The funny thing about those writeups, for me, is that they touched on a number of the points I'd bring up specifically to criticize the Solar Charmset. But the overall tone seems neutral-to-positive.

So I'm curious. Omicron, Kaiya: how do you feel about the state of affairs you're describing?
In a hypothetical world where the game had released with tools for NPC opposition to not instantly implode the moment a Solar looks at them kind of funny, I might respect it.

If your complex, multifaceted set of combat powers that interact with one another in intricate combos seeking to convey a specific theme about the way you fight is being used against paper mâché cutouts that fold instantly, you're just playing Solitaire, and I got tired of that when I was six years old.
 
In a hypothetical world where the game had released with tools for NPC opposition to not instantly implode the moment a Solar looks at them kind of funny, I might respect it.

If your complex, multifaceted set of combat powers that interact with one another in intricate combos seeking to convey a specific theme about the way you fight is being used against paper mâché cutouts that fold instantly, you're just playing Solitaire, and I got tired of that when I was six years old.
That would have been wonderful. Imagine, actual tools for serious NPC design alongside the core Solar mechanics! War gods who can keep up with a young Dawn Caste! Poor, poor Ahlat.
 
There's definitely a lot that would help Storytellers in actually running a game that was just not included in the book.

Though, I'm honestly baffled that they thought most characters would be at 2-3. I can understand the sidebar given new players and the like, but the system is so hostile to that sort of thing. I thought the inclusion of low entry requirement charms was so that secondary/tertiary focuses could be indulged to some degree.
 
Actually how do you all tend to balance your npcs?

I've been going through the npc section in the core book and I've got an understanding of the die pools for a quick npc but when it comes to charms and special abilities I'm not quite sure how many are too many or if I'll make a character who is supposed to be threatening end up made of styrofoam.
 
If you want the fight to last longer than a single round include battle groups and maybe trivial opponents.

Even with deebs I find it very hard to come up with enemies that are an actual challenge.
 
There's some commentary from the early dev team that what they actually expected was that most Solars would have abilities in the 2-3 range and maybe a single 5 for their area of special focus. Which is why a lot - but not all - abilities have bread-and-butter charms at that level of investment.

This is why the core book character creation section has a whole sidebar telling you that it is OK to take a character with a 5 and you shouldn't feel bad about it.

Now this is insane and the system is built to encourage way more specialization than that but there you go.

There's definitely a lot that would help Storytellers in actually running a game that was just not included in the book.

Though, I'm honestly baffled that they thought most characters would be at 2-3. I can understand the sidebar given new players and the like, but the system is so hostile to that sort of thing. I thought the inclusion of low entry requirement charms was so that secondary/tertiary focuses could be indulged to some degree.
It makes more sense when you place it in its historical context: Exalted was originally a White Wolf property connected to the World of Darkness franchise, and even at the time of Ex3's release shared significant overlap in their player bases. One thing about World of Darkness games is that originally, and to a lesser extent over time but still by 2016, they had a player culture that was extremely hostile to and condescending towards mechanical optimization. Having 5 dot in an ability was, in fact, grounds for the ST to reject your character sheet, and would be seen as some kind of a moral wrong, indicative of a powergamer who is going to deliberately sabotage your game.

Obviously the same isn't true of Exalted's player base, but Morke and Holden seem to have imported an expectation of the same behaviour from players, despite having at that point written for the line for years. It's very strange.
 
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Tbh if someone dropped a better npc kit for experienced Dragonblooded I'd be pretty happy. I mash it together pretty well but customizing charms for each chac is annoying as shit.

Sometimes I need a 'Fighty Dragonblooded, with artifact armor/weapon' on the fly in like ten seconds and the book ones aren't good enough for that.
 
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Actually how do you all tend to balance your npcs?

I've been going through the npc section in the core book and I've got an understanding of the die pools for a quick npc but when it comes to charms and special abilities I'm not quite sure how many are too many or if I'll make a character who is supposed to be threatening end up made of styrofoam.
12 to 16 Charms across all the Essence levels they have access to representing the effects that are needed to fulfill their role in play. More Charms than that becomes difficult to track, you want packages of 4 effects that work well together and dicepools that can meet the defense values, be they combat or social, of the players about 50% of the time for a peer opponent.
 
Tbh if someone dropped a better npc kit for experienced Dragonblooded I'd be pretty happy. I mash it together pretty well but customizing charms for each chac is annoying as shit.

Sometimes I need a 'Fighty Dragonblooded, with artifact armor/weapon' on the fly in like ten seconds and the book ones aren't good enough for that.
I could make a couple of DB QC templates and threadmark it, if people feel that would be helpful.
 
Honestly, I get it. That sort of attitude is very real in many games. So it makes sense to reassure newcomers.

I've seen some Shadowrun balance discussions where everyone seems to agree that, in order for the game to work properly, all players should handicap their own PCs.
For some games, it's valid, I'll agree.

Exalted needs it like a follow-up sidebar reassuring players that they're allowed to take Artifact weapons and armor instead of only kitting out your character with mundane gear.
 
From what I hear it's crept a lot of cap-breaking bonuses in to put the lie to that by now.
Given it's literally the first supplement for the game, which didn't have great balance to begin with, I don't know if Power Creep is even the right word.

Powersplosion, maybe? Power Avalanche? I'm sort of leaning toward Power Nuclear Armageddon.
 
Honestly, one of the things for both Players and NPC's that I think would be useful would be general 'statistics' ranges. Like, what levels of Soak/hardness/DV's, etc are good for certain levels of investment, and for certain 'types' of exalted. Especially since that would help with ok'ing the rather large amount of homebrew that inevitably needs to be made.
 
Name a dice trick in the Solar set that isn't worth it without a pool above ten.

One dice is on average 0.5 successes so an excellency needs to add 2 dice to add 1 success.
Rerolling a single number (ex 6s) adds 1 full success on average if a pool is at least 20 dice.
Rerolling a number forever (ex 6s until they disappear) adds 1 full success if a pool is at least 18 dice.
Rerolling 2 numbers (ex 5s and 6s) adds 1 success on average after a pool is at least 8 dice.

So you need at least 2 numbers being rerolled to equal 2m spent on an excellency.

Dice tricks are for breaking caps or for ignoring effects that target certain numbers, not efficiency.

 
I could make a couple of DB QC templates and threadmark it, if people feel that would be helpful.
Extremely, basic archetypes that could be useful is.

Melee DB
Brawl DB
Melee or Range DB using Ride
Ranged DB
Sorcerer
Immaculate Martial Artist

These are the ones that come up most often in games. Not asking for all of them of course, just shooting out my most 'common' ones.
 
This took a lot longer than I expected so I'm not doing any others tonight, and I'll probably need to make the next ones shorter/more condensed. But as an example, this is how I would 'fix' the Young Dynast template in Core:

Arrogant Young Master

This Dynast is fresh off secondary school and in the first year of his grand tour. He displays a patronizing curiosity for the foreign and exotic, and expects to get his way in all things. He is confident enough in his power to overlook minor slights as the foolishness of mortals who don't know who they're dealing with, but if pushed will delight in making an example of offenders. He is equivalent in power to a Dragon-Blooded player character at character creation, and weaker than most equivalent Celestials.

Aspect: Fire
Essence: 2; Willpower: 5; Join Battle: 11 dice
Personal: 13; Peripheral: 21 (max 31)
Health Levels: −0×2/−1×3/−2×2/−4×1/Incap.
Actions: Commanding Soldiers: 9 dice; Feats of Strength: 9 dice (may attempt Strength 4 feats); Read Intentions: 8 dice; Resist Poison/Disease: 8 dice; Senses: 11 dice; Social Influence: 11 dice.
Appearance 4, Resolve 5, Guile 4

Combat
Attack (Red Jade Daiklave): 14 dice (Damage 16L/5)
Attack (Grapple): 9 dice (8 dice to control)
Combat Movement: 11 dice
Evasion: 2; Parry: 7
Soak/Hardness: 12/7 (Red Jade Lamellar)

Intimacies
Defining Principle: I am a scion of the Realm, the greatest and only civilization in the world.
Defining Tie: My House (Loyalty)
Major Principle: I am owed respect and obedience by my lessers.
Minor Principle: It is my religious duty to be magnanimous to mortals and show them rightful actions.

Escort
This Dynast is accompanied on his grand tour by a Size 2 battle group of battle-ready troops (Exalted, p.496) and a single lieutenant with the traits of an elite bodyguard (p.497). Their purpose is as much logistical as it is defensive, ensuring the Dynast is kept fed, lodged, and entertained.

Anima
At bonfire, the Dynast's anima inflicts 3 die of withering damage to characters without Hardness in close range. In Crash, this is decisive. As a reminder, Crash also negates Hardness.

Excellency
Bonus Dice: A Dragon-Blood can add +3 dice for 3m to any dice pool in which he has 6+ dice, and +6 dice for 6m to any dice pool in which he has 11+ dice.
Static Values: A Dragon-Blood can increase static values for two motes per +1 bonus, up to +2 for static values 4+ and up to +3 for static values 6+.

Offensive Charms

Stoking Bonfire Style (-): When the Dynast adds bonus dice to an attack roll or his Parry, success discounts further bonus dice by 1m total. Cumulative until missing an attack or failing to Parry.

Crimson Fang Bite (3m, 1wp; Supplemental; Dual; Instant): Add +4 to the raw damage of a withering attack or double 10s on a decisive damage roll.

Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite (4m, 1i; Supplemental; Withering-only, Perilous): Add +4 to the Overwhelming value of a withering attack.

Crossfire Flash (5m; Supplemental; Uniform; Instant): During a clash attack, reroll 2 non-1 failed dice. Rerolled 10s strip successes from the opponent's roll.

Strength of Stone Technique (5m; Simple; One scene): The Dynast adds +1 to his withering damage rolls, Feats of Strength rolls, and to the bonus damage of Crimson Fang Bite.

Defensive Charms

Blinding Spark Distraction (1m, 1i; Reflexive; Uniform, Perilous; Instant): When successfully blocking an attack or winning a clash from close range, opponent must succeed on a (Stamina + Resistance) roll at a difficulty of (2 + successes she missed by) or be blinded until the end of his next turn, suffering a -3 penalty to all actions.

Fearsome Dragon Presence (5m; Reflexive; Perilous; One tick): All attack rolls, rushes, and social influence rolls against the Dynast suffer a -2 penalty unless the affected character spends one Willpower.

Graceful Flowing Defense (2m, 1i; Reflexive; Perilous, Uniform; Instant): Ignore a point of penalty to Parry.

Tide-and-Rock Endurance (6m; Reflexive; Withering-only; Instant): Add +4 soak against a withering attack, plus an additional +1 soak for every 1 on the attack roll.

Flame Warden Stance (3m, 2i; Simple; Perilous; One scene): The Dynast takes a defend other action. It is maintained for the rest of the scene or until his charge moves out of close range. Each time the Dynast parries an attack against his charge, he adds +1 die to his next attack roll, and may spend 4m to respond with a decisive counterattack. Her ward may reflexively attempt a distract gambit before this counterattack.

Mobility Charms

Bellows-Pumping Stride (3m; Supplemental; Instant): Enhance a rush. Roll an additional non-Charm die for every 1 on opponent's opposing roll.

Social Charms

Friend-to-All-Nations Attitude (-): After an hour being exposed to a particular group or culture, the Dynast adds +1 to his Read Intentions and Social Influence rolls against members of that group, and to his Guile against them. This can increase his dice cap.

Loyalty-Reading Meditation (4m; Supplemental; Instant): Intimacies based on emotion penalize Guile against a Read Intention action as they would Resolve. For +1m, 1wp, he adds non-Charm dice equal to the difference between his Appearance and the target's unmodified Guile.

Eternally Argumentative Flame (3m; Reflexive; One turn): Flurry a Social Influence actions with any combat action, waiving flurry penalties.

Unbearable Taunt Technique (2m; Simple; Instant): Make a Social Influence roll against a single character's Resolve. On a success, the target is filled with anger and must react with hostility. He must insult, threaten, or even outright attack the Dynast. In combat, a target must pay one Willpower, two Initiative to do anything other than attack him.

Warfare Charms

Roaring Dragon Officer (5m; Reflexive; Perilous; One turn): The Dynast flurries a command action with a non-attack action, rolling an additional non-Charm die for every 10 on her roll. The battle group adds the same bonus to Willpower rolls to avoid being routed this turn.


Strategy

The Arrogant Young Master is as his name suggests. He will treat any opponent who does not display evidence of being Anathema as beneath him, ordering his guards to stand back and let him deal with them alone. He will not use Charms which cost Willpower nor spend more than 6m per action until an enemy successfully crashes him or inflicts decisive damage.

If he has reason to believe his opponent is superior to him, such as being outnumbered or facing an Anathema, the Dynast will order his escort into battle. He uses Flame Warden Stance and Unbearable Taunt Technique to ward attacks away from his Elite Bodyguard lieutenant while she gives command actions to their troops. Against a Solar or Lunar flaring at bonfire anima, he will attempt to withdraw.

The Arrogant Young Master is prone to using Unbearable Taunt Technique to goad characters into insulting him, providing him an excuse to strike them as punishment for this 'offense.'
 
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I've done a bit more thinking about it, and there's kind of a second piece to the 'balancing opposition' puzzle. The first is of course the runaway strength of Player Characters in this game. PCs built according to the incentives in character creation will be strong, and they will run roughshod over a lot of printed NPCs. A fight where the ST is lowballing might be a total anticlimax, where opposition that feels like it should be impressive or at least dramatic and enjoyable to fight gets low-diffed. You might bill a given NPC or boss as being a dangerous threat, and they fail to live up to that in practice. These are the risks of accidentally undertuning opposition.

But the second problem is the way that battles and other such conflicts resolve in Exalted Third Edition are designed points players towards all-or-nothing battles where life is on the line. You fight your enemies until they are all incapacitated, or you are. Barring the use of houserules or optional rules like the ones on pg.73 of Crucible of Legend, being incapacitated by lethal damage means you are either dead or dying, and it's a matter of Storyteller fiat what happens to your character afterwards. This means that, generally, people will NEVER want their characters incapacitated, and Storytellers plan around that. The risk of accidentally overtuning opposition is the death of all the PCs and the end of the chronicle. That's generally not a good outcome.

A potential solution to this is something that's been proposed many times before: a way to take death off the table and establish alternative stakes for any given conflict. Incapacitation can remain meaningful, and something players will want to avoid, without it meaning their characters die. In a situation like that there would be a lot less pressure on Storytellers to carefully tune their opposition to an ideal Goldilocks Zone where fights are just challenging enough to thrill the players without being so challenging that there's a serious risk of a total party wipe. You can take more risks with overtuning your opposition if the fight losing means that, say, the Player Characters have to flee, or lose an artifact/the approval of their citizens/their aura, etc.

I've mostly thought about this in the context of Exalted Essence, where its alternative incapacitation rules make it much less of a risky gamble to build powerful antags and throw them at your players. You'd have to change... several things about how 3e does things to make it work well, but the result would be interesting. More fights with Anys Syn, more fights where Storytellers can pull out insane antags from Hundred Devils or Adversaries. More fights where high-essence charms or evocations are in play, because if they turn out to be way stronger than what a team of Exalt Player Characters can handle, it's not the end of the world.
 
The weirdest thing about the corebook's Young Dynast QC is that it was written without the fucky Essence progression that Dragon-Blooded ended up with in WFHW, so while it's probably supposed to be read like the one above -- a Dragon-Blood in his 20s recently graduated, fucking around the Threshold doing colonial tourism -- with the later context, it being Essence 1 and having extremely small pools always puts me in mind of like, "oh, a thirteen year old student", which is a pretty common read.

I have had people try to rationalise this to me as being secretly on purpose, as opposed to just assumptions (and developers) having changed between the corebook and WFHW, but that's always felt like a stretch to me.
 
[
Anyone have recommendations for good Exalted stories? I have read @Gazetteer's stuff and Chainbreaker (like three times).

Mare Internum is pretty damn good. If I was feeling hyperbolic, I might even say "the only good one", but I haven't read enough of these to make that sort of judgment.

Of the official stuff, The Silence of Our Ancestors punches way above its weight class - it's genuinely enjoyable, not just "oh I guess it's fine for what it is", which is generally the high watermark for games literature. Speaking of which, the Sidereal novella whose title I have completely forgotten by now, on the other hand, is a very good example of the latter. Fun read, completely forgettable, but will keep you engrossed as you read even if you won't even recall the title afterwards.
 
But the second problem is the way that battles and other such conflicts resolve in Exalted Third Edition are designed points players towards all-or-nothing battles where life is on the line. You fight your enemies until they are all incapacitated, or you are. Barring the use of houserules or optional rules like the ones on pg.73 of Crucible of Legend, being incapacitated by lethal damage means you are either dead or dying, and it's a matter of Storyteller fiat what happens to your character afterwards. This means that, generally, people will NEVER want their characters incapacitated, and Storytellers plan around that. The risk of accidentally overtuning opposition is the death of all the PCs and the end of the chronicle. That's generally not a good outcome.

Maybe there should be some panic-button Charms that can bail you out in the event of catastrophe. Maybe even a keyword for such Charms, so that it's convenient to give each player one for free and there can be some restrictions on trying to use a whole bunch of different ones. Maybe they're free, but you only get one per story.

Because Exalted is a setting where people are legitimately trying to kill each other, and often succeeding. But it's also a setting with a huge variety of phenomenal cosmic powers that can save your life. Would be cool if the Resistance guy had a Charm for clinging to life even after the Wyld Hunt "makes sure" he's dead by cutting out his heart, while the Athletics girl was almost infallible at fleeing in a panic and the Socialize guy was just really, really, really good at begging for mercy.
 
Maybe there should be some panic-button Charms that can bail you out in the event of catastrophe. Maybe even a keyword for such Charms, so that it's convenient to give each player one for free and there can be some restrictions on trying to use a whole bunch of different ones. Maybe they're free, but you only get one per story.

Because Exalted is a setting where people are legitimately trying to kill each other, and often succeeding. But it's also a setting with a huge variety of phenomenal cosmic powers that can save your life. Would be cool if the Resistance guy had a Charm for clinging to life even after the Wyld Hunt "makes sure" he's dead by cutting out his heart, while the Athletics girl was almost infallible at fleeing in a panic and the Socialize guy was just really, really, really good at begging for mercy.

I think it would be better to have it be a conceit of the game rather than a charm purchase, otherwise it would just be a charm tax. Something along the lines of Essence's Taken Out of a Fight concept. Maybe based on your highest rated ability or the type of charm you have the most of?
 
There are already charms that do that, which are representative of supernatural resilience or trickery. Solar Craft famously has a Doombot charm, and high Essence Lunars can get one that lets them shed a shape as a corpse and survive something lethal.

I'm not really a fan of the way Essence does this and I don't feel like it's necessary to create a core mechanical conceit where death is only a risk when players proactively opt in by default.
 
The Doombot Charm is terrible, unfortunately. Even if you love the idea, the implementation is very bad in just about every possible way. And in any case putting that stuff at high Essence defeats the point.

Anyway, the Charm tax issue is why I suggested giving every PC one for free.

I think that, given the nature of the setting and the themes of the game, Exalted combat should by default be high-stakes and brutal. High lethality, except your magic lets you escape it on rare occasion, feels pretty different from Fate-style low lethality. I like Fate - I've played a ton of it - but it's not what I want from Exalted.
 
There are already charms that do that, which are representative of supernatural resilience or trickery. Solar Craft famously has a Doombot charm, and high Essence Lunars can get one that lets them shed a shape as a corpse and survive something lethal.

I instantly thought of Avoidance (Kata) which is quite literally "I was never here".

The Doombot Charm is terrible, unfortunately. Even if you love the idea, the implementation is very bad in just about every possible way. And in any case putting that stuff at high Essence defeats the point.

Anyway, the Charm tax issue is why I suggested giving every PC one for free.

I think that, given the nature of the setting and the themes of the game, Exalted combat should by default be high-stakes and brutal. High lethality, except your magic lets you escape it on rare occasion, feels pretty different from Fate-style low lethality. I like Fate - I've played a ton of it - but it's not what I want from Exalted.

The problem with putting high stakes brutal combat into Exalted is that your PCs are by default going to be so monumentally powerful that almost everything is going to be a cakewalk.

Separate but related: The problem with putting in an avoidance ability like that is that, at least in my experience, you're not going to have more than two or three combat encounters per story. Because 3e combat is an absolute slog and a pain in the ass to design for. Though that might be because I mainly do PBP games over Discord nowadays and suck at STing in general.

Like, in theory, Exalted feels like a game where you're supposed to mainly deal with political intrigue and intellectual pursuits, with the occasional outpouring of violence that comes either from living in a dangerous fantasy world (ie a horde of hobgoblins) or because negotiations broke down somewhere (ie the wedding you intended to forge an alliance is attacked by assassins). Battle seems like it's meant to be a crescendo built up to.

But Exalted in practice splits itself pretty well between the combat, social, and exploration pillars. With even a slight investment in any combat skill end up so powerful from the outset that the only way to make a challenging encounter is to drop a few Fair Folk Cataphracti and have them all do that army-summoning ability they have and getting a Size 5.

Which sounds like a negative when I put it that way, but what I'm getting at is that this isn't the kind of game Exalted is or even wants to be. It's very much a heroic fantasy game. You're playing the few powerful exceptional people in a world of monsters and mayhem, your deeds even at the most basic level are legendary.

Not saying you're wrong for playing high lethality Exalted but that seems more like a 'your table' thing than a 'the game' thing =/
 
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