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Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome

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Gantolandon said:
I'm not sure if a truly great military commander can afford to be bad at logistics. Delegating it to underlings works on a tactical scale, bit no strategy is sound without taking it into account. It's better to earn it early, rather than be made a consul and discover we can't make a strategic plan worth a second glance.
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Alexander the Great had a Stewardship of 4 and a Logistics of 2.

We can get people for that, basically.
 
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Gantolandon said:
I get it, but I'm afraid that we'll be kicking the can down the road until logistics suddenly proves useful and Atellus fails the test horribly.
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If logistics are one thing, it's "not sudden". It's hard for me to think of circumstances where we really wouldn't be able to delegate to anyone. This is a pretty safe can to kick down the road for some time.
DearestAnnabel said:
There is also the factor of just how many points we need - our next Military threshold is 7500 XP away, so even if we sink all our free 4800 XP into it it's not going to help us rank up in the nearest future, while the Logistics demands are much lower (I mean, our next rank is literally 102 XP away rn), so our free XP bounty is going to make much more difference there.
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We're actually only 6400 XP away, so 1600 after adding free XP. It's within reach, though it is unlikely for us to get it before the battle. At least Proficient Logistics - the point at which it would make sense for us to stop delegating to generic officers - is 25 thousand XP away. I think our XP bounty is going to make much more difference for the former than for the latter.
 
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Dark Abstraction said:
Alexander the Great had a Stewardship of 4 and a Logistics of 2.

We can get people for that, basically.
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Alexander's army also mutinied on him after he marched so far from his supply base that even the experienced generals he delegated to couldn't keep up with the logistical strain of marching troops half a continent away from the nearest supply base.

Delegation can only do so much and we have far less competent logistics officers than Alexander did. . .
 
KnightofTempest said:
Alexander's army also mutinied on him after he marched so far from his supply base that even the experienced generals he delegated to couldn't keep up with the logistical strain of marching troops half a continent away from the nearest supply base.

Delegation can only do so much and we have far less competent logistics officers than Alexander did. . .
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We're also not conquering half the known world, so I feel like the officers we got are perfectly alright for the situation. More importantly, they are more skilful than we are going to be for a while, whether or not we spend XP, so they are going to be what we use anyhow.
 
agumentic said:
We're also not conquering half the known world, so I feel like the officers we got are perfectly alright for the situation. More importantly, they are more skilful than we are going to be for a while, whether or not we spend XP, so they are going to be what we use anyhow.
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Woo wow we are not conquering half the know world? That is news to me. I thought we were going to conquer west Africa, Pontiac, Syria, and Gaul.
 
Nurgle said:
Woo wow we are not conquering half the know world? That is news to me. I thought we were going to conquer west Africa, Pontiac, Syria, and Gaul.
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Also possibly Armenia depending on which way Tigranes jumps during any upcoming wars.

Coele Syria looks like a pretty tempting target in the event of a Roman Civil War after all. . .
 
KnightofTempest said:
Also possibly Armenia depending on which way Tigranes jumps during any upcoming wars.

Coele Syria looks like a pretty tempting target in the event of a Roman Civil War after all. . .
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Cassianus mess up his invasion so much we could do far better by actually being smart about it. But I look forward to invading west Africa. Potential for a lot of money through trade and slaves.
 
Nurgle said:
Woo wow we are not conquering half the know world? That is news to me. I thought we were going to conquer west Africa, Pontiac, Syria, and Gaul.
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Well, when we get to that, we can spend our free XP on then probably good Logistics. While we are still moving around Asia Minor, we can live with generic officers and their Proficient logistics and spend XP on becoming better at commanding battles.
 
To sum it up:

Adhoc vote count started by Noroboro on Aug 30, 2020 at 11:06 PM, finished with 189 posts and 33 votes.
  • 34
    [x] Vae Victus
    [X] Plan Well-Oiled Machine
    -[x] Reward the Officers: The camp officers, the prefects, even the other Tribunes -- these men have served finely and with distinction these last months, from Samnium to Sardis, and deserve reward. The officers range from plebian to patrician, so there is no class divide here, merely one of rank. There are, you are well aware, men with decades of seniority in the legions who, unlike the centurions Pompolussa and Carcellus, do not appreciate being placed under boys years their younger. Some coin might soften their harsh feelings on the matter, you imagine.
    -[x] Run Drills: Over the next few days, you gather with Cassianus in the dim pre-dawn outside the city to run your troops through your paces. It would do well for you and him to be better prepared to work together, and for your troops to be well-oiled come the fight.
    -[X] Assemble The Officers: Your legion's lifeblood is it's centurions, it's prefects and it's soldiers. Making sure they work well together and can improvise in the heat of battle is important. You will do something unorthodox and spend several hours a day drilling the officers alone.
    -[X] Rest: You have been marching for days, and the life of a tribune is busy and hectic. It dawns upon you that you have not had a proper night's sleep in quite a while. Perhaps you should get one for a few days.
    [X] Plan Romans, One and All
    -[X] Reward the Legion: You try to reward everyone equally, but there is not an equal amount to go around. Some will get more and some will get less, it is the way of things. You will try to use your skill for coin to apportion things as fairly as possible, and if that fails, perhaps your charisma will be enough to paper over the cracks.
    -[x] Run Drills: Over the next few days, you gather with Cassianus in the dim pre-dawn outside the city to run your troops through your paces. It would do well for you and him to be better prepared to work together, and for your troops to be well-oiled come the fight.
    -[x] Requisition Rations: It might cost some silver out of your own pocket, but you pay to have enough food gathered out of the city to treat your men to a better breakfast than to which they are generally used. They might die soon, after all.
    -[X] Rest: You have been marching for days, and the life of a tribune is busy and hectic. It dawns upon you that you have not had a proper night's sleep in quite a while. Perhaps you should get one for a few days.
    [X] Plan Drilling, Food and Sleep
    -[x] Reward the Officers: The camp officers, the prefects, even the other Tribunes -- these men have served finely and with distinction these last months, from Samnium to Sardis, and deserve reward. The officers range from plebian to patrician, so there is no class divide here, merely one of rank. There are, you are well aware, men with decades of seniority in the legions who, unlike the centurions Pompolussa and Carcellus, do not appreciate being placed under boys years their younger. Some coin might soften their harsh feelings on the matter, you imagine.
    -[x] Run Drills: Over the next few days, you gather with Cassianus in the dim pre-dawn outside the city to run your troops through your paces. It would do well for you and him to be better prepared to work together, and for your troops to be well-oiled come the fight.
    -[x] Requisition Rations: It might cost some silver out of your own pocket, but you pay to have enough food gathered out of the city to treat your men to a better breakfast than to which they are generally used. They might die soon, after all.
    -[X] Rest: You have been marching for days, and the life of a tribune is busy and hectic. It dawns upon you that you have not had a proper night's sleep in quite a while. Perhaps you should get one for a few days.
    [x] Plan Rome Invicta
    -[x] Reward the Officers: The camp officers, the prefects, even the other Tribunes -- these men have served finely and with distinction these last months, from Samnium to Sardis, and deserve reward. The officers range from plebian to patrician, so there is no class divide here, merely one of rank. There are, you are well aware, men with decades of seniority in the legions who, unlike the centurions Pompolussa and Carcellus, do not appreciate being placed under boys years their younger. Some coin might soften their harsh feelings on the matter, you imagine.
    -[x] Run Drills: Over the next few days, you gather with Cassianus in the dim pre-dawn outside the city to run your troops through your paces. It would do well for you and him to be better prepared to work together, and for your troops to be well-oiled come the fight.
    -[x] Run Cavalry Drills: The cavalry is exactly as important as they pride themselves on being. The deadly italic horsemen have won many a battle that seemed lost, and as your cavalry mostly sat out the battle at Sardis, you want them in particular well-oiled and ready for the coming combat. As well, it never hurts to ingratiate yourself with the Cavalry prefect, Dolabella.
    -[x] Meet With Marius: You are quite intelligent, but that does not mean you are smart. Despite yourself, you use what influence and clout you have to try and force your way into Marius' inner circle and consult with him on his greater strategy. It is quite unlikely you will gain entry, or that if you do you will be allowed to offer your own ideas on a plan designed and devised by Marius himself. Most commanders, truth be told, would see it as insolence and insubordination. Marius, you have heard, rewards initiative, and perhaps still does.
    [x] Vae Victus
    -[x] Reward the Officers: The camp officers, the prefects, even the other Tribunes -- these men have served finely and with distinction these last months, from Samnium to Sardis, and deserve reward. The officers range from plebian to patrician, so there is no class divide here, merely one of rank. There are, you are well aware, men with decades of seniority in the legions who, unlike the centurions Pompolussa and Carcellus, do not appreciate being placed under boys years their younger. Some coin might soften their harsh feelings on the matter, you imagine.
    -[x] Run Drills: Over the next few days, you gather with Cassianus in the dim pre-dawn outside the city to run your troops through your paces. It would do well for you and him to be better prepared to work together, and for your troops to be well-oiled come the fight.
    -[x] Run Cavalry Drills: The cavalry is exactly as important as they pride themselves on being. The deadly italic horsemen have won many a battle that seemed lost, and as your cavalry mostly sat out the battle at Sardis, you want them in particular well-oiled and ready for the coming combat. As well, it never hurts to ingratiate yourself with the Cavalry prefect, Dolabella.
    -[x] Requisition Rations: It might cost some silver out of your own pocket, but you pay to have enough food gathered out of the city to treat your men to a better breakfast than to which they are generally used. They might die soon, after all.
    [X] Ask Around: You send some troops to interview the local villages and towns about the general layout of the lands near the Maeander for anything which could be advantageous or useful in the coming fight.
    [X] Battle Prep
    -[x] Reward the Officers: The camp officers, the prefects, even the other Tribunes -- these men have served finely and with distinction these last months, from Samnium to Sardis, and deserve reward. The officers range from plebian to patrician, so there is no class divide here, merely one of rank. There are, you are well aware, men with decades of seniority in the legions who, unlike the centurions Pompolussa and Carcellus, do not appreciate being placed under boys years their younger. Some coin might soften their harsh feelings on the matter, you imagine.
    -[x] Run Drills: Over the next few days, you gather with Cassianus in the dim pre-dawn outside the city to run your troops through your paces. It would do well for you and him to be better prepared to work together, and for your troops to be well-oiled come the fight.
    -[X] Assemble The Officers: Your legion's lifeblood is it's centurions, it's prefects and it's soldiers. Making sure they work well together and can improvise in the heat of battle is important. You will do something unorthodox and spend several hours a day drilling the officers alone.
    -[X] Reconnoiter The Battlefield: Though Marius is no doubt doing this himself, you send some of your fastest riders to ride around the likeliest crossing points of the Maeander and get the lay of the land. In a pitched battle like the one which likely awaits you, knowing the lay of the land might be very valuable.
    [X] Reward the Officers: The camp officers, the prefects, even the other Tribunes -- these men have served finely and with distinction these last months, from Samnium to Sardis, and deserve reward. The officers range from plebian to patrician, so there is no class divide here, merely one of rank. There are, you are well aware, men with decades of seniority in the legions who, unlike the centurions Pompolussa and Carcellus, do not appreciate being placed under boys years their younger. Some coin might soften their harsh feelings on the matter, you imagine
    [X] Reconnoiter The Battlefield: Though Marius is no doubt doing this himself, you send some of your fastest riders to ride around the likeliest crossing points of the Maeander and get the lay of the land. In a pitched battle like the one which likely awaits you, knowing the lay of the land might be very valuable.
    [x] Bring balance to the (Roman) Force:
    [x] Reward the Equites
    [x] Run Drills
    [x] Run Cavalry Drills
    [x] Reconnoiter The Battlefield
    [X] Run Drills: Over the next few days, you gather with Cassianus in the dim pre-dawn outside the city to run your troops through your paces. It would do well for you and him to be better prepared to work together, and for your troops to be well-oiled come the fight.
    [X] Plan Preparing for Maeander
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Omake: To Be Roman
  • Apocrypha
    • The people on discord told me to post this here in order to try and get Telamon's attention so that he might continue this quest, so sorry about the necro.

    The Battle of Maeander, 84 B.C. ​


    You crash to the ground, head throbbing in pain as you fall to your hands and knees. Above you stands a Greek, as large as Herakleo and nearly as strong, tossing aside the axe handle he had broken over your helmet. You had been mid-lunge when the blow connected, which is why the wooden shaft had broken over your head and the iron blade didn't go through it.

    "Atellus!" You see Cassianus at the edge of your vision, charging toward you with a handful of legionnaires at his side, "Get up!"

    You already know he won't make it in time, with the Greek already drawing his sword.

    'I can't do it,' You sigh, eyes closing in acceptance, 'It's too hard. He's just too strong.'


    Cingulatus Estate, 89 B.C.​


    "Get up Quintus," Your father commanded, "Again."

    Lucius Cingulatus Atellus, former legate of the Legio X Hispania Invicta, stood over his son, wooden training sword outstretched.

    "I can't fight you Father," You groaned, "It's not fair. You're too strong for me."

    It is not a far fight by any comparison. Your father was the primus pilus of the Tenth, the best soldier of a legion that was so formidable as to be named "Unconquerable". You are a fourteen year old boy, untested in any combat and still a child by any standard.

    You hear your father sigh as he walks over to squat next to you.

    "You are a Roman Quintus," He said, "We have always fought foes too strong for us."

    That got your attention, "But Rome is master of the world, conqueror of a hundred kingdoms and destroyer of dozens more. There are none stronger than us."

    "There are none stronger than us now, my son," He chastised, "But that was not always the case."

    Lucius stood back up and started pacing, something he often did when giving a lecture.

    "The Sabines were more established, and the Latins more numerous. Etruria was greater and the Samnites were more stubborn. The Celts of Hispania and Gaul were more ferocious, and the Greeks ruled the mightiest kingdoms in the world. Under Hannibal, Carthage ran circles around Rome in Italia, our own backyard, destroying armies and humiliating the greatest statesmen and generals Rome could produce. Rome has always faced enemies who were mightier, but none who were better than us."

    Seeing his son still pouting on the ground, Lucius decided to change tactics.

    "Do you know how it is that our ancestor, the first Atellus, came to be Romulus' bodyguard?"

    You shake your head, having never heard the story.

    "Answer me with your words Quintus, it is unbecoming of a future Roman statesman to respond in such a way."

    "No Father."

    "I would have figured your mother would have told you, she always did love telling you and your sister the family history," He sighed, his gaze shifting far away for just a moment before refocusing, "Centuries ago, when Rome was just a handful of men following Romulus and Remus across Italia, Atellus was just the son of a merchant, who had chosen to follow the brothers in hopes of furthering his lot in life.

    "When the brothers first split when choosing the hill to build their city, he chose to follow Romulus, the more charismatic and martial of the two brothers. When the brothers came into dispute, and Romulus struck down Remus, most of his followers fled for fear of repercussions from the dead man's followers. All except Atellus, who stood with Romulus.

    "Atellus was no warrior, and had never been in a fight in his life, but he was not about to forsake the man he had sworn his loyalty to. Together, the two of them stood against Remus' men, and they fought long enough for those who fled to be overcome by shame, and so they returned, and Romulus won the first battle in Rome's history. For his loyalty, Romulus chose to have Atellus at his side at all times, and so he became Romulus' bodyguard.

    "The Cingulatii have always fought on in the face of overwhelming odds. We do not fear death, for we know that to dishonor our ancestors and the trust Romulus put into them, would be far worse."

    "But why must we still fight Father?" You ask, curiosity and grouchiness getting the better of you, "Have we not already won? Who else is there in the Mediterranean that can match us?"

    "That is not the point Quintus," Your father continued, exasperation clear in his voice as he pinched the bridge of his nose, trying to think of how to explain further.

    "My friend, Quintus Sertorius, who I served with in Hispania and whom you are named for, once told me something that I believe explains it rather nicely," Your father said as he finished pacing and turned to look at you, "He said that 'To be Roman is to fight, so to not fight is to not be Roman.' It is our lot in life Quintus. When the gods gave mankind their gifts, they all chose cities in Greece or Etruria to give them to. All except for mighty Mars, who saw our little town and gave it the mightiest yet most unassuming gift of all.

    "The will to fight on. A will so powerful that even after defeat, we can still stand up, dust ourselves off, and then prepare for the next fight, and the fight after that, and the fight after that. If we do not fight, then how can we be Romans? And if we are not Romans, then what is the point of anything we do."

    Once again, your father stands up and moves across from you, holding the training sword up again.

    "Now," He orders, "Get up Quintus."


    The Battle of Maeander, 84 B.C.​


    Your eyes fly open as a memory of your father rushes to the forefront of your mind, and you grit your teeth. You pick up a legionnaire's fallen gladius next to you, and rising to one knee, thrust it forward with all of your strength as the Greek's blade begins to descend.

    The blade drives straight through the man's knee, and he falls with a roar of anger and pain as his sword falls from his hands. Acting quickly, you grab your own sword that had fallen next to you, and sink it into his side before pulling it out and gripping his head.

    "I am Quintus Cingulatus Atellus, Tribune of the Sixth Legion, Blessed by Mars," You hiss at him in Greek, lining your blade up with his throat, "Remember that, and when they ask you in the Underworld who sent you, tell them that name."

    You slide your sword into his neck, and stare him in the eyes, "And tell them to expect many more from me."

    The basic idea around this is that we don't know a lot about Atellus' dad, so I tried to write him as I imagine him. I made up the story about how the first Atellus became Romulus' bodyguard obviously, and Atellus being named after Sertorious is just my headcanon.
     
  • Apocrypha
    • Hannibal probably getting status buff by Baal.

    We get bless by Minerva instead Mars should lead to interesting storyline.
     
    In my own omakes (Leave to the Greek, His Marble Nymphs, And Scrolls of Wordy Lore) I posited that Minerva is responsible for Atellus' special blessing, but Mars just sort of randomly doled out some blessing too because he's a bro like that for Romans who stay on his good side.

    Remember that under polytheism, you don't just monofocus on one god. The same person can be, and hopes to be, blessed by as many gods as they can sweet-talk, and certainly different gods see no problem with 'sharing' a worshipper by aiding them in different capacities.
     
    Simon_Jester said:
    In my own omakes (Leave to the Greek, His Marble Nymphs, And Scrolls of Wordy Lore) I posited that Minerva is responsible for Atellus' special blessing, but Mars just sort of randomly doled out some blessing too because he's a bro like that for Romans who stay on his good side.

    Remember that under polytheism, you don't just monofocus on one god. The same person can be, and hopes to be, blessed by as many gods as they can sweet-talk, and certainly different gods see no problem with 'sharing' a worshipper by aiding them in different capacities.
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    To be fair, for quite a few polytheistic religions, it wasn't nearly as poly as modern depictions show. Pantheons were more often really loose collections of cults to single gods in the same region rather than anything truly organized. This changed under Rome since they had entire parts of the state bureaucracy for the pantheon, but it was actually common to monofocus on one god in most polytheistic religions. A farmer might focus on mostly a god or spirit related to farming in that region (and maybe something related to home), a fisherman might mostly pay attention to sea gods and spirits, etc.
     
    PyrrosWarrior said:
    To be fair, for quite a few polytheistic religions, it wasn't nearly as poly as modern depictions show. Pantheons were more often really loose collections of cults to single gods in the same region rather than anything truly organized. This changed under Rome since they had entire parts of the state bureaucracy for the pantheon, but it was actually common to monofocus on one god in most polytheistic religions. A farmer might focus on mostly a god or spirit related to farming in that region (and maybe something related to home), a fisherman might mostly pay attention to sea gods and spirits, etc.
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    I mean, most of their actual sacrificing might go to the gods most directly related to whatever they do for a living, but that didn't mean they weren't praying to others, or didn't make reference to others when it was appropriate.

    As I understand it for example, if you lived in Greece and there was an earthquake that didn't smash your house, you'd damn sure be giving thanks to Poseidon the lord of earthquakes along with everyone else, even if you'd never had much of anything to do with Poseidon in your life.
     
    We should increase our Poseidon worship too if we want to improve our naval power.

    Maybe we should invade the east and fight the "Son of Heaven" in the east.:V
     
    Yeah. It was a nice experience that I don't think could be easily recaptured without, y'know, going through a couple of dozen updates to build the momentum.
     
    Simon_Jester said:
    I mean, most of their actual sacrificing might go to the gods most directly related to whatever they do for a living, but that didn't mean they weren't praying to others, or didn't make reference to others when it was appropriate.

    As I understand it for example, if you lived in Greece and there was an earthquake that didn't smash your house, you'd damn sure be giving thanks to Poseidon the lord of earthquakes along with everyone else, even if you'd never had much of anything to do with Poseidon in your life.
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    Not necessarily. My point wasn't "they worshipped only those related to what they do for a living." My point was that the gods were regional and tended to be monofocused in a region. The occupational examples were more to show that regions very obviously dedicated themselves to what was relevant to their surroundings (desert gods for desert people, sea gods for coastal people, etc).

    Step out of the Graeco-Roman mindset for a second. As I said in the first post, they were rather unique as to the extent they institutionalized and formalized religious practices, and thus make a terrible example for polytheism as a general trend. Even Egypt, for as much institutionalization they had at times (depending on the dynasty and era), was largely split into regions of cults with some being dedicated to only Isis or only Thoth and so on.*

    You have to remember for most cultures, religion was very much an informal and cultural thing. Formalization and pantheon worship tended to happen most often when the state (in comparison to its contemporaries) was actually strong enough to enforce religion as a state religion rather than just an extension of cultural practice. Most "pantheons" are more just a modern reconstruction of tales from the same region rather than a true thing of multiple gods whom the people had faith in and prayed to in the same vein we think of religion today.

    The general summary of what I'm saying is that collective cultures worshipped and prayed to pantheons. Individuals usually only focused on one, maybe two or three in the case of a duo or trinity being heavily associated with one another (usually a family of overlapping roles), god but rarely more unless they were a king or soldier or the like.

    *As a side note, that is the origin of why a lot of cultures have conflicting portrayals between different myths. In continuing with the Egyptian example, the Cult of Set was the dominant religion in one part of Egypt at one point but it worshipped the Set that was married to Nephthys and was a great hero against fighting Apophis. In other regions of Egypt, Set was instead a chaotic and evil god that should never be worshipped, and was portrayed as the unmarried god whom killed Osiris. You'd get similar depictions of other gods depending on which god the region monofocused on, such as the Cult of Isis or the Cult of Thoth.
     
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    Yeah Telamon, continue the quest or give us an epilogue. Preferably continue the quest.
     
    Alright guys, let's just remember that Telamon is probably busy with IRL stuff. He could be dealing with college or just problems. Pressuring and demanding things from him isn't going to make him come back. If anything, he'll probably be pushed away. Let's just be understanding and if the quest is dead, it's dead.
     
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