Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

What should I do regarding a change in system?

  • Notgreat's proposed simplification of hunting, leave rest intact.

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Chapter system vastly simplifying everything.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
Okay, time to speculate about political breakdowns.

As I see it, there are roughly 3 mindsets in the Serene's at the moment, although a fourth might happen as rural territory expands. Those three are "worker", "idealist", and "pragmatist". The worker mindset arises from the conditions where the puella is almost entirely cut off from combat. The Idealist and Pragmatist mindsets however would find their places in the hunting party, although the idealists would find themselves stronger in the support staff and the pragmatists in the hunters proper.

Workers, as said, are almost entirely insulated from the usual rigors of Puella life. They do their job and then pay their entire wage for the grief seeds they need but did not hunt, thereby supporting the organization that allows them to live a mostly normal life as a magical girl and not have to risk life an limb. Their primary concerns would be for improvements in the quality of life. This faction is where the strongest pushes for things like fun with magic and increased stipends come from. Being insulated from the usual Puella concerns, they don't really have a unified opinion on expansion, territory, or other things.

Pragmatists are concerned with survival primarily, and tend to be rather cynical. Girls who spent time in the wild are more likely to be pragmatists, and for archetypal examples look at Kyoko and Homura. The organization is good and valuable because of the concrete benefits it brings to the girls both in terms of survivability and emotional support, but is not an end in itself. A pragmatist will tend to be against the risks of expansion if the organization has enough territory to sustainable support it's meguca, and strongly in favor of expansion if it does not. Rural territories will be low priority expansion targets in all cases due to their relatively low value. They will tend to be against recruitment as well, unless said recruitment comes with territorial gains to compensate for the additional drain on cubes.

Idealists believe in the mission of magical girls to fight demons and protect humanity. Sayaka types. Girls who contracted into the relative safety of a group, or got recruited early from the wild are more likely to be idealists. They will want expansion into rural territories and even into nomad territories, and this will be the case even if the territory is a (small) net drain on resources. In every case, an expansion in territory or megucapower or money represents an increase in the ability of the organization to fight demons and thereby protect people, so Idealists place high value on increasing all the metrics of organizational power.

Pragmatists are relatively casualty-risk averse, but take less of a morale hit when death does happen. Idealists are relatively casualty-risk tolerant, but take a higher morale hit when death does happen. High turnover tends to produce more pragmatists, low turnover tends to produce more idealists. Resentment of Workers depends on the casualty rate, rather than the general turnover rate since spirals are not connected to the hunter-worker dichotomy. If almost all the deaths are from spirals, then workers are as likely to get hit as hunters, and there isn't really any reason to resent the extra safety. If a substantial chunk of the deaths are from casualties then there is reason to resent the "cushy deal" workers get.

We don't really have enough rural territory to tell if it's different enough to generate another mindset, but I would speculate that rural hunters would be a midpoint between pragmatists and idealists, with the harsher realities of rural hunting leading to both greater cynicism and greater appreciation for the benefits of strong organizational backing.

This is just for the Serene's obviously, although I imagine that something like a pragmatist faction is present in all meguca groups. Idealists would likely be present in most groups that aren't criminal, although much weaker than in the SIMP. Criminal groups would probably have internal splits in the pragmatist group.

I'm probably wrong about something (I'm extrapolating a lot from the house fight and my own speculation), but I think this is probably a good first approximation of the political rifts latent in the Serene Empire.
 
@inverted_helix

I have a question on how demon strength is calculated per turn. I have it in my cheat sheet that half of the change in demon strength is applied same turn.

So if Sally in Texas has a 30 cube territory and demon strength at +10, and wants to do a 40 seed hunt to build the stockpile:

20(40-30)/30=200/30=20/3=+6.6 demon strength change and a total of +13.3 demon strength this turn hunting. And at +16.6 next turn before hunting disposition is decided.

Meanwhile Grace in Illinois also has a 30 cube territory and a demon strength +10, but wants to do a 20 seed hunt to bring down strength:

20(20-30)/30=20(-10)/30=-200/30=-6.6 demon strength change and a total of +6.7 demon strength this turn hunting. And at +3.4 next turn before hunting disposition is decided.

Is this how it's calculated or am I doing it wrong?

The only other way I've seen mentioned is taking the average of this turn's base DS and next turn's base DS, but that's equivalent because if DS on Turn A is X and on B it's Y then on turn A effective strength is:

(X+Y)/2
But Y=X+dX, where dX is the change in demon strength. So this becomes:
(X+X+dX)/2
(2X+dX)/2
(2X)/2+dX/2
X+(dX/2)
 
This is correct. Though both methods you mentioned are the same and essentially just different equivalent order of operations.

Yeah, the only thing that might make one be preferable to the other is how you deal with the .25 multiplier for negative delta when below zero. It might be easier to work with just the delta values or with the averages depending on how you handle that.
 
I put myself in their position, tried to imagine what I'd think if I heard what you guys were talking about. Logically speaking in code was the most reasonable explanation for the conversations your girls would be having. I certainly wouldn't jump to the conclusion that there was actual magic.
Well it will probably help if the cops ever sneak a peek into the building, see everyone in ridiculous frilly costumes, and conclude that we're all just a bunch of otakus banding together in the name of buying roleplaying equipment.

Actually ... we might be able to push them towards that conclusion with minimal effort.

---------------------
Also, maybe the mind reader would be more comfortable working on the civilian side in a job where being able to read the customer's minds just makes them happier. Waitressing or other customer service based jobs.

Alternatively, she could be a combat command node where she keeps track of all the girls fighting and helps shift them around tactically or warn them of dangers.
 
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I do enjoy this quest but my god the math.

Eh the math isn't that bad. *says the math major*

Well it will probably help if the cops ever sneak a peek into the building, see everyone in ridiculous frilly costumes, and conclude that we're all just a bunch of otakus banding together in the name of buying roleplaying equipment.

Actually ... we might be able to push them towards that conclusion with minimal effort

I think that actually is the plan at the moment.

Also, I would like to thank you mastigos, for coming up with rotating tactics. The sustainability equation is one of the harshest constraints in the system that we know about, and thanks to your innovation we are able to get around it to some degree, and allows us actually reliably generate a cube surplus without needing significantly more territory than meguca.
 
Minor correction on @Elder Haman 's proposal:

North territory will harvest 28.7 cubes, not the stated 27.8. Final demon strength is -0.8. Total cubes is 71.6, not 70.7.

This is only the most trivial note, unless you specifically wanted to not change the demon strength in the north area (ie: it's not efficient to raise demon strength if we aren't applying RT).

2.5 vet pairs and 0 green pairs (instead of 2 vet pairs and 1 green pair) would harvest 28.1, for a total cube harvest of 71.0 and final demon strength of -1.2 (compared to the starting -1.3). However doing so brings back the issue of needing to pull the 0.5 vet from somewhere, while also again freeing up the 1 green.
 
Minor correction on @Elder Haman 's proposal:

North territory will harvest 28.7 cubes, not the stated 27.8. Final demon strength is -0.8. Total cubes is 71.6, not 70.7.

This is only the most trivial note, unless you specifically wanted to not change the demon strength in the north area (ie: it's not efficient to raise demon strength if we aren't applying RT).

2.5 vet pairs and 0 green pairs (instead of 2 vet pairs and 1 green pair) would harvest 28.1, for a total cube harvest of 71.0 and final demon strength of -1.2 (compared to the starting -1.3). However doing so brings back the issue of needing to pull the 0.5 vet from somewhere, while also again freeing up the 1 green.

Ah... not sure how I made that error, fixed by dropping 0.5 greens from the hunt. Have to decide what to do with them... maybe community relations?
 
Also, I would like to thank you mastigos, for coming up with rotating tactics. The sustainability equation is one of the harshest constraints in the system that we know about, and thanks to your innovation we are able to get around it to some degree, and allows us actually reliably generate a cube surplus without needing significantly more territory than meguca.
I don't know if we're doing location rotation yet, where we let certain areas lie fallow, but we're starting to get to the point where that might be worthwhile.

Also, if I'm understanding the Hyper-Larmarkian evolution correctly, we might want to start saving the demons that are most easily constrained by bindings or cages for last, even though that costs more magic in terms of maintaining the cage. Or rather, generally encouraging submission behavior.
 
I do enjoy this quest but my god the math.
I'm honestly mostly here for the fluff, myself.
Eh I know this quest gets really complicated at times and kind of disenfranchises some as a result, but I am essentially targeting a niche. There are tons of ultra simplified empire quests and I set out to make one that leaned more towards complexity, I'm fairly sure that SV has a population able to support such a quest.

Also nibbling away on the update, I'm getting a bit busy and didn't think the votes settled enough to even start until yesterday. I do have some thoughts on reading the various bits of fluff though. Some of the problems you've run into here could have been avoided if Kyuubey told you more stuff up front, and for a moment I felt like that was my mistake. Then something occurred to me: since when does Kyuubey give any information that you didn't specifically ask about? He doesn't. Him letting you blunder straight into these issues is totally in character.
 
Eh I know this quest gets really complicated at times and kind of disenfranchises some as a result, but I am essentially targeting a niche. There are tons of ultra simplified empire quests and I set out to make one that leaned more towards complexity, I'm fairly sure that SV has a population able to support such a quest.

I like the math. Of course, I'm an econ major... and this quest has surely revealed to me that I am far too rusty at my math skills. So I feel it's been all for the good.

Also nibbling away on the update, I'm getting a bit busy and didn't think the votes settled enough to even start until yesterday. I do have some thoughts on reading the various bits of fluff though. Some of the problems you've run into here could have been avoided if Kyuubey told you more stuff up front, and for a moment I felt like that was my mistake. Then something occurred to me: since when does Kyuubey give any information that you didn't specifically ask about? He doesn't. Him letting you blunder straight into these issues is totally in character.

Yup - Hence why I have Mami musing about how annoying that Kyubey is for his failure to communicate his "feelings." Totally a boy. Pushy and doesn't tell you what he's thinking. (Or at least I'm pretty sure that's how Mami would interpret it.)
 

Oh please, we haven't even had to break out any calc yet.


Also, it occurs to me that we have an elite that is completely expendable. Kyoclone can go hunting with no armor or anything, and even if it results in a positive casualty chance we don't actually lose anybody. Should this inform our hunting plans in the future?
 
Oh please, we haven't even had to break out any calc yet.


Also, it occurs to me that we have an elite that is completely expendable. Kyoclone can go hunting with no armor or anything, and even if it results in a positive casualty chance we don't actually lose anybody. Should this inform our hunting plans in the future?

Only if you want to invite the wrath of the DM (Disgruntled Mechanics) on our heads.

I'd be fine with that (assuming that's the Friendly Neighbor bit, but Community Relations has a nicer ring).

Done
 
Doesn't sound like an exploit to me. Just doesn't seem like it would be a common event, since the only way it would really matter would be if we're otherwise out of armor sets, and we've set things up where that's rather difficult to do.
 
So I did some math, and assuming a steadystate (no changes to cube expenditures or territory size, so frictionless spherical cow again) of 48 expenditure and 62 income, we can afford to do fun with magic every turn. Depending on spirals there may be a deficit at first, but after we finish paying off QB for dealing with the cops, we'd start generating a surplus again unless we get unlucky with spirals.

I think the morale bonus is worth it.
 
14 Surplus
-5 Reserve for grief spirals
-1 Demon Forecasting
-1 Kyouko
-5 Research (2 projects)
---
+2 remainder

We'd need +5 remainder to start on Fun With Magic, and more than that if we want to continue to grow the reserve beyond the reserve set aside for grief spirals.

It looks like using the +8 RT style nets us +10% cubes over baseline (62.7 vs 57) while using a +8 strength target.

Ways to gain +3 over that:

  • Increase total RT-hunted territory size by 60% (+34 urban territory)
  • Increase RT target to +12 (puts the 9-10 overhunt vets at 1% casualty risk)
  • Find a way to reduce the RT multiplier from 0.66 to 0.6

The RT @+12 seems the easiest target. I'm guessing we can hit that if we can unlock either the speed or vitality stat modifiers (would speculate -1% casualty with speed, -2% with vitality, but that's pure guesswork; would also guess that base harvest rates would get +0.1 with speed and +0.2 with strength).
 
Just thinking here, but we got an extra +1% from enchanting our shields. Are we enchanting our kevlar?

Some of the problems you've run into here could have been avoided if Kyuubey told you more stuff up front, and for a moment I felt like that was my mistake. Then something occurred to me: since when does Kyuubey give any information that you didn't specifically ask about? He doesn't. Him letting you blunder straight into these issues is totally in character.
It seems to me like QB will give you information if he expects it to help him. He gives out information about the magical girls system because he wants more magical girls. He gives out information that "magical girls do the impossible" to Kyouko to convince her that she has a chance dealing with Octavia.
So if he desires our organization to succeed, then he'll give us free information to help us succeed. If he's neutral to the results of our organization, he won't give us the information. If he dislikes the organization, he'll be actively evasive to any attempts to question him.
 
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