of your people in living stone, and the calls of the priests echo like bells through their winding alleys.
This is the city of four hundred years, the city of your fathers, the city of Romulus and his heirs. This is Rome, the caput mundi, capital of all the Roman world -- and you stand in the Great Forum, it's beating heart.
"You love it, don't you?"
The softly-spoken words draw your attention to the waifish woman trailing at your side. Dressed in a modest shift, with her stringy hair tied back in a bun, Proserpina looks the very model of an unassuming Roman woman -- even though she is anything but. Your newest chief servant gives you a small smile as she gestures to the Forum around you.
"I can see the wonder in your gaze, dominus. It reminds me of your father. There was nothing he loved more than to come back from a campaign and soak in the city with his eyes."
"It is awe-inspiring, truly." You say, with utmost truthfulness. You can honestly say you have never gazed upon anything quite like Rome before in your life.
Proserpina looks as if she is about to say something, but her lips twist shut as a tall man with firey red hair strides up out of the crowd, flanked by dark-eyed servants armed with knives and cudgels. His eyes light up upon seeing you, and he lowers into a bow -- though perhaps not as low a bow as he might have given. At his side, the servants merely incline their heads while keeping their eyes fixed on the crowd, as if watching for some unseen threat.
"You are the young Cingulatus, I assume?"
Warily, you answer in the positive, and a great smile breaks his face.
"I am Rufus, a servant of the Pontifex. He regrets he cannot make an appearance himself, but he has sent me to escort you to his estate."
"And the armed guards?" Proserpina's voice is deceptively soft, as if asking about the price of fish.
Rufus' cheerful expression doesn't change, but you see one of his hands fidget nervously. "A necessity, my lady, of the unfortunate...ah...climate in the city. My master and I are protected from the rigors of political life by his status as Pontifex Maximus, but you and your own master are afforded no such considerations by his enemies."
Not for the first time, you wonder if you have chosen the right side in this conflict. You nod in understanding, and Rufus inclines his head in apology.
"Please, follow me." With that, he turns and strides away. As you begin to follow him, you cast a final look around the Forum, your wonder now tempered with the stark reality of your political situation. To speak with enemies of Marius in such a time is to invite death upon yourself -- a fact all too heavy in your mind as you gather yourself and follow after Rufus.
As Pontifex Maximus, Scaevola officially lives in the Domus Publica, or State House, and has abandoned all material trappings of his past life to fully serve as the spokesman of the Gods on earth.
Unofficially, however, he is still the head of the gens Mucia, and so is entitled to their ancestral holdings -- namely, the palatial Domus Mucia, a great and mighty residence built first by Scaevola's grandfather, who was himself Pontifex Maximus in his day. It has been built upon and added to by successive generations of Mucians, and now stands atop the Caelian Hill, where the well-to-do of Rome make their seats, as one of the grandest residences held by any Roman.
As Rufus leads you up the winding hill through the homes of the elite and powerful, he quickly explains that though Scaevola cannot officially live in the Domus Mucia, there is no law preventing him from using it as an emergency residence if the Domus Publica is unsuitable or damaged. As it is the sole discretion of the Pontifex himself as to what is unsuitable, Scaevola often finds himself 'forced' to retire to his palatial estates.
As Rufus finishes his story of the bizarre intricacies of Republican law, you and your party finally arrive at the gilded gates of the Domus Mucia. At your approach, the slaves positioned at either side of the gate push it open, exposing the verdant courtyard of the home. The redheaded servant leads you past the flowering gardens into the wide and airy halls of the domus, through a grand entrance room lined with golden frescoes, and past a pool room you have no doubt is larger than some Romans' homes. Beside you, Proserpina's eyes are as wide as quail's eggs as she takes it all in, and you feel much the same. You had always thought your estate was considerable, but besides this, your domus is a peasant's hovel.
Finally, you arrive in a second-story room which, while decorated in much the same manner as the rest of the domus, is dominated by the view available from the vast balcony to which it opens. From this angle and height, the entire expanse of Rome is visible, a great mass of temples and homes and markets, and beyond, on the horizon, the thin blue thread of the Tiber. It is a breathtaking sight, and so, for a moment, you do not even notice Scaevola.
The old man sits in a lush velvet chair on the balcony's edge. His skin is thick and tanned from years abroad campaigning, and his face is thin and lean with age and wisdom. However, his most distinctive feature is undoubtedly his eyes. They are grey, hard and sharp, as if hewn out of stone and set into his face, and they flicker over you dispassionately, like a bird studying the carcass of it's prey. Scaevola does not rise to greet you as decorum might expect, but instead simply gestures to the seat in front of him.
"Sit, boy." His voice is demanding, rough.
You glance around you only to find that Rufus and Proserpina have taken advantage of that unnatural skill which every servant has to vanish when they are not needed. You are alone in the room with one of the most respected and powerful men in the city. Slowly, you pace across the room and take the seat before Scaevola, with Rome at your back.
For a long time, he simply studies you. His eyes crawl across your face, etching into every line and crevice. Finally, after what seems like hours, he speaks.
"You have a soldier's arms -- so I assume Lucius taught you of battle." You nod, and he continues. "Very good. I would expect nothing less from him. I see you carry yourself as he did. Will you serve half as well, I wonder?"
He pauses for a long moment, gazing out into the distance at the city, now bathed in orange by the setting sun.
"Your father was my enemy, boy. He was a populist, a people's soldier. But he was a steadfast man, a good Roman, and true. Not like these...Marians." He spits the word like a curse. "Marians -- as if Marius has any control over them still. The men who rule this city now are rabble, agitators with more ideals than sense. They butcher fathers in the streets and their sons in their cribs. They hold no respect for decorum or honor, tradition or legacy."
Scaevola lapses into silence for a few seconds, then continues.
"I will take you under my wing no matter your stance or your views, be assured of that. You are Lucius' son, and it is the least I can do for the son of a man I admired in life. But if I am to make you into something, anything, in this city, I must know what it is you hold to. You have already picked a side simply by entering these halls, but I wish to know what lies in your heart, Atellus."
"What do you truly believe?"
Populares [] You believe in the freedom and equality of all Roman citizens, in the right of every Roman to his own word and voice. This, to you, overrides all other concerns. You speak to the people, telling them that you might see their dreams fulfilled.
--Radical [] What is tradition but a chain to keep Romans enslaved? The mob speaks with one voice, and you have chosen to listen.
--Idealist [] You do not simply pay lip service to the ideas of honesty and fairness. Plebian or patrician alike, all Romans should stand equally and have their voices heard. For is every citizen not a Roman true?
Optimate [] Tradition. Honor. The way of the ancestors. This is what Rome was built upon. This is what has brought us four centuries of glory. Those who would see it torn down would see Rome herself torn down. The law, the Senate, the sword -- these are what built the Republic, and these are what keep it safe still.
--Conservative [] Rome was built by it's patricians, it's nobilis, by those of ancient blood and ancient word. They are at the top because they have proven themselves, time and again, to be the Republic's finest and brightest.
--Traditionalist [] The republican traditions of Rome are the finest in the world, built upon the backs of the Greeks and the Etruscans. They have stood for centuries, and they cannot --should not-- be changed. Such is the way of the ancestors. Such is the law of rock and stone and sea. Such is the will of the Gods.
Opportunist [] Populares, Optimate, they're just different names for old men who hate one another. You are more than willing to use whichever label is necessary at the moment to secure victory in the marbled halls of Rome.
--Radical [] What is tradition but a chain to keep Romans enslaved? The mob speaks with one voice, and you have chosen to listen.
--Idealist [] You do not simply pay lip service to the ideas of honesty and fairness. Plebian or patrician alike, all Romans should stand equally and have their voices heard. For is every citizen not a Roman true?
Optimate [] Tradition. Honor. The way of the ancestors. This is what Rome was built upon. This is what has brought us four centuries of glory. Those who would see it torn down would see Rome herself torn down. The law, the Senate, the sword -- these are what built the Republic, and these are what keep it safe still.
--Conservative [] Rome was built by it's patricians, it's nobilis, by those of ancient blood and ancient word. They are at the top because they have proven themselves, time and again, to be the Republic's finest and brightest.
--Traditionalist [] The republican traditions of Rome are the finest in the world, built upon the backs of the Greeks and the Etruscans. They have stood for centuries, and they cannot --should not-- be changed. Such is the way of the ancestors. Such is the law of rock and stone and sea. Such is the will of the Gods.
Opportunist [] Populares, Optimate, they're just different names for old men who hate one another. You are more than willing to use whichever label is necessary at the moment to secure victory in the marbled halls of Rome.
Scaevola leans back in his chair and nods. In the growing darkness, you cannot tell if it is disgust or admiration which glints in his stony eyes.
"Not what I expected, but...your father might approve, I think, that you have such strongly held convictions, whatever they may be."
"Now..." The Pontifex Maximus leans back in his chair. "...let us see about making yours a name that is respected in Rome, hmm?"
Voting
(A Note: The politics vote above must be part of any plan, and is not a separate vote.)
Connections
With Scaevola's help, you start seeking out connections in the city, and trying to make your name known about Rome. This is not only conducive to getting elected, it will help you begin to build a powerbase in the city. Scaevola can introduce you to several different groups, but be careful of your associations, for they may well come to define you.
Education
Quintus Mutius Scaevola is one of the busiest men in all of Rome. To him fall the duties of recording the acts of the priests and magistrates, of administering and changing the calendar, of seeing to it that the rituals and sacrifices are performed correctly, of keeping the spiritual and economic engines of the Republic functioning. It is nothing short of a miracle, then, that he can take time from his busy schedule to impart you with a mere handful of his prodigious skill.
Favors
While Scaevola is giving you much --education, protection, and a path to the Senate-- out of the kindness of his heart, he expects some things in return. Every now and then, he asks you for a 'favor' or two, something particularly suited to your skills. If you perform well enough, your skills will be improved, you will rise in his favor, and you may even earn yourself fame and recognition in the eyes of the people. Of course, should you fail him or perform below expectations, there will be consequences.
Free Time
As a young man who has just reached his majority, you have an exceptional amount of free time, perhaps more so than any other Roman in the city. You may choose to enjoy the sights of Rome -- or you could try to increase your knowledge in an area in which you are deficient.
(Pick Two)
There is now a TWELVE-HOUR MORATORIUM on all votes.
Use this time to discuss the choices available and create different Plans. As previously discussed, any votes not in plan form, or submitted before the moratorium is up, will not be counted.
As always, discussion is rewarded.
(A Note: The politics vote above must be part of any plan, and is not a separate vote.)
Connections
With Scaevola's help, you start seeking out connections in the city, and trying to make your name known about Rome. This is not only conducive to getting elected, it will help you begin to build a powerbase in the city. Scaevola can introduce you to several different groups, but be careful of your associations, for they may well come to define you.
The Patricians [] You begin to mingle with Rome's elite, the mightiest men in the mightiest city on Earth -- the patricians. Gaudy parties, bacchanal orgies, festivities that last weeks and months -- such is the way of the great. While senators themselves cannot engage in such activities, making connections with their family members and friends will give you inroads to some of Rome's most powerful. The last of the true optimates of the city can be found here by those who know where to look, keeping their heads low lest they lose them altogether.
The Plebians [] While not as wealthy as their patrician cousins, the plebian nobilis of Rome are just as fond of excess. Their parties are often louder, rowdier affairs, the sign of people who, a handful of generations ago, were tavern-owners and fishmongers. The populares draw the bulk of their members from the plebian nobility, and it is the plebian nobility who prosper and celebrate the rise of Marius.
The Soldiery [] The armies of Marius, Suetonius, and Cinna are even now encamped in Rome. Officers, Tribunes, and commanders from over seven legions spend their days and nights whiling away the time while trying to keep their legionnaires at the ready should Sulla return. Brawling and looting is not an uncommon occurrence in the streets near to the camps, and the nights often gleam with fires started by a handful of soldiers who had too much to drink. Associating with these officers is dangerous -- if not to your person, then to your reputation -- but may hold many rewards. Men will fight all the harder for one who has drunk with them and traded blows with them. If your constitution is strong enough to handle it, this may be a good stepping stone to earning the love of the army -- and in Rome, he who is loved by the army is loved by the people.
The Priesthood [] The College of Priests holds some of the most important and powerful men in the Republic. From the augurs to the high priests of the gods, each and every one of these men is vital to the continuing function of Rome and the livelihood of her people. Though they ostensibly stand apart from political squabbling, in reality, the priests are some of the most politically powerful men in Rome. As Scaevola's protege, you are allowed an unprecedented level of access to all levels of the College of Priests, and you take use of it, making friends with some of the most esteemed names in Rome.
The Plebians [] While not as wealthy as their patrician cousins, the plebian nobilis of Rome are just as fond of excess. Their parties are often louder, rowdier affairs, the sign of people who, a handful of generations ago, were tavern-owners and fishmongers. The populares draw the bulk of their members from the plebian nobility, and it is the plebian nobility who prosper and celebrate the rise of Marius.
The Soldiery [] The armies of Marius, Suetonius, and Cinna are even now encamped in Rome. Officers, Tribunes, and commanders from over seven legions spend their days and nights whiling away the time while trying to keep their legionnaires at the ready should Sulla return. Brawling and looting is not an uncommon occurrence in the streets near to the camps, and the nights often gleam with fires started by a handful of soldiers who had too much to drink. Associating with these officers is dangerous -- if not to your person, then to your reputation -- but may hold many rewards. Men will fight all the harder for one who has drunk with them and traded blows with them. If your constitution is strong enough to handle it, this may be a good stepping stone to earning the love of the army -- and in Rome, he who is loved by the army is loved by the people.
The Priesthood [] The College of Priests holds some of the most important and powerful men in the Republic. From the augurs to the high priests of the gods, each and every one of these men is vital to the continuing function of Rome and the livelihood of her people. Though they ostensibly stand apart from political squabbling, in reality, the priests are some of the most politically powerful men in Rome. As Scaevola's protege, you are allowed an unprecedented level of access to all levels of the College of Priests, and you take use of it, making friends with some of the most esteemed names in Rome.
Education
Quintus Mutius Scaevola is one of the busiest men in all of Rome. To him fall the duties of recording the acts of the priests and magistrates, of administering and changing the calendar, of seeing to it that the rituals and sacrifices are performed correctly, of keeping the spiritual and economic engines of the Republic functioning. It is nothing short of a miracle, then, that he can take time from his busy schedule to impart you with a mere handful of his prodigious skill.
Administration [] In his time as governor of Asia long ago, Scaevola reformed the economy and the law alike, administering his province so well that the people who lived there instituted a holiday in his honor, one which is celebrated still. Now, as Pontifex, he leverages that great skill into ensuring traditions are properly observed, that the taxes are collected fairly and justly, and that the city runs as it should. Scaevola will no doubt go down in history as one of Rome's greatest governors and administrators, and so you ask him to teach you how to govern, how to rule, how to administer Roman law justly to all citizens of the Empire. (Stewardship and Administration +++)
Law [] Scaevola is the lawyer. He has single-handedly reworked and rewritten many of the most antiquated and obsolete laws of the Republic, and created many of his own. His treatises on civil law and jurisprudence have become almost mythical among Roman advocates in his own lifetime, and his simplification and codification of some of the most complex laws of the Republic served to make him a household name long before he became Pontifex. His speeches stand as some of the finest works of oratory not only of your time, but of Roman history. There is no better teacher in the law, living or dead. (Speech, Oratory, and Law ++++)
Warfare [] Like all Romans, Scaevola served in the legions in his youth. While no great general, his age means he has served and fought in well over a dozen wars across his lifetime, giving him a mighty well of knowledge from which to draw. He cannot teach you more of strategy and warfare, but he tells you of the realities of command, of fighting and struggling and dying alongside your men. It is harsh knowledge, true knowledge and by the time you are done, you understand just a bit more of how to make a man willing to die for you. (Command and Military ++)
Law [] Scaevola is the lawyer. He has single-handedly reworked and rewritten many of the most antiquated and obsolete laws of the Republic, and created many of his own. His treatises on civil law and jurisprudence have become almost mythical among Roman advocates in his own lifetime, and his simplification and codification of some of the most complex laws of the Republic served to make him a household name long before he became Pontifex. His speeches stand as some of the finest works of oratory not only of your time, but of Roman history. There is no better teacher in the law, living or dead. (Speech, Oratory, and Law ++++)
Warfare [] Like all Romans, Scaevola served in the legions in his youth. While no great general, his age means he has served and fought in well over a dozen wars across his lifetime, giving him a mighty well of knowledge from which to draw. He cannot teach you more of strategy and warfare, but he tells you of the realities of command, of fighting and struggling and dying alongside your men. It is harsh knowledge, true knowledge and by the time you are done, you understand just a bit more of how to make a man willing to die for you. (Command and Military ++)
Favors
While Scaevola is giving you much --education, protection, and a path to the Senate-- out of the kindness of his heart, he expects some things in return. Every now and then, he asks you for a 'favor' or two, something particularly suited to your skills. If you perform well enough, your skills will be improved, you will rise in his favor, and you may even earn yourself fame and recognition in the eyes of the people. Of course, should you fail him or perform below expectations, there will be consequences.
Advocacy [] Teronius, a good friend of Scaevola, has found himself in a spot of legal trouble, and is being prosecuted by one of his enemies, with risk of exile. This enemy is the brother of a noted populare, and Scaevola's position is such that he cannot risk advocating for him publicly. However, as a relative unknown, you might easily stand for Teronius as his advocate. If the case is a success, you will earn prestige and accolades, as well as respect among the optimates.
Debt Collection [] Cincornius, a debt collector in the employ of Scaevola, has been withholding funds for months, skimming from both the priesthood and the Roman people. Scaevola has decided to entrust you with returning the people's coin to them -- by any means necessary.
Training [] Scaevola has hired a new batch of guards for the the College of the Vestal Virgins, in order to protect the holy priestesses from the depredations of lesser men. Of course, these guards must be thoroughly evaluated and trained to ensure that they are both not a threat to the priestesses and that they are capable of protecting the sacred sisters themselves. Scaevola has placed you in charge of training these men, and has indirectly placed the fate of Rome's holiest women in your hands.
Debt Collection [] Cincornius, a debt collector in the employ of Scaevola, has been withholding funds for months, skimming from both the priesthood and the Roman people. Scaevola has decided to entrust you with returning the people's coin to them -- by any means necessary.
Training [] Scaevola has hired a new batch of guards for the the College of the Vestal Virgins, in order to protect the holy priestesses from the depredations of lesser men. Of course, these guards must be thoroughly evaluated and trained to ensure that they are both not a threat to the priestesses and that they are capable of protecting the sacred sisters themselves. Scaevola has placed you in charge of training these men, and has indirectly placed the fate of Rome's holiest women in your hands.
Free Time
As a young man who has just reached his majority, you have an exceptional amount of free time, perhaps more so than any other Roman in the city. You may choose to enjoy the sights of Rome -- or you could try to increase your knowledge in an area in which you are deficient.
(Pick Two)
The Circuses [] You spend your time at the circuses, where many of Rome's elite go to relax and unwind. Amidst the roaring crowd, it is more than possible to make fast friends.
Exhibition [] Young men of a martial bent often spend time practicing the sword in the Forum with the soldiers. Not only is this a good way to improve your skills, you can show off your prowess in battle to the Roman citizenry, and even win acclaim.
Debates [] Men of scholarly or political bent often gather in the Forum to hold debates. Those with a sharp tongue and a quick mind might even win the love of the people by soundly defeating a foe in a public contest of minds, and draw the attention of like-minded men.
Loans [] Seeking to make a little more coin, you spend your time in the Forum loaning out money to Romans who seem able and capable of paying it back. Should they default on their loans, you might even press a case against them.
Recitals [] Many philosophers still practice the ancient Greek oral style, traveling from Greece to Rome in order to recite the ideas and morals of Plato and other great thinkers. You sit down alongside several other Roman youths in the Forum and listen to the words of the elders.
Study Law [] You spend your time studying and reading treatises on the law and natural order, that you might be better equipped in the courts and on the pulpit.
Attend the Senate [] Though only Senators may speak, Senate meetings are free for all Roman citizens to attend. In order to learn of the world which you hope to enter, and better integrate yourself with the people you hope to one day count your peers, you sit in on most every Senate meeting held after your arrival to the city.
Exhibition [] Young men of a martial bent often spend time practicing the sword in the Forum with the soldiers. Not only is this a good way to improve your skills, you can show off your prowess in battle to the Roman citizenry, and even win acclaim.
Debates [] Men of scholarly or political bent often gather in the Forum to hold debates. Those with a sharp tongue and a quick mind might even win the love of the people by soundly defeating a foe in a public contest of minds, and draw the attention of like-minded men.
Loans [] Seeking to make a little more coin, you spend your time in the Forum loaning out money to Romans who seem able and capable of paying it back. Should they default on their loans, you might even press a case against them.
Recitals [] Many philosophers still practice the ancient Greek oral style, traveling from Greece to Rome in order to recite the ideas and morals of Plato and other great thinkers. You sit down alongside several other Roman youths in the Forum and listen to the words of the elders.
Study Law [] You spend your time studying and reading treatises on the law and natural order, that you might be better equipped in the courts and on the pulpit.
Attend the Senate [] Though only Senators may speak, Senate meetings are free for all Roman citizens to attend. In order to learn of the world which you hope to enter, and better integrate yourself with the people you hope to one day count your peers, you sit in on most every Senate meeting held after your arrival to the city.
There is now a TWELVE-HOUR MORATORIUM on all votes.
Use this time to discuss the choices available and create different Plans. As previously discussed, any votes not in plan form, or submitted before the moratorium is up, will not be counted.
As always, discussion is rewarded.
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Uh...
Link. I really hope we don't butterfly his surviving that assassination attempt.Wikipedia said:
The 'Politics' vote is the big one here, so let's spend some time working through it. (@Telamon, I'm assuming we have to pick a sub-faction as well as a primary party; is that correct?)
Scaevola was the preeminent lawgiver of this period, best known for the Lex Licinia Mucia that barred non-Latins from enjoying the full rights of citizenship (aka the vote). Part of this law was to ensure that the traditional artistocracy would remain in power, but a big part was also to ensure that demagogues and generals couldn't give Roman citizenship to their supporters or soldiers to seize power for themselves. (Note: the original meaning of the word 'tyrant' is one who comes into power via popular support).
Scaevola is an Optimate, obviously, but his reputation for honesty and incorruptibility means he would still respect us if we pursue an Idealist path. To be a radical populares or an opportunist would essentially guarantee losing his respect, and quite possibly lose his patronage. I also suspect that he wouldn't approve of us being a 'conservative' Optimate -- he would be too familiar with the nobilis, too familiar with Roman politics, to truly think that those of ancient blood have "proven themselves... to be the Republic's finest and brightest." Certainly Roman citizenship should be reserved for Romans, but that doesn't mean the ancient families have more arete than other men.
So, as far as I can tell, our choices boil down to:
[] Populares:
-[] Idealist: You do not simply pay lip service to the ideas of honesty and fairness. Plebian or patrician alike, all Romans should stand equally and have their voices heard. For is every citizen not a Roman true?
Or:
[] Optimate
-[] Traditionalist: The republican traditions of Rome are the finest in the world, built upon the backs of the Greeks and the Etruscans. They have stood for centuries, and they cannot --should not-- be changed. Such is the way of the ancestors. Such is the law of rock and stone and sea. Such is the will of the Gods.
My tentative vote is for Idealist -- I would love to play a Cicero expy
EDIT: I just realized I mixed up the timing. We're not a generation before Cicero -- we belong tot he same generation! Cicero was born in 106 BC; we were born in 103 BC.
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- Location
- France
Opportunist [] Populares, Optimate, they're just different names for old men who hate one another. You are more than willing to use whichever label is necessary at the moment to secure victory in the marbled halls of Rome.
The Priesthood [] The College of Priests holds some of the most important and powerful men in the Republic. From the augurs to the high priests of the gods, each and every one of these men is vital to the continuing function of Rome and the livelihood of her people. Though they ostensibly stand apart from political squabbling, in reality, the priests are some of the most politically powerful men in Rome. As Scaevola's protege, you are allowed an unprecedented level of access to all levels of the College of Priests, and you take use of it, making friends with some of the most esteemed names in Rome.
Training [] Scaevola has hired a new batch of guards for the the College of the Vestal Virgins, in order to protect the holy priestesses from the depredations of lesser men. Of course, these guards must be thoroughly evaluated and trained to ensure that they are both not a threat to the priestesses and that they are capable of protecting the sacred sisters themselves. Scaevola has placed you in charge of training these men, and has indirectly placed the fate of Rome's holiest women in your hands.
Exhibition [] Young men of a martial bent often spend time practicing the sword in the Forum with the soldiers. Not only is this a good way to improve your skills, you can show off your prowess in battle to the Roman citizenry, and even win acclaim.
Debates [] Men of scholarly or political bent often gather in the Forum to hold debates. Those with a sharp tongue and a quick mind might even win the love of the people by soundly defeating a foe in a public contest of minds, and draw the attention of like-minded men.
The Priesthood [] The College of Priests holds some of the most important and powerful men in the Republic. From the augurs to the high priests of the gods, each and every one of these men is vital to the continuing function of Rome and the livelihood of her people. Though they ostensibly stand apart from political squabbling, in reality, the priests are some of the most politically powerful men in Rome. As Scaevola's protege, you are allowed an unprecedented level of access to all levels of the College of Priests, and you take use of it, making friends with some of the most esteemed names in Rome.
Training [] Scaevola has hired a new batch of guards for the the College of the Vestal Virgins, in order to protect the holy priestesses from the depredations of lesser men. Of course, these guards must be thoroughly evaluated and trained to ensure that they are both not a threat to the priestesses and that they are capable of protecting the sacred sisters themselves. Scaevola has placed you in charge of training these men, and has indirectly placed the fate of Rome's holiest women in your hands.
Exhibition [] Young men of a martial bent often spend time practicing the sword in the Forum with the soldiers. Not only is this a good way to improve your skills, you can show off your prowess in battle to the Roman citizenry, and even win acclaim.
Debates [] Men of scholarly or political bent often gather in the Forum to hold debates. Those with a sharp tongue and a quick mind might even win the love of the people by soundly defeating a foe in a public contest of minds, and draw the attention of like-minded men.
Given our patronage by Scaevola, the other options seem pretty straightforward.
For 'Connections', the obvious answer is obvious. He is the Pontifex Maximus, and offers incomparable access to the Priesthood. We'll need to go to war eventually, but let's get the most out of our time with Scaevola.
For 'Education', likewise, Scaevola is the lawgiver, so we really ought to study Law while serving at his side. This also boosts our Oratory skill, shoring up one of our biggest strengths. (On the other hand... Stewardship/Administration is our weakest area, and Scaevola is a pretty solid educator in those fields as well.)
'Favors' is interesting.
Lastly, for how to spend our free time... this is a chance to benefit from our time in Rome and shore up our skill set before we launch our career.
So, a tentative plan:
[] Plan Proto-Cicero
Politics:
[] Populares:
-[] Idealist: You do not simply pay lip service to the ideas of honesty and fairness. Plebian or patrician alike, all Romans should stand equally and have their voices heard. For is every citizen not a Roman true?
Connections:
[] The Priesthood: The College of Priests holds some of the most important and powerful men in the Republic. From the augurs to the high priests of the gods, each and every one of these men is vital to the continuing function of Rome and the livelihood of her people. Though they ostensibly stand apart from political squabbling, in reality, the priests are some of the most politically powerful men in Rome. As Scaevola's protege, you are allowed an unprecedented level of access to all levels of the College of Priests, and you take use of it, making friends with some of the most esteemed names in Rome.
Education:
[] Law: Scaevola is the lawyer. He has single-handedly reworked and rewritten many of the most antiquated and obsolete laws of the Republic, and created many of his own. His treatises on civil law and jurisprudence have become almost mythical among Roman advocates in his own lifetime, and his simplification and codification of some of the most complex laws of the Republic served to make him a household name long before he became Pontifex. His speeches stand as some of the finest works of oratory not only of your time, but of Roman history. There is no better teacher in the law, living or dead.(Speech, Oratory, and Law ++++)
Favors:
[] Training: Scaevola has hired a new batch of guards for the the College of the Vestal Virgins, in order to protect the holy priestesses from the depredations of lesser men. Of course, these guards must be thoroughly evaluated and trained to ensure that they are both not a threat to the priestesses and that they are capable of protecting the sacred sisters themselves. Scaevola has placed you in charge of training these men, and has indirectly placed the fate of Rome's holiest women in your hands.
Free Time:
[] Exhibition: Young men of a martial bent often spend time practicing the sword in the Forum with the soldiers. Not only is this a good way to improve your skills, you can show off your prowess in battle to the Roman citizenry, and even win acclaim.
[] Attend the Senate: Though only Senators may speak, Senate meetings are free for all Roman citizens to attend. In order to learn of the world which you hope to enter, and better integrate yourself with the people you hope to one day count your peers, you sit in on most every Senate meeting held after your arrival to the city.
For 'Connections', the obvious answer is obvious. He is the Pontifex Maximus, and offers incomparable access to the Priesthood. We'll need to go to war eventually, but let's get the most out of our time with Scaevola.
For 'Education', likewise, Scaevola is the lawgiver, so we really ought to study Law while serving at his side. This also boosts our Oratory skill, shoring up one of our biggest strengths. (On the other hand... Stewardship/Administration is our weakest area, and Scaevola is a pretty solid educator in those fields as well.)
'Favors' is interesting.
- 'Advocacy' strikes me as a possible trap option. Yes, we'd be defending one of Scaevola's friends, but given his reputation for incorruptibility, I'm not sure we should be publicly defending someone who may be guilty of the charges.... On the other hand, Oratory is one of our better skills, so that's something to bear in mind.
- 'Debt Collection' probably has the greatest reward -- it may seem like a 'meh' option, but this sort of case is how the greatest Roman statesmen -- Scaevola, Cicero, and others -- first gained public notice and respect. Fighting corruption is a first good way to establish yourself as someone worth listening to, and protecting Scaevola's reputation could have a major butterfly effect. On the other hand, our 'Stewardship' score sucks, and that may be needed to ensure success here. (Though our 'Intelligence' stat is our best, and that might be more directly relevant...).
- Finally, 'Training' has the biggest easter eggs of the bunch -- Scaevola will face assassination attempts, both this year and four years from now. The successful assassination (the one in 82 BC) takes place within the College of the Vestal Virgins, which means our efforts to train the guards might directly save Scaevola's life down the road. Plus, our Intelligence and Military scores are sky-high, and this would be a good way to prepare ourselves for a military career in the near future.
Lastly, for how to spend our free time... this is a chance to benefit from our time in Rome and shore up our skill set before we launch our career.
- The Circuses -- if we were a populares or opportunist, and had nothing better to do, this might introduce us to some friends. OTOH, the quality of friends here would be pretty low...
- Exhibition -- 'Military' is one of our strengths, so this would probably improve that skill (slightly), give us a positive reputation, and impress the 'audience', with potential for friends or patrons on the military side of things. Note that the military of this time is usually known for supporting the populares. (EDIT: this would also synergize with our training the guards for the Vestal Virgins -- better Military score = better results for training...?)
- Debates -- 'Intelligence' and 'Oratory' are two of our strengths, so this seems to be a near-certain success, giving us better connections ('attention of like-minded men') and improved skills for when we need them.
- Loans -- a chance to make some money, and shore up our weakest stats (Stewardship and Intrigue). We do have Prosperina to help out with Intrigue, but our Stewardship score sucks, and that might cost us significantly later on. (We'll need money to buy votes later on -- this is Rome -- but we need to be good at it if we want to ensure we aren't cheated. Julius Caesar was pretty terrible with money -- he succeeded despite being constantly on the verge of bankruptcy, but I'd prefer to avoid putting ourselves in such high-risk situations).
- Recitals -- good for developing our 'Intelligence' score, and for making connections with the Optimates, but I'm not sure this one is worth it.
- Study Law -- this seems like a waste. Scaevola is our patron, yet we'd study the law without his help?
- Attend the Senate -- good for making political connections of all stripes, and for better understanding the 'lay of the land' as we enter the cursus honorum. This one might be worth it simply for the context. Also, it might give us a slight bonus to our 'Subterfuge' score, as we get a better grasp of political wheeling-and-dealing....
So, a tentative plan:
[] Plan Proto-Cicero
Politics:
[] Populares:
-[] Idealist: You do not simply pay lip service to the ideas of honesty and fairness. Plebian or patrician alike, all Romans should stand equally and have their voices heard. For is every citizen not a Roman true?
Connections:
[] The Priesthood: The College of Priests holds some of the most important and powerful men in the Republic. From the augurs to the high priests of the gods, each and every one of these men is vital to the continuing function of Rome and the livelihood of her people. Though they ostensibly stand apart from political squabbling, in reality, the priests are some of the most politically powerful men in Rome. As Scaevola's protege, you are allowed an unprecedented level of access to all levels of the College of Priests, and you take use of it, making friends with some of the most esteemed names in Rome.
Education:
[] Law: Scaevola is the lawyer. He has single-handedly reworked and rewritten many of the most antiquated and obsolete laws of the Republic, and created many of his own. His treatises on civil law and jurisprudence have become almost mythical among Roman advocates in his own lifetime, and his simplification and codification of some of the most complex laws of the Republic served to make him a household name long before he became Pontifex. His speeches stand as some of the finest works of oratory not only of your time, but of Roman history. There is no better teacher in the law, living or dead.(Speech, Oratory, and Law ++++)
Favors:
[] Training: Scaevola has hired a new batch of guards for the the College of the Vestal Virgins, in order to protect the holy priestesses from the depredations of lesser men. Of course, these guards must be thoroughly evaluated and trained to ensure that they are both not a threat to the priestesses and that they are capable of protecting the sacred sisters themselves. Scaevola has placed you in charge of training these men, and has indirectly placed the fate of Rome's holiest women in your hands.
Free Time:
[] Exhibition: Young men of a martial bent often spend time practicing the sword in the Forum with the soldiers. Not only is this a good way to improve your skills, you can show off your prowess in battle to the Roman citizenry, and even win acclaim.
[] Attend the Senate: Though only Senators may speak, Senate meetings are free for all Roman citizens to attend. In order to learn of the world which you hope to enter, and better integrate yourself with the people you hope to one day count your peers, you sit in on most every Senate meeting held after your arrival to the city.
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It'll be a good few hours before I have the time to draw up a proper plan or debate things in thread, so I'll just throw down my preliminary thoughts.
-Politics: I'm reading the options differently to @Publicola. I think it goes Radical Populare, Moderate Populare, Moderate Optimate, Reactionary Optimate. Maybe you could clarify, @Telamon ?
-Connections: Priests is the obvious choice, but I worry about the turnover in those positions invalidating our networking. (Of course we'll meet Flamen Dialis Julius Caesar, so...) Patricians will introduce us to a lot of the men who'll be our peers on the way up the cursus. I kind of like Soldiery too, though. It'll help our command somewhat and give us a useful line of communication with the men who'll be doing any potential dirty work for Marius and Cinna.
-Education: Law, however much improved stewardship calls to me.
-Favours: I like the look of Advocacy, and it would be a great way to start our career but it's kind of the opposite of staying off the Marian radar. Training is really appealing- having Scaevola put the safety of the Vestals in our hands at our age is a big deal, and it helps keep our martial skill ticking over.
-Free Time: Exhibitions and Debates are a great way to start establishing our reputation, and we'll probably meet Cicero with the latter. If we opt for Admin with Scaevola then studying law should go here, but it can otherwise be ignored. Attending the Senate is a decent third option, but in the current clime I'm not sure how much useful/interesting debate is going on.
There are a lot of potential synergies here guys, and we should keep them in mind.
-Politics: I'm reading the options differently to @Publicola. I think it goes Radical Populare, Moderate Populare, Moderate Optimate, Reactionary Optimate. Maybe you could clarify, @Telamon ?
-Connections: Priests is the obvious choice, but I worry about the turnover in those positions invalidating our networking. (Of course we'll meet Flamen Dialis Julius Caesar, so...) Patricians will introduce us to a lot of the men who'll be our peers on the way up the cursus. I kind of like Soldiery too, though. It'll help our command somewhat and give us a useful line of communication with the men who'll be doing any potential dirty work for Marius and Cinna.
-Education: Law, however much improved stewardship calls to me.
-Favours: I like the look of Advocacy, and it would be a great way to start our career but it's kind of the opposite of staying off the Marian radar. Training is really appealing- having Scaevola put the safety of the Vestals in our hands at our age is a big deal, and it helps keep our martial skill ticking over.
-Free Time: Exhibitions and Debates are a great way to start establishing our reputation, and we'll probably meet Cicero with the latter. If we opt for Admin with Scaevola then studying law should go here, but it can otherwise be ignored. Attending the Senate is a decent third option, but in the current clime I'm not sure how much useful/interesting debate is going on.
There are a lot of potential synergies here guys, and we should keep them in mind.
Major edit after I discovered something on my wiki-walk:
Also note that Cicero studied under Scaevola, just like us!
Specifically:
I may need to rethink some other aspects of the Plan if this is the path we take, though...
We belong to Cicero's generation -- we will almost certainly get a chance to meet and work alongside him.
Also note that Cicero studied under Scaevola, just like us!
OTOH, that was probably a few years back -- right now, in 86 BC, Cicero has just returned from campaigning in the Social War under Pompey Strabo (father of 'The Great') and Sulla; Cicero is a few years from beginning his work as a lawyer in Rome.
Specifically:
This tells me that the 'Recitals' option is the option to 'meet Cicero and company' -- which means it definitely has my vote.
I may need to rethink some other aspects of the Plan if this is the path we take, though...
- Location
- United States
I'm going with
Optimate [] Tradition. Honor. The way of the ancestors. This is what Rome was built upon. This is what has brought us four centuries of glory. Those who would see it torn down would see Rome herself torn down. The law, the Senate, the sword -- these are what built the Republic, and these are what keep it safe still.
--Conservative [] Rome was built by it's patricians, it's nobilis, by those of ancient blood and ancient word. They are at the top because they have proven themselves, time and again, to be the Republic's finest and brightest.
This is the biggest vote for me and I basically don't care about the other stuff. Edit: I'll think about it though, before the moratorium ends, and vote for either my own plan or someone elses.
Optimate [] Tradition. Honor. The way of the ancestors. This is what Rome was built upon. This is what has brought us four centuries of glory. Those who would see it torn down would see Rome herself torn down. The law, the Senate, the sword -- these are what built the Republic, and these are what keep it safe still.
--Conservative [] Rome was built by it's patricians, it's nobilis, by those of ancient blood and ancient word. They are at the top because they have proven themselves, time and again, to be the Republic's finest and brightest.
This is the biggest vote for me and I basically don't care about the other stuff. Edit: I'll think about it though, before the moratorium ends, and vote for either my own plan or someone elses.
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- Location
- Festering in a vat of acid
This might be interesting to you guys. It is a Hardcore History Podcast about Julius Caesar's subjugation of the native Celtic tribal peoples of ancient Gaul. It is called The Celtic Holocaust.
Something to note from the character sheet: right now it is 86 BC and we are 17 years old. According to Wikipedia:
If we want to climb the cursus honorum suo anno (for maximum prestige) we need to become a military tribune next year. On the other hand, we could try to make a statement, by climbing the cursus honorum at the same time as a non-patrician -- become a tribune at 20, a quaestor at 30, etc. (Demonstrate our readiness to fight for Roman equality, by living it).
...But on the first hand, I just did the math. 103 BC - 40 (minimum age for patrician consul) = 63 BC, which is the same year that Cicero become consul suo anno. What do you think -- a patrician and an equites 'self-made man' serving together on Rome's top office, fighting corruption and tyranny to save Rome from itself?
I like this quest.
Just a couple of potential action plans before I have to go.
[] Populare
-[]Idealist
[]Soldiery
[]Law
[]Training
[]The Circuses
[]Exhibition
-[]Idealist
[]Soldiery
[]Law
[]Training
[]The Circuses
[]Exhibition
Either of the moderate options for politics
[] Patricians/ Priests
[] Law
[] Advocacy
[] Debates
[] Recitals
[] Patricians/ Priests
[] Law
[] Advocacy
[] Debates
[] Recitals
[] Optimate
-[] Conservative
[] Patricians
[] Law
[] Advocacy
[] Debates
[] Senate
-[] Conservative
[] Patricians
[] Law
[] Advocacy
[] Debates
[] Senate
Either moderate position.
[] Patricians
[] Law
[] Training
[] Debates
[] Exhibition
[] Patricians
[] Law
[] Training
[] Debates
[] Exhibition
Either moderate position.
[] Soldiery
[] Law
[] Training
[] Debates
[] Exhibition
[] Soldiery
[] Law
[] Training
[] Debates
[] Exhibition