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Attempting to Survive the Apocalypse: Dimensional Dislocation

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Not to mention also being the only ones with the level of infrastructure needed to save any meaningful percent of their population.

Literally half the planet's population is already dead. And its only about to start rolling over Africa.

Even the EU, Russia, and NA are unlikely to look anything like they are now. We're set up to save... I don't know actually. 10% of our population? And the EU is the best off in terms of population to infrastructure output ratio I believe?

I honestly have no clue.
 
aceraptor said:
So anyways folks, if we pick the ARL sale option then we'll need to do whatever we can to bring the public confidence back up since it'll knock us back down to 30/100 public confidence and background events can easily knock that down.
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Putting a die or two on Public Propaganda ought to help on that front.

Rukia said:
[] Public Propaganda
While it's not explicitly your role, you could certainly attempt to help public opinion along with a bit from the sidelines.
(Roll 1d100 per dice to attempt to regain Public Confidence. DC 25/50/75/90)
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aceraptor said:
Problem is right now the only other nations with resources and talent worth working with is USA and Russia. Basically all of Asia is more or less gone. China is dead, Japan is dead, India is dead. Australia is kaput. Africa's most developed nations are going to be dead or dying sooner rather than later. South America is in USA's sphere more or less but their big hitter, Brazil, is going to be among the first nation to die to collapse fluid spread.
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Well...the best I can think of is to save the closest african countries, offer help to the smaller territories of Latin America (I'm not saying block Brazil but.....eh...) and have them migrate to Northern America, possibly sending help by means of technology overseas?

And hey, what about Canada?
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ShadowAngelBeta said:
Even the EU, Russia, and NA are unlikely to look anything like they are now. We're set up to save... I don't know actually. 10% of our population? And the EU is the best off in terms of population to infrastructure output ratio I believe?

I honestly have no clue.
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I mean if we focus harder on production and expansion, I guess we could maybe save 15? 20 if we're optimistic? I'm thinking hte EU's only like that because of the fact it has the Foundation (though not for long) and it's likely the other countries will either figure out some counterforce or look to us for help, as we haven't been as affected as the others.)
 
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aceraptor said:
China is dead, Japan is dead, India is dead.
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Speaking of Japan, I thought they were supposed to be one of the safer ones/should be like the US where they're only starting to see contamination.

As far as Russia goes, I imagine that whatever schematics we give them will result in us seeing a cheaper, mass produced version quickly spreading throughout their territory.
 
BlessedYetDamned said:
Speaking of Japan, I thought they were supposed to be one of the safer ones/should be like the US where they're only starting to see contamination.
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Persica isn't too surprised that her hurried napkin math was wrong.

BlessedYetDamned said:
As far as Russia goes, I imagine that whatever schematics we give them will result in us seeing a cheaper, mass produced version quickly spreading throughout their territory.
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Part of the deal for selling something to them is the understanding that they won't just copy the design and make it locally, unless it is specifically licensed there.
How much you trust them to hold up their end of the bargain is entirely on you.
 
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Rukia said:
Part of the deal for selling something to them is the understanding that they won't just copy the design and make it locally, unless it is specifically licensed there.
How much you trust them to hold up their end of the bargain is entirely on you.
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From this, we can tell that we don't have to be overly wary of Russia. I mean of course what we're doing is against the council, but not that much more than the other things we've done.

aceraptor said:
It'll hurt
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How so? It brings positive benefits that are a tad more important than other things it could be used for, even if it's improving research. We don't want the people staging a coup de ta, now do we?
 
Nigerian Duck said:
How so? It brings positive benefits that are a tad more important than other things it could be used for, even if it's improving research. We don't want the people staging a coup de ta, now do we?
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Partly because using dice on propaganda means less Service Dice on increasing the number of dice for our various sections since it'll be less dice on Automation Intensification. With that said:

[X] Plan Net Neutral, Safety and Data
-[X] Public
--[X] Public Data Sharing (+1 Public Leverage)
--[X] IDC Visor Licence (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
--[X] IDDS Technology Sales (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
--[X] Open Diplomatic Channels (+1 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage -5 Political Support +5 Public Confidence)
--[X] ALR-50 Sales (+3 Public Leverage +2 Private Leverage +50 Resources -10 Political Support -10 Public Support) (Substantial Increase in Russian Preparation)
--[X] Extensive ELID Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
--[X] Extensive IDC Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
--[X] IDC Border Treaties (-1 Public Leverage)
--[X] CFR Shelter Experience (-4 Public Leverage -2 Private Leverage +8 Incremental Increase per Quarter -5 Public Confidence)
--[X] CFR Data Sharing (-1 Public Leverage)
-[X] Private
--[X] Operational Data Sharing (+1 Private Leverage)
--[X] The American Question (+1 Private Leverage 1 Public Leverage)
--[X] Regional Responsibility (-1 Private Leverage)
--[X] Final Stage ELID (-2 Private Leverage)

Net Public Leverage: 0
Net Private Leverage: +2
Net Political Support: -5
Net Resources: +100
Net Public Confidence: -10

Since there's no moratorium, I'll start voting.
 
Rukia said:
Part of the deal for selling something to them is the understanding that they won't just copy the design and make it locally, unless it is specifically licensed there.
How much you trust them to hold up their end of the bargain is entirely on you.
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I mean I imagine they'll keep their end of the deal at first, but as things grow more and more grim I wouldn't be surprised to see knockoffs of our design to start showing up.

I guess it's a matter of weighing the benefits of maintaining a monopoly. Is it worth the cost in goodwill? The Russians won't just stop wanting them, so I imagine that if push comes to shove they'll just try and take them the hard way so we might find ourselves having to content with Russian spies and the like trying to steal the design from us.

On the other hand we'll have all the benefits that a monopoly entails...

On the other we won't benefit from the extra resources and goodwill so long as the Russians can afford them and consider it worth the cost...

On the other hand treason...

Mmm... we must know who the current (or at least recently current) leader is, right? Do we know anything about him/her? I imagine we must, right?
 
[X] Plan Net Neutral, Safety and Data

Hopefully after we've propagated our robots all over and further developed them and AI down the line, we can do a Palpatine level hack one day and just assume direct control over all Cornerstone robots.
 
Nigerian Duck said:
From this, we can tell that we don't have to be overly wary of Russia. I mean of course what we're doing is against the council, but not that much more than the other things we've done.
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I'm partially in agreement with you that we don't need to be overly wary of Russia... but only in the short-term. There are two competing aspects that need to be considered here. First is the survival of as much of the Human Race as is possible. Specifically the EU's population because that's where we're at. The second is ensuring that once the big scarcity hits and people are starved of resources, that the Union's remnant does not fall to other Human actors who are equally starved of resources and would very much like to take our stuff to save themselves.

When people get desperate, they will fight for survival if the alternative is death or something worse than death. This is why selling military hardware really does need to be thought through carefully. While Prowlers may be optimized against IDC's, they'll still be quite effective against infantry. It's no good if the Foundation fails at the last step of it's plan to save Humanity. So do think this through before you vote for selling Prowlers.
 
Decim said:
I'm partially in agreement with you that we don't need to be overly wary of Russia... but only in the short-term. There are two competing aspects that need to be considered here. First is the survival of as much of the Human Race as is possible. Specifically the EU's population because that's where we're at. The second is ensuring that once the big scarcity hits and people are starved of resources, that the Union's remnant does not fall to other Human actors who are equally starved of resources and would very much like to take our stuff to save themselves.

When people get desperate, they will fight for survival if the alternative is death or something worse than death. This is why selling military hardware really does need to be thought through carefully. While Prowlers may be optimized against IDC's, they'll still be quite effective against infantry. It's no good if the Foundation fails at the last step of it's plan to save Humanity. So do think this through before you vote for selling Prowlers.
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Yeah, in Girls Frontline (where Collapse Fluid, ELIDs and our AI tech is taken wholesale/inspired from) after the Collapse Fluid apocalypse, WW3 happened over remaining viable livable lands because nations were that desperate.
 
...Dang that game sounds messed up, but probably accurate in real life.

Decim said:
I'm partially in agreement with you that we don't need to be overly wary of Russia... but only in the short-term. There are two competing aspects that need to be considered here. First is the survival of as much of the Human Race as is possible. Specifically the EU's population because that's where we're at. The second is ensuring that once the big scarcity hits and people are starved of resources, that the Union's remnant does not fall to other Human actors who are equally starved of resources and would very much like to take our stuff to save themselves.

When people get desperate, they will fight for survival if the alternative is death or something worse than death. This is why selling military hardware really does need to be thought through carefully. While Prowlers may be optimized against IDC's, they'll still be quite effective against infantry. It's no good if the Foundation fails at the last step of it's plan to save Humanity. So do think this through before you vote for selling Prowlers.
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That is a good thing to consider, but considering our edge in technology and our newly developed "Stalkers" we'd outpower them, is that not so? And without the countermeasures put in place by the Foundation their manpower, political power (or semblance of whatever politics will be if the land is scourged), and cohesiveness as a whole won't last at all. And...what are Human actors? Were you alluding to some game terminology from GL?
 
Compared to Net Neutral, this plan gives up CFR Data Sharing for IDC Tracking Methods, as well as also including Unit Exchange. Given the rather dismal performance of the army so far against IDCs, any benefit whatsoever we can provide to them will be essential for keeping up public confidence. Unit Exchange also allows us to cooperate with our Russian counterparts in joint operations better, which will greatly help in the case of a incident happening on the border as well as giving our troops better training in anti-IDC tactics that the Russians already have.

[X] Plan Clandestine Cooperation & More Tracking
-[X] Public
--[X] Public Data Sharing (+1 Public Leverage)
--[X] IDC Visor Licence (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
--[X] IDDS Technology Sales (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
--[X] ALR-50 Sales (+3 Public Leverage +2 Private Leverage +50 Resources -10 Political Support -10 Public Confidence) (Substantial Increase in Russian Preparation)
--[X] Open Diplomatic Channels (+1 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage -5 Political Support +5 Public Confidence)
--[X] Extensive ELID Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
--[X] Extensive IDC Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
--[X] IDC Border Treaties (-1 Public Leverage)
--[X] IDC Tracking Methods (-1 Public Leverage -25 Resources +5 Political Support)
--[X] CFR Shelter Experience (-4 Public Leverage -2 Private Leverage +8 Incremental Increase per Quarter -5 Public Confidence)
-[X] Private
--[X] Operational Data Sharing (+1 Private Leverage)
--[X] The American Question (+1 Private Leverage 1 Public Leverage)
--[X] Regional Responsibility (-1 Private Leverage)
--[X] Unit Exchange (-1 Private Leverage)
--[X] Final Stage ELID (-2 Private Leverage)

Net Public: 0
Net Private: 1
Net Political Support: 0
Net Resources: +75
Net Public Confidence: -10
 
One of the reasons why I want CFR data is if we can open up contact with our American counterpart we can use it as one of the bargaining chips as the Americans would be interested in getting a more complete picture of how the CFR is spreading.
 
Worried about selling the ALR-50.

No matter how you go about it it'll likely result in increased oversight from our military overlords - whether it be because they know/suspect us, or that they think/worry that Russian spies have infiltrated our ranks.
 
BlessedYetDamned said:
Worried about selling the ALR-50.

No matter how you go about it it'll likely result in increased oversight from our military overlords - whether it be because they know/suspect us, or that they think/worry that Russian spies have infiltrated our ranks.
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Which is why my plan does not take unit exchange and why we should push out the 51 ASAP.

We can reason with the military that the 50 is already outdated and we are merely trading a soon-to-be outdated tech with the Russians to obtain valuable information on ELIDs and IDCs
 
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ShadowAngelBeta said:
We're set up to save... I don't know actually. 10% of our population? And the EU is the best off in terms of population to infrastructure output ratio I believe?
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Nigerian Duck said:
I mean if we focus harder on production and expansion, I guess we could maybe save 15? 20 if we're optimistic? I'm thinking hte EU's only like that because of the fact it has the Foundation (though not for long) and it's likely the other countries will either figure out some counterforce or look to us for help, as we haven't been as affected as the others.)
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Well…

From an early post:
Rukia said:
"The vast majority of the population is going to die." You let the words settle in. "It's not possible to construct the quantity of specialised housing required to save everyone, let alone the sealed agriculture to sustain them. If you give me a few days I can get back to you with more accurate figures, but for now the best I can say is 10 million people."
-
Two point two percent.
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And note that those estimates were from when we expected to have several years before it was even close to reaching Europe.

At current rate of expansion (judging from the maps) the main cloud will start hitting the edge of Europe in 6-9 months. Perhaps a year. And about another year before it covers everything.
The Kipi zone is of course already spreading over EU territory.

As to how well we are currently doing:
Economic Factors
(Each unit provides for 10,000 people. 1 Sealed Housing keeps 10,000. 1 Sealed Agriculture feeds 10,000)
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Rukia said:
Economic Factors
Decontaminated Water: 68 [+35 (+15)]
Sealed Industry: 68 [+35 (+15)]
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680,000. 2 thirds of a million.

We get +1 increment from current automation. Assuming no net changes (our upgrades balance the escalating economic and infrastructure collapse) the numbers will look like this:
Q3 2026: 118.
Q4 2026: 184.
Q1 2027: 267.
Q2 2027: 368.
Q3 2027: 488.
Q4 2027: 628.
Q1 2028: 789.
Q2 2028: 972.

Optimistically we might actually succeed in meeting our initial estimate of 10,000,000 people. A whole 2% of the EU population.


[X] Plan Net Neutral, Safety and Data
 
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Oh! That's another reason to take CFR data. It'll give us a much better idea on how fast CFR will reach Europe and how long we have left.
 
aceraptor said:
Which is why my plan does not take unit exchange and why we should push out the 51 ASAP.

We can reason with the military that the 50 is already outdated and we are merely trading a soon-to-be outdated tech with the Russians to obtain valuable information on ELIDs and IDCs
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I mean our military probably has its own spies.

Just cause we don't take unit exchange doesn't mean they will be any less likely to find out.

And the Military won't be happy either way, because we'll have gone behind their backs/against their orders no matter the outcome.
 
Angelform said:
As to how well we are currently doing:
680,000. Third of a million.

We get +1 increment from current automation. Assuming no net changes (our upgrades balance the escalating economic and infrastructure collapse) the numbers will look like this:
Q3 2026: 118.
Q4 2026: 184.
Q1 2027: 267.
Q2 2027: 368.
Q3 2027: 488.
Q4 2027: 628.
Q1 2028: 789.
Q2 2028: 972.

Optimistically we might actually succeed in meeting our initial estimate of 10,000,000 people. A whole 2% of the EU population.


[] Plan Net Neutral, Safety and Data
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That's part of why the CFR Shelter Experience is so costly. That option alone will change the 15+ increment to 23+, that's an extra 80k people saved every quarter.

Simply developing 51 will add another 3+ to that. We really need to boost the number of Industrial dices ASAP to push out 51 production.
 
Actually after considering the use of CFR Data Sharing, I've dropped Border Treaties for it. The private options of Regional Responsibility and Unit Exchange should mean that while we won't be openly cooperating on cross-border IDC incursions, we can do so covertly.

[X] Plan Clandestine Cooperation & More Tracking
-[X] Public
--[X] Public Data Sharing (+1 Public Leverage)
--[X] IDC Visor Licence (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
--[X] IDDS Technology Sales (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
--[X] ALR-50 Sales (+3 Public Leverage +2 Private Leverage +50 Resources -10 Political Support -10 Public Confidence) (Substantial Increase in Russian Preparation)
--[X] Open Diplomatic Channels (+1 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage -5 Political Support +5 Public Confidence)
--[X] Extensive ELID Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
--[X] Extensive IDC Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
--[X] CFR Data Sharing (-1 Public Leverage)
--[X] IDC Tracking Methods (-1 Public Leverage -25 Resources +5 Political Support)
--[X] CFR Shelter Experience (-4 Public Leverage -2 Private Leverage +8 Incremental Increase per Quarter -5 Public Confidence)
-[X] Private
--[X] Operational Data Sharing (+1 Private Leverage)
--[X] The American Question (+1 Private Leverage 1 Public Leverage)
--[X] Regional Responsibility (-1 Private Leverage)
--[X] Unit Exchange (-1 Private Leverage)
--[X] Final Stage ELID (-2 Private Leverage)

Net Public: 0
Net Private: 1
Net Political Support: 0
Net Resources: +75
Net Public Confidence: -10
 
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