Remove ads

Now You Feel Like Number None [Bleach Arrancar Quest]

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
[X] The Tragedy of the Radiant Eye.

It's pretty obvious what's going to win, but I'm a sucker for a good eldritch horror.
 
Andres110 said:
@Omicron, what exactly has this done for us? For Alphonse it unlocked the Marana skill, but that's it. It doesn't seem like the relationship does anything skill-wise besides that. As for Cirucci, training under her doesn't seem to have affected our skills at all except, again, by unlocking a skill.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If training with a master of a skill unlocks either that skill or a secondary skill that's unrelated to it, that's still pretty good. Non-core skills seem to be a good way to improve quickly in niche situations, since they get maxed out much faster.
 
Last edited:
Andres110 said:
@Omicron, what exactly has this done for us? For Alphonse it unlocked the Marana skill, but that's it. It doesn't seem like the relationship does anything skill-wise besides that. As for Cirucci, training under her doesn't seem to have affected our skills at all except, again, by unlocking a skill.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Without Alphonse you wouldn't have Marana, without Cirucci you wouldn't have Style, without Esmeralda you wouldn't have Medicine (she didn't train you in person, but it's through proximity with her and being under her medical care that you unlocked the skill). That seems pretty important to me? You also generally got more XP for sticking around Cirucci and getting involved in her quest for power than you would have for doing your own thing on your own. I didn't specifically lock that XP as "Cirucci is training you in this combat skill so you get XP automatically assigned to it" because I value player agency in deciding Nemo's build, but it's still more XP for training under someone important. On top of that, while it wasn't codified in mechanical traits, Nemo needed Alphonse to successfuly create Jackelton's uniform on a deadline.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, well, what did all Nemo's time with Mantis in the backstory unlock for her?

Nothing.

He didn't even teach her trapsmithing. And clearly the XP gains were nothing to brag about, given where she started the quest.

Don't even get me started on how useless all the time spent with Tsukishima has proved to be. Some best friend he is.
 
Phigment said:
Yeah, well, what did all Nemo's time with Mantis in the backstory unlock for her?

Nothing.

He didn't even teach her trapsmithing. And clearly the XP gains were nothing to brag about, given where she started the quest.

Don't even get me started on how useless all the time spent with Tsukishima has proved to be. Some best friend he is.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
please dont start with that stupid meme.
 
Omicron said:
Without Alphonse you wouldn't have Marana, without Cirucci you wouldn't have Style, without Esmeralda you wouldn't have Medicine (she didn't train you in person, but it's through proximity with her and being under her medical care that you unlocked the skill). That seems pretty important to me? You also generally got more XP for sticking around Cirucci and getting involved in her quest for power than you would have for doing your own thing on your own. I didn't specifically lock that XP as "Cirucci is training you in this combat skill so you get XP automatically assigned to it" because I value player agency in deciding Nemo's build, but it's still more XP for training under someone important. On top of that, while it wasn't codified in mechanical traits, Nemo needed Alphonse to successfuly create Jackelton's uniform on a deadline.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I didn't mean to imply that unlocking the skills wasn't important. It's not what I was getting at.

In the narrative, Alphonse didn't just teach Nemo the barest basics of Maraña and leave her to work out the rest for herself; he's been teaching her and guiding her, so her skill in the craft has been improving faster than if she was trying to work it all out on her own without help. Mechanically, however, all he's done is unlocked the Maraña skill. If a hypothetical metaphorical bus fell on him immediately after he unlocked the skill, Nemo's improvement in Maraña wouldn't have been affected in the slightest.
In the narrative, training is supposed to unlock a skill, but also be an ongoing thing that allows a student to learn faster than if they tried advancing on their own. Mechanically, the only thing training does is unlock a skill. This is a mismatch between narrative and mechanics, which is what I was getting at.
Medicine highlights the mechanics-narrative mismatch. There is narrative reason to explain how Nemo unlocked the skill and is advancing it, that's not the problem. The problem is with how it contrasts with Style - another Mundane skill. Nemo has been learning Style under the keen tutelage of the foremost master of the skill, whereas her skill in Medicine comes purely from experimentation with no one to show her the way. Narratively speaking, Nemo's skill in Style should progress far faster than her skill in Medicine due to the presence of a teacher, but mechanically, there is no difference. Interaction with Esmeralda unlocked the skill and then when the metaphorical bus fell on her (her leaving Hueco Mundo), Nemo's rate of advancement in the skill didn't slow down at all despite the lack of a teacher.

Getting xp in taught skills would've been one way to bridge the gap between mechanics and narrative, but it's understandable why you didn't go with that. That said, it wasn't the only way to bridge the gap. Another way to bridge the gap while keeping player agency is to modify the xp requirements for skill levels like you did before, making them bigger or smaller to represent the presence of a teacher or lack thereof. It's a good simulation and it retains the players' ability to decide Nemo's build.
(One idea I've had is to remove the Unfavoured tag from Combat Arts to represent how if Nemo wanted to learn the skill, she would learn it at the feet of one of the best CA practitioners in Las Noches.)
Even if you don't go with the above idea, I do recommend thinking on a way to bridge the mechanics-narrative gap. This doesn't feel like it's an unfixable issue.

The reason I'm bringing this up now is because of what happened early in Chapter 10.
Omicron said:
"She will teach me," the Bestia says. "That is my price. She will teach me Gran Rey Cero."

It's not fair, you think. I should be the one. The first to whom she should show her secret, the first to learn it from her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Cirucci wants to learn Cero from Nemo, a Master in the skill. Under the current paradigm, there is no mechanical difference between her practicing Cero on her own and getting taught to Cero better by someone who knows how to do it. It won't just be Nemo who'll be the subject to narrative-mechanics mismatch.


As an addendum to all of the above, if there are differences between growing a skill by getting taught and growing a skill by self-learning, then the problem is instead that they haven't been made apparent enough in the story/mechanics.
 
Last edited:
Andres110 said:
I didn't mean to imply that unlocking the skills wasn't important. It's not what I was getting at.

In the narrative, Alphonse didn't just teach Nemo the barest basics of Maraña and leave her to work out the rest for herself; he's been teaching her and guiding her, so her skill in the craft has been improving faster than if she was trying to work it all out on her own without help. Mechanically, however, all he's done is unlocked the Maraña skill. If a hypothetical metaphorical bus fell on him immediately after he unlocked the skill, Nemo's improvement in Maraña wouldn't have been affected in the slightest.
In the narrative, training is supposed to unlock a skill, but also be an ongoing thing that allows a student to learn faster than if they tried advancing on their own. Mechanically, the only thing training does is unlock a skill. This is a mismatch between narrative and mechanics, which is what I was getting at.
Medicine highlights the mechanics-narrative mismatch. There is narrative reason to explain how Nemo unlocked the skill and is advancing it, that's not the problem. The problem is with how it contrasts with Style - another Mundane skill. Nemo has been learning Style under the keen tutelage of the foremost master of the skill, whereas her skill in Medicine comes purely from experimentation with no one to show her the way. Narratively speaking, Nemo's skill in Style should progress far faster than her skill in Medicine due to the presence of a teacher, but mechanically, there is no difference. Interaction with Esmeralda unlocked the skill and then when the metaphorical bus fell on her (when she left Hueco Mundo), Nemo's rate of advancement in the skill didn't slow down at all despite the lack of a teacher.

Getting xp in taught skills would've been one way to bridge the gap between mechanics and narrative, but it's understandable why you didn't go with that. That said, it wasn't the only way to bridge the gap. Another way to bridge the gap while keeping player agency is to modify the xp requirements for skill levels like you did before, making them bigger or smaller to represent the presence of a teacher or lack thereof. It's a good simulation and it retains the players' ability to decide Nemo's build.
(One idea I've had is to remove the Unfavoured tag from Combat Arts to represent how if Nemo wanted to learn the skill, she would learn it at the feet of one of the best CA practitioners in Las Noches.)
Even if you don't go with the above idea, I do recommend thinking on a way to bridge the mechanics-narrative gap. This doesn't feel like it's an unfixable issue.

The reason I'm bringing this up now is because of what happened early in Chapter 10.

Cirucci wants to learn Cero from Nemo, a Master in the skill. Under the current paradigm, there is no mechanical difference between her practicing Cero on her own and getting taught to Cero better by someone who knows how to do it. It won't just be Nemo who'll be the subject to narrative-mechanics mismatch.


As an addendum to all of the above, if there are differences between growing a skill by getting taught and growing a skill by self-learning, then the problem is instead that they haven't been made apparent enough in the story/mechanics.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thanks for reminding me. We should really teach Cirucci to use Grand Rey Cero.
 
===================================
Now You Feel Like Number None Fan Art
Alberto, Marlena and Phylius
===================================
​
 
Huh you know I actually expected to fight over the vote more than this guess king won by a landslide.
Adhoc vote count started by The Phoenixian on Feb 21, 2018 at 7:41 PM, finished with 186 posts and 77 votes.
Click to expand...
 
MonkeyTypewriter said:
Who?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's the real tragedy. New players come, and because it's not in threadmarks, the tragedy and mourning of Di Roy Rinker won't be noticed by them...
Cetashwayo said:
Khepri14 said:
Sure, if people will stop posting about DiRoy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
this thread is now the di roy rinker memorial service thread

post ur diroys and your rinkers

Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Let's reminisce for a moment, about a different time. Time of memes, and the pinch of salt that made it happen.
 
Last edited:
===================================
Now You Feel Like Number None Fan Art
Nemo Elcorbuzier's (Past to Present)
===================================
​
 
chocolote12 said:
Huh. We went from cool looking to boring. How sad. >->

We need a replacement cape.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Pretty sure Coshiua's picture there is inaccurate. Nemo lost that black cloak on the far left, but later on replaced it with another one. She should still look like that, with new additions in the form of blue lipstick, the glove(s), the Beastly Bracelet, and the necklace (which goes underneath her jacket).
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top