So, if we want this generation to follow in the footsteps of our ancestors...
Marry into Indigo Hammer?

Multiple marriages between us, to tie us tighter together should be of great benefit, yes.
Not at the highest level - to unite the policies too early would be bad, but to be close allies with blood ties...
Yes, I can see it working.

Especially between the two competing trading companies.
 
Multiple marriages between us, to tie us tighter together should be of great benefit, yes.
Not at the highest level - to unite the policies too early would be bad, but to be close allies with blood ties...
Yes, I can see it working.

Especially between the two competing trading companies.
Although we're the PC and seem to be somewhat undergoing a grooming process for leadership, we're not at the highest level, yet.

Presuming we could manage to catch someone fairly influential, the situation could become similar to when Anna had to take over for Max, where we lead one faction and will gradually/eventually lead the other as well.
Of course, I don't really understand the hierarchy of Indigo Hammer, considering the mention made of multiple guiding groups merged into the academic tier they may rule by some sort of council.

Something to think about considering all the dealings we'll be having with them soon (saved Indigo splinter +, involved in VIP loss ~, usurping facemelter round monopoly -).
 
So we're the Diplo-merchant faction covering a mechanised fist. Are we still the research-crazy faction?
Reads like the research factions are Green Owl(hybrid conventional tech base with Anna's giant robot fetish occupying an eighth of it) and Indigo Hammer(Dandriss tech base). The Belters and Authority have fancier peak techs but limited ability to expand it. The Blackthorn are going 'alternative' tech, potentially high risk psionics and repurpised salvage like Ork style, too little data to be sure.

Its known that every faction has a different techtree and thus different prereqs needed to reach techs(also makes tech theft and transfers much harder). The ClF3 darts for instance are REALLY easy for Indigo Hammer to do, but hell for everyone else.

So...no such thing as a super science faction anymore. Science will happen, but the paths will vary a lot.
 
If it weren't for the psychic intervention I'd be wondering if perhaps CrazyDude or another Indigo Hammer faction set this up himself for some reason. Even with it, Blackthorn might have been making a play. They have the most psyker capability and that might have helped them in retroengineering some Reaver tech or getting some insight into the dragons and disguising it as Reaver tech.
Nobody can duplicate reaver tech, and assuming another faction has the capability to create psychoactive machinery that can be masked as Reaver is even more outlandish. We can't shape the wraithbone material, and multiple pieces wouldn't fit the usual aesthetic for something innocuous like a lure.
You can't compare the Codex integration to more or less constant mental torture from the Nightmare Cube. The effects are just too dissimilar, so you can't compare how Elsa and Andraste turned out with how Ella will be affected by the Cube.

Mirande was born before Dia got the Codex, so she didn't have to deal with it's effects growing up.

Dia was shortly insane from having the Codex rammed into her brain until she she properly got it integrated, that's true, but again you can't compare the Codex and the Cube. If you can compare the Codex to one of the Muse extensions it's the Pedagogical accelerator, since both cram knowledge into your brain. The accelerator is designed for doing so without damaging the users mind, unlike the Codex was which was a 'Your questions anoy me. Choke on this!' thing instead.

Dia had to deal with nightmares, but those were either mundane ones and not constant or caused by the daemonic wound. The first kind she dealt with, but she was losing the fight against the second source even with all the increased willpower she had at that point.

Sure the stress from the Cube isn't going to make her suddenly not functional, but the constant mental exhaustion and lack of sleep is going to catch up eventually.

So using the Cube is taking a gamble on Ella holding on long enough.
You forget, all of these upgrades have side effects. The nightmare cube, on the other hand, can have it's side effects turned off if we don't happen to like it after using it for just a single year. The cube is the least of a gamble, but the most time-consuming to get value out of, compared to the others, which we will have to assume don't have debilitating effects on us permanently when we take them.
 
Although we're the PC and seem to be somewhat undergoing a grooming process for leadership, we're not at the highest level, yet.

Presuming we could manage to catch someone fairly influential, the situation could become similar to when Anna had to take over for Max, where we lead one faction and will gradually/eventually lead the other as well.
Of course, I don't really understand the hierarchy of Indigo Hammer, considering the mention made of multiple guiding groups merged into the academic tier they may rule by some sort of council.

Something to think about considering all the dealings we'll be having with them soon (saved Indigo splinter +, involved in VIP loss ~, usurping facemelter round monopoly -).

...
and where exactly in my post did I state that it is the choice of our PC?
What I did was speculate on cosequences of possible political marriages, no more and no less.

The difficulties regarding any integrated political leadership is why I think a lower tier intermarriage and especially an "in" into their trading company would be best - it stands to benefit both sides and lead to better understanding without the extra trouble of going into politics full bore.
 
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You forget, all of these upgrades have side effects. The nightmare cube, on the other hand, can have it's side effects turned off if we don't happen to like it after using it for just a single year. The cube is the least of a gamble, but the most time-consuming to get value out of, compared to the others, which we will have to assume don't have debilitating effects on us permanently when we take them.
No, all three could potentialy have significant drawbacks, in the Cubes case those are in addtion to it's known side effects. At least that's what the option descriptions say. The only description that says that there definetly are side effects is the Cubes and it can still have unknown side effects like the other two do. For the Cube only the known side effects of using it can be turned off, it's still an extension to the already implanted muse like the others. In the case of unexpected side effects removing the extension could be an option, depending on the nature of the side effects.
This and the way it increases willpower makes the Cube a bigger gamble, both on getting value out of it and on the risk side. We can't use it for long amounts of time, so we might not get the one time boost of the Phylactery in a reasonable time frame. Even the accelerator might might be quicker, at least over long timeframes since we can't use the Cube constantly depending on how severe it's side effects are.

So the both the higher risks of the Cube and the limited use we can make of it are making the Cube rather unappealing to me.
 
No, all three could potentialy have significant drawbacks, in the Cubes case those are in addtion to it's known side effects. At least that's what the option descriptions say. The only description that says that there definetly are side effects is the Cubes and it can still have unknown side effects like the other two do. For the Cube only the known side effects of using it can be turned off, it's still an extension to the already implanted muse like the others. In the case of unexpected side effects removing the extension could be an option, depending on the nature of the side effects.
This and the way it increases willpower makes the Cube a bigger gamble, both on getting value out of it and on the risk side. We can't use it for long amounts of time, so we might not get the one time boost of the Phylactery in a reasonable time frame. Even the accelerator might might be quicker, at least over long timeframes since we can't use the Cube constantly depending on how severe it's side effects are.

So the both the higher risks of the Cube and the limited use we can make of it are making the Cube rather unappealing to me.

I very much doubt the cube is an implanted extension to our muse.
If it is developed from the Psy cube, it is probably a physical object we would interact with, not an implant at all.
 
No, all three could potentialy have significant drawbacks, in the Cubes case those are in addtion to it's known side effects. At least that's what the option descriptions say. The only description that says that there definetly are side effects is the Cubes and it can still have unknown side effects like the other two do. For the Cube only the known side effects of using it can be turned off, it's still an extension to the already implanted muse like the others. In the case of unexpected side effects removing the extension could be an option, depending on the nature of the side effects.
This and the way it increases willpower makes the Cube a bigger gamble, both on getting value out of it and on the risk side. We can't use it for long amounts of time, so we might not get the one time boost of the Phylactery in a reasonable time frame. Even the accelerator might might be quicker, at least over long timeframes since we can't use the Cube constantly depending on how severe it's side effects are.

So the both the higher risks of the Cube and the limited use we can make of it are making the Cube rather unappealing to me.
How are we going to fit a cube in Ella's brain exactly? The other two are clearly implants, but the cube is nebulously less so. AN even admits that it is, in effect, an artificial psychoactive device, and I have doubts that our understanding of psionics is advanced enough to miniaturize something of that nature to a brain implant. In fact, @Academia Nut, the first two options are pretty clearly implant upgrades, on a software if not hardware level. Is the nightmare cube also an implant, or is it something we put on our nightstand/something we sit in once a day?

I really can't understand how you can be so willing to use the accelerator. It's clearly the most powerful and versatile option overall, which means that it is inherently the most risky option, not to mention the fact that it doesn't come with an off switch and will obviously have side effects, given it's basically rewiring how Ella stores information forever. The cube is small potatoes compared to the changes that can be wrought by either of the true implants.

For the Cube only the known side effects of using it can be turned off, it's still an extension to the already implanted muse like the others.
I'm specifically separating out this comment because it's unreasonable and silly to think that while we have the nightmare cube, even while it's off and not in use, it will affect us (primarily because I'm assuming it's not an implant, and I consider it an error to believe it is). By the same train of thought, if we never turn it on once as long as we have it, it will still miraculously apply drawbacks to us.
 
[X] Pedagogical accelerator muse extension (Improved learning success; doubles age for the purposes of educational trait requirements)

Kinda agree with @Arbit on this one. Nightmare cube sounds good until you realise it'll probably force us to roll for sanity endurance (and make rolls that require patience and concentration harder if we end up losing sleep). Seeing from our rolls in this quest so far, those penalties will almost certainly bite us in the ass.

True its not an implant, but seriously, I'm sure everyone can agree that the human psyche is remarkably malleable and that the subconscious is really good at picking things up and remembering them even after the active stimuli stops. Hell, isn't that what PTSD and most mental traumas are all about?

You think the side effects could be turned off, but what if part of the nightmare cube ends up being imprinted into Ella's subconscious? From the name, we are effectively picking up a device that creates artificial nightmares, and shoves them into Ella's mind to force her to train her willpower while she sleeps. It's there to basically make her subconscious get used to being mind-raped, A lot of the impact of the object would not be actively measurable until it becomes second nature, like how the Psychers in 40k learn to mumble prayers in their sleep. Ella might just one day realise that nothing really really scares her anymore, and sensing and resisting psychic intrusions are somehow easier, or she could end up having a lot of mental traumas she really had no business getting.

My main fear with the Nightmare cube is that it is the largest time investment, its benefits are vague and side effects won't be actively noticeable until they manifest (and by that time it would be too late to stop), and we are liable to fail and get nothing from it.

Compared to that, the Pedagogical Accelerator has concrete results that would be felt immediately. It might have side effects, but at least those side effects come with certain and reliable returns that will most definitely snowball in effect.
 
I completely expect severe mental illnesses to develop if we use the nightmare cube the half dozen or so times it needs to be equivalent to the other options and I really don't want to read a quest where we do that to ourselves more or less on purpose.
 
[X] Nightmare cube (Guarantees minimum +1 base willpower per year used; greatly improves willpower training; additional side effects when in use)
[X] Stone Reliquary (final resting place of Dia Stone's stasis chamber)

It's a training device. If it's like the puzzle box then we can activate it, use it, get some problem traits, then stop, work off the traits and turn it back on again. Just like exercising.
 
[X] Nightmare cube (Guarantees minimum +1 base willpower per year used; greatly improves willpower training; additional side effects when in use)
[X] Stone Reliquary (final resting place of Dia Stone's stasis chamber)
 
[X] Pedagogical accelerator muse extension (Improved learning success; doubles age for the purposes of educational trait requirements)
 
How are we going to fit a cube in Ella's brain exactly? The other two are clearly implants, but the cube is nebulously less so. AN even admits that it is, in effect, an artificial psychoactive device, and I have doubts that our understanding of psionics is advanced enough to miniaturize something of that nature to a brain implant. In fact, @Academia Nut, the first two options are pretty clearly implant upgrades, on a software if not hardware level. Is the nightmare cube also an implant, or is it something we put on our nightstand/something we sit in once a day?

I really can't understand how you can be so willing to use the accelerator. It's clearly the most powerful and versatile option overall, which means that it is inherently the most risky option, not to mention the fact that it doesn't come with an off switch and will obviously have side effects, given it's basically rewiring how Ella stores information forever. The cube is small potatoes compared to the changes that can be wrought by either of the true implants.


I'm specifically separating out this comment because it's unreasonable and silly to think that while we have the nightmare cube, even while it's off and not in use, it will affect us (primarily because I'm assuming it's not an implant, and I consider it an error to believe it is). By the same train of thought, if we never turn it on once as long as we have it, it will still miraculously apply drawbacks to us.
To adress your last, and @tenchifew, point first:
Yes, the Cube being a muse extension was an error on my part, Academia Nuts response to Abby Normals question and that it's not called a muse extension in the update makes it clear that it isn't one. That makes my arguments against it based on it being a muse extension moot. However it's effects while in use still stand.

However that makes it barely understood psychic technology constructed to assault the users mind. That also has great potential to go wrong. For example it might lock Ella into her nightmares until she breaks out.
@SteampunkGlory has made good points on its mundane effects.

I'm willing to go with the accelerator precisely because it is the most powerful option and I disagree with the opinion that it therefore must have the highest risk. (Edit: I don't think that Academia Nut is neither going to be this predictabe nor lazy.) What it likely does is increase synaptic plasticity to make learning faster and memory better. That is not guaranteed to have side effects and if it has side effects those are not necessarily wholly bad, unmanageable or even irreversible.
 
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To adress your last, and @tenchifew, point first:
Yes, the Cube being a muse extension was an error on my part, Academia Nuts response to Abby Normals question and that it's not called a muse extension in the update makes it clear that it isn't one. That makes my arguments against it based on it being a muse extension moot. However it's effects while in use still stand.

However that makes it barely understood psychic technology constructed to assault the users mind. That also has great potential to go wrong. For example it might lock Ella into her nightmares until she breaks out.
@SteampunkGlory has made good points on its mundane effects.

I'm willing to go with the accelerator precisely because it is the most powerful option and I disagree with the opinion that it therefore must have the highest risk. (Edit: I don't think that Academia Nut is neither going to be this predictabe nor lazy.) What it likely does is increase synaptic plasticity to make learning faster and memory better. That is not guaranteed to have side effects and if it has side effects those are not necessarily wholly bad, unmanageable or even irreversible.

Being psychically assaulted by reavers while not having enough willpower can also go horifically wrong.
I prefer to get the willpower to be able to resist that.

Each and every one technology here is risky, but we are getting it from our grand grandmother, who likes us, and it is a result of research of researchers who are among the best on the planet, so it is not chaos tech and not something designed to fuck us over.

Thus, having the alternatives of danger of reavers or dangers of the cube, I choose the cube.
 
My main fear with the Nightmare cube is that it is the largest time investment, its benefits are vague and side effects won't be actively noticeable until they manifest (and by that time it would be too late to stop), and we are liable to fail and get nothing from it.

Compared to that, the Pedagogical Accelerator has concrete results that would be felt immediately. It might have side effects, but at least those side effects come with certain and reliable returns that will most definitely snowball in effect.
I'm going to have to call bull on that assessment. The pedagogue accelerator is, in fact, significantly less reliable than the cube. It's only bonuses present when a considerable amount of time is spent building up attributes and stats. In comparison, the nightmare cube guarantees at least 1 willpower per year, with a willpower training synergy that is even stronger than the pedagogue bonus by at least one more degree of success (considering training willpower is in the hardest training category, this is extremely useful), to top off the fact that it's side effects are psychological rather than purely physical chemical/hardware changes to the brain.

The absolute maximum for the cube to mimic the phylactery's baseline is 5 years. If we assume a 10% chance of stat gains (in the core stat tree, the hardest to build up) per training session as natural, then we could see as high as 30-40% chance with the cube, and 20%, tops, with the pedagogue. This means it would take between 10 and 15 years of continuous willpower training with the pedagogue to imitate what could probably be done in 3 to 4 years with the cube.
However that makes it barely understood psychic technology constructed to assault the users mind. That also has great potential to go wrong. For example it might lock Ella into her nightmares until she breaks out.
@SteampunkGlory has made good points on its mundane effects.

I'm willing to go with the accelerator precisely because it is the most powerful option and I disagree with the opinion that it therefore must have the highest risk. (Edit: I don't think that Academia Nut is neither going to be this predictabe nor lazy.) What it likely does is increase synaptic plasticity to make learning faster and memory better. That is not guaranteed to have side effects and if it has side effects those are not necessarily wholly bad, unmanageable or even irreversible.
The implant is a purely physical phenomena, which alters the way the brain stores and retrieves information by offloading to/requiring data to pass through the implant. You want to pretty up the implant's potential drawbacks? Total and potentially irreversible anterograde and/or retrograde amnesia if the implant is damaged, fails, or doesn't function as intended in a critical way. Perhaps it could cause Alzheimer-like symptoms if the brain can't parse the altered storage medium correctly. Even for less severe drawback reactions, there's plenty of assorted functional memory disorders that the implant could cause, and cause for years as the brain adjusts to it, or even if it was removed.

Call me crazy, but I'll take 'temporary coma' over that any time, especially considering it's a small issue for someone else to turn the cube off if we don't wake up for a day. I wouldn't even be surprised if failsafes existed that turned it off automatically if it doesn't get some kind of input after a long enough session.

And going back to Steampunkglory for a second, in the same way major side-effects of cube use may take time to present, the implant has an assimilation period where the brain redirects neurons to new functions that, for tasks as small as limb movement, takes up to half a year. It would take at least a year, probably two, before the implant was fully integrated and could start showing signs of hardware failure.
 
Being psychically assaulted by reavers while not having enough willpower can also go horifically wrong.
I prefer to get the willpower to be able to resist that.

Each and every one technology here is risky, but we are getting it from our grand grandmother, who likes us, and it is a result of research of researchers who are among the best on the planet, so it is not chaos tech and not something designed to fuck us over.

Thus, having the alternatives of danger of reavers or dangers of the cube, I choose the cube.
If all you want is willpower to resist the Reavers, get the Phylactery. That gives a lot of willpower and it gives it now, so it doesn't have a timeframe where Ella is vulnerable to Reaver attack while with the Cube such a timeframe exists. In addition to that if we are in our mech or have other equipment that gives a bonus to resist tlepathic attacks.

Yes, they all are potentialy risky and I never said that it's chaos tech. I said it's not well understood and thus carries unknown risks with it.

Even with the cube there is a sizeable timeframe where the Reaver mastermind is far stronger than Ella, so if I wanted something that boosted willpower I'd get the Phylactery. Also the Accelerator helps with all learning and that includes willpower and sure it won't be as good as the Cube, but it still does.

The implant is a purely physical phenomena, which alters the way the brain stores and retrieves information by offloading to/requiring data to pass through the implant. You want to pretty up the implant's potential drawbacks? Total and potentially irreversible anterograde and/or retrograde amnesia if the implant is damaged, fails, or doesn't function as intended in a critical way. Perhaps it could cause Alzheimer-like symptoms if the brain can't parse the altered storage medium correctly. Even for less severe drawback reactions, there's plenty of assorted functional memory disorders that the implant could cause, and cause for years as the brain adjusts to it, or even if it was removed.

Call me crazy, but I'll take 'temporary coma' over that any time, especially considering it's a small issue for someone else to turn the cube off if we don't wake up for a day. I wouldn't even be surprised if failsafes existed that turned it off automatically if it doesn't get some kind of input after a long enough session.
Those are the worst case scenarios of using the Accelerator and are very unlikely to happen, since the researchers developing them aren't idiots and wouldn't propose them for field testing if those very likely to happen. Sure there could be some adjusment issues, but again I don't think they are all that likely to happen.
And while we are on the topic of worst case scenarios, the ones of using the Cube are shattering Ellas mind or killing her by cardiac arrest. For less severe drawbacks the Cube can cause various phobic and sleep disorders.

So call me crazy but I'm not taking something that can potentialy kill Ella, put her in an inderterminate coma or make her catatonic in favour of something that makes learning actions far more effective and has known side effects and is an improvement of already well understood technology.
 
If all you want is willpower to resist the Reavers, get the Phylactery. That gives a lot of willpower and it gives it now, so it doesn't have a timeframe where Ella is vulnerable to Reaver attack while with the Cube such a timeframe exists. In addition to that if we are in our mech or have other equipment that gives a bonus to resist tlepathic attacks.

Yes, they all are potentialy risky and I never said that it's chaos tech. I said it's not well understood and thus carries unknown risks with it.

Even with the cube there is a sizeable timeframe where the Reaver mastermind is far stronger than Ella, so if I wanted something that boosted willpower I'd get the Phylactery. Also the Accelerator helps with all learning and that includes willpower and sure it won't be as good as the Cube, but it still does.

Those are the worst case scenarios of using the Accelerator and are very unlikely to happen, since the researchers developing them aren't idiots and wouldn't propose them for field testing if those very likely to happen. Sure there could be some adjusment issues, but again I don't think they are all that likely to happen.
And while we are on the topic of worst case scenarios, the ones of using the Cube are shattering Ellas mind or killing her by cardiac arrest. For less severe drawbacks the Cube can cause various phobic and sleep disorders.

So call me crazy but I'm not taking something that can potentialy kill Ella, put her in an inderterminate coma or make her catatonic in favour of something that makes learning actions far more effective and has known side effects and is an improvement of already well understood technology.
The phylactery implant is ten points on a check. That might as well be fried beans compared to a reaver mastermind, who will be a constant and annoying thorn for at least a decade, if not more. That leaves it to the two 'accelerated learning' tools to be the only good choices to deal with anything worse than reaver fodder.

It's a poor argument to say 'this is the worst-case scenario for your thing' and then say 'it's highly unlikely for the scenario you described to happen with my thing.' No duh the worst case scenario probably won't happen. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and arguing that 'it probably won't happen' while also arguing based on the worst case scenarios in the other direction is duplicitous at best. As I said, even moderate drawbacks are pretty horrible for the pedagogue, while even the somewhat severe drawbacks for the cube are manageable, treatable conditions that don't preclude the use of the device in the future, unlike a failure with the implants. Furthermore, it's at least five times faster at reinforcing our Willpower, which more than makes up for not having the improved learning effect elsewhere in both the short and mid term. Long term, with minimal drawbacks or mitigated drawbacks, the pedagogue is very nice. But things don't like us now, so the phylactery is a band-aid at it's best that will always fall short of a further-thinking solution, and the pedagogue can't guarantee the returns we need at the same rate the cube can. Our other stats are reliable or otherwise not at the forefront of our regular checks, yet our willpower is eight and we can expect to use it at least once every other year and failures in said checks are catastrophically bad, with the first being effectively mission-killed until they left (or, we can assume, we passed a subsequent check), and the second totally removing a vote opportunity.

Tl;dr, the pedagogue is too slow and the phylactery is too rigid. The cube gives nigh-immediate rewards and can equal the phylactery early enough that we'll effectively have it in five years or less, and on the chance that it's drawbacks are too severe, we can always shut it off and let it collect dust, unlike the implants.
 
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I'm going to have to call bull on that assessment. The pedagogue accelerator is, in fact, significantly less reliable than the cube. It's only bonuses present when a considerable amount of time is spent building up attributes and stats. In comparison, the nightmare cube guarantees at least 1 willpower per year, with a willpower training synergy that is even stronger than the pedagogue bonus by at least one more degree of success (considering training willpower is in the hardest training category, this is extremely useful), to top off the fact that it's side effects are psychological rather than purely physical chemical/hardware changes to the brain.

First of all, I'm having trouble understanding your calculations on the Cube's willpower gain. Maybe because I'm not as used as you are in actively participating in one of AN's quests. So Phylactery's baseline is 10+ willpower. Every year of usage of Cube is +1, with added chance of succeeding in Willpower training along with it.

It is my understanding that 1 turn = 1 year. And that successfully training a stat increases it by 1.

The absolute maximum for the cube to mimic the phylactery's baseline is 5 years.

So where did you get that statement? If anything 5 years should be the minimum. You are also assuming we would always have the personal actions available to train Willpower. As far as I know, we haven't trained any stat at all so far.

Also, of course the experimental psychic torture cube is better in training willpower then the pedagogue accelerator! It's the only thing it does! The pedagogue accelerator in a general device that helps increases learning of all types. I.e, it would always be relevant. As for your assumed calculations, you are trying to add in hard numbers and probabilities where AN has given none, so excuse me for doubting its validity.

Furthermore, the fact that the cube's effects are Purely psychological is what makes me want to avoid it. High tech science and meds can reverse, heal, or at the very least minimise and track the chemical effects and to a lesser degree the physical effects, but how can you heal something as abstract as the human psyche? There's a reason why PTSD is still considered a silent killer in even developed countries. You can only meditate the side-effects, but not the mental trauma itself.


The implant is a purely physical phenomena, which alters the way the brain stores and retrieves information by offloading to/requiring data to pass through the implant. You want to pretty up the implant's potential drawbacks? Total and potentially irreversible anterograde and/or retrograde amnesia if the implant is damaged, fails, or doesn't function as intended in a critical way. Perhaps it could cause Alzheimer-like symptoms if the brain can't parse the altered storage medium correctly. Even for less severe drawback reactions, there's plenty of assorted functional memory disorders that the implant could cause, and cause for years as the brain adjusts to it, or even if it was removed.

Call me crazy, but I'll take 'temporary coma' over that any time, especially considering it's a small issue for someone else to turn the cube off if we don't wake up for a day. I wouldn't even be surprised if failsafes existed that turned it off automatically if it doesn't get some kind of input after a long enough session.

And going back to Steampunkglory for a second, in the same way major side-effects of cube use may take time to present, the implant has an assimilation period where the brain redirects neurons to new functions that, for tasks as small as limb movement, takes up to half a year. It would take at least a year, probably two, before the implant was fully integrated and could start showing signs of hardware failure.

Here my objection come back to the difference in nature of our to experimental devices. One has a purely physical impact on our body, so any problems are at the very least, easily noticeable and repaired to some degree. While I fully accept that both devices have drawbacks, let me point out that the nightmare cube is the only option that is specifically stated to have side-effects, and that prototype does not mean never tested. Catastrophic failure on the part of the implant can be easily discounted, I very much doubt that Anna would offer such a dangerous device to Ella. Perhaps some level of rejection, but the scenario you drew up is quite the exaggeration. I am not stating that the Cube could cause catatonic shutdown, but even 'minor' mental disorders can be a huge pain.

I never stated that the Nightmare Cube would cause Ella to be locked in a psychic torture induced coma. You stated yourself though, that the neutron assimilation period would take about a year (again not sure where you got that from, and even if that is true in present times, this age might have ways to accelerate it). That means that within a year/turn, we would have some idea on what the long-term side effects would be. The cube on the other hand, needs to be used at least 5 years to be possibly be worth the opportunity cost of getting the phylactery. Each year has a chance to aggravate any disorders and/or debuffs we get from using it, unless we space the years out. Then you might as well change the minimum time to 10 years then.

Also, consider the years where we do use it. I am positive it would make certain rolls harder, and that might include increased weakness to Psychic attacks. Using what logic? Well, is it easier to be patient when you are having a good day or a bad day? In the same vein a mind that is exhausted from resisting psychic attacks every night would be easier to breach. So why would we get an Item that has certainly has harmful side effects that can be potentially large and takes a long time to mature (making us weaker while using it) to address an immediate problem? Even the Phylactery is a better choice then the nightmare cube!

I still expect it to come with a weakness to psy. Fun times!

Baseless speculation. I see no correlation.

EDIT: Bah, should have refreshed the page. Didn't see your latest answer @Powerofmind, and I just remembered that a check is (stat)x2, so I understand your reasoning now.
 
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[X] Nightmare cube (Guarantees minimum +1 base willpower per year used; greatly improves willpower training; additional side effects when in use)
[X] Stone Reliquary (final resting place of Dia Stone's stasis chamber)

I chose the cube simply because IT CAN BE TURNED OFF! :p

Seriously, that's the decider for me.
 
Guys, calm down. Chill before you all get too invested and bring in modhammers.

EVERYTHING we know about the items are educated guesses, all of them have unknown complications, and differing difficulties of dealing with them. Relax a bit.

Think of it as three different approaches:
-Technological Transhumanism - We get mental circuit breakers, and cyberization route. More machine, less meat to affect as we replace more stuff.
-Mental Transhumanism - We change how we learn, we go transcendental mentality and transition towards(not into, it's just one step, not the destination) a machine intelligence and defend that way.
-Psychic Unlocking - The cube is blatantly a knockoff of the puzzlebox(which, as have been noted on the old quest, would do nothing for a normal human but whammy their brainmeats if they lacked the power and will to deal with it), and what THAT is used for is to test for psykers and to train them. Mental disorders are possible, but Anna would know about those from testing. What she doesn't know is if you DID have psychic potential, what might happen with the cube.
 
-Psychic Unlocking - The cube is blatantly a knockoff of the puzzlebox(which, as have been noted on the old quest, would do nothing for a normal human but whammy their brainmeats if they lacked the power and will to deal with it), and what THAT is used for is to test for psykers and to train them. Mental disorders are possible, but Anna would know about those from testing. What she doesn't know is if you DID have psychic potential, what might happen with the cube.
Isn't this that testing?
 
First of all, I'm having trouble understanding your calculations on the Cube's willpower gain. Maybe because I'm not as used as you are in actively participating in one of AN's quests. So Phylactery's baseline is 10+ willpower. Every year of usage of Cube is +1, with added chance of succeeding in Willpower training along with it.

It is my understanding that 1 turn = 1 year. And that successfully training a stat increases it by 1.

So where did you get that statement? If anything 5 years should be the minimum. You are also assuming we would always have the personal actions available to train Willpower. As far as I know, we haven't trained any stat at all so far.

Also, of course the experimental psychic torture cube is better in training willpower then the pedagogue accelerator! It's the only thing it does! The pedagogue accelerator in a general device that helps increases learning of all types. I.e, it would always be relevant. As for your assumed calculations, you are trying to add in hard numbers and probabilities where AN has given none, so excuse me for doubting its validity.

Furthermore, the fact that the cube's effects are Purely psychological is what makes me want to avoid it. High tech science and meds can reverse, heal, or at the very least minimise and track the chemical effects and to a lesser degree the physical effects, but how can you heal something as abstract as the human psyche? There's a reason why PTSD is still considered a silent killer in even developed countries. You can only meditate the side-effects, but not the mental trauma itself.
The phylactery gives 10 to willpower checks, not 10 willpower. Willpower checks use 2*Willpower and the die roll. Thus, five years is indeed the maximum time it takes to mimic the phylactery's baseline, and not have any inherent weakness that may arise from implant failure due to angry psychic lightning or other shenanigans.

The cube facilitates willpower gain, and thus makes training in the stat more desirable as a voting choice for a personal action. It is best to view a vote for either the pedagogue or the cube as an upcoming investment of personal actions for growth, otherwise, why the hell are you voting for them if you don't plan to use them?

We have not yet developed to the point that we can just graft on some new brain matter and say 'all better!' when something goes wrong on the physical end of mental issues. Assuming that a physical problem caused by the implants will be inherently easier to repair than a psychological disorder is a quick route to being unpleasantly surprised if it can't be corrected.

Here my objection come back to the difference in nature of our to experimental devices. One has a purely physical impact on our body, so any problems are at the very least, easily noticeable and repaired to some degree. While I fully accept that both devices have drawbacks, let me point out that the nightmare cube is the only option that is specifically stated to have side-effects, and that prototype does not mean never tested. Catastrophic failure on the part of the implant can be easily discounted, I very much doubt that Anna would offer such a dangerous device to Ella. Perhaps some level of rejection, but the scenario you drew up is quite the exaggeration. I am not stating that the Cube could cause catatonic shutdown, but even 'minor' mental disorders can be a huge pain.

I never stated that the Nightmare Cube would cause Ella to be locked in a psychic torture induced coma. You stated yourself though, that the neutron assimilation period would take about a year (again not sure where you got that from, and even if that is true in present times, this age might have ways to accelerate it). That means that within a year/turn, we would have some idea on what the long-term side effects would be. The cube on the other hand, needs to be used at least 5 years to be possibly be worth the opportunity cost of getting the phylactery. Each year has a chance to aggravate any disorders and/or debuffs we get from using it, unless we space the years out. Then you might as well change the minimum time to 10 years then.

Also, consider the years where we do use it. I am positive it would make certain rolls harder, and that might include increased weakness to Psychic attacks. Using what logic? Well, is it easier to be patient when you are having a good day or a bad day? In the same vein a mind that is exhausted from resisting psychic attacks every night would be easier to breach. So why would we get an Item that has certainly has harmful side effects that can be potentially large and takes a long time to mature (making us weaker while using it) to address an immediate problem? Even the Phylactery is a better choice then the nightmare cube!
I am left to say that, again, double-standard argument won't get you anywhere. If Anna wouldn't give us implants that had a chance of catastrophic failure or serious rejection drawbacks, why would she give us the nightmare cube if it could produce such extremely debilitating side-effects when used correctly? You can't argue that one choice is safe with sunshine, rainbows, and kittens on the premise that Anna wouldn't give it to us if it wasn't like that, and at the same time argue that the other choice will almost definitely kill baby Jesus because Anna apparently has no scruples.
 
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