You're taking into account the extra, beyond-the-basic-15 Military Influence cost to get more than one mech out of this, right?
Knight of Dandriss: Stone and Steel
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
We anticipate an extra hab next turn, and even if we have to take econ loans we're going to make it happen. This means our base income will be +2, and we'll have -2 income due to negative/paying new mechs. We'll have -2 influence from the 15 cost, but we have a double patrol and still did a forest patrol this year (which ideally will put us back to 0 Mil influence and only -1 income, otherwise we do patrols regularly enough to recoup the negative within two years). In any case, we're liable to have a surprising surplus of culture, given the number of crits and near-crits we've seen (my god did I mention the crits?), so we can always do a recruiting drive with the excess we'll probably have if we need to burn off a persistent negative.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
[X] Offer to ensure he gets assigned to Razorleaf as a proper post (Costs 15 Military, gain a Light Mech Squadron with 1/12 mechs in it; costs 1 Military Influence a year to fill up, can spend additional Influence to accelerate process; over unit limit costs 1 Economy a year)
Yeah. this gives us -2M and -1E income
The 2M goes to 1M pretty soon
Our current 1M income goes to 2M income at about the same time
Will we actually want a barracks? I think it can wait. The -1E from not having it is easy to deal with
Altogether it'll cost us -11 from mech recruitment, -15 for this option right now, and maybe -4 from debt. Max.
-30M for a full light mech squadron? Yes please.
Re: barracks
Let's not. We can handle the -1E easier than we can handle the loss of a building slot. Might end up getting a factory sooner, but we had people pushing for an early factory anyways.
Yeah. this gives us -2M and -1E income
The 2M goes to 1M pretty soon
Our current 1M income goes to 2M income at about the same time
Will we actually want a barracks? I think it can wait. The -1E from not having it is easy to deal with
Altogether it'll cost us -11 from mech recruitment, -15 for this option right now, and maybe -4 from debt. Max.
-30M for a full light mech squadron? Yes please.
Re: barracks
Let's not. We can handle the -1E easier than we can handle the loss of a building slot. Might end up getting a factory sooner, but we had people pushing for an early factory anyways.
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Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Math error, we've yet to factor in any possible influence gains from double patrol rail and patrol forest. We can probably expect at least 1 mil from that, hopefully 2 and 1 econ, which should completely kill the negative total penalties before the year even ends.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Not an error. I suggested -4 debt as a very pessimistic outcome, and because it rounds it out to 30. That's a nice number.
It's entirely possible that we face no debt at all. -1 from debt is most likely, -2 is pretty likely, -3 is fairly unlikely, -4 is just plain unlucky.
But, as is the nature of things, it's wise to assume a lack of luck when making plans.
- Location
- Hell
[X] Seduce him for the evening
Seems like a push towards a situation that we are not prepared for having no current available space, population, maintenance infrastructure, or influence to have light mechs. This is like trying to take care of komodo dragon in the family car because someone sold it you for half off.
Sure we could eventually take care of it, but that is waay down the road, pushes other things out of the way and leaves less leeway for disaster in nondragon ways.
Seems like a push towards a situation that we are not prepared for having no current available space, population, maintenance infrastructure, or influence to have light mechs. This is like trying to take care of komodo dragon in the family car because someone sold it you for half off.
Sure we could eventually take care of it, but that is waay down the road, pushes other things out of the way and leaves less leeway for disaster in nondragon ways.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
I'd say -2 is the expected minimum. It'd be silly for us to lose influence as a patrol reward unless we get ambushed and crushed.
I could be convinced, if we actually run recruiting drives above and beyond getting out of the red.
Otherwise we're looking at around a decade before we get that barracks, and I think having significantly more habs than our other buildings require as support is likely to have negative consequences.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We don't have a surfeit of habs - we build an entertainment complex in hab 2 and complete the block in hab 3. That takes care of the surfeit of Culture Influence in that stage of our build plan.
There are a lot of little details this changes but ultimately the various changes and costs and things are manageable and if successful this has strong upsides.
[X] Offer to ensure he gets assigned to Razorleaf as a proper post (Costs 15 Military, gain a Light Mech Squadron with 1/12 mechs in it; costs 1 Military Influence a year to fill up, can spend additional Influence to accelerate process; over unit limit costs 1 Economy a year)
- Location
- Brazil
[X] Offer to ensure he gets assigned to Razorleaf as a proper post (Costs 15 Military, gain a Light Mech Squadron with 1/12 mechs in it; costs 1 Military Influence a year to fill up, can spend additional Influence to accelerate process; over unit limit costs 1 Economy a year)
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Well, given our propensity for finding dragons...
Anyways it wouldn't require losing military influence from patrols, just not gaining any.
Anyways anyways, it's beside the point. The point I was making is that actually going into debt here is a minor issue even if you're being pessimistic.
The problem with building a barracks isn't military influence, it's building space. We won't be building a barracks until our 3rd Hab is built, and by then we should have enough military stored up again.
At most, this pushes the barracks back by a single turn as we run a recruitment drive to build up the necessary influence.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There was talk about building two of barracks, factory, or research lab in hab 2 alongside two reactors. With the hefty economy cost of the factory, barracks and research lab were favored. I guess you weren't in on or didn't agree with those plans, but several people did.
However, we don't really need the barracks if we can support the economy cost and get this increased military effectiveness.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
The barracks was included as a 'what if we need more firepower' option, and this neatly solves that. We definitely won't need more firepower, not unless we're plunged into the middle of a massive conflict, and we'd be getting Anna support in that case anyways.
We only have two possible reasons for needing a barracks now: if we want the +3 boost to our military influence (why?), or if we want to remove the -1 Economy influence from being over the unit limit (again, why? Any economy building would be better).
So while I was iffy on the idea of building a Hab-2 barracks before, I'm definitely strongly against it now.
If something comes up, I'll reconsider.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Right, I think it was earlier than you were saying before this due to firepower pressures and now it's later than it would have been since those are solved and we have less mil influence. I think I want Foundry before Barracks with this option taken unless something weird happens with building slots and economy influence.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Yeah, I was initially hoping for factory to wait until Hab-3, but popular demand has it being pushed up to Hab-2, and I'm mostly okay with that. Factory should be useful.
I kinda just assumed we would seduce him next turn. Or marry him.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd rather stay on the schedule our science influence sets for a Reactor Block and do something like Entertainment Complex in hab 2, but it's a minor point - we can decide it when we have more information a few turns from now.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Current build order is approximately
1- Hab
2- Enclave
3- Reactor
4- Entertainment complex
5- Reactor or Factory
6- Reactor or Factory
7- Hab #3
8- Reactor block?
9- Entertainment complex?
10- Lab/barracks/Network Center
11- Lab/barracks/Network Center
12- Entertainment Block?
13- Lab/barracks/Network Center
Entertainment complexes are tricky because they cost 20 culture, and the very important Hab costs 25 culture. So we want to build the Entertainment complex whenever we can, but it's hard to build it right after a Hab, and it's stupid to build it right before a Hab, because then we can't build anything for a turn or two while we save up for that Hab.
Wow I need to use fewer commas.
I'm thinking we build a lab 10th if we can afford it, but it'll probably have to wait until 11th (just finished reactor block?) meaning Barracks 10th, and Network center might have to wait until Hab 4 depending on our science influence, although we should have +12 science income by then so maybe not...
Anyways that's just a rough outlook, things will definitely change. Might get free buildings, might deal with a surplus or deficit of one type of resource, or maybe the voter base will demand a lab suddenly, reactor block be damned!
Edit: if you look at that as a build queue from Civ, our production is pretty sexy; 1-2 turns per building, closer to 1.
Edit 2: in case it wasn't obvious, the ? symbol means it might move around the queue a bit, while the X/Y means that we'd build one or the other, to be determined later. If an X/Y option is near a ? option, then it's subject to switching places with the ? option.
Edit 3: spot the invisitext!
1- Hab
2- Enclave
3- Reactor
4- Entertainment complex
5- Reactor or Factory
6- Reactor or Factory
7- Hab #3
8- Reactor block?
9- Entertainment complex?
10- Lab/barracks/Network Center
11- Lab/barracks/Network Center
12- Entertainment Block?
13- Lab/barracks/Network Center
Entertainment complexes are tricky because they cost 20 culture, and the very important Hab costs 25 culture. So we want to build the Entertainment complex whenever we can, but it's hard to build it right after a Hab, and it's stupid to build it right before a Hab, because then we can't build anything for a turn or two while we save up for that Hab.
Wow I need to use fewer commas.
I'm thinking we build a lab 10th if we can afford it, but it'll probably have to wait until 11th (just finished reactor block?) meaning Barracks 10th, and Network center might have to wait until Hab 4 depending on our science influence, although we should have +12 science income by then so maybe not...
Anyways that's just a rough outlook, things will definitely change. Might get free buildings, might deal with a surplus or deficit of one type of resource, or maybe the voter base will demand a lab suddenly, reactor block be damned!
Edit: if you look at that as a build queue from Civ, our production is pretty sexy; 1-2 turns per building, closer to 1.
Edit 2: in case it wasn't obvious, the ? symbol means it might move around the queue a bit, while the X/Y means that we'd build one or the other, to be determined later. If an X/Y option is near a ? option, then it's subject to switching places with the ? option.
Edit 3: spot the invisitext!
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Valkur
The True Valkyria, Valkur!
- Location
- Fólkvangr
[X] Offer to ensure he gets assigned to Razorleaf as a proper post (Costs 15 Military, gain a Light Mech Squadron with 1/12 mechs in it; costs 1 Military Influence a year to fill up, can spend additional Influence to accelerate process; over unit limit costs 1 Economy a year)
Baby making ahoy!
Baby making ahoy!
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think this vote would probably be played as 'fuck me to advance your career' and is not a wise action.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Offer to ensure he gets assigned to Razorleaf as a proper post (Costs 15 Military, gain a Light Mech Squadron with 1/12 mechs in it; costs 1 Military Influence a year to fill up, can spend additional Influence to accelerate process; over unit limit costs 1 Economy a year)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
2 for a Barracks, 1 for a Hab.