Shepard Quest Mk VII, Age of Revy (ME/MCU)

salanesh said:

Aren't Husks previously human? They need a large source of humans in order to make lots of husks. They can make a lot of Cannibals though from Batarians.

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Oh. I though that 'Husks' were the generic term for Reaper Zombie Thralls who were converted thanks to the...Dragons Teeth(?). Thanks for correcting me.

[X] [PIA] Proposed Plan ParSec Leads The Way
[X] [PIRA] Proposed Plan Batteries and Mind Shields
[X] [ST] Plan Family, Drells, and Liara
[X] [PSD] Proposed Plan Safe Expansion

[ ] Improved Arcologies: When a civilizations advance far enough Arcologies are designed as a necessity for many people. After all after a point a planet can only sustain so many people before running into issue unless you have something in mind to handle them. Your goal is to improve upon the idea to take into account all your most recent technological innovations from power generation to modular tech to vastly improved materials. Your Arcology designs will not only be far more efficient in every category than anything else available but will also be as comfortable for the residents living there, self sufficient and will be designed for potential attacks as well.





ok what do you guys think? I have the Legionary V1 with paragon prices above as comparison.

Looking at the leading plan sthe biggest issue I have is that mind shields are getting so much focus considering that realistically they aren't going to be used because there is absolutely no reason for Revy to have our people wearing them all the time or even any amount of time. We have no IC idea about something like indoctrination so Revy doesn't have IC reason to be paranoid enough to even start deploying them.

On top of that just because the Batarian's are getting help with their tech doesn't mean that their tech has any indoctrination effect since in canon only specific Reaper tech had it and otherwise I imagine that we would have outright heard about people being indoctrinated since it's more than likely that there are people in Citadel space researching it. So until we have an IC reason it's honestly just a waste and unlikely to be relevant for a long while.

Rather we have Mordin work on things like the Gene Treatments for say the Turians since we are at war and it would not only be a boost to their forces but our relations as well.

@UberJJK I'd suggest editing the plan to include the Centurion armor. Both for our forces and a few dozen elite ones for the SA to give their own unique forces which would likely include the N7 including Anderson.

Time for Hive Cities!

Red Bovine said:

@UberJJK I'd suggest editing the plan to include the Centurion armor. Both for our forces and a few dozen elite ones for the SA to give their own unique forces which would likely include the N7 including Anderson.

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Going from Legionaries to Centurions results in:

• 8,308 Paragon Legionaries (-5.8156 Billion + 24,924.00 Production)
• 9,000 Mass Produced Centurions (-22.5 Billion + 90,000 Production)
• 9,000 Elite Centurions (-58.5 Billion + 135,000 Production)

Considering we only have 43,014.59 Production spare we are actually limited to just 6,793 MP Centurions or 4,529 Centurions. So the question is are 2 MP Centurions equal/better then 3 Paragon Legionaries? Similarly is one Centurion equal/superior to 2 Paragon Legionaries?


That said I do believe we don't have to worry about the Alliance asking for Centurions. We don't know how much HK is selling the original Legionaries for but considering we get 260,000cr from them I doubt the price is even as high as 500,000cr. For comparison we'd sell Paragon Legionaries (which notably are already upgraded over what the Alliance is getting) for at least 1,480,000cr or three times the price. MP Centurions meanwhile are even more expensive with a minimum price of 5,100,000cr and Centurions are crazy expensive at 10,400,000cr.

To put that another way for the price of 1 Centurion the Alliance could buy 2 MP Centurions, 7 Paragon Legionaries, or ~20 HK Legionaries. A couple Spec-Ops branches (like N7) might be willing to shill out that kind of money but over 10mil per soldier is a big ask even for Spec-Ops.

Hmmm we might price out our clients even with the new features of the suits. Maybe sell an even more stripped down version and sell auxillary upgrade kits for ballers?

Something worth mentioning is our ability to sell Centurions depends heavily upon how exactly the contract we signed with HK is worded. Because in 2171-Q3 we agreed:

I've already spoken to the chairman of the board, and given the circumstances, and the incredible quality, we are prepared to offer you three hundred million credits for the exclusive rights to produce the Legionary for the next five years, all payed upfront.

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Yeah we got a better pay deal in the next update but it was still for exclusive rights to the Legionary. Arguably this deal extends not to just 2176-Q3 (5qtrs away) but 2177-Q1 (7qtrs away) since it wasn't until 2172-Q1 that we made our first delivery of Arc Reactors and thus their production of Legionaries began.

So unless we are willing to either license the design out to HK or the Systems Alliance is willing to step in using their wartime powers (to either compell us to license the design or compell HK to suspend the exclusivity) we can't actually provide the Alliance with Centurions.


Technically you could argue that Centurions aren't Legionaries but I imagine the exclusivity contract includes a general non-compete for that market like we have with CHA:

[]Agree to Research Partnership (Lose 1 research die for 4 turns, gain Basic Aerospace Tech immediately. Gain portion of profit of all fighter sales. Non-compete clause for 5 years.)

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At the moment I'm wondering how our costs break down and where there are kinks or bottlenecks in our supply chains that could be eased in a way that could see reduced costs either letting us turn a higher over all profit per unit or reduce sales prices to further dominate choice markets for further expansion.

Off the top of my head there are these possible places where there might be problems causing costs or material losses;

1. Raw materials and rare earths
   1. Asteroid Mining will fix this but might cause issues with Point 3 if schedules aren't carefully managed or become disrupted.
   2. Failed Quality assurances
2. Purchased Components
   1. The more product we turn out the more likely there will be supply issues from simple availablity
   2. Potential issues with sellers seeing a seller's market if demand constantly increases
   3. Components could be built in house but would use capacity and increase issues with Point 1 and 3
3. Materials Transport
   1. Shipping delays or unavailability due to interdiction (including customs inspections and piracy), carrier maintanence or trans-shiping issues (Loading and unloading times and again Customs issues)
4. Alloys and synthisised materials manufacture
   1. Failure rate due to impurities and incredibly fine tolerances.
      1. Lots of potential for research here to have great knock on effects reducing strains at Points 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 due to reduced waste in time and materials and well within Revy and Paragon's wheel house
         1. Sample Research Ideas: Better sensors, Better Conditions Analysis VI, Better/Alternative processes, Facilities in unusual conditions remote operated, Better Recycling/Recovery Processes
   2. Specialised Training or Education required.
      1. Provide scholarships for promising candidates on condition of accepting a 5 year contract of employment.
      2. Create a centralised specialised (and secure) training, retraining and updated training facility for employees new and old.
5. Component manufacture
   1. As with 4.1
      1. As with 4.1.1
         1. As with 4.1.1.1
   2. Specialised Training or Education required.
      1. Provide scholarships for promising candidates on condition of accepting a 5 year contract of employment.
      2. Create a centralised specialised (and secure) training, retraining and updated training facility for employees new and old.
6. Construction Phase
   1. As with 4.1
      1. As with 4.1.1
         1. As with 4.1.1.1
   2. Specialised Training or Education required.
      1. Provide scholarships for promising candidates on condition of accepting a 5 year contract of employment.
      2. Create a centralised specialised (and secure) training, retraining and updated training facility for employees new and old.
7. Shipping Phase.
   1. As with Point 3.1

Madfish said:

At the moment I'm wondering how our costs break down and where there are kinks or bottlenecks in our supply chains that could be eased in a way that could see reduced costs either letting us turn a higher over all profit per unit or reduce sales prices to further dominate choice markets for further expansion.

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By far the biggest price driver is Production. We can sell raw Production* for 260,000 credits per unit of Production. So far there has been no limitations stated on how much raw Production we can sell. This means that for any sale not generating at least 260,000 credits of profit per unit of Production involved is actually a loss. Sure that loss is more the opportunity cost of not producing something more valuable raw then a loss against the bill of materials but a loss is a loss.

*Which probably takes the form of a mixture of miscellaneous goods and just directly selling fabricator time to people interested in a one off batch production.

Looking over the various goods we have for sale this Production-Profit floor represents between 34% (3 Pilum Reload) and 84% (Flamer) of the minimum price with the average resting at around 57%. This is important because the actual maintenance cost of 1,666.67 credits per unit Production is tiny in comparison. Even looking at our total expenses (~16 Billion) compared to our total Production (6,960,000.00) only comes to 2,298.85 credits per unit Production.

So in theory we have a massive margin we could cut into if we wanted to sell goods at an effective loss. For example the LLPs we've been selling to the Alliance for 36.6 billion credits only actually cost (factoring in both fixed and variable costs) 19.9 billion credits with us profiting the 16.7 billion credit difference.

That said as long as we have the option of selling Production directly at 260,000cr and our products are valuable enough to earn more then that I don't see a reason to stop. Not unless we have specific non-financial goals. For example we'd probably sell things like Arcologies or other humanitarian supplies at around cost.

Speaking of Centurion sales, should we make few MP units and "Lend-Lease" it for someone like Anderson. Since spec-ops are mostly only one who would buy that expensive suit and also ones who ignore any non-compete clauses because they want the goods.

Would get the information out that we got upgrade for special forces.

Also, @tri2 , did you have any price changes to building Lab III in asteroid and also what are the prices for normal arcology because I think employees would want living space also in there. Need the data so I can edit my version of @UberJJK facilities build plan to replace the small station.

UberJJK said:

Yeah we got a better pay deal in the next update but it was still for exclusive rights to the Legionary.

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The Centurian isn't the Legionary, and while I wouldn't put a non-compete past them I'm absolutely certain it would be waived by the SA since we're at war and the more suits the better.

Like… shouldn't we be leasing production out anyways? We're at war, profits are nice but getting as many suits to the front as possible is the priority no?

I'd just approach HK again about leasing the new models and leverage our prominence for an even better deal then last time.

UberJJK said:

Snip

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I'm pretty sure that the Centurion models are in vastly superior to the Legionary considering not just the improvements but the fact that previous QMs expected us to replace our legionary forces with them. Which does make sense when you remember that the original model was the equivalent of primitive Power Armor by Revy standards due to being based on the prototype armor she made at 15. Imagine it's like comparing a combat vehicle from WW2 to a modern one.

While the SA may find the MP unattractive on a large scale due to wanting to outfit more of their numbers they'd likely fit us far better due to our lower numbers letting us afford to outfit our units to a higher degree due to smaller numbers.

As for the Elite model while yeah pretty expensive it's been pointed out that that was likely always the case due to all the features. I'd think they'd likely see it as worth due since beyond being given to one solder it lets that soldier do a lot including E-warfare and being able to operate like a tank, figher just, space ship, submarine along with all the other features. That's also on top of the combat bonuses from their sheer skill.

So I do think it would be practical to have at least half our guys have the MP model and around a dozen of our most trusted people the Elite. Still think that it would be sweet to gift, as in give for free, at least a dozen Elite models to the SA for their most elite soldiers. Both to let them decide it's worth the cost and just to have Motherfucking Anderson have a suit of his own.

Can we get that Armor comparison copy/pasted into an Informational post for future tech comparison updates?

Since I think the full feature set is a bit challanging to compare and contrast I've broken it down into something I think is easier.

Legionary V1.00:
Heavy Hardsuit power armor with arc reactor
Flight
Omnitool
Heavy kinetic shields
Wrist mount SMG
Omniblade
VI
? Weapon hardpoints
Space rated

Mass Produced Centurion:
Heavy Hardsuit power armor with arc reactor -> Heavy Hardsuit power armor with MKII arc reactor
Flight
Omnitool -> Wrist mounted omnitool
Heavy kinetic shields -> Multiple heavy shield layers
Wrist mounted SMG -> Multiple wrist mounted SMGs
Omniblade -> Wrist mounted omniblade
VI -> Best software with new programming language
? Weapon hardpoints -> 6 universal weapon hardpoints
Space rated -> Space and deep ocean rated

+Impact and temperature resistance gel
+Lesser strength enhancement
+Lesser speed enhancement
+Neural interface
+Kasa guardian angel shields
+Full NBC protection
+Modular armor pieces
+Heavy armor made of layers of metamaterials and super alloys, less layers than better models.

Elite Centurion:
Heavy Hardsuit power armor with MKII arc reactor
Flight
Wrist mounted omnitool -> Dual wrist mounted omnitools
Multiple heavy shield layers
Multiple wrist mounted SMGs -> Multiple wrist mounted miniguns
Wrist mounted omniblade -> Dual wrist mounted omniblades
Best software with new programming language
6 universal weapon hardpoints
Space and deep ocean rated

Impact and temperature resistance gel
Lesser strength enhancement -> Greater strength enhancement
Lesser speed enhancement -> Greater speed enhancement
Neural interface -> Neural interface/reaction speed enhancement
Kasa guardian angel shields
Full NBC protection
Modular armor pieces
Heavy armor made of few layers of metamaterials and super alloys -> Heavy armor made of many layers of metamaterials and super alloys

+VI support
+Automated medical suite
+Compact shoulder missile launchers
+E Warfare Suite
+Great Processing power.





Looking at that list considering we only actually have ~500 troops and most the suits under construction are for (hopeful) recruits I think it is probably worth going full hog with Elite Centurions. They have more layers of armor, automated medical suites, and better reactions/speed; all of which should make our troops notably more likely to come home. Sure it would mean eating into the Production set aside for the Systems Alliance Army but they are already getting +100,000 Legionaries this quarter anyway and ParSec has explicitly been chosen to be the point of the spear here. Exactly the position our new Elite Centurions would serve their best.

Any thoughts before I edit the vote?

So. I just reread everything and caught up.

i personally think giving parsec the elite model for everyone makes total sense.

give the regular model to our security forces, excepting maybe a sprinkle of elites for beads of security or what have you.

maybe see about making some vi, medical, and ewar modules for our hardpoint system.

We should keep the elite models for our people and only the boss model for our MC, the rest of the galaxy can make do with the basic model

DarknessSmiles said:

give the regular model to our security forces, excepting maybe a sprinkle of elites for beads of security or what have you.

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Never single out the officers in combat. Either the whole group gets it or nobody does.

I'd say mass production model from us to the SA instead of through a proxy, elite models for N-Program, special forces & ParSec. Ask the SA if they would be fine with Spectres making private commissions so long as nothing included is deemed to be of national security or the commission goes through some kind of review process.

KhazintheDark said:

Never single out the officers in combat. Either the whole group gets it or nobody does.

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Don't think that applies when the officers are inside the equivalent of man sized tanks that are way above the normal forces.

tri2 said:

Legionary V1.00

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It's more like a Legionary v1.5 (and definitely not a 1.00 model) as Hoyr has dubbed it. This description also looks like a downgrade from the current HK model according to old WOG:
That said, this is all mostly fluff anyway, so I'm fine with a retcon.

Red Bovine said:

Looking at the leading plan sthe biggest issue I have is that mind shields are getting so much focus considering that realistically they aren't going to be used because there is absolutely no reason for Revy to have our people wearing them all the time or even any amount of time. We have no IC idea about something like indoctrination so Revy doesn't have IC reason to be paranoid enough to even start deploying them.

On top of that just because the Batarian's are getting help with their tech doesn't mean that their tech has any indoctrination effect since in canon only specific Reaper tech had it and otherwise I imagine that we would have outright heard about people being indoctrinated since it's more than likely that there are people in Citadel space researching it. So until we have an IC reason it's honestly just a waste and unlikely to be relevant for a long while.

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The rationale for further Brain Shield research is to get it to the point that it's cheap and small enough that we can reasonably equip it on e.g. our suits. Especially on the suits worn by the spec ops that are likely the initial contact with Reaper tech. Even without a direct rationale for using brain shields, our suits and technology have that all-but-the-kitchen-sink feel that an extra brain shield module at minor expense shouldn't raise eyebrows (other than the obligatory "JFC you guys are paranoid").

Having mature Brain Shield tech also allows us to react much faster to the first detected indoctrination incident. When it comes to luck with Reaper tech, I want to stock odds in our favor as much as possible.

Rather we have Mordin work on things like the Gene Treatments for say the Turians since we are at war and it would not only be a boost to their forces but our relations as well.

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That all said, now really IS the appropriate time for Turian gene treatments, so I'm pretty conflicted on this vs further brain shield research.

UberJJK said:

So unless we are willing to either license the design out to HK or the Systems Alliance is willing to step in using their wartime powers (to either compell us to license the design or compell HK to suspend the exclusivity) we can't actually provide the Alliance with Centurions.

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I'm fine with licensing out the new design. We really do want to maximize the amount of suits out there in the wild. Profit is kind of an afterthought for us, and we have all sorts of other things we can devote our production to. Plus, this wards off the potential lawsuits and antitrust investigations and whatnot (and we still lack that legal assistance VI).

UberJJK said:

Looking at that list considering we only actually have ~500 troops and most the suits under construction are for (hopeful) recruits I think it is probably worth going full hog with Elite Centurions. They have more layers of armor, automated medical suites, and better reactions/speed; all of which should make our troops notably more likely to come home. Sure it would mean eating into the Production set aside for the Systems Alliance Army but they are already getting +100,000 Legionaries this quarter anyway and ParSec has explicitly been chosen to be the point of the spear here. Exactly the position our new Elite Centurions would serve their best.

Any thoughts before I edit the vote?

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I'm in favor of equipping our troops leading the charge with the best equipment.

Red Bovine said:

Don't think that applies when the officers are inside the equivalent of man sized tanks that are way above the normal forces.

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"Man sized tanks" that are still vulnerable against laser weaponry. Since we can spare the production to outfit all of PI, I'd rather not take the risk, however small it is that another super-mech/Collector appears on the battlefield.

lbmaian said:

The rationale for further Brain Shield research is to get it to the point that it's cheap and small enough that we can reasonably equip it on e.g. our suits. Especially on the all-but-kitchen-sink suits worn by the spec ops that are likely the initial contact with Reaper tech. Even without a direct rationale for using brain shields, our suits and technology have that all-but-the-kitchen-sink feel that an extra brain shield module at minor expense shouldn't raise eyebrows (other than the obligatory "JFC you guys are paranoid").

Having mature Brain Shield tech also allows us to react much faster to the first detected indoctrination incident. When it comes to luck with Reaper tech, I want to stock odds in our favor as much as possible.

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That still doesn't make any sense. Why the fuck would someone needlessly spend a ton of money and resources on something for no real reason in story? Indoctrination or anything of that level has not even been discovered.

This is the exact reason why I freaking hate meta gaming so much. It blatantly influences people to act in a way that really doesn't make sense in story. In fact Tri2 outright said that no matter what Revy isn't going to be adding Brain Shields to her stuff automatically because no matter what justification players try to use it just wouldn't make sense for Revy to do so. And I really hope that they don't budge on that because otherwise that kind of thing just encourages even more blatant meta gaming.

And for Fs sake it's repeatedly been pointed out that indoctrination tech isn't likely that big a threat to PI and our organization personally since we are unlikely to be the ones to not only run across it but actually spend a significant time around such tech unless we say specifically research it. Otherwise the most realistic outcome is that some other organization gets a few of their peoples heads fucked up which would be enough IC reason to have them ask someone like Revy about it. Anything else is just blatant meta cheating using meta knowledge which can seriously suck the fun out of quests.

Sylvire said:

Also, @tri2 , did you have any price changes to building Lab III in asteroid and also what are the prices for normal arcology because I think employees would want living space also in there. Need the data so I can edit my version of @UberJJK facilities build plan to replace the small station.

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no change

Proposed Arcology Building
Arcology, Building Size 1
Cost: $2.5 billion, 100 Production, and a quarter (built by PI and their industries) OR $1 billion and 4 quarters (built by others), Upkeep: N/A, paid off via taxes
Fits 10 million people, 100 stories tall. No armor, weapons, or defenses besides what is needed to be structurally sound and survive local environmental hazards.
Purely for civilian living/lifestyle.

Red Bovine said:

That still doesn't make any sense. Why the fuck would someone needlessly spend a ton of money and resources on something for no real reason in story? Indoctrination or anything of that level has not even been discovered.

This is the exact reason why I freaking hate meta gaming so much. It blatantly influences people to act in a way that really doesn't make sense in story. In fact Tri2 outright said that no matter what Revy isn't going to be adding Brain Shields to her stuff automatically because no matter what justification players try to use it just wouldn't make sense for Revy to do so. And I really hope that they don't budge on that because otherwise that kind of thing just encourages even more blatant meta gaming.

And for Fs sake it's repeatedly been pointed out that indoctrination tech isn't likely that big a threat to PI and our organization personally since we are unlikely to be the ones to not only run across it but actually spend a significant time around such tech unless we say specifically research it. Otherwise the most realistic outcome is that some other organization gets a few of their peoples heads fucked up which would be enough IC reason to have them ask someone like Revy about it. Anything else is just blatant meta cheating using meta knowledge which can seriously suck the fun out of quests.

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I mean, yeah it's metagaming... but we've been metagaming (read: preparing) for the Reapers this whole quest. We had NO in-game reason to research brain shields in the first place, yet we still did it, partly because we were preparing to research Batarian cryptography and we feared Reaper tech. And it's part of the reason (if not the main reason) we were dead set on researching blackboxing to the max so early in the quest. Sure, it sucks if we metagame too much, but I don't consider further brain shield research as anything new there, let alone excessive.

Again, we want brain shields (any anti-Reaper tech really) to be as cheap and integrable as possible so that the tech can be spread as widely as possible. Not just for Paragon Industries, but for the whole galaxy.

tri2 said:

Fits 10 million people, 100 stories tall.

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How wide are you planning this on being? Because that is 100k (or you know a city) per floor. Generally most designs for Arcologies I've seen, like the one I have in the works, are in the town range (single to tens of thousands).