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General Exalted Thread

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Cyreni said:
I often see Abyssals derided here for being emo clones of Solars. Is there anything Abyssal that SV likes?
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They can form weapons from their own blood. They can cure sickness by eating disease. They can let their deathly power warp them, granting them bone claws or poison blood or the grave's freedom from hunger. Their mastery of the dread powers of necromancy is without peer and their Hero Style has one charm best used while shouting "Finish him!"
 
Bursting Eagerness Soul said:
B: You are asking questions that have either already been answered (just not in a way that you like), are so broad as to be more relevant to a general philosophy class than Exalted, or are just plain stupid. Also, almost all of them are phrased in such a way that they either read as an argument or as a small child asking an adult "why?" endlessly and in response to every answer.
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Good to know. Any ideas to help me fix it, rather than just having me leave?
Random Entity said:
Start with world peace - real-world peace. It's simpler, and the principles should cross-apply.
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Really? Exalted is a setting where convincing people to do things is literally a roll of the dice, and can be enhanced with magic. The real world is filled with real people, and you can't just spend a decade in the mountains, amassing the power to kill everyone and take their stuff.
(You probably can't actually do that in Exalted, either, but the principle applies. To 'win' Exalted, you need to be clever and somewhat lucky, with a willing Storyteller. To achieve World Peace, a lot of people have to be Not Stupid [and not too greedy].)
 
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HoratioVonBecker said:
Really? Exalted is a setting where convincing people to do things is literally a roll of the dice, and can be enhanced with magic.
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And where some people - people with a combination of political power and personal lethality that no human on Earth has ever achieved - can make themselves literally immune to your dice (at a cost).

Possibly by the simple expedient of rolling Join Battle when you start trying to persuade them they should be less of a dick.
 
grommile said:
And where some people - people with a combination of political power and personal lethality that no human on Earth has ever achieved - can make themselves literally immune to your dice (at a cost).

Possibly by the simple expedient of rolling Join Battle when you start trying to persuade them they should be less of a jerk.
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And where they can, to a man, be defeated by a well prepared assailant.
Hey, is it possible to knock a Solar down to zero Motes without killing them?
notthepenguins said:
Well, you could start by actually reading the sourcebooks.
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Do you have a suggestion for how I could do that? Legally, without actually buying them?
 
The really interesting thing about the thread @Roadie linked is that there seems to be quite a bit of salt between Holden and the nWoD 2e guys.

Given that the latter have dropped scaling XP costs and people seem happy about that.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
The really interesting thing about the thread @Roadie linked is that there seems to be quite a bit of salt between Holden and the nWoD 2e guys.

Given that the latter have dropped scaling XP costs and people seem happy about that.
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You either shouldn't have scaling XP, or you should build character with XP rather then some other form of build point non-scaling build-point. Having it both ways encourages weirdness, like how four dots is supposed to mean you're one of the best in the world, while at the same time making it common and average for any skill truly important to your character. If you have five in a skill... you can't get better at that skill. Therefore you probably shouldn't be starting at five, and tasks that expect five should be rare.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
Like who? The Neverborn? I have literally no idea how to help them, besides teaching them Adorjani Charms. Who else? My non-Infernal knowledge mostly predates Alchemicals. I've been focusing on the Yozis because they came up in the discussion.
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Like all the actual human beings facing slavery, torture, and unjust imprisonment through Creation?

Or, for that matter, everything that lives in Creation if the Yozis escape.

vicky_molokh said:
Creation, the Incarnae, and even the humans themselves - none of this would've existed if not the work of Primordials. Even though the Primordials are narcissistic entities trying to enforce arbitrary rules and occasionally damn someone to eternal torment. People seem to be commonly okay with this argument for submitting to YHWH, so don't tell me there's no precedent for this being a good argument for at least a couple of billion people . . .
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This is an argument cut from the same cloth as "black people would have had shitty lives in Africa, so really, they should thank the Europeans for enslaving them and shipping them off to the Americas." Yes, that's an actual argument people make.

It's also pretty much the same argument as "you shouldn't go to prison for abusing your kids - if it weren't for you, they wouldn't even exist, so how is that a crime?"
 
Revlid said:
Like all the actual human beings facing slavery, torture, and unjust imprisonment through Creation?

Or, for that matter, everything that lives in Creation if the Yozis escape.
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And once again, enough firepower to keep them in check would be key...
Revlid said:
It's also pretty much the same argument as "you shouldn't go to prison for abusing your kids - if it weren't for you, they wouldn't even exist, so how is that a crime?"
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I think he's not endorsing it so much as pointing out that it's entirely plausible.
Granted, Jesus/Jehovah was actually a lot nicer than later Catholic canon would imply, so it's not a perfect map, but not so much so that it doesn't work.
 
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HoratioVonBecker said:
And once again, enough firepower to keep them in check would be key...
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Impossible. No, really, impossible - no one person can have that much firepower, as a simple matter of fact. Once you start distributing it between people, well, now you have to play politics. With people who you've given superweapons on a scale that matters to a Primordial. That does not sound like a terribly stable position to me...
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
And once again, enough firepower to keep them in check would be key...
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The issue is that you aren't comprehending the amount of firepower that would be needed to keep them in check, especially the difference between Creation now and Creation in the First age. It's the equivalent of a getting a bunch of isolated pacific Islanders to band together and advance tech to the point that they can beat the USA. Except even harder.
 
Revlid said:
This is an argument cut from the same cloth as "black people would have had shitty lives in Africa, so really, they should thank the Europeans for enslaving them and shipping them off to the Americas." Yes, that's an actual argument people make.

It's also pretty much the same argument as "you shouldn't go to prison for abusing your kids - if it weren't for you, they wouldn't even exist, so how is that a crime?"
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And the same cloth as 'the best of worlds', and many other similar stances on why one should submit to the deities. Since Primordials are pretty much filling the same niche, there surely will be people advocating submitting to them by the same arguments, like there are now and and have been in the past such people advocating submitting to the will of deities from non-Exalted mythologies.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
Corollary: some people have Gunbusters.
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Looks like it's come up again, so I'll comment on this: No. No one does. There is no one in the setting but Sol Invictus himself who can wrestle with Isidoros.

There is no Gunbuster stored in a vault for a rainy day. There is no Ultimate Nullifier, to be presented to the heroes in their moment of darkest despair. They do not exist, have never existed.

There is no quality that renders an Exalt equal to a Titan. No special trick, no secret potential to unlock.

You can't go it alone. You can't beat it with main force. You need allies, many of them, support, and a plan.

And even if the stars align, even if you can put that together, Creation burns. The sheer collateral damage of a Primordial's might is obscene, and the level of destruction Isidoros or Adorjan or She Who Lives In Her Name could do in even mere hours unopposed is utterly catastrophic.
 
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Random Entity said:
Impossible. No, really, impossible - no one person can have that much firepower, as a simple matter of fact. Once you start distributing it between people, well, now you have to play politics. With people who you've given superweapons on a scale that matters to a Primordial. That does not sound like a terribly stable position to me...
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'People given god-killing superweapons who could do amazing things but instead are all fighting each other and making everything worse'?

This sounds really familiar...
 
vicky_molokh said:
But . . . but . . . but what about them Devil-Tigger Tricks?
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Nope. Devil Tigers trade increased flexibility for raw power. They top out at E10, while true Primordials are Essence N/A bullshit megaentities whose souls hit that level. A powerful Devil Tiger should ultimately balance against a powerful elder Solar, and a powerful elder Solar cannot solo Creation, let alone the Yozis.
 
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