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Panopticon: A Game of Posthumans, Perniciousness, Paranoia, Politics, and Plasmaguns

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Side note: based on @EarthScorpion's interpretation (which yep, looks spot-on to me) O'Shea and Astrea make a pretty solid combo too.

O'Shea pulls us in the direction of flirting with working tradition-side. Astrea pulls towards ItX in general. Both together helps double down in the idea of net presence. It means that, in addition to everything else, Camlann starts to function as a liason between ItX and the Trads - and Kessler's experience in the Demise helps push that as well.
 
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[X] HITMark VII Test Unit 02 'Astrea'-The Ideal

[X] Elias Richter-The Troubleshooter

Because I enjoy the idea of cutting-edge AI and old-fashioned crusader forced to work together to bring mayhem and comedy of misunderstanding to the game:D
 
[x]Alex O'Shea-The Cyberspace Cowboy
[x] Elias Richter-The Troubleshooter

What are Camlann? They're the people who will hunt down the Abomination that's still on Earth and other things like it. They will think outside the TU box and and deal with the more reasonable Traditions mages in order find Threat Null targets and kill them in the face.
 
noliar said:
What are Camlann? They're the people who will hunt down the Abomination that's still on Earth and other things like it. They will think outside the TU box and and deal with the more reasonable Traditions mages in order find Threat Null targets and kill them in the face.
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Alternately, they're the people who break whatever rules the Union sets for a "greater good" they define, who operate in the shadows with no oversight, and view themselves as being above the regulations that other, "lesser" people set on themselves.

The failure state is just as notable as the nominal operational state, and both those choices lean heavily towards the "rules are for other people" side.

That's what the SPD thought, wasn't it?
 
EarthScorpion said:
Alternately, they're the people who break whatever rules the Union sets for a "greater good" they define, who operate in the shadows with no oversight, and view themselves as being above the regulations that other, "lesser" people set on themselves.

The failure state is just as notable as the nominal operational state, and both those choices lean heavily towards the "rules are for other people" side.

That's what the SPD thought, wasn't it?
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We're making them officers but they aren't at the top of the heirarchy. Whoever we choose they answer to their superiors in Camlann who answer to Ragnarok command. There are good people whose job it is to provide that oversight, keep them on task and within some moral constraints - they'll have to work for a living with my picks to be sure but it will be obvious from the beginning that they need to.
 
noliar said:
We're making them officers but they aren't at the top of the heirarchy. Whoever we choose they answer to their superiors in Camlann who answer to Ragnarok command. There are good people whose job it is to provide that oversight, keep them on task and within some moral constraints - they'll have to work for a living with my picks to be sure but it will be obvious from the beginning that they need to.
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Who you hire says a lot about an organisation and what it becomes. And underestimating the capacity of a mage to shape their own - ah ha - "reality" never ends well. Assuming a cowboy hacker and a multi-centential veteran of wetworks and black ops will neatly fall into line is what is technically known as hubris.

If someone picked one of the more "fuck the rules" and balanced it out with a more conventional pick, then I could buy your arguments. But going for both the "rogues" with a justification of "nah, it'll be fine" is much less solid. Because not least, it says that CAMLANN is very tolerant of rogue behaviour because that's who it chooses to put in charge of part of it.

It's just like Jamelia's amalgam. She populated it with rule-breakers and ideologically dodgy people, and as a result it turned into an amalgam that's basically done nothing except go outside the rules and bend regulations - and only the fact that they're player characters who've been guided by the voters has stopped it going wrong. That and some very lucky rolls. CAMLANN won't have the same PC protection.
 
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I agree that Camlann doesnt need to be an outgoing organisation. Its the tip of the spear of the Union, and bridge build to insure that the Union will put more efforts into building itself back together in a way that is real and sincere, since spear heads are useless without the shaft that give it its range.

Camlann doesnt need to be the Union's bridge to the Traditions or the past of the Union. The Void Engineers and Project Sunburst already do the former and as Sunburst grow in power it will inevitably become a strong point of contact alongside the Nephandi Hunters. The new heads of the NWO are already digging into the past of the Union and deciding what to keep and what do discard, and ultimately they are probably the best suited for that.

All in all, the memes aside, I think that the Princess Combo Votes actually works out fairly great for Camlaan and the future of the Union.

It tangles the organisation more deeply into the strings and webs of the Union, making it something that can be influenced yes, but also something that can be approached. We have already seen what happens to Union Organisations who decide to do their own thing and cut themselves away from those social webs for the Greater Good. Panopticon, Vigilance and the SPD have all been more trouble than they were worth. And even the VEs, almost caused a civil war that would have doomed their efforts to defend the Earth.

Camlaan doesnt need to be the cowboy cops, or the edgy operatives, or the bloody hands of the Union and Command. It should just be a force of professional doing their jobs, and fully integrated into the greater whole of the Union and thus fully accountable for the consequences their actions, both the good and the bad.
 
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noliar said:
We're making them officers but they aren't at the top of the heirarchy. Whoever we choose they answer to their superiors in Camlann who answer to Ragnarok command. There are good people whose job it is to provide that oversight, keep them on task and within some moral constraints - they'll have to work for a living with my picks to be sure but it will be obvious from the beginning that they need to.
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Elias Richter specifically calls out that he might be looking to take over, and would have a reasonable chance of succeeding. He's also amazingly good at getting things done (like, say, killing people) under the noses of the folks who are supposed to prevent him from doing those things, even when opposed by entire organizations of mages. O'Shea has VA roots, has enormous amounts of raw cyberwarfare talent and occasionally has people coming after him personally on the net to take him down (unsuccessfully). He's also pretty darned good at getting things done under the noses of those that might oppose him. As another point of similarity, he too has a fair bit of personal investment in the mission, and a limited degree to which outsiders can influence him.

Now, it's true. If you stick the two of them together on a team and you get them working together, they will be Very Good Indeed at hunting down Threat Null things and killing them in the face. You're not wrong... but, yeah, they'll also likely be a bit loose cannon about it all.
 
firestorm440 said:
Uh, guys? Guys? Hold up.



Am I the only one who thinks it's significant that "Agent" was written with a capital A? The way the Agency is written? Guys?
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I think it was a title for NWO field personnel interchangeable with Operative before the Void Adaptees gave it a bad name...? I'd like to think that Kessler and Clarent among others who have tangled with Threat Null before would have done their due diligence and made sure he wasn't a EDE or meat puppet thereof.

... On the other hand, there was that time a VE squad, supposedly the anti-TN specialists, got outfoxed by Agent Tinker. :V
EarthScorpion said:
She'll likely produce a better disciplined, Shock Corps integrated force, although that might result in a bit less funding as it'll reduce its USP.
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USP? Unique selling proposition - Wikipedia ?
 
EarthScorpion said:
[ ]Alex O'Shea-The Cyberspace Cowboy

O'shea's an old fashioned VA cowboy who's kept VA contacts, and therefore a Camlann that's kept him around is one that's much more open to VA contacts - which leads to Traditionalist contacts in general. It'd be a Technocratic wing that's willing to talk with the Traditions. And also probably have more of a Digital Web focus. The cost of this is that it might make Camlann less of a good fit for the Union and result in it being locked out a bit more from hardware and tools and the like because it's... ahem, "suspect".
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I'm personally in favor of the Technocracy and Traditions having closer ties. I don't expect them to be bosom companions (I believe ES has said in the past that the natural state of mages are rest was 'bickering'?) but I imagine the more room for cross-pollination there is the less likely we're going to see extremists rising to positions of prominence among either group.

That said, Camlann's job isn't to make friends, it's to kick down doors and stomp troublemakers, isn't it?
 
Changing my mind. I think a force focused on the cyberspace, and AI in general is pretty interesting.

[X] HITMark VII Test Unit 02 'Astrea'-The Ideal
[X]Alex O'Shea-The Cyberspace Cowboy
 
Slamu said:
I'm personally in favor of the Technocracy and Traditions having closer ties. I don't expect them to be bosom companions (I believe ES has said in the past that the natural state of mages are rest was 'bickering'?) but I imagine the more room for cross-pollination there is the less likely we're going to see extremists rising to positions of prominence among either group.

That said, Camlann's job isn't to make friends, it's to kick down doors and stomp troublemakers, isn't it?
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That's going to be a big part of the job, yeah, but some of the details (things like which troublemakers, how we find them, how often the stomping is a method vs the primary objective, and certain details of stomping technique) are still at least somewhat fluid.

Personally, I don't mind the idea that we might start getting a significant number of our targets from desperate Trad mages who have nowhere else to turn, and who know that we have a history of stomping whatever it is that happens to be hunting them. That's the sort of thing that can build up goodwill pretty quickly. I'm not campaigning for it or anything, but it's a kind of cool thought.
 
Alex and Elias won't stop being loose cannons if they're not recruited, Camlann at least has a hope of tying them down and pointing them the right way. Elias in particular I want to see in a knives out, non-ascension war role.

At the same time, it's worth exposing our shock corps rank and file to mages who differ from the orthodox TU paradigm in positions of respect.

In short, for the mission I want Camlann doing, those two are worth the extra work and risk.
 
noliar said:
Alex and Elias won't stop being loose cannons if they're not recruited, Camlann at least has a hope of tying them down and pointing them the right way. Elias in particular I want to see in a knives out, non-ascension war role.

At the same time, it's worth exposing our shock corps rank and file to mages who differ from the orthodox TU paradigm in positions of respect.

In short, for the mission I want Camlann doing, those two are worth the extra work and risk.
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I don't think any argument along the lines of tying a character down works unless you pair them up with someone who can actually tie them down. The Troubleshooter is unlikely to be boundable by any other character, for example.
 
tzar1990 said:
So, on one hand, he's a blood-soaked relic of the old Technocracy, and his opposition to Control comes from the fact that they're no longer human rather than from possessing ideals like "Maybe non-mages should get self-determination" or "We should try NOT murdering everyone who fails to share our ideals"

On the other hand, mm god yes baby thats some good fuckin' stats right there. mm yeah show me them spheres, you double master you.
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Technically the Technocracy are the backers and influencers of all masses government. Murder is illegal killing. Given that he was lawfully ordered or authorized to kill everyone he targeted he's not a murderer at all.

EarthScorpion said:
Who you hire says a lot about an organisation and what it becomes. And underestimating the capacity of a mage to shape their own - ah ha - "reality" never ends well. Assuming a cowboy hacker and a multi-centential veteran of wetworks and black ops will neatly fall into line is what is technically known as hubris.

If someone picked one of the more "fuck the rules" and balanced it out with a more conventional pick, then I could buy your arguments. But going for both the "rogues" with a justification of "nah, it'll be fine" is much less solid. Because not least, it says that CAMLANN is very tolerant of rogue behaviour because that's who it chooses to put in charge of part of it.

It's just like Jamelia's amalgam. She populated it with rule-breakers and ideologically dodgy people, and as a result it turned into an amalgam that's basically done nothing except go outside the rules and bend regulations - and only the fact that they're player characters who've been guided by the voters has stopped it going wrong. That and some very lucky rolls. CAMLANN won't have the same PC protection.
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But technically speaking, Richter isn't rogue. The human Control gave him his last set of orders and he's just been following them. Okay so those orders were basically "prevent Code: Ragnarok situation and ensure survival of Technocratic Union and human race" back in 1999 and they were never rescinded, giving him basically unlimited emergency powers, but still counts!
 
noliar said:
[x]Alex O'Shea-The Cyberspace Cowboy
[x] Elias Richter-The Troubleshooter

What are Camlann? They're the people who will hunt down the Abomination that's still on Earth and other things like it. They will think outside the TU box and and deal with the more reasonable Traditions mages in order find Threat Null targets and kill them in the face.
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Although this is certainly an entertaining combination, I think people should be aware that there are possible human resources concerns from putting a wet works assassin who directly acted for Control and someone with a distinct anti-authoritarian streak on the same team. I mean, there's definitely ways to resolve these sorts of tensions but it's something people should consider. And arguing that these tensions can be mitigated in a certain way probably won't negatively impact the chance of your vote winning...
 
[x] HITMark VII Test Unit 02 'Astrea'-The Ideal
[x] Agent Alya al-Saud-The Dilettante

So you're telling me i don't even have to pick one waifu but can do both? I am amazed sir.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
Although this is certainly an entertaining combination, I think people should be aware that there are possible human resources concerns from putting a wet works assassin who directly acted for Control and someone with a distinct anti-authoritarian streak on the same team. I mean, there's definitely ways to resolve these sorts of tensions but it's something people should consider. And arguing that these tensions can be mitigated in a certain way probably won't negatively impact the chance of your vote winning...
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To be fair, my mitigation strategies are just talk to them a lot, keep an eye on them and keep them busy.

Elias has happily been a man under orders for 350 years, he can cope with changing command structures and missions. If he's working in a hierarchy under the open leadership of a fallible Command rather than being the hidden knife of the all powerful masters of the Technocracy, he's still protecting humanity by killing monsters in the face. He can be persuaded of this though it will bear repetition. It may be worth arranging for him to chat with Jamelia who has grown out of being Control's hidden knife herself.

Alex came to us. Camlann puts him in a position to protect his friends old and new but to keep his shiny new job with its resources and Shock Corp hitters he has to buy into the program. He has to learn the acceptable limits to his maverickery and keep within them. It's not like he won't have leeway. He can be persuaded of this though it will bear repetition. It may be worth arranging for him to chat with Donald and Elsa who have made the switch from Traditions to Technocracy by choce themselves.
 
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