Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
[X] The Quixotic Quest
Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wait, @Telamon I have assumed that you are rolling behind the scenes to see how events go and whether or not they will follow real life or diverge from it, like with Marius' surviving. Is this correct? You are rolling behind the scene to see go things play out beyond Atellus' view point and they diverge from what happened in real life?
- Location
- Central Europe
My main issue with going to Hispania is that we are more likely than not gonna see the "controller" of Rome turn hostile to Seratorius. Neither Sulla nor Cinna (depending on whether Marius dies before or after winning in the East) are likely to look kindly at a Seratorian powerbase in Hispania. By proxy our advancement in Roman society would be hindered either way (ofc more so after an optimate victory). Especially, if Sulla wins we are probably gonna be forced to decided between betraying Seratorius or de facto exile from Rome. Personally, I don't wanna be stuck in Hispania for the rest of the life of this Quest.
So, since I also don't look forward to potentially having to betray our fathers old friend I will take my chances elsewhere and try to stay unaligned until the civil war has blown over.
So, since I also don't look forward to potentially having to betray our fathers old friend I will take my chances elsewhere and try to stay unaligned until the civil war has blown over.
If Sulla wins, then this is not really a choice Seratorius gets to make.
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- Location
- USA
Sadly, it looks like he has been offline since this morning. But it looks like people are comfortable enough that when he gets online he shouldn't have problems changing it.
Also, hope we go with Sertorius. Rome isn't a place we want to be right now with no protection and a powerful Pompey hating our guts. If we stay, our plan seems to basically boil down to "hope/pray for the best and that we don't get screwed over". If we go with Sertorius we at least make our own choice. And we will be on the ground floor for the future that Sertorius tries to build in the West. There is plenty of glory to be found there, the area isn't fully pacified yet. As well as wealth and prestige. Being the first one (or one of the first ones) that Sertorius asks to come with him and the first to say yes should also help with our relationship with him, maybe a future as his right hand if things go well. Besides having Sertorius as a mentor and learning even more from his feet sounds pretty amazing. Mentors and patrons that are the caliber of Sertorius don't come around very often.
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A Nation's Virtue
南國山河南帝居
[X] The Quixotic Quest
Telamon
A corvid.
- Location
- Texas
That is a correct assumption, yes.
Someone neglected to tell Marius that a -8 modifier means he should drop fucking dead
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think it would be possible to bring Atellus' family with us. If the Sixth doesn't go with Sertorius and he calls in a favour to get our tribune ended, I believe Atellus could get his family to come with him and if it could be done without our tribuneship, I believe it could be done if we remain with the Sixth.
As for Scaevola, Plan Quixotic Quest has us meeting with him to try and get us to end our mentorship on good terms or at least try and salvage something from our relationship. Things might not work out, but Plan Quixotic Quest specifically has us trying paying attention to Scaevola and our relationship with him even if we do go with Sertorius. It might not be good enough, but it is the best that we can do while accepting Sertorius' offer.
With Sulla winning the civil war, I'll admit I got nothing to address that. I can say that he might not and frankly, we don't know as things are already different to real life. From what I have read on Wikipedia (which I means not fully understand how things went down), Marius should already be dead and the war that should be starting for another two or three years has already begun. So Sulla might win, he might lose. I got enough to address that beyond he might lose the civil war.
Noroboro
Consistency is key and I’m consistently tired :)
- Location
- Canada
Hmm... Alright, I'm just thinking of too many variable, and the civil war will ultimately come down to the dice. But I do want to see Atellus because something like Caesar but with our own spin. Who knows, maybe we'll conquer Germania instead of Gaul, but I'll change my vote to Quixtoic Quest
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Can I convince folks to vote for Plan Quixotic Quest? It might not be the most optimal choice according to history and may force us down a certain path, but I feel it is the most interesting path for the quest to take. I feel it is an excellent opportunity for Atellus to make his mark on history and establish himself as a famous person who people in the future will read about in their history books.
I would also much rather take his unique opportunity to seize our destiny rather than (literally) roll the dice to see what happens to us, risking our choices being make for us or us being put into a disfavourable position just for a chance of getting a more favourable position.
Ultimately, I don't want to try and guess what might be the most optimal path and keep us around the longest. I want to do the interesting thing which will make a place in history for Atellus rather than continue to straddle the line in Roman politics to play it safe. Unless we want to fade into obscurity as we continue to keep our head down and avoid committing, we will need to make a choice sooner or latter and I feel now is good time and this is a good choice to make.
I would also much rather take his unique opportunity to seize our destiny rather than (literally) roll the dice to see what happens to us, risking our choices being make for us or us being put into a disfavourable position just for a chance of getting a more favourable position.
Ultimately, I don't want to try and guess what might be the most optimal path and keep us around the longest. I want to do the interesting thing which will make a place in history for Atellus rather than continue to straddle the line in Roman politics to play it safe. Unless we want to fade into obscurity as we continue to keep our head down and avoid committing, we will need to make a choice sooner or latter and I feel now is good time and this is a good choice to make.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
You say that like exile means anything to a Roman with the backing of some legions and at least one provincia
In all seriousness though, I do not believe we should worry about deterministic outcomes. As Telamon has confirmed, history is changing all the time, and not merely butterflies but rather based on events out of our control or cause as well. Going to Hispania gives the opportunity to escape from the intrigue of capital-life and build connections more from the peripheral going inward. The edges of the Republic are far less stagnant politically and thus give the MC more breathing room to change what is happening and insert himself into the local dynamic. That kind of thing can't really happen going back and forth from Rome as a politicking soldier being assigned to multiple parts of the Republic (as would likely happen should we reject Sertorius's offer).
This generally isn't a thing, as far as I recall. Our sisters and retainers (bar one or two of the latter we might be able to bring along) will, in all likelihood, remain in Rome.
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With that, I'll try to effort post a bit to lay out why, in my opinion, going to Spain is a more boring choice.
First, because as I see it, our path would be laid out for a next quite a while. We will be doing nation-building in Spain as Sertorius's protege, protecting it and working with different important people there and all that. And that is all well and good, but personally, I just don't find it interesting - especially as interesting as staying with the Legion and connected to Rome could be. Right now the fate of Rome is hanging on a thread, and it is indeed the time when even an ambitious youth like us could change it. The opportunities and possibilities are endless, even if it's the choice that does make us more dependent on a whims of fate and actions of other players, at least in short term. But just being more dependent doesn't mean at all we will be entirely subject to them, and could very well rapidly become an important figure.
Second, because with our removal from Rome and long haul in Spain, we, pretty much by design, would be removing ourselves from all important figures besides Sertorius. And I don't want that. I want a chance to interact with and change the views and actions of big historical figures I know about soonish. Sertorius alone just doesn't make me very interested, and besides him, practically everyone would be of local importance and go pretty much unrecorded in history.
Third, because when our grace period runs out and someone wins the civil war, our fates will be once again uncertain and dependent on actions of other players - only this time, Rome and all its power would not be hanging on a thread, and I am not certain at all that even Sertorius himself could change what will happen, much less us. If it's Sulla's victory, we're locked into a continuation of a war, and all Roman resources are thrown at us, so the victory becomes very hard. Even if Sulla doesn't win, Marius and Cinna might very well decide that they really don't need any other uncertainties hanging around and still try to remove Sertorius from his power base, by his death or other means. That fate is not locked in, of course, but I find quite probable, and that outcome doesn't interest me.
- Location
- Europe
The people voting for Stay the Course aren't some meta-gamers who read the wiki article on Sulla and saw that he won the civil war. Everybody here already knows that things are different and might be different in the future. I'm voting for it for the same reason that you're voting for Quixotix Quest; I think it's the more interesting/in character choice and it also seems to be the plan that's most likely to succeed, even if you only consider IC information.
Seriously, don't do this. It's annoying. There's nothing particularly unique about the opportunity that Sertorius is offering us here and staying as Scaevola's client doesn't mean we're abandoning all agency. It was with his help that we got the position as broad-stripe tribune in the first place and we were given a broad swathe of options by Scaevola. Leaving now means that we're spitting in his face after he did us a big favor.
- Location
- Somewhere
Fun thought I had, if the Sertorian War were to ever occur, and Pompey takes his OTL role in it, I'm hoping that, if we get the opportunity to kill him, we can say "Quintus Sertorius sends his regards." while stabbing him with a knife.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I personally thinking that some people are overestimating how influential Atellus is going to be. I highly doubt that he will be the guy who decides the fate of Rome, I don't think he is going to be changing the minds of the major players. As Sertorius tells Atellus in the update, he is a nobody right now and I don't see that changing in the next few years as things get decided. We aren't going to get to choose how history plays out by the dint of being the player character because Telamon has stated that we will be getting less and less times where we get to choose how history play out and we will be increasingly limited to what Atellus would actually be able to influence.
We got an in with Sertorius and that is why I think we can influence how things play out there as we have a chance to be his protegee and potentially right hand man. If we didn't have that from our time in the Sixth, I would consider influencing things with him as unlikely as I do with the others. Now, I'm not saying that Atellus isn't going to be influential or be able to help decide how things play out. I just don't think that we are going to be the guy that meets all of the famous people and help them make their decisions. I extremely doubt we are going to be Caesar or Sulla or someone who gets to decide the fate of Rome. I think we will be able to influence it, but I don't think we will be the deciding factor when it comes to the future of Rome.
Yeah, I never said that. I would rather you didn't try to falsely claim that I am dismissing my opposition as meta-gamers.
It is unique. Sertorius is going off to Hispania to build up a powerbase and we are getting offered the chance to be his protegee. I highly doubt that one of the other generals is going to let us offer to be his protegee as he builds up a powerbase so yes, I do feel correct in stating that this is a unique decision. Furthermore, I agree that we won't lose all of our agency if we refuse Sertorius' offer. I just feel that we take a risk of gaining or losing agency depending on how things play out and I feel confident in this belief from what Telamon has said.
So yes, we won't lose all of our agency. In fact, we might gain more agency. We also risk losing agency and/or being forced to pick a side at a potentially disfavourable position.
I highly doubt this turn of events will happen so I don't recommend placing your vote around it happening.
We got an in with Sertorius and that is why I think we can influence how things play out there as we have a chance to be his protegee and potentially right hand man. If we didn't have that from our time in the Sixth, I would consider influencing things with him as unlikely as I do with the others. Now, I'm not saying that Atellus isn't going to be influential or be able to help decide how things play out. I just don't think that we are going to be the guy that meets all of the famous people and help them make their decisions. I extremely doubt we are going to be Caesar or Sulla or someone who gets to decide the fate of Rome. I think we will be able to influence it, but I don't think we will be the deciding factor when it comes to the future of Rome.
Yeah, I never said that. I would rather you didn't try to falsely claim that I am dismissing my opposition as meta-gamers.
It is unique. Sertorius is going off to Hispania to build up a powerbase and we are getting offered the chance to be his protegee. I highly doubt that one of the other generals is going to let us offer to be his protegee as he builds up a powerbase so yes, I do feel correct in stating that this is a unique decision. Furthermore, I agree that we won't lose all of our agency if we refuse Sertorius' offer. I just feel that we take a risk of gaining or losing agency depending on how things play out and I feel confident in this belief from what Telamon has said.
So yes, we won't lose all of our agency. In fact, we might gain more agency. We also risk losing agency and/or being forced to pick a side at a potentially disfavourable position.
I highly doubt this turn of events will happen so I don't recommend placing your vote around it happening.
To add something, I just really don't want to go away - and almost run away, it, admittedly a bit unfairly, feels to me - from Rome as it is right now. Right now everything is uncertain, and I want that, I revel in that and want Atellus to revel in that too. In that uncertainty, there is a road for a practical nobody to become a king of the world, and for a last pauper to challenge gods to a game of dice and beggar them. With will, desire and ability to make our own luck, and of course with a bit of luck not self made, right now someone in Rome can catapult themselves to imminent prominence. And I want a chance for that prominence.
Both Sulla and Caesar started from positions much like ours, and perhaps even worse. We absolutely have a chance to be someone as great as Sulla or Caesar, or maybe even greater than them.
- Location
- Central Europe
We shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking that dice play a larger role in one of these options. Both outcomes are heavily dependent on rolls. For example, Sulla winning would really screw with our ambitions to become Seratorius' heir.
OOC the opportunist in me, taking into account both dice based civil war outcomes, sums it up like this:
Right now we are a popular broad striped tribune in a Legion under Populares leadership (either Seratorius in Spain or his replacement somewhere else).
If Marius wins, then we just have to keep our head down and make ourselves useful until our 10 year term runs out and things have cooled down back in Rome.
If Sulla wins in the east, then we should probably betray the Legate of our Legion and try and make a contribution to the final Optimates victory.
The latter will be much harder, if we serve under Seratorius. Both narratively for Atellus as a character and mechanically since Seratorius is adored by the VI Legion.
OOC the opportunist in me, taking into account both dice based civil war outcomes, sums it up like this:
Right now we are a popular broad striped tribune in a Legion under Populares leadership (either Seratorius in Spain or his replacement somewhere else).
If Marius wins, then we just have to keep our head down and make ourselves useful until our 10 year term runs out and things have cooled down back in Rome.
If Sulla wins in the east, then we should probably betray the Legate of our Legion and try and make a contribution to the final Optimates victory.
The latter will be much harder, if we serve under Seratorius. Both narratively for Atellus as a character and mechanically since Seratorius is adored by the VI Legion.
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- Location
- Somewhere
Nah, this was just for fun, its highly unlikely to happen, I just like the imagery of our hero stabbing Pompey while quoting Roose Bolton.
- Location
- Europe
I... didn't? It was hyperbole meant to make the point more clear. You said that the choice you voted for "might not be the most optimal choice according to history (...) but I feel it is the most interesting path for the quest to take." Which to me indicates that you believe that the people voting for Stay the Course are more guided by what the optimal choice would be according to history rather than , which would make voting for Stay the Course more metagamey than your choice.
There's a bit to unpack here. I didn't say that Sertorius' offer wasn't unique. I said it wasn't particularly unique. I agree that the same circumstances are unlikely to come about again but Atellus is a very competent second-in-command and there are dozens of legions out there with various commanders and many different frontier governors who could use our expertise. It might not be exactly the same but I think it'd be a mistake to accept Sertorius' offer because you don't think we'd get a similar opportunity in the future.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Telamon saying that we won't have our power base for several years. We will only have a power base if once the current events have played out. If we get to choose the fate of Rome, it will be once either Sulla or Marius have won. That said, this is also an argument for refusing the offer as we can build support in Rome. On the flip side, it can also be used a support for accepting the offer as we are in a good position to inherit Sertorius' powerbase if we accept his offer and go to Hispania where our family already has some supporters thanks to Atellus' father.
Sertorius isn't doomed to be rebel and doesn't intend to rebel before he gets forced into it by Sulla winning, something that isn't guaranteed in this timeline.
Telamon commenting on what happens if we refuse the offer. We could get sent anywhere, but Hispania from remaining by Rome, to going up to Gaul to reinforcing Marius in the east to going somewhere out of the way like Africa or Sicily. We might get a good position out of this or we might get put into a worse one where we get forced to commit to a side or get forced into a disfavourable position for picking one side or the other.
Here is Telamon saying that we should make a choice. This is one of the things driving me to vote for accepting Sertorius' offer. It is a good offer and we might not get another one so not taking this good offer in the hopes of getting a better one in the future is something I am wary of.
Here is Telamon commenting on how we, the players, will be getting less choices on how history goes down and will be increasing limited to what Atellus himself is capable of influencing.