Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

[Kinematics]

Think we're pretty much all agreed on the hunting plan, then. Only difference right now is that Haman uses 0.5 vet/0.5 green in rural instead of just 1.0 vet. Either one works, just a matter of whether we end up with half a vet or half a green for other stuff, and can be decided once the rest is settled on.

I think everyone is ok with Kyouko/Taya for anti-poaching patrol. A stealth/clairvoyant combo, both being elites, and with Taya getting a scouting bonus, should be the best chance we have for spotting interlopers.

I think everyone is on board for elite training. I think we all have Mami doing the training this month, except notgreat, who still has it as a Mami/Kyouko split to allow half a Mami for counseling.

Everyone wants research; it's just a question of whether to start the short-term or long-term versions. At the very least, 3 vets and 1 green will be used (either speed research, or personal enchanting effects, which is a one-turn project).

Beyond that, things get a bit fuzzy. The meguca units available after the above are discounted are: 1 elite, and either 5.5 vets + 1 green, or 6 vets + 0.5 green.

The exact details of dealing with the police is still a bit fuzzy, but I'm guessing every plan is going to use at least 1 vet in some way, so as an allocation that's fairly stable, but not completely certain.

Mine and notgreat's have an allocation for counseling. Right now I just have an arbitrary vet assigned, while notgreat uses 0.5 Mami.

notgreat and Aranfan have a sports day, and I added that in my local version as well. Haman modifies that to be a magical version.

Then there's various ideas on scouting and/or diplomacy, with varying amounts of allocation. I don't have a solid grasp on exactly what I want, or full reasonings on the others' choices.

Back to research, notgreat adds two more enchantment research projects. My current public version has those as well, though they're the most likely to be removed as other ideas get firmed up.

And finally, there's the operations manual project.


So, I think that gives us an idea of what aspects of the proposals we need to discuss and solidify.

 

[Elder Haman]

Haman:

In Main, you have 9 vets hunting solo. Should be 44.55 cubes, not 45.5. Same cap result, though.

And yes, you're at 33 assigned vets out of 34.

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Thanks. I'll have to figure out what to put that vet on.

Hmm... maybe put Aiko on counseling duty? She did well with the blueberry pies.

 

[Kinematics]

Of the debatable items:

Counseling is probably the first that can be dropped. It's definitely something we want, but it's not really something we need to do right this instant. Maybe when we have a few more recruits.

The operations manual project is probably something we can assign 0.5 green to. It's not something that should require full-time dedication to work on, and it certainly shouldn't require actual meguca time from other people. In that sense, it's probably best to make it the side project of the green who is otherwise spending half their time hunting in the rural area. Half the time theoretical (what people say should be done; write it down), half the time practical (seeing things in actual practice). Also note that it doesn't actually have to be completed this turn, either. If it takes two months to write up, that's not a major stress.

Sports day is at least one vet unit. Possibly more with the magical version, but a minimum of 1 vet can be set.

Assuming we set aside one unit for the police, that leaves 1 elite and 4 vets. The main choice seems to be between putting the 4 vets on research, or putting them on diplomacy/scouting. Putting the elite in with the diplomacy/scouting option is easy enough, but if the vets do research then I'm not entirely sure what to do with the elite (Kyouko).

The research options are known (the two enchantment projects), so the question is: what would you do with the diplomacy/scouting option with those people, and why?

 

[MarkAren]

As someone who used to do fencing, the buy fencing equipment idea would, in no conceivable way, never ever work.

I have a potential plan that probably needs polishing. The police wont go away until they "find" an answer, probably something suspicious. So we need to provide that for them.

Plan:
1) Locate a lowlife, terrible person (the type that Yakuza consider scum) that is currently not in jail, but is clearly breaking laws (and thus deserves to be there)
2) Make another order of Kevlar vests, much smaller this time, as if they were securing replacements/need just a few more (perhaps 3?)
3) Have it delivered to the same location as last time (apartment?)
4) Using illusion magic, have the "lowlife" (really illusion MG) pick up the package while most girls are at school.
4a) If police move to intercept, flee, dropping the package to escape (teleporter backup?)
4b) If the police don't move to intercept, the "lowlife" heads home and stashes the vests.
Optional Additional Steps:
Plant card used to make the purchases in lowlife's apartment
Plant evidence that he was blackmailing/threatening card holder to make purchases (followed by polite refusal to testifying to protect other girls. After all, who was he buying the vests for?)
Report card stolen. The card holder is a ditzy teenager/young adult. Thought she had just misplaced it until the bill came in. After consulting with a parent/adult authority figure she then reports it stolen (Not sure if too much time has passed. Also potential ethical issues in that we'd probably have the money returned to us...which means we are stealing...)

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Ok if fencing won't work drop it. That said, how on earth does validating the police's suspicions sound like a good idea? We order a bunch of kevlar vests and pay for it, yet once the police get involved we buy a few and claim the card stolen? That sounds like a fantastic way to get an actual investigation started.

 

[Aranfan]

Putting the elite in with the diplomacy/scouting option is easy enough, but if the vets do research then I'm not entirely sure what to do with the elite (Kyouko)

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Well, if we have a spare Kyoko we don't need, then can't we just not spend the cube?

The research options are known (the two enchantment projects), so the question is: what would you do with the diplomacy/scouting option with those people, and why?

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I just want to know what is going on in those places. We know nothing.

 

[Kinematics]

Well, if we have a spare Kyoko we don't need, then can't we just not spend the cube?

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We can, though I'd like to try to find a use for her first, if possible.

I just want to know what is going on in those places. We know nothing.

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Which "those places", and why those ones specifically?

 

[Aranfan]

Which "those places", and why those ones specifically?

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Well, I'm most interersted in 1 because it's city and also what's on the other side of Kyoko's old territory. And there isn't really any specific reasons, any of the territories we're ignorant of would be viable spots to do recon in.

 

[Diomedea]

Ok if fencing won't work drop it. That said, how on earth does validating the police's suspicions sound like a good idea? We order a bunch of kevlar vests and pay for it, yet once the police get involved we buy a few and claim the card stolen? That sounds like a fantastic way to get an actual investigation started.

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I think you're misunderstanding. The police are already investigating where those vests went, and probably will continue to do so for a few months until they come up with some sort of theory. If we provide a theory that does not implicate us at all, they will go away. We would be implicating that a lowlife thug has been using our apartment as a drop off point(either with or without our knowledge, depending how we want to spin the narrative) for things he wouldn't normally be allowed to purchase as a ex-con (the Kevlar). The investigators would go "Oh, so that's why a whole bunch of Kevlar was shipped to a high-school girl's apartment. Let's investigate this thug more." The thug knows nothing, but they would just think he was doing that whole 'don't talk to cops' thing. Then they are spending their time coming up with theories on what the thug was doing with it (selling on the black market?) instead of theories on what we were doing with it, investigation soon closed at best. At worse, they continue investigating, but would have no reason to continue to waste valuable police manpower on a bunch of high-school girls, and would have shifted to just what the local criminals were up to.

If we just continue to ignore them, even if they stop putting us under surveillance, any cop who knows about it will have that in the back of their mind whenever they see something suspicious involving middle-school or high-school girls. Things they'd normally dismiss may make them go "Huh, I wonder if that has anything to do with those girls involved with that weird Kevlar thing. We never did figure out what that was about." Which would put more scrutiny on us for any other mistakes or dustups or whatnot.

 

[MarkAren]

I think you're misunderstanding. The police are already investigating where those vests went, and probably will continue to do so for a few months until they come up with some sort of theory. If we provide a theory that does not implicate us at all, they will go away. We would be implicating that a lowlife thug has been using our apartment as a drop off point(either with or without our knowledge, depending how we want to spin the narrative) for things he wouldn't normally be allowed to purchase as a ex-con (the Kevlar). The investigators would go "Oh, so that's why a whole bunch of Kevlar was shipped to a high-school girl's apartment. Let's investigate this thug more." The thug knows nothing, but they would just think he was doing that whole 'don't talk to cops' thing. Then they are spending their time coming up with theories on what the thug was doing with it (selling on the black market?) instead of theories on what we were doing with it, investigation soon closed at best. At worse, they continue investigating, but would have no reason to continue to waste valuable police manpower on a bunch of high-school girls, and would have shifted to just what the local criminals were up to.

If we just continue to ignore them, even if they stop putting us under surveillance, any cop who knows about it will have that in the back of their mind whenever they see something suspicious involving middle-school or high-school girls. Things they'd normally dismiss may make them go "Huh, I wonder if that has anything to do with those girls involved with that weird Kevlar thing. We never did figure out what that was about." Which would put more scrutiny on us for any other mistakes or dustups or whatnot.

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Ok but can we come up with something a bit more plausible and less reliant on getting actual criminals involved? I'll try and come up with some ideas but *shrugs*

 

[Kinematics]

Well, I'm most interersted in 1 because it's city and also what's on the other side of Kyoko's old territory. And there isn't really any specific reasons, any of the territories we're ignorant of would be viable spots to do recon in.

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OK.

I'm personally considering a split distribution: 2 vets on research (duration), 2 vets on diplomacy (going back to my 'opening relations' idea with the rural areas), 1 Kyouko on scouting (stealth specialist), probably to area 10 (start pushing east, since area 1 and such have had pretty negative reactions to us probing them, and might be related to them (possibly) poking us back with the poachers). [Alternative is to scout area 1 because they're known as potentially hostile, so we want info on them, whereas we can open diplomatic ties with area 10 without that.]

Not sure if only one person on scouting will be allowed, though. There was some talk about changing the prices for either that or diplomacy, but I don't recall which bits were changing, and there are no current costs posted anywhere. Confirmation, @inverted_helix ?

I should also bring up: next turn we're losing ~3 vets to higher-than-normal hunting in order to initiate the RT hunting practice. I expect to draw those 3 from the 3 that I'd have put on the 1-turn research project (and thus would have been freed up regardless). If we go with the speed research, we either lose a turn of that, or we displace several of the remaining slots in order to keep it going.

 

[Aranfan]

[x] Kinematics

I support Kinematic's current plan.

 

[Kinematics]

I just finished editing it to account for the things mentioned above, so hopefully you're ok with that. Added a bit of color, too. Link for reference.

 

[Aranfan]

Hmm, I seem to have caught it before it was finished. I am dubious about the extra phone line and the business cards. Especially while under investigation, seems like a good way to gain attention.

 

[Kinematics]

Hmm, I seem to have caught it before it was finished. I am dubious about the extra phone line and the business cards. Especially while under investigation, seems like a good way to gain attention.

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This is Japan. Everyone has business cards. Though I guess getting it for the organization might be a little on the iffy side, if the police make note of it.

On the phone line, though, we just added 3 new phones last turn as well, due to the new recruits. The phone line doesn't have to be in the organization name; it's just another phone, as far as anyone else is concerned. It's mainly so that there's a specific contact point for the diplomatic efforts that isn't someone's personal line.

I can drop the business cards (though it would be nice to have something professional looking for meeting people in diplomacy efforts, and having someone run down to Kinko's to print out a batch is extremely unlikely to gain any particular notice), but I'd like to keep the phone.

 

[notgreat]

I'm pretty sure getting Kyouko's territory to +1 and then rounding to 0 isn't going to evoke the wrath of the GM. Now getting it to +2 and then rounding it to +0 might (since then it's pretty close to the limit- we'd get it to 0 net by splitting the territories 33/22, and it'd be at 0.484848 before rounding)

At +1 though it rounds to 0 at 17/38, and we're going to 27/28 or 28/27. Nowhere near close to the edge.

While I was incredibly for the elite training when we had 2 candidates, it's worth a lot less with only 1. While Elites are nice, they're not amazing except for in combat (which we hopefully won't be doing soon and if we do we already have 4 elites which is equivalent to a bit more than 12 opposing veterans) and their bonuses have been shown to be relatively weak (+10 to scouting/perception is nice, but not really worth the cubes and time it takes to do the training). It's much more efficient to work on research and expansion right now unless you're planning on getting in a fight soon. They give a 1.33x bonus compared to veterans for hunting, and they have their special modifier. That's it. We long ago determined that training greens to vets wasn't worth it, and I'm pretty sure this is a similar situation (though it's closer due to their combat ability and their specials)
Unless we're planning on using their awesome casualty modifier during hunting, but that's not going to be useable unless we can split into many smaller territories or once we get a lot more elites.


Official plan:
4 Elite Meguca: Mami (+20% persuasive), Kyouko (can act as if two Elites), Taya
34 Veteran Meguca, 9 Green Meguca, 1 Associate
[x] Upkeep: 11 Veteran, 7 Green, 1 Associate, 0.5 Mami

[x] Demon forecasting
-[x] -1 grief cube to Kyuubey

[x] Urban- Hunting Solo(9 vets, 44.55)
[x] Kyouko- Hunting Solo(2 vets+0.5 elite, 13.2)
[x] Rural- Hunting Pair(0.5 vets+0.5 green, 1.98)

remaining: 3 elite, 11.5 vet, 1.5 green

[x] Therapy/talking: 0.5 Mami, 0.5 vets (to represent the time taken to talk to all of them)

[x] Research, Personal Enchanting Effects
-3 vets+1 Green, 2 Cubes; 80% success
[x] Enchanting, Duration
-2 months of: 2 Vets, 2 Cubes, $1000
--[x] Check specifically on enhancing the kevlar we made and seeing how long we can enchant that
[x] Research, Effects of Enchanting on Technology
-2 months of: 2 vets, 2 cubes, $1000; 80% success

[x] Operations Manual project
-[x] 0.5 green (splits time between this and rural hunting)

[x] Anti-Poaching Patrol + Scouting (Area 1, see if poachers can be identified)
-[x] 2.5 elites: Kyouko(1.5), Taya
-[x] 2 elite patrol, 0.5 scout

[x] Scouting (Areas 9, 10)
-[x] 1.0 vet (0.5 each)

[x] Rural Recruitment (Areas 3,4)
-[x] 1 vet, 2 cubes (0.5 each+QB bribe)

[x] Sports Day
-[x] 1 vet

[x]Police analysis (1 vet)
edit: This was prior to the 30 cubes extortion QB is giving us. See here for revised plan.
I'm assuming Area 10 only needs 1 vet since it's smaller and I'm doing a lot less there.

net cubes: +3.53 to 47

 

[Aranfan]

Neither of them are dealbreakers for me, I'm just dubious about them.

Edit: This at Kinematics.

 

[Elder Haman]

Think we're pretty much all agreed on the hunting plan, then. Only difference right now is that Haman uses 0.5 vet/0.5 green in rural instead of just 1.0 vet. Either one works, just a matter of whether we end up with half a vet or half a green for other stuff, and can be decided once the rest is settled on.

I think everyone is ok with Kyouko/Taya for anti-poaching patrol. A stealth/clairvoyant combo, both being elites, and with Taya getting a scouting bonus, should be the best chance we have for spotting interlopers.

I think everyone is on board for elite training. I think we all have Mami doing the training this month, except notgreat, who still has it as a Mami/Kyouko split to allow half a Mami for counseling.

Everyone wants research; it's just a question of whether to start the short-term or long-term versions. At the very least, 3 vets and 1 green will be used (either speed research, or personal enchanting effects, which is a one-turn project).

Beyond that, things get a bit fuzzy. The meguca units available after the above are discounted are: 1 elite, and either 5.5 vets + 1 green, or 6 vets + 0.5 green.

The exact details of dealing with the police is still a bit fuzzy, but I'm guessing every plan is going to use at least 1 vet in some way, so as an allocation that's fairly stable, but not completely certain.

Mine and notgreat's have an allocation for counseling. Right now I just have an arbitrary vet assigned, while notgreat uses 0.5 Mami.

notgreat and Aranfan have a sports day, and I added that in my local version as well. Haman modifies that to be a magical version.

Then there's various ideas on scouting and/or diplomacy, with varying amounts of allocation. I don't have a solid grasp on exactly what I want, or full reasonings on the others' choices.

Back to research, notgreat adds two more enchantment research projects. My current public version has those as well, though they're the most likely to be removed as other ideas get firmed up.

And finally, there's the operations manual project.


So, I think that gives us an idea of what aspects of the proposals we need to discuss and solidify.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for that summary.

On the police, perhaps we should drop everything except investigating what they want using our telepath. Then we can decide next turn if we should go with something like the frame up plan.

Research: I think we should be able to keep 3 vets and 1 green on research for the foreseeable future. It's the other vets being spent on research that we can't afford after this turn, so I think we should avoid putting them on the 2 month duration research.

I prefer getting started on the stats ones right away, as they improve by 5% each turn, but I could go for the personal one right away if people prefer that.

On scouting, I was thinking that having Kyouko scout area 1 made the most sense. Area 10 borders Kyouko's old territory so they are probably on the watch for her. Area 1 won't be expecting her as much. I think adding another clairvoyant and a teleporter make the most sense. I also spent 0.5 of our telepath there as well to try and get some motivations understood.

Then we have the sports day.

I like having the magical version. I don't think we can be scared of the police following us all the time. I mean... what are we supposed to do? Stop the elite training for Kaoru? Not hunt? We're using magic for all those things.

We just need to be careful around the house and the apartments that they are monitoring. Going into the mountains and using magic for a sports day should be fine.

My plan uses 1.5 vets and 0.5 greens. which leaves 1 more vet, who I'm now thinking should be sent to scout area 10.

If we do the mundane sports day instead I'd have 0.5 vets and 0.5 greens available, so I'd probably put them on creating the manual.

 

[Elder Haman]

@notgreat Of course, Kaoru is the one that is most likely to get a hunting type modifier.

@inverted_helix Do we have any details yet on the costs for the various diplomacy actions?

 

[Aranfan]

Then we have the sports day.

I like having the magical version. I don't think we can be scared of the police following us all the time. I mean... what are we supposed to do? Stop the elite training for Kaoru? Not hunt? We're using magic for all those things.

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Yeah, but the magical sports day involves everybody disappearing off into the woods for a day when we're under police investigation. That's different than the magical usage for hunting or training Kaoru, and a lot more suspicious.

 

[Aranfan]

That's it. We long ago determined that training greens to vets wasn't worth it, and I'm pretty sure this is a similar situation (though it's closer due to their combat ability and their specials)

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Wasn't part of that calculation that greens will become vets eventually anyway, even if we don't specifically use them in combat just from gradual accumulation of experience? So while it isn't worth it to go through trouble to train up greens, at least some of that is because they naturally graduate. Vets will never become elites without training, so the analogy falls apart.

 

[Kinematics]

Eh, worst case on the business cards is that we just print them out ourselves on some heavy paper stock. Looks a bit cheaper, but just as effective for the desired purpose. I'm fine with dropping that as an actual purchase item.

Going into the mountains and using magic for a sports day should be fine.

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Actually, that's an idea. Instead of a sports day, a day trip of mountain climbing, a la Encouragement of Climb.

Not a full overnight trip, so don't need tents and sleeping bags and stuff, but just a day trip to a nearby touristy mountain trail. The nature of the location makes some magical use more viable, and any cops keeping watch will have to decide if they feel like climbing a mountain just to keep up with a bunch of kids.

We're also not just 'disappearing'. A bunch of kids gathering up for a field trip would be quite noticeable, and again reinforce the 'ordinary'-ness of them.

[x] Anti-Poaching Patrol + Scouting (Area 1, see if poachers can be identified)
-[x] 2.5 elites: Kyouko(1.5), Taya

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This is a nice idea. Combine the general patrol with scouting, taking double advantage of Taya's bonus (though also splitting the time dedicated for each, so.. eh). Would probably keep it as just 1 Kyouko/1 Taya until I looked at the effects of other stuff, though.

 

[notgreat]

Vets will never become elites without training, so the analogy falls apart.

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That's true, but I'm still pretty sure it's not worth it. Doing 2 more month of training only has a 51% chance of getting an elite, and with only 1 candidate the benefits are a lot less. If we only had to pay half an elite I'd be happy with it, but I just don't think it's worthwhile at this point. Unless it turns out that Kaoru's special is actually a lot better than Taya's, it's not worth spending 2-4 megucamonths and 1-2 cubes to get it when we could spend 2-4 megucamonths and recruit another ~4 meguca through diplomacy.

On the police, perhaps we should drop everything except investigating what they want

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It's pretty obvious, just look at the update when we gained their attention.
1) We bought $20,000 of bullet-proof clothing. That's like "arming a gang" level of expenditure. Which we basically are doing when you look at it that way.
2) Shortly afterwards, our house had some mysterious damage and we had to pay $10,000 to repair it. That's pretty significant as well, normal people shouldn't be able to cause that sort of visible damage to their houses.

They don't have anything on us beyond those two very suspicious things. They just want answers, because those two things indicate that we're involved in something big.

and any cops keeping watch will have to decide if they feel like climbing a mountain just to keep up with a bunch of kids.

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If we're actually going into the mountains in a big group, they'll have some way to watch us. Probably a drone, but there are plenty of other ways they could do it. Plus, it's the near-future, I'm sure that the police have equipment for these sorts of things.

I prefer getting started on the stats ones right away, as they improve by 5% each turn, but I could go for the personal one right away if people prefer that.

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The big problem is that they need ~5 turns of investment before they have a reasonable chance of success. It's not at 90% chance success until turn 9. It's a big investment on something that doesn't seem that much more useful than the smaller investment choices. We might as well grab the low-hanging fruit before working on the harder ones.

 

[Aranfan]

Doing 2 more month of training only has a 51% chance of getting an elite

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Not technically true given the omakes we're putting towards it. As to Kaoru's bonus, I have a sneaking suspicion that her bonus is going to be applicable to morale, given how we've used her before, so I really want it.

 

[Kinematics]

Unless it turns out that Kaoru's special is actually a lot better than Taya's, it's not worth spending 2-4 megucamonths and 1-2 cubes to get it when we could spend 2-4 megucamonths and recruit another ~4 meguca through diplomacy.

Click to shrink...

There's also other potential subtle effects that we may not know about. For example, does seeing members of the organization reaching elite status act as a morale boost (both "They're so cool!" and "I could be an elite someday, too!")? Do elites get better chances at non-combat pvp stuff such as seeing through stealth, or hiding when scouting? Etc.

The reasons are more nebulous, but I'm still in favor of the training.

As to Kaoru's bonus, I have a sneaking suspicion that her bonus is going to be applicable to morale, given how we've used her before, so I really want it.

Click to shrink...

And yes, this. Very much.

 

[Kinematics]

On notgreat's diplomacy options: I'd forgotten about area 9 there. Does anyone remember what the last interaction with them was like? If it's reasonable, opening lines with them would be something I'd agree with.

I still want to open lines with 3/4/5, though. As helix mentioned, the girls in the rural areas are the worst off, and really are the ones Mami wants to help the most. I dislike ignoring them simply for the sake of efficiency.

Might be able to do the action with just 1 vet, though, instead of the 2 I have it marked down for. Need price schedules on the diplomacy stuff.