Personal thought on legion control:
-Make Terms - The strategically conservative option, we essentially write off the option of actually gaining full control over the Legion in favor of actually HAVING a functioning Legion when we get to the battle, because all the other options risks the Legion being less than operational(and giving way is unacceptable). We're going to be limited in our gains and he in turn is in position to be limited...but since he rose from nothing he's used to that. We can ALSO potentially use Make Terms to stuff him into actions where he's easier to discredit via the cult backing us.

-Overshadow - Seize control over the legion, expect to spend more actions making up for spite damage. If we go for Overshadow we're going to need to stop assuming that he'd cover the bits we didn't, because we've just made HIS best play to sabotage us without actually being caught for sabotaging, since by taking charge we also take responsibility for failures. It would not be too hard for him to figure out what we're weak at and then arranging for Problems in those parts we're not able to deal with.

-Contact - We could potentially extend a hand in trust, so the Legion's loyalties belonging to both of us isn't a problem, with the risk of having it bitten off, because Roman politics are a starving wolfpack.

Currently leaning towards either make friends or just grab the Cult and Make Terms in our favor.
 
@Telamon Have you made up your mind about Approval Plan-voting?
I have found that allowing people to approval-vote for multiple plans, each of which is coherent in its own right, is a very useful tool for avoiding situations where people don't pursue the vote choice they actually want due to fear of fragmentation or an initial bandwagon effect.
Fragmentation is going to be a real issue this time around, especially with 13 subvotes.
 
Approval Voting
@Telamon Have you made up your mind about Approval Plan-voting?

Fragmentation is going to be a real issue this time around, especially with 13 subvotes.

Ah, hell. I knew I forgot something.

As of this update, Approval Plan Voting is in full effect, and will be used going forward.

You may vote for as many plans as you like, with the one which wins a majority of votes being the winner.
 
Approval voting is a mixed bag for me. On one hand, it does help out with potential spoiler effects and is thus more just. On the other hand, it does mean more risk-taking (or otherwise of a different general idea of what is "fun") people like myself never get any concessions because the most approved plan will win always, whereas simple plurality allows some differences to occasionally break through or at the very least allows for negotiation. It is very difficult to get SV in general to vote for something that isn't a very conservative (meaning cautious) move or trying to go for the most humanitarian/diplomatic route even if that's not necessarily the best answer*. Honestly, the whole thing is a question of justice vs. fairness in my view.

Who knows though? It's been a year and a half since I was active in SV quests. Maybe the base has changed their voting habits since then?

*The diplomatic thing doesn't apply to this vote specifically. Just wanted to clear that up before someone goes "well, like, that's just your opinion, man." Besides Undermine, this vote is pretty well balanced with pros and cons for each.

EDIT: Telamon is a ninja!
 
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Approval voting is a mixed bag for me. On one hand, it does help out with potential spoiler effects and is thus more just. On the other hand, it does mean more risk-taking (or otherwise of a different general idea of what is "fun") people like myself never get any concessions because the most approved plan will win always, whereas simple plurality allows some differences to occasionally break through or at the very least allows for negotiation. It is very difficult to get SV in general to vote for something that isn't a very conservative (meaning cautious) move or trying to go for the most humanitarian/diplomatic route even if that's not necessarily the best answer*. Honestly, the whole thing is a question of justice vs. fairness in my view.

Who knows though? It's been a year and a half since I was active in SV quests. Maybe the base has changed their voting habits since then?

*The diplomatic thing doesn't apply to this vote specifically. Just wanted to clear that up before someone goes "well, like, that's just your opinion, man." Besides Undermine, this vote is pretty well balanced with pros and cons for each.

EDIT: Telamon is a ninja!

Even with approval voting, well-reasoned discussion and posts can sway the vote or the choice — if two plans are neck and neck and I see a very good argument for one, that can and will tip the scales.
 
Here are hopefully all the finished plans I could find so far. I have grouped them by their choice for The Consul's Heir. Ordering them via Personal actions, which are at least as important, was sadly too much effort. Still, I hope this helps (Clicking on the Quotes should bring you to the main argument post for that plan):
[] Plan Harden Position and Social Linking
-[] Make Terms
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
--[] Scaevola
-[] The Marians
-[] The Crone of Bithynia
-[] The Cult
-[] The King Without A Crown
-[] The Prince
-[] Study


[] Plan Love of the Legion and various Studies.
-[] Make Terms
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Scaevola
-[] Brotherhood
-[] The Cult
-[] Res Publica
-[] Study
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] The Crone of Bithynia
[] Plan Off with the gloves
-[] Overshadow
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Scaevola
-[] Brotherhood
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] Para Bellum
-[] The Cult
-[] The City of the Kings of Asia
-[] Study

[] Plan The Chosen Tribune
-[] Overshadow
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Training
-[] Correspondence
--[] Scaevola
-[] The Cult
-[] Brotherhood
-[] Para Bellum
-[] Study
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] The Crone of Bithynia
-[] Connect
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Cicero
-[] The Marians
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] Para Bellum
-[] Study
-[] The Crone of Bithynia
-[] The Prince


[] Plan Befriend But Outdo
-[] Connect
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Scaevola
-[] Brotherhood
-[] Seafaring
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] Para Bellum
-[] Res Publica
-[] Study


[] Plan Publicola 2.0
-[] Connect
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[]
Correspondence
--[]
Cicero
-[] The Scipians
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] The Crone of Bithynia
-[] The City of the Kings of Asia
-[] The Prince
-[] Study


[] Plan Make Connections and Study v2
-[] Connect
-[] Training
-[] Promote Centurion
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Cicero
-[] The Scipians
-[] The Marians
-[] The Prince
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] Para Bellum
-[] Study


[] Plan The Power Of Friendship
-[] Connect
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Training
-[] Correspondence
--[] Scaevola
-[] The Scipians
-[] Brotherhood
-[] Para Bellum
-[] Study
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] The Crone of Bithynia


-[] Connect
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Cicero
-[] The Scipians
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] The City of the Kings of Asia
-[] Study
-[] Para Bellum
-[] The General

Quick note: I feel that some plans could also work for the two other The Consul's Heir choices, by simply inserting The Scipians (for Connect) or The Cult (for Make Terms / Overshadow) instead of the other. Although Overshadow probably also requires us to take Brotherhood.
 
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Here are hopefully all the finished plans I could find so far. I have grouped them by their choice for The Consul's Heir. Ordering them via Personal actions, which are at least as important, was sadly too much effort. Still, I hope this helps (Clicking on the Quotes should bring you to the main argument post for that plan):
-[] Make Terms
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
--[] Scaevola
-[] The Marians
-[] The Crone of Bithynia
-[] The Cult
-[] The King Without A Crown
-[] The Prince
-[] Study


-[] Make Terms
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Cicero
-[] The Cult
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] The City of the Kings of Asia
-[] Study
-[] Para Bellum
-[] The General
-[] Overshadow
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Scaevola
-[] Brotherhood
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] Para Bellum
-[] The Cult
-[] The City of the Kings of Asia
-[] Study
-[] Connect
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Cicero
-[] The Marians
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] Para Bellum
-[] Study
-[] The Crone of Bithynia
-[] The Prince


-[] Connect
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Scaevola
-[] Brotherhood
-[] Seafaring
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] Para Bellum
-[] Res Publica
-[] Study


-[] Connect
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[]
Correspondence
--[]
Cicero
-[] The Scipians
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] The Crone of Bithynia
-[] The City of the Kings of Asia
-[] The Prince
-[] Study


-[] Connect
-[] Training
-[] Promote Centurion
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Cicero
-[] The Scipians
-[] The Marians
-[] The Prince
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] Para Bellum
-[] Study


-[] Connect
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Training
-[] Correspondence
--[] Scaevola
-[] The Scipians
-[] Brotherhood
-[] Para Bellum
-[] Study
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] The Crone of Bithynia

Quick note: I feel that some plans could also work for the two other The Consul's Heir choices, by simply inserting The Scipians (for Connect) or The Cult (for Make Terms / Overshadow) instead of the other. Although Overshadow probably also requires us to take Brotherhood.
Missing my plan here:
[] Plan Love of the Legion and various Studies.
 
Even with approval voting, well-reasoned discussion and posts can sway the vote or the choice — if two plans are neck and neck and I see a very good argument for one, that can and will tip the scales.
If anything, well reasoned discussion tends to find it easier to flip an approval vote than a straight First Past The Post vote. First Past the Post vote requires either a mass shift or...annoying attention grabs.

Approval votes do mean that you can't rest on your laurels because your preferred plan might easily swing away if someone else was very convincing while you're asleep or at work. But such is Roman Politics.
 
Your plan has an either-or choice. I didn't want to start adding multiple plans, with minimal variation, by the same users. If you tell me your final choice, I will edit it in!
I think I'll go with Crone, after all. Mundane connections are well and good, but they will be something for the future, while supernatural is a wildcard that might be of benefit right now. And I am just interested in it, too.
 
I mean, we're fighting as Legion co-commander directly below Marius in his war against Sulla. I think the fence sitting has officially ended at this point. We can argue the point of whether we're a Marian all we want, but if Sulla wins we're probably going to be killed in his purge, provided we don't fall in the field.
Or flip a legion to him.

Our youth and connections to Scaevola may save us if we actually DO something for Sulla, in that scenario.

Oh, also Marius just stripped a Consul of Imperium. This terrifies me and I hope he dies right after beating Sulla. He's too dangerous to the stability of the Republic.
Yeah. He's doing what he thinks is best for Rome, but he's been so powerful for so long that his "I am the state" schtick is very heavily reinforced. That kind of power is super dangerous, even in the hands of someone who's trying NOT to break the political exception by spitting on too many rules.

That would important to note, if our equipment was actually shoddy. But "not pristine" doesn't sound to me like important enough to do immediately. Maybe after another few battles.
It bears remembering that we don't necessarily get to decide how much marching and fighting we do between opportunities for the troops to recharge and re-equip.

@Telamon, would studying seafaring actually help us avoid getting sea-sick? It seems a bit unintuitive that knowledge about seafaring would have any effect on whether or not we get sea-sick.
One thing you might learn in the process of getting Seafaring XP is "seasickness remedies."

Another thing you might get is "actual experience seafaring." High level Seafaring does not, realistically, represent purely theoretical knowledge, any more than Command is purely theoretical knowledge of commanding troops.

...Okay, I figured out who this is. And we should avoid this action like the plague. Here is Nicomedes. He's king of Bithynia, and he's gay. That in itself isn't the problem. The problem is, he's king, he's a pederast, and Roman culture does not approve of being the junior partner in a homosexual relationship. (Basically: it's manly to penetrate, but it's womanly to be penetrated). Julius Caesar came to Nicomedia c. 80 BC, and spent a lot of time in the company of Nicomedes... and suffered slurs and slanders for it for his entire career. ("Julius Caesar laid Gaul low. Nicomedes laid Caesar low" -- that sort of thing). And that was Julius Caesar, who only overcame that reputational hit by being Julius frickin' Caesar. We're not a minor charisma deity, so we have no chance. If we spend time with Nicomedes, we'll be in danger of getting tarred with the same brush. Let's stay far far away.
Yeah, I mentioned this. The one thing Atellus has going for him here is that at the moment, Nicomedes is de facto sidelined in his own palace by Marius. By contrast, Julius Caesar was a refugee hiding from Sulla's purges while Nicomedes reigned supreme in Bithynia. This made it much harder for Caesar to defend himself against accusations of being Nicomedes' butt-boy. Atellus miiiight be able to avoid that, but it's a gamble. So yeah.

Ptolemy is a Pharaoh. Egypt is the biggest prize in the entire Mediterranean -- there's a reason Julius Caesar and Antony and Octavian all fought over Egypt. This particular Ptolemy is probably not long for the world, but meeting him will gain us influence and information about Egypt, and pave the way for future actions to draw that land into our orbit. This is much more long-term (delayed gratification) than touring the city of Nicomedia, but the upside is significantly greater.
Good point.

"Staff tribune" isn't the same as "tribune who is chief of staff." The staff tribune is simply an officer with the rank of 'tribune' who was chosen by the commander of a legion, as opposed to being a broad-striped tribune chosen by the Senate (like Atellus) or a regular tribune elected by the masses (like Rufus).

Now, in a real sense the mass of servants Scipio Asiaticus brought us may constitute a 'staff,' but one could equally well argue that the REAL staff of the legion is men like Carcellus, and those men are (for now) more loyal to us than to Cassianus.

@Telamon I have to agree with this sentiment, that roll should probably depend more on Health than knowledge about how to sail. Alternatively, if just being on a ship is part of that skill, then I would've expected EXP gain from simply crossing the Mediterranean on one.
I do think @Telamon is right to make Seafaring skill relevant to efforts to avoid seasickness. With that said, some Seafaring XP gain might be appropriate. Then again, it wouldn't necessarily be much. It may make a difference whether you take time on the voyage to actively push yourself to engage with your environmen, or whether you just grimly tolerate it and try to function anyway. Atellus did the latter.
 
It bears remembering that we don't necessarily get to decide how much marching and fighting we do between opportunities for the troops to recharge and re-equip.
We're not the only one who understands the importance of workable equipment. If it'll be in Marius' choice, we will be given the opportunity to rearm ourselves. And while it's possible that the war goes badly enough that we wouldn't have the chance, I do not think it is particularly likely.
 
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That was Gaius Papirus Carbo. This is Gnaeus Papirus Carbo.

Two absolutely different people. :V

The Gaius Papirus Carbo you bested was the son of the consul of the same name of 120 BC.

Gnaeus is his more famous cousin, who OTL was the second most powerful of the Marians after Marius' death, and became their leader after Cinna's murder.

Don't get them confused with Gnaeus' father, Gnaeus Papirus Carbo, consul in 113, or his brother, Gaius' father, Gaius Papirus Carbo, consul of 120. Their grandfather, the praetor Gaius Papirius Carbo, is obviously right out.
[TWITCH]

FUCKIT, overthrowing the Republic to resolve the name shortage!

I don't believe in this arrangement of mutual benefit. There is only one man the legionaries can love most, only one man they go to with their grievances first, only one man who can lead the men into battle, only one man who ultimately gets to ride at the forefront of the army.
The problems of shared command are real, but it bears remembering that the Sixth was very loyal to Sertorius and quite loyal to us, at the same time. Cassianus' interests aren't actually mutually exclusive with ours here; we can both succeed rather than undermining each other and in the process probably weakening a legion that badly needs to be strong.

Well, he won't be a loyal subordinate either way, even with making connections. Young Roman men of clearly similar ambitions, both risers who seek greatness and glory and have clear significant skills, will at best be in friendly competition.

However, I think people should be careful. While it's certainly possible for this to be a fight, if Cassianus turns out to be a jerk, let's also think about the potential opportunity. A young man around our age with some commonalities could be a political asset that is transformed into a political partnership. Building such a friendship early could turn into a great investment later, and it is wise to build friends that are entirely detached from the typical factions or patronage relationships that one might expect in this cutthroat, tightrope walking world we live in.
Right.

I mean, it's not like we automatically started viewing Cicero as a rival, even though he's in pretty much the same age bracket as Cassianus and will likewise be seeking some of the same offices we do.

[Heck, didn't Atellus once tell us that thee was one person in Rome who would never betray us, even though we'd normally be predisposed to never trust them? It'd be hialrious if Cassianus was that guy. :p ]

If Cassianus fought in the Battle of Tolenus... he would have served under Marius directly. That is, unless he was one of the (very) few survivors of Rutilius' army, at which point he was presumably transferred to the command of Strabo (rather than remain in his original legion to fight for Marius). Still, it's odd that he doesn't mention any further details -- like "I fought for you in the Battle of Tolenus" or "you saved my bacon in the Battle of Tolenus". It's also odd that the Battle of Tolenus is the only battle Cassianus actually mentions, given how mixed its legacy was: yes, it was a Roman victory, and the Italians were driven from the field, but a serving Consul died, and so did half of a legion, and the occasion was marked by several days of public mourning in Rome. On the other hand, Cassianus may be counting on Marius having fonder memories of the battle since it was his victory -- and perhaps this is why Marius comments on Cassianus being a 'flatterer'.
We've seen that Marius doesn't exactly have a lot of reverence for the office of consul. :p
 
Canon Omake: A Sullan Meeting
A Sullan meeting.

"A truly splendid speech," Mamercus Aemilius said as he surveyed the ancient city bustling with life, even in the late afternoon. The son-in-law of Sulla had announced his visit as soon as reliable sources confirmed what rumours carried to the city at the Tiber. Now they sat on the balcony of the Domus Mucia overseeing the greatest city in the world, the sun still high in the sky and hot as ever.

He had even brought a copy of young Atellus's speech at Aquilonia as a gift.

"At first I thought it madmen's talk, some fantasy spun by bored wash women, but to think that the Pentri of all the stubborn tribes in Samnium would bend the knee to a boy barely a man because of carefully chosen words and a few promises," he shakes his head with a disbelieving smile, "a capable student met a masterful teacher, that must be this mystery's resolution."

Scaevola Pontifex, the voice of the gods and highest ranking priest in the Republic, reclined and studied his guest's face, before bringing his golden cup to his lips.

"Please spare me the flattery, my friend, I had to endure Cinna's lapdogs, those hypocrites and rats, tell me much the same since the senate ended the session."

Not Cinna himself, of course, who had spun the news as a great victory for Sertorius and the Marians. As if no one knew by now that Sertorius was sieging Nola and had not seen Bovianum in his life.

"Still, you know I'm not two faced like Janus, saying flattering words from one mouth, while my other plots in the dark," Mamercus said, contemplating. Then he turned to the Pontifex Maximus, a grave face now sitting where before there had been a small smile.

"With Samnium nearly pacified Sertorius and his legion will have to find new places to bring the 'glory of Rome' to, and I fear that that will be at the side of Marius," the name of their shared hated foe dripped with venom.

The older man snorted however, before turning his eyes to Rome and in the direction of the Campus Martius. A frown grew in his features.

"Cinna is too much a coward to send more men, and especially Sertorius, to the east. He would leave Italia open to invasion from Africa and Hispania, and he would be at the mercy of that butcher's boy," the thought of Pompeius made him huff in exasperation, "No, he will not send Sertorius to aid Marius and have them hatch plans against him, if he even survives alone without any men and capable generals to call upon."

Scaevola's guest said nothing at first, before grabbing grapes and slowly consuming them, one after another. In silence they sat, Scaevola mustering the other man, before Mamercus raised his voice again.

"Hispania then. Cinna is not corrupting every ear resceptive to his refuse against Sertorius to let him in Italy with a legion to command. And Sertorius knows the lay of the land in the west better than in the south", now it was the younger man's time to snort, "those three, they are like starving rabbid dogs. They'll bark in unison at any man approaching them, but left on their own they circle each other, each afraid to be the first to attack and leave himself open. When one dies..."

Mamercus trailed off, but Scaevola knew what his guest was speaking off. How could he not, when Marius' near death had driven his rabble into a frenzy, burning, killing and looting before he stopped them, this time of his own volition. Oh, what had become of Rome.

And Marius was but a man, and time conquered even one such as him. Scaevola knew of the heat in Asia from his youth, knew of the soldier's life on campaign. The thought was preposterous and even Marius, bred for war, would not withstand it for years.

"We will have to make preparations for when Cinna hears the news. He'll unleash his snakes and murderers to take control of the city fully when the time comes."

Sulla's son-in-law nodded, before letting out a long suffering sigh.

"Trapped with lowlives, fools and flatterers. We can't leave Rome and abandon her to him, and yet we are waiting in this city for the spark from the east which will set it ablaze, the inferno which will be coming for us first, I'm afraid."

"Speaking of being trapped in an impossible situation," now Mamercus' eyes grew sharper as he faced his host," will you speak against the Sixth marching off to war under Sertorius when the time comes?"

Ah, the Pontifex Maximus had waited for this question. His patronage of young Atellus had raised more than a few eyebrows, both of the hated Marians and his allies alike. Atellus' due dilligence in the matter of that fool Pompeius' plan had quieted the voices among Sulla's partisans, his accomplishments and services even granting Scaevola some measure of popular support back.

For now of course, as all things, especially plebeian support, were fleeting in this city of Romulus.

Still, reports of his closeness to Sertorius had brought back old voices of doubt, and had prompted Scaevola to write his student in hopes he would distance himself from the legate.

It could mean that even Scaevola's considerable influence could not save him from Sulla's wrath. For reasons still a mystery to the old priest Sertorius and Sulla shared a burning hatred for each other. Only the gods knew of the reason.

Mayhaps there was none and they were simply like cat and dog, unable to suffer each other's presence in this world.

"I might."

"Your protoge's choice in teachers has been questionable as of late."

Scaevola carefully measured his words as he knew that despite the veneer of moderation surrounding the man, there were many good reasons to distrust Sertorius' influence on the boy.

"A bright mind like him takes up knowledge and experience as if he was a sponge," Scaevola replied, his mind flickering back to teaching the young man of oratory, the sacred Roman law and even talking about the proper administration of a people, lessons he had put to good use with the Pentri, "He is bred for war, Lucius Cingulattus saw to impart of what he knew," a hint of regret coloured the priest's voice," believe me when I say that I wish to see him flourish under the tutelage of Sulla, but he is in Greece and Cinna did not see fit to put men of our ranks in command of the new legions."

"Yes, however the boy is Lucius's son, a personal friend to Sertorius. As you said."

"And an outspoken enemy of Cinna, before he retired," Scaevola added, remembering old arguments.

"Lucius was a people's soldier, fighting to take away rights belonging to the senate, that is true. He was a man of ideals, however, one who would not turn Roman swords on this city and butcher indiscriminitaly as this so called 'Third Founder', and he would not rouse the rabble and send them with daggers to kill his enemies," Scaevola said, speaking of his opinion on his old enemy, "He was not one of us, but he was not one of these monstrous Marians, either."

There was much to be said of the difference between a man fighting for the rights of the downtrodden, even if he was in the wrong, and powerhungry and glory seeking pests, trampling the ancient and sacred laws and traditions as they saw fit, hacking away at the constitution in pursuit of power.

"Of course, a Marian ally would also not have come to us when Pompeius thought of killing us all and he would have sought out Marian patrons."

Mamercus let out another sigh, weary of the argument. What had been said just now, had been said before. He turned back to the city, drinking in the view from the Palatine Hill.

"You are right of course, my friend. Still I hope that a talented boy such as your Atellus won't find his end when Sulla returns."

Scaevola turned to Rome as well, pondering. Was he truly right? Scaevola knew of Atellus' youthful ideals, which were much the same as his father's before him. A man such as him would be a powerful opponent in public life, but that would not be Scaevola's fight. A new generation was waiting for old titans to fight their last war, as they planned to form the Republic in their image as the Olympians did when the reign of the Titans ended.

He would not see Atellus' vision of Rome, one birthed from his ideals and the experiences he would make. The boy, so revulsed by the chaos of Marius' near death, would however surely be a populares of a different breed. One that would be fought, but could be respected.


---------

Eh, what the hell. It fought me at least for a week, so whatever.
 
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The big issue with such a plan is not going down in Roman history as a traitor or a military incompetent, either of which reputations would be fatal to our future prospects.
 
The big issue with such a plan is not going down in Roman history as a traitor or a military incompetent, either of which reputations would be fatal to our future prospects.
Yeah, it wouldn't be easy to execute, if we decide to do something like that. To both win (or at least not lose hard) the battle and manage to kill most prominent Marians here would require quite a feat. Though, if we did manage to get Marius and his allies killed, we could probably try to throw all the fault for the unsuccessful battle on him even some or most of it was because of us, especially as we would be going to Sulla.
 
Quick note: I feel that some plans could also work for the two other The Consul's Heir choices, by simply inserting The Scipians (for Connect) or The Cult (for Make Terms / Overshadow) instead of the other. Although Overshadow probably also requires us to take Brotherhood.
I think that The Consul is more important than The scipians for connect this turn, and furthermore that IT SHOULD BE THE FIRST ACTION LISTED for the connect strategy, if only because he has no plans now after meeting the Marius wrecking ball. He can be more easily redirected into a course of supporting his son fully as opposed to whatever terrible ideas he can have if we do not go to him immediately. In fact, my current vote would actually be
[] Plan Greek Focus
-[] Connect
-[] Promote Centurions
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[] Brothers in Arms
-[] Correspondence
--[] Cicero
-[] The Scipians
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] The City of the Kings of Asia
-[] Study
-[] Para Bellum
-[] The General

Apart from the change there, I still feel that our interests are best served by the longshot of trying to get Marius to make us the anti-greek guy. (my second choice is still Thyreus's plan, though the debate over who to write to is yet to come)
 
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The problems of shared command are real, but it bears remembering that the Sixth was very loyal to Sertorius and quite loyal to us, at the same time. Cassianus' interests aren't actually mutually exclusive with ours here; we can both succeed rather than undermining each other and in the process probably weakening a legion that badly needs to be strong.
True, but Sertorius was the undisputed number 1 and we were his right hand. We weren't equals arranging ourselves for the glory of Rome.
 
I think that The Consul is more important than The scipians for connect this turn, and furthermore that IT SHOULD BE THE FIRST ACTION LISTED for the connect strategy, if only because he has no plans now after meeting the Marius wrecking ball. He can be more easily redirected into a course of supporting his son fully as opposed to whatever terrible ideas he can have if we do not go to him immediately. In fact, my current vote would actually be
The Consul is likely to have a much higher DC. He is currently under watch by Marius and there is a good chance we would actually be send away when trying to meet him. That said, if we succeed there we might be able to convince both the consul and the legion to go over to Sulla.
Also, updated your edited plan!
 
The Consul is likely to have a much higher DC. He is currently under watch by Marius and there is a good chance we would actually be send away when trying to meet him. That said, if we succeed there we might be able to convince both the consul and the legion to go over to Sulla.
Also, updated your edited plan!
That doesn't sound like a higher DC, that sounds like a separate CHA roll to get to him in the first place. The DC for actually dealing with him will probably be quite reduced given his shaken state.

Also, in terms of being turned away, why? We haven't given Marius any reason to be suspicious yet (unless we write to our patron, anyway).
 
Either way, the vauge possibility that Marius might want to turn us away and we might fail to roll well enough to persuade him is not enough to make me think that striking while the iron is hot on the frustratingly high DC to talk with Asiaticus is worth less that getting to know his entourage.
 
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