Of course the freed Yozi would treat humanity with mercy. Humans were gentle, delicate, and spiritual creatures who deserved no less. It's a tragedy that the Gods and their Champions destroyed them all. Most were killed and the remainder corrupted into the dread Tiger Warriors. Ravenous and implacable monsters utterly without fear, packs of them would descend upon helpless creatures like blood apes and devour them utterly. Just another of one of the many crimes for which the Gods and their followers must answer.
 
I don't want to own the sourcebooks, (Infernal Ew, Lunar Ew, [occasional?] Solar Ew, I'm wary of Abyssals and Alchemicals) and I don't want to resort to piracy.
Then why the actual fuck are you trying to argue shit about them? What you are doing can be likened to arguing about Harry Potter canon, while having only read fanfiction and refusing to buy/read the actual fucking books. It is aggravating as all hell to have to wade through your shitty arguments to get to bits of stuff in the thread that are actually fucking relevant to Exalted.
 
It's a horrible, vile argument. There is nothing just about it, it's just "might makes right" worded differently.
It would logically also apply to your parents. After all, without them, you would not exist. You owe everything to them. So if they ask that you devote your entire life to them, preferably while suffering, well that's just fair, right? And if they want to kill you, well that's morally fair, they made you after all.

Or maaybe it's a horrible argument. Even people who use it for religious reasons usually tamper it with some "higher plan" that exists for mortals. Something which was never a thing in Exalted - while someone in-universe may not know, out of universe we do. Humans were made to be prayer engines, and suffering was an in-built feature because it'd lead to more prayer.
It's certainly something that people in the setting may find to be the right thing, just like some do in ours. In fact, examples of parents selling their children into slavery and this being seen as fair existed and probably exist in some societies as of now. And the right of a parent to kill the child has also been a thing.
Horrible? Well, yeah, from the PoV of us, (hopefully) more enlightened people. But people are different, they can have all sorts of different perspectives.

Here's one example of a similar perspective as applied to Yozis specifically.
And if you just happen to like science fiction and wildly different moral-ethical perspectives, you can also look at Three Worlds Collide. It's fascinating as a philosophical demonstration of different perspectives.
 
Like who? The Neverborn? I have literally no idea how to help them, besides teaching them Adorjani Charms. Who else? My non-Infernal knowledge mostly predates Alchemicals. I've been focusing on the Yozis because they came up in the discussion.
What about the raksha, the original masters of the universe? Now trapped between a boiling rock and a sea full of monsters that they're not longer safe in, who delighted in Raw Chaos before the Primordials ruined their grand narrative plays, chained them to loathsome Shape and hateful Time, slew countless trillions of them for sport and tore control of Creation from based on nothing but brute force and own arrogance.

What about the countless hordes of First Circle demons? Serfs abused by their masters who outnumber the mortals of Creation as do all the grains of sand that have ever existed since time began. Whose lives are short and violent and horrible - and will be no less so should the Yozis be freed, for they were always thus; the hierarchy of the Unquestionable and the serfs below them existed even in the Age of Glories. Who die by their trillion every time a Yozi throws a temper tantrum; more sapient lives than exist in all Creation snuffed out in the blink of an eye by a fit of titanic pique.

What about those trapped in soulsteel? Condemned to unending agony and suffering that lets them do nothing but moan and scream beneath the midnight metal's patina when they surface from tormented slumber deep within, who don't even have the release of death granted to them?

What about the mortals of Creation? They're used and abused like toys by those more powerful than them for whatever whim their divine or Exalted masters come up with - and you're no different; you'd still be employing them as tools in your crusade to bring your brand of justice to those you think worthy of it for your own ends. Not once in the history of Creation have mortals truly been independent from the tyranny of others, not even in this Age of Sorrows where they come closest to it due to the scattered and fractured nature of the Exalted Host. The Primordial War merely traded one set of unassailable masters over all humanity for another, and in many ways they were no more human than the last lot.

How about homeless gods in Yu Shan, begging for spare ambrosia and sleeping rough in the parks and gardens of Heaven until wealthier spirits call the Celestial Lions to chase them into the slums? How about ghosts; maddened and pinned to their Passions and obsessions, terrified of Oblivion and driven to the point of insanity by whatever's keeping them from falling into Lethe? How about the People of Adamant, the Autocthonians, the Lintha or the Dune Folk?

It's harder to find groups who aren't suffering in some way, and who don't have a pretty story of their grievances to tell. The Yozi are hardly unique in knowing pain and suffering and having someone to blame for it. And they're responsible for far more pain than most others who can claim the same; both now and in the past. If you're looking for someone to redeem and give aid to, there are a lot of groups more deserving of it than the fallen All-Makers, no matter how seductive their words or shining their past glories.
Were the humans training or arming the Exalted? That seems like a sufficiently clear line, so long as I could persuade them to treat humans on a case-by-case basis.
When you find an ant's nest attacking your kitchen, do you carefully make sure to squash only the ants who actually, personally invaded your home? Or do you just gas the whole nest? Because if you think the Yozis will ever, ever trust humanity to exist ever again, you are hilariously naive.
 
...

Right, I'm done here.
I'm sorry for bothering you.
What you are doing can be likened to arguing about Harry Potter canon, while having only read fanfiction and refusing to buy/read the actual books.
It's substantially different, because A: my local library has Harry Potter, so I can read it without resorting to the options I mentioned, and B: I'm not generally arguing, I'm asking questions. When I do argue, I do it with stuff other people have presented in this thread.
It's harder to find groups who aren't suffering in some way, and who don't have a pretty story of their grievances to tell. The Yozi are hardly unique in knowing pain and suffering and having someone to blame for it. And they're responsible for far more pain than most others who can claim the same; both now and in the past. If you're looking for someone to redeem and give aid to, there are a lot of groups more deserving of it than the fallen All-Makers, no matter how seductive their words or shining their past glories.
Right, let me amend that to Grand Plan to Fix Everything...
 
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Is there anything Abyssal that SV likes?
The Most Secret And Sorrowful Of The Bearers Of The Endless Destiny Of All Creation Which Wander Amidst Forgotten Sights And Fallen Tears Along The Tread Of Ancient Ashen Footsteps Through The Shadow Of That Which Comes And Into That Riotous Cacophony Which Births All Fools And Steals All Beauty, Who Heralds Through Her Silence The Stillness And Chill Of Those Who Were Not Born And Who Will Fade 'Till All Things Fall And In That Most Grim Harvest Form The Final Restful Tomb Of All Awakened Life And All The Sleepless De-

Only stamina two?
 
The Most Secret And Sorrowful Of The Bearers Of The Endless Destiny Of All Creation Which Wander Amidst Forgotten Sights And Fallen Tears Along The Tread Of Ancient Ashen Footsteps Through The Shadow Of That Which Comes And Into That Riotous Cacophony Which Births All Fools And Steals All Beauty, Who Heralds Through Her Silence The Stillness And Chill Of Those Who Were Not Born And Who Will Fade 'Till All Things Fall And In That Most Grim Harvest Form The Final Restful Tomb Of All Awakened Life And All The Sleepless De-

Only stamina two?
Keychain Of Creation is good stuff.
often see Abyssals derided here for being emo clones of Solars. Is there anything Abyssal that SV likes?
They're not bad for Doomed Hometowns.
 
Right, let me amend that to Grand Plan to Fix Everything...
That doesn't seem to be so much a plan as an intention. Even granting that 'conquer everything' constitutes a plan (EDIT: this is not something I'm inclined to grant on its own merits), fixing everything is rather more involved than simply being in charge - even assuming that everyone obeys the conquering tyrant!
 
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I don't want to own the sourcebooks, (Infernal Ew, Lunar Ew, [occasional?] Solar Ew, I'm wary of Abyssals and Alchemicals) and I don't want to resort to piracy.
... Then why are you here? You just expressed distaste for almost the entire gameline.

Maybe, but not by me. I just don't understand your "answer".
:jackiechan:
Soulsteel screams because it's in pain. Eternal agony. Unending torture. It has nothing to do with the Neverborn and everything to do with the fact that there are souls melted and hammered into the ore.
My actual question, rephrased for clarity: "Wouldn't the Neverborn prefer Soulsteel to be silent?"
The Neverborn don't give a fuck about Soulsteel screaming in eternal agony. The Neverborn aren't causing that agony (aside from arguably being the cause of Soulsteel's existence), they aren't maintaining it, they aren't doing anything but suffering (and unconsciously shaping the Underworld).

The Neverborn are irrelevant to the souls forged in Soulsteel suffering, and - were they still living - probably wouldn't give a fuck that those souls are screaming in eternal agony.

They're not bad for Doomed Hometowns.
Anything that gets painted under the brush of Anathema by the Immaculate Faith is just as good for that.
 
It's substantially different, because A: my local library has Harry Potter, so I can read it without resorting to the options I mentioned, and B: I'm not generally arguing, I'm asking questions. When I do argue, I do it with stuff other people have presented in this thread.
A: "Refusing to read" covers "refusing to listen when told what it says" in my mind, and there have been plenty of people doing exactly that in this thread. You have been either ignoring them or deliberately misinterpreting what they've said.

B: You are asking questions that have either already been answered (just not in a way that you like), are so broad as to be more relevant to a general philosophy class than Exalted, or are just plain goddamn stupid. Also, almost all of them are phrased in such a way that they either read as an argument or as a small child asking an adult "why?" endlessly and in response to every answer.
 

The rightfully-despised Scroll of the Monk, more specifically the Obsidian Shards of Infinity style, generally considered the worst offender in a book of offences against game design. It's sometimes called out as, in fact, the worst Charm in that style.

Actually, I rather like it, in a strange sideways sort of way. It's awful for the game, of course, but it is perhaps the clearest codification of one of the most important principles of Exalted - "Whether you can do this is not in doubt. Whether you should is another matter."
 
That doesn't seem to be so much a plan as an intention. Even granting that 'conquer everything' constitutes a plan, fixing everything is rather more involved than simply being in charge - even assuming that everyone obeys the conquering tyrant!
Any tips?
... Then why are you here? You just expressed distaste for almost the entire gameline.
I expressed distaste for the rape, mind control rape, and bestiality. Sorry, I could have made myself clearer.
A: "Refusing to read" covers "refusing to listen when told what it says" in my mind, and there have been plenty of people doing exactly that in this thread. You have been either ignoring them or deliberately misinterpreting what they've said.
Sorry, it hasn't been deliberate.
Are... Are you seriously arguing that they're in too much pain for their agony to be relevant?
No, just that if the only input they get is constant, they probably won't keep caring for long.
Paradoxically, if it occasionally gets less painful, then yeah, it's utterly horrifying, a crime against everything, and Priority One to stop. But if it doesn't, they're not likely to become more traumatized.
 
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