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Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

What should I do regarding a change in system?

  • Notgreat's proposed simplification of hunting, leave rest intact.

    Votes: 5 55.6%

  • Chapter system vastly simplifying everything.

    Votes: 4 44.4%
  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
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inverted_helix said:
Also just realized at some point Iwata became Itawa. I don't know how it happened or whether I did it or not.
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Search tool to the rescue! The first mention of Itawa in this thread is here. And we've swapped back and forth repeatedly on which one was being used ever since.

Also @Elder Haman we definitely want to scout rather than upgrade a green to a vet. Especially if we're getting another apartment, those things just burn holes in our pocketbook unless we're using their capacity. We've got money to spare, but not that much money.
 
notgreat said:
Search tool to the rescue! The first mention of Itawa in this thread is here. And we've swapped back and forth repeatedly on which one was being used ever since.

Also @Elder Haman we definitely want to scout rather than upgrade a green to a vet. Especially if we're getting another apartment, those things just burn holes in our pocketbook unless we're using their capacity. We've got money to spare, but not that much money.
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Ahh... so it was my fault... Oh well, corrected it in my post (I think I got all the references).

Updated to Pair Hunting in the rural area.

I'll agree that we ought to scout, that was my inclination. What should we do with the extra green? Hunt for a job?

I guess there is one other option, we could go try to diplomatically recruit that girl in area 5. She was a green, and we scouted her... 3 months ago? Might have died in the meantime. Area only supported 1 girl if I remember correctly, so not much payoff other then an extra green. Although an extra green might be useful in Mitakihara if Kyouko agrees to let us harvest all 8 cubes in her territory. We could then assign 4 greens to harvest her area and not waste any vets.

The diplomacy move would cost us a vet and the green, but we could still scout 4 more areas. We had +30% to the diplomacy option too.
 
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Elder Haman said:
Ahh... so it was my fault... Oh well, corrected it in my post (I think I got all the references).
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Everyone's been using it for a while now. You may have started it, but everyone else agreed that it was a better name :p
I guess there is one other option, we could go try to diplomatically recruit that girl in area 5. She was a green, and we scouted her... 3 months ago? Might have died in the meantime. Area only supported 1 girl if I remember correctly, so not much payoff other then an extra green. Although an extra green might be useful in Mitakihara if Kyouko agrees to let us harvest all 8 cubes in her territory. We could then assign 4 greens to harvest her area and not waste any vets.

The diplomacy move would cost us a vet and the green, but we could still scout 4 more areas.
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I think this doing some sort of diplomacy is a good idea. There's a good chance that she's either dead or a veteran by now. It might be better to just go for a blind diplomacy action somewhere else, the bonus has probably decayed to nothing by now.

On a side note, I just realized we have never failed a diplomacy action with a territory. I'm sorry, kittens.
 
notgreat said:
Everyone's been using it for a while now. You may have started it, but everyone else agreed that it was a better name :p

I think this doing some sort of diplomacy is a good idea. There's a good chance that she's either dead or a veteran by now. It might be better to just go for a blind diplomacy action somewhere else, the bonus has probably decayed to nothing by now.

On a side note, I just realized we have never failed a diplomacy action with a territory. I'm sorry, kittens.
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Hmm... somewhere between 56% and 42 % chance she is still alive. If she's a vet now that's even better for us. We can always use another vet.

@inverted_helix How badly has our diplomacy bonus faded? It was at 30% on turn 17.

Also, I added the meeting flavor text.
 
@Elder Haman Assuming you add a diplomacy action and at least 2 scouting actions, I'm going for your plan. With the reveal that Kyouko's diplomacy is close to succeeding, the overhunt plan isn't worth the price.

[X] Elder Haman

edit: With updated map, scouting new 11+ territories probably more useful than futilely doing a diplomacy action. Extra green can be assigned to a job search unless a new training/research option opens that can accept a green.
 
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Okay, updated with diplomacy and scouting actions.

I actually decided to scout both area 11 and area 12 down near Iwata. I could be presuaded to drop one of them and instead go after area 1 and area 2 again, but... well we haven't had much luck there and we want to expand Iwata quickly so...

Diplomacy is targeted at Area 5 since that's the only one we have a bonus on. If inverted_helix comes back and says our bonus is all gone, then I'll switch to a blind attempt on area 1.

EDIT: Typos on the upkeep:

"1.5+.5 green vet"

I believe you want:

1.5 vet +0.5 green
 
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Elder Haman said:
Diplomacy is targeted at Area 5 since that's the only one we have a bonus on. If inverted_helix comes back and says our bonus is all gone, then I'll switch to a blind attempt on area 1.
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Decay of diplomacy bonus is randomized, since it's largely supposed to represent how much their conditions would be improved by joining your group.
 
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inverted_helix said:
Decay of diplomacy bonus is randomized, since it's largely supposed to represent how much their conditions would be improved by joining your group.
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Then shouldn't you get that bonus even if we don't do the scouting beforehand? Obviously we wouldn't know how much of a bonus it would give but the bonus should still be there, right?

Also it used to say that it was 10% per turn. Just thought you might want to know since that's probably a good rough estimate.
 
notgreat said:
Then shouldn't you get that bonus even if we don't do the scouting beforehand? Obviously we wouldn't know how much of a bonus it would give but the bonus should still be there, right?

Also it used to say that it was 10% per turn. Just thought you might want to know since that's probably a good rough estimate.
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I'm admittedly wishy washy on it. 10% per turn might be better, didn't realize I'd said it before. I was debating between the two.

I want it to be useful to scout.

In a demonstration of said wishy washiness I have changed my mind back and it will just be 10% per turn. Simulation and simplicity have warred, and just having it be a roll based bonus to diplomacy for scouting that decays over time will have to do.
 
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notgreat said:
Can we research a way to make meguca more resistant to demon attacks (applying the magical strengthening to their skin or to some light armor or something)?
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So I've been looking at body armor since you wanted an option to buy body armor, ugh. There's soooo much misinformation and false advertising of capabilities around that it's ridiculous. I'm pretty much giving up on sorting my way through to the actual facts of the matter after an hour spent trying to drill through layers of false information.

I'd probably just play it simple and say around $250 for simple leather jacket and pants of questionable durability; around $1000 for a full set of kevlar clothes (which notably doesn't mean bulletproof). A bulletproof vest alone costs around $600, not including addition inserts or coverage of anything else.

What I find myself wondering though is whether the transformed clothes demonstrate any increased durability in canon? I think a lot from the Incubators' perspective and I just can't quite figure out what the point of the transformation is. What is it doing? It seems like most powers they need to be transformed to use. But what's the point of the outfit changing? I mean in the case of a lot of magical girl shows their transformation outfits have supernatural durability (most notable I think in Nanoha where it's very explicit). If that's the case in PMMM then I shouldn't give you a bonus just for basic armor, but if it's not what's the point of the outfits?

I put entirely too much thought into this sometimes.

I added the basic options for the month, and a research option to improving your durability directly. The success rate looks absolutely awful, but the cumulative success rate breaches 50% after 5 months, so I'm not too concerned. This is much more along the lines of what you can expect from future research projects. (Since I have to keep your ballooning budget in mind.) This is the first research project where you're really looking at pushing the envelope rather than exploring your obvious abilities, so it's much harder and more expensive (though as your budget blooms this will gradually be less expensive). I also like this way of doing the success rate since research duration in general is not that predictable like you commonly see it in games, this generates a nice degree of randomness that allows for amazing early breakthroughs, or long slogs to the finish.
 
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There's a simple reason to transform actually.

Damage to their transformed clothing morphs away easily.
Damage to their real clothing is a masquerade hazard because you'd be seeing girls with clothes that look like a psycho went through them.

The cloth is probably as tough as enchanted cloth, but it's still cloth. Might be as tough as leather at most, most megucas fight by using extreme mobility instead of tanking. And as can be seen from Sayaka, they don't really stop many wounds.
 
Just thinking- if we get some questionable durability armor and then spend some magic enhancing it, we could probably get a noticeable bonus at a small cube/monetary cost. No point in doing it now I think since we should be keeping ourselves at 0% casualties for the foreseeable future, but still something to consider. (1% strength = ~2 cubes, so spending many cubes to reduce casualties doesn't make sense unless we're planning on switching to solo hunting which won't be for a while considering how many of our bonuses are pack/pair only.) Though if we could cut out some of the upkeeps we're running on training to reduce casualties that'd be nice.

Code: 
turn %complete  cost(avg)
 1   0.05000000 1.00000000
 2   0.14500000 1.95000000
 3   0.27325000 2.80500000
 4   0.41860000 3.53175000
 5   0.56395000 4.11315000
 6   0.69476500 4.54920000
 7   0.80159725 4.85443500
 8   0.88095835 5.05283775
 9   0.93452709 5.17187940
10   0.96726355 5.23735231
11   0.98526860 5.27008876
12   0.99410744 5.28482017
13   0.99793760 5.29071273
14   0.99938128 5.29277512
15   0.99984532 5.29339384
16   0.99996906 5.29354852
17   0.99999536 5.29357946
18   0.99999954 5.29358410
19   0.99999998 5.29358456
20   1.00000000 5.29358459
It'll cost us on average 15.9 direct cubes to do the research, and 37.1 total cubes once you add in the 4 cubes it costs to keep the researchers alive.
 
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veekie said:
There's a simple reason to transform actually.

Damage to their transformed clothing morphs away easily.
Damage to their real clothing is a masquerade hazard because you'd be seeing girls with clothes that look like a psycho went through them.

The cloth is probably as tough as enchanted cloth, but it's still cloth. Might be as tough as leather at most, most megucas fight by using extreme mobility instead of tanking. And as can be seen from Sayaka, they don't really stop many wounds.
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Funny thing, while I do recall the girls taking damage, I don't recall their costumes ever showing damage.
 
notgreat said:
Just thinking- if we get some questionable durability armor and then spend some magic enhancing it, we could probably get a noticeable bonus at a small cube/monetary cost. No point in doing it now I think since we should be keeping ourselves at 0% casualties for the foreseeable future, but still something to consider. (1% strength = ~2 cubes, so spending many cubes to reduce casualties doesn't make sense unless we're planning on switching to solo hunting which won't be for a while considering how many of our bonuses are pack/pair only.) Though if we could cut out some of the upkeeps we're running on training to reduce casualties that'd be nice.

Code: 
turn %complete  cost(avg)
1   0.05000000 1.00000000
2   0.14500000 1.95000000
3   0.27325000 2.80500000
4   0.41860000 3.53175000
5   0.56395000 4.11315000
6   0.69476500 4.54920000
7   0.80159725 4.85443500
8   0.88095835 5.05283775
9   0.93452709 5.17187940
10   0.96726355 5.23735231
11   0.98526860 5.27008876
12   0.99410744 5.28482017
13   0.99793760 5.29071273
14   0.99938128 5.29277512
15   0.99984532 5.29339384
16   0.99996906 5.29354852
17   0.99999536 5.29357946
18   0.99999954 5.29358410
19   0.99999998 5.29358456
20   1.00000000 5.29358459
It'll cost us on average 15.9 direct cubes to do the research, and 37.1 total cubes once you add in the 4 cubes it costs to keep the researchers alive.
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I don't think counting the cubes spent on the researchers is really fair since you always have to pay upkeep.

Anyways it's intentional that research be expensive relative to your current small size. Though maybe I could break it down a bit more into smaller tiers to reduce the cost somewhat for the first tier. Picking and choosing your research topics wisely is important.

You've also forgotten that it's possible to squeeze continuous extra out of a territory with more casualty reduction by cyclic over-hunting. Or just by accepting a higher demon strength (remember that for a given degree of over-hunting demon strength will increase up to a cap based on the amount of over-hunt, it's meant to encourage a bit of additional casualty reduction so you can support a bit more than your territory normally would, though the cap is sufficiently high to make it very difficult to get too much more).
 
I've been thinking, also I started watching PMMM again.

@inverted_helix

Remember when you were talking about girls customizing their shields?, Actually I think it's pretty redundant. During the Gertrud labyrinth Mami enchants a bat that Sayaka had brought with her, dramatically changing it's appearance.

I suspect magical girl outfits are similar, although the thing being enchanted is either the girl herself, or her clothing.
 
Asael said:
I suspect magical girl outfits are similar, although the thing being enchanted is either the girl herself, or her clothing.
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I don't really buy this because of the way the transformation sequences look, and the difference in beginning outfits and the endpoint transformed look. I mean I suppose it's possible, but it just doesn't seem all that likely to me. Veekie's idea seems more likely.

Asael said:
Remember when you were talking about girls customizing their shields?, Actually I think it's pretty redundant. During the Gertrud labyrinth Mami enchants a bat that Sayaka had brought with her, dramatically changing it's appearance.
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Yeah I'm aware, I've somewhat nerfed what Mami had available to begin with from canon to make it work better with plans on how you could develop it. For instance currently you could not replicate that feat from canon, most obviously because the enchantment would have failed when Mami gave it to Sayaka, though I did have an idea for research in that direction. You'd actually need 3 research projects from your current point to replicate Mami's feat in canon with enchanting.

Admittedly I did it as a bit of a reduction in order to promote thinking about it, and kind of expected it to be brought up when enchanting was originally described. People aren't really as creative with research as I anticipated, though I suppose the high costs are to blame for that, but I'm placing high costs because I feel it is better from a simulation standpoint.

I suppose a decent way to do that would be to reduce costs a bit for solid plans or omakes on how to do the research.
 
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Anyone else going to vote besides me and notgreat? I know we agreed on a plan, but we still need to convince the rest of you to vote for it!

On the research front I think we should all brainstorm some on what kind of research we would like to do. I think we need to start building out a tree and then deciding what direction we want to research:

Extending what we already have:

1: Enchantment types:
- What properties get boosted for specific materials? (Current question)
- Can we direct the enchantment to boost a property of our choice?
- How does personalization effect enchantment? Does this improve the ability of girls to enchant their personal equipment?
- Interaction with technology, such phones and computers?
- Does the wish magic of the girl effect the enchantment in any way?
- Can we enchant an item to duplicate some wish magic? Healing teas? Interpreter glasses? Stealth cloaks? Teleporter pads?
- Enchant an item with custom magic? (Like making a person able to see magic/Kuybeys?)​

2: Enchantment Duration
- Enchantments last after the Magical Girl lets go of it (Current area of research)
- Activated Enchantments that sit inactive, but can be activated when any magical girl grabs a hold of it (we should be able to research this in parallel with the current one).
- Activated Enchantments that sit inactive, but have a certain number of "charges"?
- Activated Enchantments that can run directly off grief cubes?
- Permanent Enchantments that can be activated, "infinite charges"
- Permanent Constant Enchantments​

3: Modifying the body
- Strengthening a mundane body (already done with Ayase)
- Strengthening a magical girl's durability even further (Current option)
- Empowering a "boost" in strength or speed (we should be able to research this in parallel with the current one)
- Age adjustments, being able to mature faster, or slower, or stop aging at a certain point? (Might be worth asking Kuybey some questions)
- Improved injury management? Preventing blood loss? Directed strengthening to maintain mobility, strength, or speed despite injuries? Improved self healing? Delaying self healing until a healer can heal it more efficiently?
- Soul Gem protection? Moving the Soul Gem location? Concealing it (for PK scenarios)?
- Permanently strengthening a mundane?​

4: Body Armor/Equipment (None currently up, but we've been discussing it)
- Purchasing Shields and enchanting them (Done, but could we do something further with this?)
- Assimilating a mundane item (like a shield) and making it part of our summoned costume? Maybe related to the Personalization research above?
- Soul Gem protection? Special shields?
- Purchasing Body Armor and incorporating it into our defenses
- Can we just directly modify our costumes? Maybe make them give us more defense? They are conjured after all.
- Can we modify our weapons? (Yes, since Mami did- maybe a bonus if Mami is involved in the research?) To adjust based on what kind of hunting role we have? Try and get each girl to have an AoE, and a long range weapon choice, as well as a close combat weapon?
- Can we incorporate mundane weapons into our fighting? Any benefits? Swords, guns?​

Other things I think we want to add to the list of research topics:

Developing new abilities:
- Flight?
- New magic attacks?
- Teleport Touch (teleport an object without going along with it?)
- Signalling? Magic signal that only other magical girls can see?
- Long range telepathy​

Making magic that is currently specialized to wish magic more widely available?
- Improved telepathy?
- Healing?
- Barriers?
- Teleportation?
- Clairvoyance?
- Stealth?​

On the more mundane front I think we want some new options. Some of these are more thought out then others, some still need more brainstorming to do:

College Fund (Girls are going to start reaching that age soon, and not all of them have family to support them)

Life Plans Survey - Along those lines, what do our girls want to do? Maybe some just want to hunt demons as their main job, maybe some would like to become a doctor (like our healers for example). A lot probably have no real set plans and we can direct them as needed for the team.

What would it cost to setup a church and/or Shrine of our own to provide more cover for some of our activities as we get older? Not just for the healing service, but to explain where we are spending a bunch of our time, and why we are all meeting together. Sure, most of this can be covered by a corporation that the girls "work" for, but there are other things that we might want besides work related things. Like a "summer camp" we could send green girls too for an intensive training regime or something. Churches often provide that center for community organizations.

Are there any ways to exploit our teleporters more? There has to be some business opportunities built around being able to get something from Osaka/Kyoto to Tokyo in just a couple minutes.

Mami and Kaoru are probably old enough to get a license soon? Should we purchase a car/van to provide more mobility for small groups of people? Like our strike squad going to Iwata. What if we need to do something like that again? What about hauling around grief cubes? We might need to be able to safely transport them quite a distance.

Just some thoughts that I figure we can discuss now while waiting for the next turn.
 
inverted_helix said:
I don't really buy this because of the way the transformation sequences look, and the difference in beginning outfits and the endpoint transformed look. I mean I suppose it's possible, but it just doesn't seem all that likely to me. Veekie's idea seems more likely.

Yeah I'm aware, I've somewhat nerfed what Mami had available to begin with from canon to make it work better with plans on how you could develop it. For instance currently you could not replicate that feat from canon, most obviously because the enchantment would have failed when Mami gave it to Sayaka, though I did have an idea for research in that direction. You'd actually need 3 research projects from your current point to replicate Mami's feat in canon with enchanting.

Admittedly I did it as a bit of a reduction in order to promote thinking about it, and kind of expected it to be brought up when enchanting was originally described. People aren't really as creative with research as I anticipated, though I suppose the high costs are to blame for that, but I'm placing high costs because I feel it is better from a simulation standpoint.

I suppose a decent way to do that would be to reduce costs a bit for solid plans or omakes on how to do the research.
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The Mami bat isn't the only instance of enchanted mundane objects, Kyouko enchants a pair of binoculars when she is introduced. (used to spy on Sayaka.)The binoculars are also altered in a similar way to the bat, which is to say gaudily.

There is also a scene later on where she pulls out her spear without transforming.(she threaten Kyuubei with it.)

Part of me is wondering if the magical girl transformation is cultural?, it doesn't seem to be necessary for them to use magic.
 
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@Elder Haman Any reason to buy the apartments this turn rather than next turn? We really should try scouting area 1 or 2 again, both are places with a good amount of potential and the scouting penalties have probably decayed to nothing.

Since Area 5's diplomacy bonus has decayed entirely, it may be worthwhile to do a blind diplomacy attempt somewhere else instead. Area 5 has only 1 capacity, whereas other rural locations might have more.

@inverted_helix Can we double up on the Kyouko diplomacy action? Spending a full Mami on it to get 2 attempts?
 
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