I was assuming we'd keep all the clairvoyants (2) and teleporters (4) supporting Serena. That's what my current plan assumes.
I guess we could actually drop that down by a teleporter. Gain another .05 vet, probably put them on the Coalition deal.
Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)
- Thread starter inverted_helix
- Start date
I guess we could actually drop that down by a teleporter. Gain another .05 vet, probably put them on the Coalition deal.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
I favor this and assumed it was Kinematics' approach.
No, Kinematics approach is to put Serena and the support team on half time. Of course, he expects that Serena won't actually need the support team and has them working on some research in the background (at an effectiveness penalty), but they are still there ready to help her if she needs it.
@Kinematics Is that about right?
So, my Plan B doesn't have much additional time to work with, if I keep 3 tries at the research. At the same time, I don't want to give up the support team for Serena, even if she's unlikely to need it. There are a couple danger scenarios for her, still, and having normal teams around to intercept and talk with any Tokyo girls we come across is also important.
So I'm pondering dropping General Training for the month, and finish it up next month instead. (Or even just dropping it to half time.) That would give space to pick up negotiation with the Coalition. Alternative: dropping the Pet Whisperer.
Oh, wait. We got a new vet. She hasn't been trained, though. I'm not sure if she joined up with expectations of being part of the fighting, but since it was described as that she "has agreed to go join up with your group", I'm assuming she's part of the main city stuff. So we can stick her on delivery or something to free up one of our regulars, and that gives me 1.0 to put on Coalition negotations.
I'll add that, as it might give an extra boost to the fusion research. I did remove the bit about sharing our fusion research progress with them, as that wouldn't be applicable til the end of the month (for next month actions) anyway, since it specified as only if our research failed.
So I'm pondering dropping General Training for the month, and finish it up next month instead. (Or even just dropping it to half time.) That would give space to pick up negotiation with the Coalition. Alternative: dropping the Pet Whisperer.
Oh, wait. We got a new vet. She hasn't been trained, though. I'm not sure if she joined up with expectations of being part of the fighting, but since it was described as that she "has agreed to go join up with your group", I'm assuming she's part of the main city stuff. So we can stick her on delivery or something to free up one of our regulars, and that gives me 1.0 to put on Coalition negotations.
I'll add that, as it might give an extra boost to the fusion research. I did remove the bit about sharing our fusion research progress with them, as that wouldn't be applicable til the end of the month (for next month actions) anyway, since it specified as only if our research failed.
Your statement is correct, but I don't think quite answers Aranfan's comment about your comment. I would be having Serena go around hunting down non-teleporters, and avoiding the eyeball; the only difference is that it wouldn't be done just on her own.
Oh, missed that @inverted_helix approved a change in the x3 fusion research compared to the initial remarks. @Elder Haman had +50% and +100% for x2 and x3, whereas the original (uncertain) estimates given were x1.5 for x2, and x1.5x1.5 (x2.25) for x3.
So I'll adjust to the +100% value for the x3 research. That frees up 0.5 vets (or 0.5 Mami).
So I'll adjust to the +100% value for the x3 research. That frees up 0.5 vets (or 0.5 Mami).
Pondering: Keep 0.5 Mami on the research, or put her on the talks with the Coalition? Don't know if she'd give any boost to the research, but do know that she'd help with the Coalition talks (but don't know how much anything we get from the Coalition would be worth).
Going to go ahead and put her on the diplomacy action, over and above the 1.0 baseline needed. It's been about a year since we encountered their tandem magic, so they could very well have something more substantial developed. Probe into that?
Also, maybe: Drop Pet Whisperer to 0.5, and use the other 0.5 to open relations with Heaven's Chosen? Would make negotiating with them next turn possible, if all our teleportation research this turn fails. Not sure that's our best choice, but we have such limited info on other nearby groups, it's hard to say.
Going to go ahead and put her on the diplomacy action, over and above the 1.0 baseline needed. It's been about a year since we encountered their tandem magic, so they could very well have something more substantial developed. Probe into that?
Also, maybe: Drop Pet Whisperer to 0.5, and use the other 0.5 to open relations with Heaven's Chosen? Would make negotiating with them next turn possible, if all our teleportation research this turn fails. Not sure that's our best choice, but we have such limited info on other nearby groups, it's hard to say.
- Location
- South Africa
Try enchanting objects to feel like depressed people?
Try enchanting them to deploy automatic barriers?
Try generating a magical adhesive?
We know too little to know what's likely to work.
OK, I'll add contact with Heaven's Chosen.
Huh? I thought that Haman's actually had x2.25 the labor. Didn't he have 6.5 assigned for it?
He just wrote it really weird, like 1.5x x2.
Hmm he edited it later.
No. I edited other things later (adding more to the Coalition deal)
Kinematics wrote it as 1.5x x2 which I didn't understand (I thought maybe he forgot to delete the old 1.5x when copy and pasting), which is why I asked you if 6 vets was sufficient.
I guess I can move the extra 0.5 vet over to the Fusion Research instead.
EDIT: Done, upped the Fusion Research x3 to 6.5 megucas.
Last edited:
The post you replied to hasn't been edited. It was written as:
Tandem Casting, Fusion x3: Intensified research.
Cost: 2x base cost (5.5 vets/0.5 elites, 6 cubes); Chance of Success: 5% +5% per month researched
Month 3
Mine originally had something like "1.5x1.5x (2.25x)", which is a little more confusing.
So we should move it back to 6.5 vets, then?
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Seems so.
Would you be opposed to having Serena Hunt Tokyo so we can find her modifiers? Since @inverted_helix doesn't seem to want to tell us what they are.
I would.
1: This would add extensive exposure time to the Tokyo girls
2: There really isn't any major gains to be made from it as Serena can not hunt fast enough to make a difference in Tokyo DS
3: We don't really need to know Serena's hunting modifier, since we will never have her do normal hunting.
Yeah, sorry for confusion, I was confused apparently.
Reason I don't want to give you hunting modifiers is because it's not reasonable for her to hunt normally. It would cause too much exposure to the civilian population, and would be against your nominal agreement.
OK, removed the Pet Whisperer action this turn entirely, and kept the extra 0.5s on the Coalition and opening relations with Heaven's Chosen.
With Mami as part of the Coalition negotation, I can drop the extra 0.5 vet (so left with 0.5 Mami/0.5 vet) and put that on tracking teleportation research, if people think that would be more useful than a small bonus to those negotiations.
With Mami as part of the Coalition negotation, I can drop the extra 0.5 vet (so left with 0.5 Mami/0.5 vet) and put that on tracking teleportation research, if people think that would be more useful than a small bonus to those negotiations.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Filled out the rest of Operation Anunnaki.
OK, so as noted in the omake, there's still a couple problems to solve.
1) What sort of instructions do we want to give the Nagoya teams during this month?
Since the teleporting demons show no sign of fleeing (they immediately return to an area after Serena leaves), and the non-teleporting demons are trivial for Serena to take out, Nagoya has a month of boredom ahead of them if we go with our current plan. We asked for their support in this endeavor, so what do we want them to help with?
2) How do we want to deal with the Tokyo locals, and particular any of them that are trying to escape?
As noted in the issues between mine and Haman's plans, there's a real risk of a push towards exodus for a large number of Tokyo girls. (Not all of them; a lot are still motivated to protect their home city.) We need them to stay there and continue to hunt the normal demons as much as possible, and we don't want them flooding surrounding territories that can't support them, possibly causing new outbreaks of class 3's.
What can we do?
#1
A) We don't actually want to trigger a flee response from the remaining demons, until we have some way to deal with the teleporters. Otherwise we cause problems that none of the surrounding areas are equipped to deal with (that we know of).
B) We know that there are 18 remaining non-teleporters in Tokyo. Not all of them will be in reach (eg: they'll be on the Chiba side), so maybe we can nail a dozen of them along the west and north border areas. Even if Serena only hits one per raid, two raids per day, that's 6 days to finish them off. We've used 1 or 2 of our halftime days so far, which leaves maybe 7 more active days with no particular actions we can take.
C) Can we have Nagoya secure an area for a few days at a time? That is, have their three teams cover a section of Tokyo where they keep chasing off any teleporters that try to enter that area? Then encourage the locals to mass-farm demons in that area for a few days. Then move on to another region.
Risk: Heavy concentration of magical girls may end up leading to a swarm effect that Nagoya can't keep up with. And any retreats may drag out stragglers, causing a disruption of the demons' movement patterns.
D) Can we have Nagoya make strikes at border teleporter demons, and retreat? The point being, there are attacks that don't involve Serena's aura, luring the demons into a false sense that Serena is only a sporadic threat, rather than a continuous one. A couple of false attacks on our off days, between Serena's attacks, to train the demons "down" from Serena's threat. By keeping the attacks short, they should avoid drawing in additional demons, and teleporting out should keep the demons from following them and leaving the border area.
This feels like the most reasonable use of Nagoya at the moment. Counterpoint to Serena's attacks to keep the demons from getting too jittery.
#2
A) Notification of Tokyo of our ongoing results may make some of them think it's time to take advantage of the weakness in the border. We need to convince them that we're making it safer for them in the middle city areas, so they can stay there and hunt more easily. Likewise, the most dangerous of the border demons are still there for the time being.
B) Aside form those we have direct contact with, start building up contacts with the girls we meet during our engagements, to get them to spread the word as well. We're making it safer in the middle areas, so try to stay there.
C) Speaking of contacts: Can we extend the duration of our burner phone activation periods? We'll need at least one more month.
1) What sort of instructions do we want to give the Nagoya teams during this month?
Since the teleporting demons show no sign of fleeing (they immediately return to an area after Serena leaves), and the non-teleporting demons are trivial for Serena to take out, Nagoya has a month of boredom ahead of them if we go with our current plan. We asked for their support in this endeavor, so what do we want them to help with?
2) How do we want to deal with the Tokyo locals, and particular any of them that are trying to escape?
As noted in the issues between mine and Haman's plans, there's a real risk of a push towards exodus for a large number of Tokyo girls. (Not all of them; a lot are still motivated to protect their home city.) We need them to stay there and continue to hunt the normal demons as much as possible, and we don't want them flooding surrounding territories that can't support them, possibly causing new outbreaks of class 3's.
What can we do?
#1
A) We don't actually want to trigger a flee response from the remaining demons, until we have some way to deal with the teleporters. Otherwise we cause problems that none of the surrounding areas are equipped to deal with (that we know of).
B) We know that there are 18 remaining non-teleporters in Tokyo. Not all of them will be in reach (eg: they'll be on the Chiba side), so maybe we can nail a dozen of them along the west and north border areas. Even if Serena only hits one per raid, two raids per day, that's 6 days to finish them off. We've used 1 or 2 of our halftime days so far, which leaves maybe 7 more active days with no particular actions we can take.
C) Can we have Nagoya secure an area for a few days at a time? That is, have their three teams cover a section of Tokyo where they keep chasing off any teleporters that try to enter that area? Then encourage the locals to mass-farm demons in that area for a few days. Then move on to another region.
Risk: Heavy concentration of magical girls may end up leading to a swarm effect that Nagoya can't keep up with. And any retreats may drag out stragglers, causing a disruption of the demons' movement patterns.
D) Can we have Nagoya make strikes at border teleporter demons, and retreat? The point being, there are attacks that don't involve Serena's aura, luring the demons into a false sense that Serena is only a sporadic threat, rather than a continuous one. A couple of false attacks on our off days, between Serena's attacks, to train the demons "down" from Serena's threat. By keeping the attacks short, they should avoid drawing in additional demons, and teleporting out should keep the demons from following them and leaving the border area.
This feels like the most reasonable use of Nagoya at the moment. Counterpoint to Serena's attacks to keep the demons from getting too jittery.
#2
A) Notification of Tokyo of our ongoing results may make some of them think it's time to take advantage of the weakness in the border. We need to convince them that we're making it safer for them in the middle city areas, so they can stay there and hunt more easily. Likewise, the most dangerous of the border demons are still there for the time being.
B) Aside form those we have direct contact with, start building up contacts with the girls we meet during our engagements, to get them to spread the word as well. We're making it safer in the middle areas, so try to stay there.
C) Speaking of contacts: Can we extend the duration of our burner phone activation periods? We'll need at least one more month.
Nice; I especially like the byplay with Kyoko and Keiko.
Anyway, sorry @Elder Haman but I think this time I have to side with @Kinematics and his half-time plan. With the beholder still not-dead, the threat of a swarm of teleporting and/or stealth demons (still a possibility even if individuals flee on sight), I think our Nobody Dies philosophy is best served by keeping the backup team in the area.
I feel that your tone here is really off. I don't think we ought to give any instructions to the Nagoya teams.
I think we just inform them that rather than swarming and attacking us (as we predicted), the teleporters are immediately fleeing. That we are going to focus on clearing the non-teleporter demons this month, while further developing a means to kill the teleporters. We are unsure if the teleporting demons will start trying to flee or not.
And let them decide how they want to handle this.
I don't think we have anyway to control this.
Why can't we reach the Chiba side? If Serena had no support this might be a problem, but with Serena's aura driving the teleporters away and the support team nearby, shouldn't we be able to swing around to the Chiba side while avoiding the central city?
I oppose asking them to do this.
I think that Nagoya can make their own decision if they want to do this.
Except we are not making it safer for them in the center of the city. We are making it safer around the edges.
Distributing the Serene History booklets seems wise. We have enough for every girl in Tokyo.
So I'm finding myself wondering if I should stick to the kinematics/elder haman divide from previous plan cycle since those were backlog vs halftime votes. Or call this a completely new vote and update based off that.
It's still early enough in the month that you could go either route since essentially nothing else has progressed, but on the other hand people were largely voting on month plans before.
Not sure how to swing it.
It's still early enough in the month that you could go either route since essentially nothing else has progressed, but on the other hand people were largely voting on month plans before.
Not sure how to swing it.
Much better. Character interactions were quite good. It's also pretty flexible to matching whatever way the vote goes, since it's just Keiko's plan that might be modified.
No, I'm pretty sure we're actually making it safer in the city center, even if we're mainly killing demons around the edges.
Premises:
- Demons cycle from downtown to the borders frequently, because their instincts tell them not to stay in one place too long, in order to avoid killing off their food source too quickly.
- When inside the inner city, Class 3s are preferentially going to "filter-feed" off of the mundane populace, since the mundane population is so high and dense there.
- When on the borders, Class 3s adopt a "patrol" mindset, preferentially attacking nearby meguca because the nearby population is not dense enough to reliably filter-feed from.
- Teleporting Class 3s are better at "patrolling" for meguca than non-teleporters.
I said middle, not inner/center. The big gap between the border and the inner city.
I don't think they can. They are only somewhat aware of our tactics, and have been brought in as support units. They are supposed to assist us, which means they shouldn't be taking aggressive action in areas that we're involved in without our consent or directive.
So if we want them to do this, we have to tell them.
Maybe? I didn't want to make too many assumptions on that part. If we do, 3 more days would finish off the non-teleporters, unless any stay in the central districts. Still leaves us ~4 days of not much going on, though we can maybe put some second passes in there for stragglers.
Likewise. Mainly brainstorming on ideas.
Yep.
Well, you did explicitly tell us we were probably going to want to change our plans after we saw what was happening, so...
Kinematics Plan
Elder Haman Plan
Major Differences:
Biggest difference is that I propose attacking the eyeball (click the link to the plan for details), now that we know the rest of the teleporters won't intervene. Kinematics instead shifts to a half-time process hunting non-teleporters. My plan should also allow us to spend 3/4 of our girl power on research projects instead of only 1/2.
I have Serena and Team fulltime on hunting, so half their time is spent reviewing the battles, and training to do better. Kinematics peels off some of their time to work on learning Japanese, and dedicates 0.5 vets to helping them.
Somehow Kinematics has enough space to do this as well. Frankly I don't get how 1/2 time results in the same number of meguca months as 3/4 time. From my count it appears that Kinematics is assuming that the actions we have already taken this month cost nothing, and that he can reallocate time without needing to account for the time we have already spent on a different plan.
@inverted_helix Are there any differences in bonuses comparing Kinematics and my plan?
I spend some effort figuring out if there is an easier way to track teleporters. I expect the answer is no, but figure we ought to make sure.
I have Mami on opening relations with Heaven's Chosen, since we know they have teleport interdiction tech, and so I think we ought to try and get the best possible bonus to our initial greeting.
I also open relations with the Republic of Japan, since they seem like the most reasonable of the Osaka groups, and we might need a local ally for additional persuasion of the Heaven's Chosen.
Kinematics has Mami on the Trade Coalition action, and spends 1.5 meguca months there.
I also have Gossipmonger, which Kinematics does not. I'd point out that this was not on the backlog, so we already started doing this according to the previously voted on plan. @inverted_helix Can we drop this without penalty?
Kinematics has also changed our Hunting Plan from using 0.5 elites, 9.5 vets, and 0.5 Seto transport, to 1 elites, 8.5 vets, and 0.5 Seto transport. This is how he gets another vet available. Although it does come at the cost of 0.9 cubes.
@inverted_helix Does this change cause any penalties?
Elder Haman Plan
Major Differences:
Biggest difference is that I propose attacking the eyeball (click the link to the plan for details), now that we know the rest of the teleporters won't intervene. Kinematics instead shifts to a half-time process hunting non-teleporters. My plan should also allow us to spend 3/4 of our girl power on research projects instead of only 1/2.
I have Serena and Team fulltime on hunting, so half their time is spent reviewing the battles, and training to do better. Kinematics peels off some of their time to work on learning Japanese, and dedicates 0.5 vets to helping them.
Somehow Kinematics has enough space to do this as well. Frankly I don't get how 1/2 time results in the same number of meguca months as 3/4 time. From my count it appears that Kinematics is assuming that the actions we have already taken this month cost nothing, and that he can reallocate time without needing to account for the time we have already spent on a different plan.
@inverted_helix Are there any differences in bonuses comparing Kinematics and my plan?
I spend some effort figuring out if there is an easier way to track teleporters. I expect the answer is no, but figure we ought to make sure.
I have Mami on opening relations with Heaven's Chosen, since we know they have teleport interdiction tech, and so I think we ought to try and get the best possible bonus to our initial greeting.
I also open relations with the Republic of Japan, since they seem like the most reasonable of the Osaka groups, and we might need a local ally for additional persuasion of the Heaven's Chosen.
Kinematics has Mami on the Trade Coalition action, and spends 1.5 meguca months there.
I also have Gossipmonger, which Kinematics does not. I'd point out that this was not on the backlog, so we already started doing this according to the previously voted on plan. @inverted_helix Can we drop this without penalty?
Kinematics has also changed our Hunting Plan from using 0.5 elites, 9.5 vets, and 0.5 Seto transport, to 1 elites, 8.5 vets, and 0.5 Seto transport. This is how he gets another vet available. Although it does come at the cost of 0.9 cubes.
@inverted_helix Does this change cause any penalties?
Last edited: